Solar installation Advice needed

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Solar installation Advice needed

Post by george »

I got all my goodies now it is time to get to the installation.Just a few question.

I see a lot of people just mounting it in the open on top of there bakkies.I was thinking of making a 12mm plywood box(with stand) to protect it while driving.Does anybody have a better idea?

Cables-According to the Stecca manual one should use 10mm² cable. I was planning to use the red and black auto flex cable that I think is 4mm² that most shops use on the panels.Will this be OK.IIRC 10mm² is quite a thick cable.

The Stecca manual talks about on inline fuse to the battery.Do you think it is necessary-probably is.

IIRC it was said that you should not run your load from the controller but rather the battery.Is this still relevant

im planning to add another battery paralleled in the system.Will the controller handle both batteries or should i do one at a time.

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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by FIRSTGEER »

Hi George.I think it is a good idea to mount the solar panels in a box of either wood or aluminium to protect it against branches etc. I think the cable size is much too big.I would say 1,0 mm cable is more than ample as you are only recharging your batteries and the s panel does not put out that amount of power. What is the wattage of your panel ?
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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by george »

FIRSTGEER wrote:Hi George.I think it is a good idea to mount the solar panels in a box of either wood or aluminium to protect it against branches etc. I think the cable size is much too big.I would say 1,0 mm cable is more than ample as you are only recharging your batteries and the s panel does not put out that amount of power. What is the wattage of your panel ?
Thanks Tony.I got a 85watt panel
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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by Royco »

Congrats, George :thumbup:
When I bought my kit, 4mm2 was supplied.
I was thinking of just getting a canvas cover, but reading Tony's post - this may not be enough...

It was suggested that I take the current from the controller, but I couldn't get it to work so lekker. I have now connected everything directly to the battery :thumbup:

I am also interested in your project, please keep us informed (and pics!!)
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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by george »

Thanks Roy.

I just opened the box at the back of the panel.i see there is 4 connectors.
I am assuming that the three that is connected with the "resistors" is the + and the second one from the left is the -
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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by Niel »

Ek gebruik 2.5 mm draad en sover werk hy 100 - ek dink dit kan 20 amp vat op 2.5 mm draad
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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by Hilux 1 »

dis korrek, 2,5mm2 draad kan 20Ampere hanteer.
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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by SuidWes »

I see a lot of people just mounting it in the open on top of there bakkies.I was thinking of making a 12mm plywood box(with stand) to protect it while driving.Does anybody have a better idea?
Got mine mounted on the roofrack without any protection and it is still in one piece, it even survived some hail - Much stronger than it looks :thumbup:
The Stecca manual talks about on inline fuse to the battery.Do you think it is necessary-probably is.
Fuse is a good idea.
IIRC it was said that you should not run your load from the controller but rather the battery.Is this still relevant
For some reason it does seem to work better from the battery - Only other advantage of connecting it to the controller is the low voltage protection that the Engel does not have.

NB: When connecting everything to the controller remember to connect the battery first and then the panel. It is also best to keep the panel covered whilst doing the physical connections.
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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by george »

Dankie Jaco :thumbup:

is dit reg as ek se dat die 3x connectors die + is en die kleiner een die - ?
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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by ChrisF »

Jip, always good to protect the panel - BUT, DO NOT drill into the solar panel, be very carefull of a drill "slipping" through the aluminium and damaging the actual solar film !!

wire thickness - 2,5mm can cary 20A, but with a reasonable voltage drop ... and next thing the guys go overboard. 4mm should realy be more than enough

fuses - always a good idea, especially if there is any chance of the wires shorting out on any metal.


I bought a MPPT regulator earlier today - it has two outputs. One directly to the battery and another to a load. Personally I will be connecting it to the battery. (with a normal regulator your 80W panel will only deliver about 60 to 65W to the battery) These regulators go for just ander 1k.


IF you go for that extra battery - make sure BOTH are the same.




I will be getting some wire tomorrow morning and doing the same this weekend, except that I wont be bolting the solar plate to the bakkie as I opted for the fold up type.
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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by SuidWes »

is dit reg as ek se dat die 3x connectors die + is en die kleiner een die - ?
Dis hoe ek dit het 0+ pos and 6- Neg
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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by george »

SuidWes wrote:
is dit reg as ek se dat die 3x connectors die + is en die kleiner een die - ?
Dis hoe ek dit het 0+ pos and 6- Neg
Ok ek sien.Al wat my pla is dit lyk of 1-6 kontak maak deur daai resistor.
MAW 'n mens gebruik net 1 vir + en 6 vir -
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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by SuidWes »

Yip, my paneel deur 'n LC Group buy gedoen - Sien ook: http://www.landcruiserclub.co.za/cms/in ... buy#639179" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Onthou dit het vir my ook snaaks gelyk maar dit werk :)
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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by SuidWes »

Jy kan dit altyd toets met 'n multimeter net om seker te maak...
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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by george »

SuidWes wrote:Jy kan dit altyd toets met 'n multimeter net om seker te maak...
Dankie gaan so maak.Het ook gou met Setsolar gepraat en hulle het bevestig jy gebruik net 0 en 6.
Amper blaas ek my panel :blushing:
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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by louis fourie »

SuidWes wrote:
is dit reg as ek se dat die 3x connectors die + is en die kleiner een die - ?
Dis hoe ek dit het 0+ pos and 6- Neg
Die resistor het 'n silwer ringetjie op. Dit is die positiewe kant van die resistor en die paneel. Jy kan tussen 6 (-ve) en 2(+ve) ook koppel, maar dit sal net die helfte van jou paneel se kapasisteit vir jou gee. Daar is normaalweg 2 bane op die son paneel. Soos ek verstaan keer die resistors dat daar stroom tussen die twee bane vloei as daar bv skadu op die een kant van die paneel val. m.a.w. die twee bane kry nie presies die selfde hoeveelheid sonlig nie.

Hoe dikker die kabel hoe minder verlies kry 'n mens. Ek het 4mm gebruik, en op 30m kry ek 20V en so 9A uit 2X80W panele - Communica is die goedkoopste, maar het nie stock gehad toe ek wou koop nie. Zetty in Pretoria was na Communica die goedkoopste.

Ek is nie regtig so slim nie, het so 2 weke terug my sonpanele by Buffalo Gorge gaan toets. Die inligting hierbo is met komplimente geleen :mrgreen: by my skoonpa.

Ek het my sonpanele geskarnier en dit kom binne in my karavaan. Lyk so:
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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by george »

Dankie Louis.lekker setup van jou.Wat se controller gebruik jy met die 2 panele?
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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by louis fourie »

george wrote:Dankie Louis.lekker setup van jou.Wat se controller gebruik jy met die 2 panele?

George

Ek het 'n 30A controller. Watse maak dit is, kan ek jou nie sê nie. Koop die goed by 'n vriend van my wat uit maak van die tipe goed. Hy het 'n special gehad so rukkie terug - R16/W betaal vir TUV gesertifiseerde panele.
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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by ChrisF »

George I also completed my installation this weekend -

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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by george »

OK so I finished installing everything and the testing can commence :dance1:
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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by SuidWes »

George, daai panel staan te regop:) Pasop ook dat hy nie omwaai nie....
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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by george »

SuidWes wrote:George, daai panel staan te regop:) Pasop ook dat hy nie omwaai nie....
Moetie worry nie,Hy is aan die muur vas met skroewe.

Hy is nie op die oomblik in 'n ideale posiese of plek nie.Daar is maar net so 'n paar uur se direk sonlig. :thumbdown: So ek verwag nie te veel nie
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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by ChrisF »

George nou MOET jy vir n "trippie" gaan - mens "moet" mos darem die paneel behoorlik toes .... :)
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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by george »

just a quick update.I connected my system on Sunday and the batteries are still showing green today.
I do not really manage my panel so it is not getting the optimal sun it needs,but so far so good :cooldude:
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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by ChrisF »

George on the other forum a gent did a reasonably scientific experiment - he concluded that a 60W panel was enough the keep his battery charged when using a 50 liter fridge.

Personally we have done a couple of 11 day trips - the driving was enough in each case to keep the battery charged (using alternator only, no dc-dc unit).

For our upcoming trip I should have access to power 2out of every 3 nights - so DONT think I will need the solar at all. BUT having it means that I am not waorried about that odd occasion where we wont be driving a lot and wont access to 220V. :)


CLEARLY this reasoning dont hold water for the gents going to PARK for a week or two at a place with zero power.


so different strokes for different folks.
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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by george »

Just an update.I finished my box for the panel.I have made the lid to double up as a support.i also added some rope to keep it tied down with some tent pegs
sp1.JPG
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My QA inspector was testing the shady area
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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by Royco »

Nice George! :applaud:
I think I may just borrow your plans... :goodjob:
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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by JJBotes »

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
:thumbup:
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Post by Hannes Meyer »

om maksimum krag uit sonpaneel te trek moet son strale so na as moontlik aan 90 grade op sonpaneel val, so jou sonpaneel le amper plat in sentraal Namibia sit ons hul op 35 - 45 grade. Dit verskil van plek tot plek die grade.Lees bietjie op http://www.yourgreendream.com/diy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; nogal intresante inligting
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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by george »

Hannes Meyer wrote:om maksimum krag uit sonpaneel te trek moet son strale so na as moontlik aan 90 grade op sonpaneel val, so jou sonpaneel le amper plat in sentraal Namibia sit ons hul op 35 - 45 grade. Dit verskil van plek tot plek die grade.Lees bietjie op http://www.yourgreendream.com/diy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; nogal intresante inligting
thanks Hannes
here is also a calculator on this page
http://solarelectricityhandbook.com/sol ... lator.html
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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by wesselsj »

Ek het vir my twee aluminium rame wat inmekaar pas van 32mm x 2mm angle gemaak. Die een raam is net groot genoeg om die solar paneel te vat. Hierdie raam het ek dan aan die dakrak vasgebout en die paneel daarin gesit. Dan het ek die tweede raam bo oor gesit en dit met twee knippies vasgemaak. So bly die paneel stewig in sy raak vasgemaak. Daar is geen manier hoe die paneel nou van die dak kan afkom nie. Terselfdertyd kan ek my battery laai terwyl ek ry. Wanneer ek by die kamp kom, haal ek die boonste raam af, haal die sonpaneel af en stel dit op teen 'n hoek. Hierdie sisteem werk uitstekend.
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So lyk die paneel op die dak - 2
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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by Niel »

Daai sal lekker werk en die angle frame versterk ook die alu frame van die paneel
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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by wesselsj »

Ja Niël, nou moet ek plan maak om twee panele op die dak te kry. Maar ek dink ek gaan net een gebruik terwyl ons ry.
Aangeheg is 'n excel dokument met baie inligting insluitende die hoeke waarteen die sonpanele geplaas moet word om optimaal te werk.
Ek probeer onm die excel dokument in te sit, maar kry dit nie reg nie. Help asseblief :think:
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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by Willem01 »

mmmmm hierie is n baie interresante draad moet hom fyn dophou
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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by george »

wesselsj wrote:Ja Niël, nou moet ek plan maak om twee panele op die dak te kry. Maar ek dink ek gaan net een gebruik terwyl ons ry.
Aangeheg is 'n excel dokument met baie inligting insluitende die hoeke waarteen die sonpanele geplaas moet word om optimaal te werk.
Ek probeer onm die excel dokument in te sit, maar kry dit nie reg nie. Help asseblief :think:
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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by Maplotter »

If I may, I would like to share some general solar and battery guidelines that I have learned along the way.

You can charge two batteries in paralell no problem. You should however isolate them when not in use, and of course, the isolation should also be set up when parked so that you run off one battery and leave the other fully charged for your vehicle to start the next day.

Now, I have had problems with a paralell battery while driving. I had the two batteries permanently coupled in paralell becuase I needed the extra woema for extended cranking. But despite the fact that both batteries were charged and discharged in exactly the same duty cycle, The one battery went bad before the other and it went un noticed till the vehicle died and I opened the bonnet to find a molten mess of slag that was once a battery.

From that point I used dual amp meters, one on each battery so that I could pick up an issue far earlier. I also connected a relay to be activated by the ignition swithc and only when the ignition was on did the relay kick in and connect the two batteries together.

Next up is the solar configuration.

It is better to connect 2 batteries to your solar panel. Here is why.

A solar panel requires 10+ hours to fully charge. But you only get 6 to 8 hours of effective charge from the sun and down to 5 hours in winter.

This means that you are only getting half a charge during the day. So, you are continually cycling your battery from half to empty. With two, you charge both during the day, but you only use alternating batteries each night. This means that each battery gets a full 10+ hour charge over 2 days then a 1 night discharge cycle. Then it charges for 2 days again.

Now, it does not mean that you can get more out than you put in, but it does mean that you are running your batteries from full to half, rather than half to empty. This means that your battery will last longer. Becuase you do need two days of charge after each discharge cycle if you are only running panels.

I use two batteries which I charge in paralell during the day and use on an alternating basis each night.

That resistor with the slver streep is a diode whose function is to prevent reverse flow of current or to suppress switching spikes. A diode connectd with the stripe towards the battery positive will prevent any surge from exceeding the battery level. The other way around will prevent any current flow from going into a battery, this preventing the discharged battery from charging itself off a charged battery, thus reducing the amount of available charge from the full battery, when you would in fact only want to recharge both off the sun tomorrow, and not the one out of the other through the night. Now, granted I am making afew assumptions here, that is generally how they are used, but if you post a diagram I will tell you exactly what it is doing.

I doubt if the diode is there to ensure a one way current flow into or out of the battery and it looks like a 1 Amp jobbie, 5 max, and it is going to complain at 5A, which is in no way adequate for the charging or discharging path.

Diodes like that are also used to allow control circuits to work off whichever battery has the most power. This means that you can remove either battery but your controller will still draw power from whatver battery is available.

Thats my 2c. maybe that sheds a bit of light. But as I say, without a diagram, this is just an educated guess. Would love to see the diagram.
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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by george »

Royco wrote:Nice George! :applaud:
I think I may just borrow your plans... :goodjob:
I must admit that this setup is a bit bulky. I made mine a bit bigger to accommodate a second panel.Obviously I will modify the case to open up side by side.

Hi Wessel.As jy ry laai jou battery net deur die panel of jou alternator ook?

Hi Mike.I was told that you can only charge one battery at a time :? It will help my setup if i can do both of them at the same time.Is your batteries the same size? You completely lost me when you start talking about diodes and stuff :mrgreen:
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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by Maplotter »

Using a diode to protect equipment against reverse polarity connections.

During discharge.
Image
Here the supply is connected to the load in the forward and reverse condition

Image
Here the load is connected to the supply in the forward and reverse condition

Image
Now, the panel becomes the supply and the battery becomes the load during charging.

Standard config.
Image
Now the panel is the supply, and the battery is the storage and the equipment is the load.

With the diodes connected the way they are, they sequence the power from the supply to the stroage to the load while protecting everything against inadvertant reverse connection of either the supply, the battery or the load. When everything is connected correctly the system works, when anything is connected incorrectly, current is blocked and nothing is damaged.

That is the basic layout for a very simple installation.

This installation would, in an ideal state, have an amp meter and a volt meter to show the operatior that there is charge and discharge, as well as showing low and high voltage indication when to cut the supply or the load.
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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by Hannes Meyer »

Mike, thanks it helps me a lot. Can you show something, to make a cut out when your volts drop to low on battery
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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by Maplotter »

Image
The location of the LDO (Low Drop Out) circuit

Image

D1 is a zener diode that determines the general switching area of the circuit. Generally one would select a diode that is about 4 volts less then the maximum battery voltage, giving one a range of about 13V to 9V on a 14V (13.8) battery.

D2 and D3 are relay coil switching spike clamps.

R1 and R2 are maximum and minimum switch point limit adjustments. Here you set the adjustment range from say 12 - 9 or 11 - 10 Volts. depending on values used and battery specification. (Lipo, Lead acid, Nicad, NiMh, etc)

R3 is a base current limiting resistor that will pervent base overdrive on the transistor.

Q1 is the transistor tha will amplify a small voltage variation into a big output swing that will turn the relay on or off.

SW1 is the off swithc, which will discontinue power to the load.

SW2 is the on switch which will enable power to the load.

These switches are pushbuttons with a quick press locking the circuit in the on or off state.

SW3 is a manual bypass so that you can operate the load on/off manually in the event of a malfunction or for manual / automatic LDO control.

Theory.

The battery state is monitored after the relay. As the battery voltage decreases. As it decreases, a reference voltage, which is the battery voltage minus the zener voltage decreases till there is zero drive on the transistor. This will realease the relay, completely cutting drive to the relay.

The circuit is now locked in the off condition.

Presing the ON button will enable the battry voltage back onto the sensing circuit. If it is high enough the circuit will lock into the ON state. If not, it will drop out to the off state.

When in the on state, pressing the OFF button will cut drive to the transistor, making it think that the battery is flat locking the circuit in the OFF state.

The BYPASS switch will remove the LDO circuit from the system, enforcing a permanently ON condition.

The solar panel is permanently connected to the battery providing charge whenever the sun is shining.
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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by Hannes Meyer »

Thank you, Mike
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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by george »

Thanks Mike.
But honestly I dont have a clue of all these electrical diagrams.

i have a Stecca 30 amp controller.Will I be able to charge two batteries simultaneously with my panel?
According to the manual it is not advisable, but it will help me a lot if i can
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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by george »

george wrote:
The attachment sp2.JPG is no longer available
Ok so I decided to ditch the box idea.It was too bulky.I have a pole that supports the panel and the panel fits under my canopy on the inside.With the 2x guy ropes on the panel it is quit sturdy.Quite easy to install under the canopy.
1.JPG
2.JPG
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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by Niel »

goeie idee George
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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by Hannes Meyer »

:thumbup: Looks good
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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by OOOOMS »

George, glo nie hy gaan baie son kry in jou canopy nie, of het jy 'n sky light bo op :?:
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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by Hannes Meyer »

Mark, hy stel sy tru- spieel so dat die son op die panneel skyn :dance1:
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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by OOOOMS »

Hannes Meyer wrote:Mark, hy stel sy tru- spieel so dat die son op die panneel skyn :dance1:
Seker George het 'n plan, hy 'n mannetjie vol plannetjies..... :lol:
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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by ThysdJ »

Daai sonpaneel werk perfectly "down under"... :twisted: :twisted:
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Re: Solar installation Advice needed

Post by george »

Seker George het 'n plan, hy 'n mannetjie vol plannetjies....
Hopeloos te veel plannetjies.......te min tyd :beach:
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