Deep Cycle Batteries

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pietpetoors
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Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:36 pm

The guy from Dixon batteries visited us today.

Had an interesting talk.
They have an un-sealed deep cycle battery , you have to check water like any other battery.
He says this battery is better because you can discharge to 80% of capacity where the sealed batteries everybody sells can just discharge to 50% of capacity.

I would love to hear the slim guys' comments on this.
If it can discharge more without being damaged it should be better for our use than the sealed, maintenance free units.
Prices don't look too bad either.
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ChrisF
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Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:58 pm

Pieter sorry to hi-jack this thread SO early .....


I would also like to know what they offer in SEALED versions - those of us with batteries INSIDE our vehicles cant go for "open" batteries ...


onthou die "oop" battery haal asem en stel HYDROGEN gas vry terwyl dit laai - HOOGS PLOFBAAR !! So you cant have this in enclosed spaces ...



dit is seer sekerlik n goeie opsie vir die manne wat die batterye in die engine bay het ...

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Wed Nov 12, 2014 5:34 pm

Subscribed to this one......... :subscribed:
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Wed Nov 12, 2014 5:44 pm

Never believe the Sealed / maintenance free slogan. All this means is that the voltage these batteries need to charge at 100% optimal rate is higher than the alternators supply. So in other words the charge rate is slow enough that very little gas (or none) is generated. If you now change the charge rate (mod altinator or maybe solar panel) you charge it at a higher rate and it will need maintenance. m2cw

I personally prefer batteries I have to maintain. The reason for this is you will pick up possible issue much quicker than the no-maintenance versions
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Wed Nov 12, 2014 6:43 pm

Sales talk. If it sounds too good to be true...it is.

A deep cycle SHOULD only be discharged 50%, you CAN discharge it more but it WILL get damaged.
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Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:14 pm

Chris think of the process of charging. It cant happen without hydrogen been generated. So where does it go in a sealed battery?

The argument is that if you discharge too much on open battery you can add more water or water/acid and the battery will be Ok again. You cannot do it with a sealed battery.

I know that you can sometimes even save a kaput battery but flushing out all the water and acid and replace with new water and acid.
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Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:40 pm

So ChrisF en Mnr Petoors... Wanneer kry jy vir jou 'n paar LiFePO4 selle om mee te speel? Die ouens op die EV forums en die cruisersforum (dis nou die boot ene) het groot sukses met hulle.
http://marazuladventures.files.wordpres ... eries8.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f14 ... 01378.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Dewald le Grange bring hulle in die land in.
http://www.1zettajoule.com/lifepo4_-_10 ... ctors.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As ek nie so baie gate in my beursie gehad het nie sou ek al vir my 'n paar selle aangeskaf het.

En asseblief voor jy jou bek rek en boeing en die ou litium spoke oproep gaan lees net eers. Dis soos om appels en pere te vergelyk, ja hulle is vrugte maar bleddie ver van dieselfde af.

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Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:58 pm

pietpetoors wrote:Chris think of the process of charging. It cant happen without hydrogen been generated. So where does it go in a sealed battery?

The argument is that if you discharge too much on open battery you can add more water or water/acid and the battery will be Ok again. You cannot do it with a sealed battery.

I know that you can sometimes even save a kaput battery but flushing out all the water and acid and replace with new water and acid.
my nou kon confuse met feite ... :siffler: :surrender:


TRADITIONALLY - as the battery goes through the charging cycle energy is put in and some chemical magic happens in the lead plates yada yada ... and once the battery nears full charge the energy input starts converting pure distilled water (part of the water\acid mixture) into Oxygen and hydrogen gas .... Thus the "boiling" you see if you look at a battery that is charging with the caps off.

enough OVER charge cycles and you need to add distilled water to top up the battery.

so in THEORY with these ultra modern chargers there should be less of this boiling as the chargers backs off once the battery nears full charge .... uhm ja .... the theory sounds so good ..... wonder how this relates to real life ....



the "maintenance" part is okay. I dont mind maintaining my equipment (hel dit klink darem nou net verkeerd)

But I DONT want hydrogen gas in the back of Elders !!!! :shock2: :slap:



so what options are there that are TRULY sealed and that WONT give of gas in the bakkie ????

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Thu Nov 13, 2014 8:26 am

Johan, I did investigate importing LiFePO4 batteries until I saw the cost .
Make perfect sense, I think it is the battery of the future if they can bring the cost down. Cannot understand why it must be that expensive because Iron is a little bit cheaper than Lead.

Chris the hydrogen is part of the electrolysis process. It does not go away in a sealed battery. But I will ask those who are supposed to know and revert back to you ASAP.
We are going to sell the Dixon batteries in our shops, so I want to sort out all these questions before we do.

George already have one of the non-sealed ones in his trokkie.
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Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:25 am

As 'n battery ge-SEAL is, beteken dit jy kan die bat op sy kop laat staan sonder dat daar iets sal gebeur....ek betwyfel dit baie. My vorige battery was 'n sealed unit totdat 'n pel die sticker af getrek het - daar was nogsteeds proppe bo op die battery. Die gas kan ook nie verdwyn nie, dit moet iewer heen gaan. :confused: :confused:

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Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:43 am

Dit is seker doekom almal balloons word
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Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:50 am

OK here is da story:
A sealed battery also have a vent, it must vent.

The main difference:
Un-sealed deep cycle uses lead and antimony
It can cycle deeper - 80% but it does produce more gas than a sealed battery.
It does produce more gas and is not advisable to use in confined space and not to be used close to food or pc boards.
Ideal to use when you mount deep cycle in vented area like in the engine bay.

Sealed battery uses lead and Silver/Calcium Alloy
It does not cycle as deep, only 50% and it does produce less H than the un-sealed battery.
It still vents, but the amount of H is not a risk.

With all batteries they produce more H when being heavily charged. Like when it was flat and you have to pump the juice to get it full again or when you have a faulty alternator which over charge. And Solar panels.
A healthy battery with normal charging produce very little hydrogen. So it is good (Chris) to make sure your battery remain charged. But I think with our modern DC to DC chargers witch automatically cut off the power under 11.5 volt, it is far less of a problem than for people who do not use some kind of battery protector.
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Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:25 am

Dit is seker doekom almal balloons word
Drikus ek dink daai alarm batterye is regtig geseel. Ek het daai goed al gebruik waar hulle op hulle kant lê en hulle lek nie.
Dit is wel dalk hoekom hulle balonne raak as hy overcharge.

Maar die deep cycle batterye wat ons in ons bakkies gebruik is geseël sodat jy nie water kan gooi nie, maar is nie so geseël dat hy nie kan asem haal nie.

Soos ek van vanoggend se les verstaan het is dit die metaal kombinasie wat gebruik word wat veroorsaak dat die een meer gas afgee as die ander.
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Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:14 am

Om die storie nog meer "complicated" te maak.

Ek kom van n ander hoek af in.

Ek wil nou "grand" raak en n kleinerige opsit kry wat die voertuigbattery vol kan hou in die veld. Kry die 10W met n gewone controller en na 3 dae se vol son is die nuwe battery nog nie vol nie. Gelukkig voel die battery nog koud maar dit pla my want die BX-2 wys dat hy vol is. Ek vat die controller terug na die verskaffer toe want hy skakel nie af nie. Daar is nie voorraad nie en ek kry sommer n LCD een. En selfs hy laai nog steeds n 0,7A deur na die battery. BX-2 wys hy is vol.

Die kort van die langstorie is dat ek dink die BX-1 gaan n battery voller charge, in dieselfde tydgleuf, as n BX-2 omdat sy venster van charge kleiner is. En my 10W jobbie gaan die battery nog voller charge as die Bentons, want hy werk op 0,6A. (die "high voltage disconnection protection voltage" is 13,8V). Nou wens ek so ek het n "oop battery" gehad want ek sou graag na die watervlakke wou kyk.

Gaan die battery nou langer hou omdat die 10W hom voller gelaai hou?
Wat gebeur nou met die watervlakke in die battery?
Tyd sal leer.

Ek weet dis nie n deep cycle battery nie maar dink die beginsel is dieselfde.

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Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:25 pm

Dankie Pieter
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Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:41 pm

Pieter BAIE DANKIE :)


Wonder tog hoekom hulle aanmekaar praat van solar panele wat sleg is vir die batterye .... 2x80W panele lewer skaar 8A .... SEKERLIK nie genoeg om die battery seer te maak nie ....

OF praat ons hier van mense wat solar gebruik met cheap en nasty regulators wat AANHOU om daai amps in te druk na die battery reeds vol is ?




PS - party motorfiets (scooter) 12V batterye IS 100% geseel. breek daai seel en die battery groet n paar weke later .... skoolgeld is betaal.

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Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:01 pm

Ek dink dit is as jou controller nie ophou om te laai wanneer jou battery vol is. Is soos ou battery laaiers wat net aanhou laai het.

Dit is hoekom iets soos ons dc to dc charger goed is want jy plug die sonpanele by die dc to dc charger in en hy beheer die laaiproses.
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