A&G spontaneously doubled my premium

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StuckInTheMudd
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Sat Apr 23, 2016 9:19 am

After being a member of Auto & General for a year, I get an e-mail informing me that my premium will go from R1000 to R1700 as of next month, without a reason. I made no changes to my policy, no claims, nothing changed or happened that would prompt a 70% increase :shock2: .

I e-mailed them demanding an explanation, a few days later I received a boilerplate response saying that the matter has been forwarded to the broker to discuss a "a possible decrease in premium". (The premium should not have been increased in the first place!).I have still not received a response to discuss "a possible decrease in premium".

Side-note: I found out per chance from a conversation with someone that normal insurance policies do not cover incidents while off-road. Being new and inexperienced to off-roading, I did not know this. But A&G also don't mention that my OFF-ROAD vehicle is not covered whilst OFF-ROAD :aggresive: .

So I recently opened a policy with TuffStuff and phoned A&G to cancel my policy. I asked for a confirmation as to the policy's cancellation. Still waiting. So next month I'm going to have to fight to get my illegally-deducted money back.

TL;DR Screw you, Auto & General. :thumbdown:

Rant over.

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Rebel 4x4
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Sat Apr 23, 2016 10:26 am

I'm also with A&G, via Hippo. Did your broker put you on to them or did you do it yourself. Looks like that I'll have to be prepared for a shocker......
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StuckInTheMudd
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Sat Apr 23, 2016 11:32 am

I did it to myself. :slap:

But TuffStuff quoted me R1500. Off-road cover obviously, with tyre cover etc. Still a lot, but not as bad.

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Sat Apr 23, 2016 3:30 pm

Try Cross Country aswell?
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Sat Apr 23, 2016 7:00 pm

A&G .... short version - after months of issues with their legal department I caught them (their legal department) on a blatant lie !! Drove to their local offices in Century City, provided proof of the lie, and indicated that I was on my way to the cops to lay a charge.

They paid out promptly.

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Sat Apr 23, 2016 7:05 pm

What happened?
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StuckInTheMudd
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Sat Apr 23, 2016 7:06 pm

Thabogrobler wrote:Try Cross Country aswell?
I did not. Their website confused me :blink: Hopefully TS live up to the good things I've heard.

In a way, it's good that A&G pulled this now. Rather than when I need to claim for something serious. Good riddance.

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ChrisF
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Sat Apr 23, 2016 7:27 pm

4x4 insurance .... now their is one slippery slope ....

WHAT is "4x4", what is "off road", what is a "trail", what is "reckless driving", what is a "timed event" ????????

look out for these various terms in the various policies.

Then look at the "Service" offered.


I am with Santam, via a broker. You CAN elect to have EXTRA 4x4 cover, for off road cover. You CAN also provide documented proof of the cost of your extras, and have these insured as well - at a very reasonable rate.

TuffStuff offered the same "cover".

Where TuffStuff and CrossCountry is miles ahead of the rest "service" - they come and get you when you are stuck off-road. Even when broken down accross the border, the come with a flatbed and bring you back HOME.

With all the rest you have to get back to the nearest tar road by yourself .... EINA !!

Break down accross the border and YOU pay to get your vehicle to the nearest town accross the border, ie break down in Namibia and your vehicle is repatriated to Springbok where it remains until repaired - get home on your own, AND get your vehicle from Springbok on your own ..... After the claim has been settled, 2 maybe 3 months down the line you could get up to R50k back of the repatriation costs.

So if you are going to do a lot of cross border trips you better have cash handy for repatriation, or have CrossCountry or TuffStuff insurance.


Trails ... The classic grade 2 or 3 trails should not be a problem with the likes of Santam. But when moving into the real hazardous trails they could claim it was reasonable to foresee damage, and thus repudiate the claim ...

NONE of these, not even TuffStuff, cover you when you take part in fun days with "timed events" !!!!!!! TuffStuff actually withdrew their sponsorship from a particular event due to "timed events".



Getting back to A&G - friend has a Jeep Wrangler, broke two trailing arms on a trail. A&G insisted HE get the vehicle to the nearest tar road .... We had to drive back to Cape Town from the Koo Valley to get parts and straps. Bandaged the Wrangler up good enough to drive it down the trail ... Put it on a flatbed and brought it back. I do believe A&G PAID for his repairs. But without about 10 good buddies to help him, his Jeep would still have been on top of that trail ....


TuffStuff - they are VERY active WITH the 4x4 members accross SA. They call on this pool of volunteers to help them recover stricken 4x4's off trails when their tow trucks cant reach the vehicles. THEY do all the phoning and arrange the complete operation, keeping their client notified at all times. I have actually been a volunteer in one of their rescue missions, and can factually confirm that they DO take good care of their clients.

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Rebel 4x4
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Sat Apr 23, 2016 7:33 pm

My concern is wit payout when stolen or in accident.


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rigardt
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Sat Apr 23, 2016 7:39 pm

very interesting. so what's recommended if a 4x4 vehicle gets used mostly on tar roads and every now and then on a trail or club meeting ? never going out of country although still hoping to get to Mozambique

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ChrisF
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Sat Apr 23, 2016 7:44 pm

Thomas my experience with them - they will offer you about 75% of what is due you. Then as soon as you get cross they refer the matter to their legal department. The outcome of the case is then solely in the hands of their legal department. Now either you get a lawyer - which they KNOW will cost more than the money in dispute - OR you get ready for MONTHS of drawn out correspondence .....

DO record every single conversation you have with them !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I will never ever do business with A&G again !!

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ChrisF
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Sat Apr 23, 2016 7:53 pm

rigardt wrote:very interesting. so what's recommended if a 4x4 vehicle gets used mostly on tar roads and every now and then on a trail or club meeting ? never going out of country although still hoping to get to Mozambique
exactly why I kept all my insurance with SANTAM - via a good broker.

I knew what I was covered for. And I knew the limitations of the cover - and took appropriate precautions, ie no cowboy moves ... made sure my vehicle was properly serviced before going across the border.


before we get totally paranoid - WHAT can go wrong accross the border ? Flat tire ? Certainly, take a tire repair kit and possibly even a second spare tire. Southern Africa is WELL traveled, and you are never truly alone ... with the right attitude and preparations it is easy enough to survive a day or two, then get a tow to the next town. Get a bos-fix, and drive home.

Your biggest single risk is the next town being without fuel over the busy periods !!! THIS happens OFTEN. Fill up when the tank reaches the 1/2 mark !! We have seen tourists miss their return flights because they could not get fuel to get back to Windhoek in time !!

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Rebel 4x4
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Sat Apr 23, 2016 8:12 pm

Thanks Oom Chris. I moved away from SANTAM, not because they were bad, but because of price. Looks like I need to investigate another insurance company.....


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Dowe Koos
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Sat Apr 23, 2016 9:21 pm

Hallo daar, my vrou was by First for Women wat 'n filiaal is van A&G en hulle het laas maand haar premie ook skielik amper verdubbel sonder kennisgewing. Sy het hierdie maand oorgegaan na M&F waar ek my versekering het, goedkoper as wat sy gehad het voor die verhoging. Ek het versekering op alles uitgeneem, huis met inhoud, draagbare elektronies toerusting, twee voertuie en twee bike vir R1800 'n maand. Nou net op die bakkie, dit is verseker, alu canopy is verseker. Al wat ek moet doen wanneer ek op 'n trippie gaan, is om hulle net te laat weet ek gaan weg vir 'n naweek of langer. Hulle sit 'n klein premie op net vir daardie tydperk en dan is alles verseker wat op of in daardie bakkie is, My RTT, yskas, powerpack en alles tot kos. As ek oorland gaan en kry probleme daar met die bakkie self, bel ek hulle en hulle reël vir 'n insleepdiens van waar ek ookal is tot by die grens en weer 'n Suid-Afrikaanse insleepdiens van die grens tot by die huis teen geen koste. As ek 'n gewone 4x4 dag trip doen en iets gebeur met die bakkie, is ek gedek. Ek werk deur 'n makelaar. Is baie tevrede met hulle.
Ecc 1:9 Wat gewees het, dit sal daar weer wees; en wat gebeur het, dit sal weer gebeur, en daar is glad niks nuuts onder die son nie.

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Fanusl
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Sat Apr 23, 2016 10:31 pm

Ek het so paar maande terug 'n tweede kwotasie vir my versekering gekry wat baie goedkoper was vir dieselfde dekking. Ek stuur dit toe in na my versekerings makelaar. Na so week stuur hulle vir my 'n nuwe kontrak met 'n afslag van R800 rand per maand. Nou kan ek weer saamleef daarmee.

Thabogrobler
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Sat Apr 23, 2016 10:33 pm

Was by M&F en hulle(of dan die makelaar) was uiters flink - verskeie eise.

Skuif toe Tuff Stuff toe en vind later uit hulle dek nie voertuie wat in die konstruksie veld gebruik wird nie - geen eise.

Nou is ek by Santam. Nog nooit geeis nie maar hul admin is verseker nie so flink soos M&F nie, maar ek dink eerder dis die girl by die makelaar wat 'n wakeuo nodig het.

Vrou se Rover by Cross Country. Hul personeel kan bietjie maniere aanleer en hul admin sisteem se effektiwiteit suig.

Onglangs 'n eis by CC gehad en twee weke nadat ek die huur motor terug gegee het soek Hertz nog hul kar...
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ChrisF
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Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:40 am

Santam is n "wierd" een ....

Regtig net so goed soos die makelaar wat jy het !!

2011 my eerste motor ongeluk in 20 jaar gehad - rear-end, terwyl ek stil staan by n rooi robot. My makelaar gebel en gevra hoe werk dinge deesdae ...

basies 2 keuses:

1) betaal die excess en laat Santam dit reg maak, en na die tyd probeer Santam dan die excess terug eis (indien die ander party skuldig was).

2) dring aan die ander party was skuldig en Santam vat hulle aan - eers as hul skuld bewys is, begin die reg maak proses. DIT kan LANK vat en geen waarborg nie ....

My makelaar het opsie EEN aanbeveel. Ek het haar raad gevolg en 10 dae later was my voertuig terug van die panelbeaters. Dit het nog twee of drie maande gevat voor my bybetaling terug betaal is.


2013 stamp iemand my kar op n werks terrein .... weer presies dieselfde proses gevolg. Moes twee weke wag vir die panel beaters om die parte te kry. Paar dae later is die kar terug, en reg. Die keer het dit amper drie maande gevat om die excess terug te kry ... die ou wat die ander voertuig bestuur het was nie gemagtig om die voertuig te bestuur nie ... jada jada ... My makelaar het my heeltyd op hoogte gehou, en ek het niks van die dramas gehad nie. Als uitgesorteer deur my makelaar. :)


Kolega se vrou het n klein insident gehad - ook by Santam, sonder n makelaar. Santam gee toe die raad dat hulle direk eis, want sy is mos onskuldig .... 18 maande later het sy nog rond gery met die skraap merke op haar voertuig ....


Nee wat - werk liewer deur n goeie makelaar !!

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Dowe Koos
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Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:44 am

Nee wat - werk liewer deur n goeie makelaar !! +1
Ecc 1:9 Wat gewees het, dit sal daar weer wees; en wat gebeur het, dit sal weer gebeur, en daar is glad niks nuuts onder die son nie.

StuckInTheMudd
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Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:52 am

I wasn't aware that one could deal directly with the insurer. When I apply for a quote it's automatically done through a broker.

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louis fourie
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Sun Apr 24, 2016 10:03 am

Thabogrobler wrote:
Onglangs 'n eis by CC gehad en twee weke nadat ek die huur motor terug gegee het soek Hertz nog hul kar...
Altyd geweet jy's skelm, maar kon nooit my vinger daarop sit nie

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Sun Apr 24, 2016 10:31 am

Santam will NEVER see me again. They wormed out every way they could to avoid paying a claim we had. Might have been the crap assessor they sent, but they did not respond to my emails of complaint. They then threatened to blacklist me with all other insurers, I told them to go ahead, will see them in court.

We shifted to M&F immediately, had a lightning-damage claim that very same day and M&F paid out without any sweat. M&F now also recover vehicles from over the border but there are restrictions as with Tuff Stuff, but these are minimal.

I use the same broker in respect of both the companies above.


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Rebel 4x4
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Sun Apr 24, 2016 11:18 am

ChrisF wrote:Santam is n "wierd" een ....

Regtig net so goed soos die makelaar wat jy het !!

2011 my eerste motor ongeluk in 20 jaar gehad - rear-end, terwyl ek stil staan by n rooi robot. My makelaar gebel en gevra hoe werk dinge deesdae ...

basies 2 keuses:

1) betaal die excess en laat Santam dit reg maak, en na die tyd probeer Santam dan die excess terug eis (indien die ander party skuldig was).

2) dring aan die ander party was skuldig en Santam vat hulle aan - eers as hul skuld bewys is, begin die reg maak proses. DIT kan LANK vat en geen waarborg nie ....

My makelaar het opsie EEN aanbeveel. Ek het haar raad gevolg en 10 dae later was my voertuig terug van die panelbeaters. Dit het nog twee of drie maande gevat voor my bybetaling terug betaal is.


2013 stamp iemand my kar op n werks terrein .... weer presies dieselfde proses gevolg. Moes twee weke wag vir die panel beaters om die parte te kry. Paar dae later is die kar terug, en reg. Die keer het dit amper drie maande gevat om die excess terug te kry ... die ou wat die ander voertuig bestuur het was nie gemagtig om die voertuig te bestuur nie ... jada jada ... My makelaar het my heeltyd op hoogte gehou, en ek het niks van die dramas gehad nie. Als uitgesorteer deur my makelaar. :)


Kolega se vrou het n klein insident gehad - ook by Santam, sonder n makelaar. Santam gee toe die raad dat hulle direk eis, want sy is mos onskuldig .... 18 maande later het sy nog rond gery met die skraap merke op haar voertuig ....


Nee wat - werk liewer deur n goeie makelaar !!
Toe ek by SANTAM was het 'n vrou teen my vasgery en weggejaag, wel - sy het probeer en ekt haar ingehaal. Ekt fotos geneem terwyl sy weghardloop, polisie ontbied. SANTAM prokureur was namens my in hof en 3 maande later my excess terug ontvang. Sys skuldig bevind en alle kostes van haar af verskuldig.

Dit alles sonder "broker". 3 oproepe, 1 na polisie, 1 na SANTAM en een na my ma om te sê ek was in ongeluk.

Dit hang af met wie jy deel op watter dag.
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ChrisF
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Sun Apr 24, 2016 3:06 pm

Rebel 4x4 wrote:
ChrisF wrote:Santam is n "wierd" een ....

Regtig net so goed soos die makelaar wat jy het !!

2011 my eerste motor ongeluk in 20 jaar gehad - rear-end, terwyl ek stil staan by n rooi robot. My makelaar gebel en gevra hoe werk dinge deesdae ...

basies 2 keuses:

1) betaal die excess en laat Santam dit reg maak, en na die tyd probeer Santam dan die excess terug eis (indien die ander party skuldig was).

2) dring aan die ander party was skuldig en Santam vat hulle aan - eers as hul skuld bewys is, begin die reg maak proses. DIT kan LANK vat en geen waarborg nie ....

My makelaar het opsie EEN aanbeveel. Ek het haar raad gevolg en 10 dae later was my voertuig terug van die panelbeaters. Dit het nog twee of drie maande gevat voor my bybetaling terug betaal is.


2013 stamp iemand my kar op n werks terrein .... weer presies dieselfde proses gevolg. Moes twee weke wag vir die panel beaters om die parte te kry. Paar dae later is die kar terug, en reg. Die keer het dit amper drie maande gevat om die excess terug te kry ... die ou wat die ander voertuig bestuur het was nie gemagtig om die voertuig te bestuur nie ... jada jada ... My makelaar het my heeltyd op hoogte gehou, en ek het niks van die dramas gehad nie. Als uitgesorteer deur my makelaar. :)


Kolega se vrou het n klein insident gehad - ook by Santam, sonder n makelaar. Santam gee toe die raad dat hulle direk eis, want sy is mos onskuldig .... 18 maande later het sy nog rond gery met die skraap merke op haar voertuig ....


Nee wat - werk liewer deur n goeie makelaar !!
Toe ek by SANTAM was het 'n vrou teen my vasgery en weggejaag, wel - sy het probeer en ekt haar ingehaal. Ekt fotos geneem terwyl sy weghardloop, polisie ontbied. SANTAM prokureur was namens my in hof en 3 maande later my excess terug ontvang. Sys skuldig bevind en alle kostes van haar af verskuldig.

Dit alles sonder "broker". 3 oproepe, 1 na polisie, 1 na SANTAM en een na my ma om te sê ek was in ongeluk.

Dit hang af met wie jy deel op watter dag.
DIT is so baie waar !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :thumbup:



met n goeie makelaar hoef ek gelukkig nie te worry oor watter een daai dag my oproep kry nie. :siffler: :twisted:

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ronnie
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Mon Apr 25, 2016 1:12 pm

StuckInTheMudd wrote: So I recently opened a policy with TuffStuff and phoned A&G to cancel my policy. I asked for a confirmation as to the policy's cancellation. Still waiting. So next month I'm going to have to fight to get my illegally-deducted money back.

TL;DR Screw you, Auto & General. :thumbdown:

Rant over.
If they debit you again rather just get your bank to reverse the debit order citing them not having authorization to debit your account. Worked for me when I couldn't get a cellphone provider (no names mentioned) to stop debiting my account unlawfully.

StuckInTheMudd
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Mon Apr 25, 2016 1:45 pm

ronnie wrote:If they debit you again rather just get your bank to reverse the debit order citing them not having authorization to debit your account. Worked for me when I couldn't get a cellphone provider (no names mentioned) to stop debiting my account unlawfully.
Yes that's my plan. But I suspect the bank will try to make it my problem and tell me to sort it out with the debtor.

This is why I record my phone calls.

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Oupa Stig
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Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:26 pm

Santam, goeie broker, geen hassles. Maar nognie my bakkie seergemaak op 'n trail of buite SA nie, so ons sal maar moet sien as dit gebeur. Hopenlik hoef ek nooit uit te vind nie.
I feel a lot less wise at 45 than I did at 15.

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Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:33 am

I've heard good things about Santam from my friend who is an insurance broker.

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Real Name: Ronnie
ORRA Call Sign: HC 141

Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:22 pm

StuckInTheMudd wrote:
ronnie wrote:If they debit you again rather just get your bank to reverse the debit order citing them not having authorization to debit your account. Worked for me when I couldn't get a cellphone provider (no names mentioned) to stop debiting my account unlawfully.
Yes that's my plan. But I suspect the bank will try to make it my problem and tell me to sort it out with the debtor.

This is why I record my phone calls.
No they can't make it your problem. If the 3rd party has no authority to debit they must reverse it. The fact that you cancelled means they have no authority to debit. With my bank it was one form filled in and sent back to them.

StuckInTheMudd
High Range 4WD
High Range 4WD
Posts: 98
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:32 am
Town: Durbanville
Vehicle: Hilux 3.0 D-4D Xtracab 4x4
Real Name: Greg

Tue Apr 26, 2016 2:07 pm

ronnie wrote:
StuckInTheMudd wrote:
ronnie wrote:If they debit you again rather just get your bank to reverse the debit order citing them not having authorization to debit your account. Worked for me when I couldn't get a cellphone provider (no names mentioned) to stop debiting my account unlawfully.
Yes that's my plan. But I suspect the bank will try to make it my problem and tell me to sort it out with the debtor.

This is why I record my phone calls.
No they can't make it your problem. If the 3rd party has no authority to debit they must reverse it. The fact that you cancelled means they have no authority to debit. With my bank it was one form filled in and sent back to them.
Let's see what happens next week. Hopefully it doesn't come to that

StuckInTheMudd
High Range 4WD
High Range 4WD
Posts: 98
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:32 am
Town: Durbanville
Vehicle: Hilux 3.0 D-4D Xtracab 4x4
Real Name: Greg

Thu May 05, 2016 8:24 am

Update: Premium was not illegally deducted. All good :thumbup:

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Rebel 4x4
LR4WD, Lockers, Crawler Gears
LR4WD, Lockers, Crawler Gears
Posts: 1599
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:28 pm
Town: Port Elizabeth
Vehicle: 2014 Suzuki Jimny
Real Name: Thomas
Location: Port Elizabeth

Sun May 08, 2016 2:05 pm

StuckInTheMudd wrote:Update: Premium was not illegally deducted. All good :thumbup:
Elaborate, I'm with A&G, not sure if I should panic or not when it comes to my 12 months.
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StuckInTheMudd
High Range 4WD
High Range 4WD
Posts: 98
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:32 am
Town: Durbanville
Vehicle: Hilux 3.0 D-4D Xtracab 4x4
Real Name: Greg

Sun May 08, 2016 5:54 pm

I asked for confirmation as to the cancellation of my policy, which they never bothered to send. So I was concerned that the policy was not cancelled and that the next month's (inflated) premium would be deducted.

Fortunately it was not.

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Rebel 4x4
LR4WD, Lockers, Crawler Gears
LR4WD, Lockers, Crawler Gears
Posts: 1599
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:28 pm
Town: Port Elizabeth
Vehicle: 2014 Suzuki Jimny
Real Name: Thomas
Location: Port Elizabeth

Sun May 08, 2016 7:41 pm

Do they double all client's premiums when they hit 12 months, regardless if they never claim?


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StuckInTheMudd
High Range 4WD
High Range 4WD
Posts: 98
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:32 am
Town: Durbanville
Vehicle: Hilux 3.0 D-4D Xtracab 4x4
Real Name: Greg

Mon May 09, 2016 8:07 am

Rebel 4x4 wrote:Do they double all client's premiums when they hit 12 months, regardless if they never claim?
I wouldn't be able to tell you that. I do however recall another forum member having a similar complaint. Can't remember who though...

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