A-TRAC vs. Lockers

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Agteros
LR 4WD Full Lockers
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Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:35 pm

I have posed this question on the 4x4 Community Forum as well.

Am I correct in saying that having traction control in low-range (A-TRAC) as on our FJ's is actually better than having a locker front and rear?

My reasoning: a locker front and rear is good if you are travelling in a straight line BUT when you go sideways or have to turn wheels you are "binding up" the drive train and then A-TRAC come into its own since you get power where you need it and your driveability is unaffected??

If I am correct why would you then need lockers if you have A-TRAC?
2012 FJ Sport Cruiser
1986 Hilux DC 4x4

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JEEPIE
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Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:42 pm

kom kom kom slim mense
die man wag vir antwoorde
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if you want to change this to recovered , first recover me - and have a relevant picture / foto to prove it !
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ChrisF
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Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:59 pm

Hugo ek het op n Suzuki opleidings dag gesien wat die nuwe "elektroniese beheer" stelsels kan vermag !

INDRUKWEKKEND !


maar dan weet ek ook van mense wat met n Honda CRV sports gehad het in sand - ALBEI bande het gelyk gespin in die sand, toe sit die computer NIKS krag na die ander wiele nie ....

so wanneer die electronics WERK is dit puik, maar as hy deurmekaar raak .... en dan naturrlik al die ekstra electrincs wat kan sports maak wanneer jy te veel deur water ry.



dit IS die toekoms, en dit werk, maar aai .... mens hou maar van die ou blou draad modelle .... :)

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Agteros
LR 4WD Full Lockers
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Real Name: Hugo Janse van Rensburg

Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:04 pm

Ja Chris - dis seker maar hoekom hulle dan ook nog steeds 'n agter locker op die FJ gesit het - vir die dag as die electronics deurmekaar raak :)
2012 FJ Sport Cruiser
1986 Hilux DC 4x4

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ChrisF
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Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:20 pm

die ander ding van die electronics - dit WAG vir die slip, DAN moet jy bietjie vet gee om vir die computer te se jy wil ry, DAN skop die "wizardy" in jy beweeg weer vorentoe - intussen verloor jy wel momentum.

met n fisiese diff lock kan jy daai momentum behou ...

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ThysdJ
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Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:35 pm

Electronic systems are re-active. They only come into play once wheel spin is detected. In extreme cases it could be too late. A locker is pro-active, always ready..

I have also seen Disco's and Touaregs and even Porsche Cayennes with traction control struggle to get enough momentum together to get up a relatively low dune. This is due to the ruts and undulations in the sand causing wheel-slip, and the traction control kicking in to "brake" the wheels.

Traction control is fantastic for wet road driving, gravel roads and even light off-road work where momentum is not really required. Diff-locks is perfect for more hard core offroading. In my opinion it is a matter of horses for courses, and the more road-biased our 4x4's become the more the electronics will become part of it.
Thys de Jager
CEO and Refreshments Manager at Team Offroad.

2010 Hilux 3.0 D4D D/C 4x4 with GOMAD "Brood" Canopy. Tripod.
1997 Jeep Wrangler TJ 4.0 Sport. The original SFA. AGA... Gooi kole
email: thys@teamoffroad.co.za

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smokintyres
LR 4WD Rear Locker
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Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:52 pm

I agree with Thys; traction control is nice for wet roads, perhaps even gravel, basically anything where you would be travelling at moderate to high speeds on lose surface. But as soon as you don't have momentum on your side; diff-lock is the answer. If you have 4 minutes to spare, have a look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooQRxlChvMw Unfortunately it's Subaru based :blushing:

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JEEPIE
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Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:01 pm

my views and from what i have seen
traction control is nice , works
but in the bush too much electronics doesnt work
diff lock migt be old , but its proven itself over and over even on ifs
yes you might have some binding , but is that so bad
i would rather have something simple that works
OFFICIAL HILUX 4x4 RECOVERY VEHICLE

if you want to change this to recovered , first recover me - and have a relevant picture / foto to prove it !
ADVANCED 4x4 DRIVER COURSES DONE : US 254135 / US 254154
(STILL AWAITING SO-CALLED TETA CERTIFICATION VIA THE SERVICE PROVIDER AFRICAN OFF-ROAD ACADEMY - WHAT A JOKE)

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Agteros
LR 4WD Full Lockers
LR 4WD Full Lockers
Posts: 629
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:09 pm
Town: Pretoria
Vehicle: Toyota Hilux 2200 4x4 DC
Real Name: Hugo Janse van Rensburg

Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:31 pm

smokintyres wrote:I agree with Thys; traction control is nice for wet roads, perhaps even gravel, basically anything where you would be travelling at moderate to high speeds on lose surface. But as soon as you don't have momentum on your side; diff-lock is the answer. If you have 4 minutes to spare, have a look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooQRxlChvMw Unfortunately it's Subaru based :blushing:
I took the time to watch - very very interesting video. Did not think that symmetrical/asymmetrical drivetrain layouts would make such a difference!
2012 FJ Sport Cruiser
1986 Hilux DC 4x4

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smokintyres
LR 4WD Rear Locker
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Real Name: Gernot

Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:36 pm

I have to apologize, the video did not answer your actual question. But it does show the difference between the symmetrical drive layout used by Subaru and the asymmetrical layout used by most other manufacturers. In both cases, the power is transferred to the wheel with the most grip electronically.
With a diff-lock, the wheels (both rear or front or even all 4 wheels) are spinning at the same speed and are therefore transferring the same amount of torque to the ground, whether slipping or not. I ment to post this link, which is twice as long, but it is a fair test on the different drive systems rather than cars and also includes limited slip differential: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2wkW05Pc6c

As Jeepie mentioned, all electronic gadgets can easily leave you stranded and the old-fashioned pneumatically operated diff-lock may be the most reliable for sticky situations. At the end of the day it really depends what kind of terrain you are anticipating to tackle on a regular basis.

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