We met Steven at 4x4Mega Pretoria last year just before AAWDC when Johan from Voetspore had his chat.Vrydag omstreeks 18:30 is drie Suid-Afrikaanse burgers ernstig beseer toe die Toyota Fortuner waarin hulle vanaf Mata- Mata na Mariental onderweg was, sowat 40 kilometer buite die dorp op die grondpad na Gochas gerol het, berig Nampa. Mnr. Steven Colyn (31), sy vrou Karien (31) en die 59-jarige mnr. Hendrik Engelbrecht is beseer. Me. Cecilia Johanna Engelbrect en die tweejarige Henroe Colyn het ongedeerd daarvan afgekom.
forum member rolls his Fortuner while on tour
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- Monster Truck
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forum member rolls his Fortuner while on tour
Received this on e-mail today.
Know what you don't know.
- Thunder02
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Re: forum member rolls his Fortuner while on tour
Thats bad news
Not all those who wander are lost!
Scout motto:be prepared....
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Email: boksburg@4x4direct.co.za
IFS is like a swambo, soft, sexy and expensive!
Scout motto:be prepared....
www.4x4direct.co.za
Email: boksburg@4x4direct.co.za
IFS is like a swambo, soft, sexy and expensive!
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Re: forum member rolls his Fortuner while on tour
This is not nice.Please keep us updated if anybody has more info
"The World is a book, and those who do not travel read only a page.-Saint Augustine"
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Re: forum member rolls his Fortuner while on tour
Eish! hope it's not too serious!
When your road comes to an end ...... you need a HILUX!.
Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers ... what you do today, might burn your ass tomorrow.
Don't take life too seriously ..... no-one gets out alive.
It's not about waiting for storms to pass. It's about learning to dance in the rain.
And be yourself ..... everyone else is taken!
Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers ... what you do today, might burn your ass tomorrow.
Don't take life too seriously ..... no-one gets out alive.
It's not about waiting for storms to pass. It's about learning to dance in the rain.
And be yourself ..... everyone else is taken!
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Re: forum member rolls his Fortuner while on tour
His wife broke her back in 2 places and she is still in ICU.
Sounds severe
Sounds severe
Know what you don't know.
- Mud Dog
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Re: forum member rolls his Fortuner while on tour
Ai ai ai! That's not lekker at all! Broken limbs and lacerations heal, but this could well result in paralysis.
When your road comes to an end ...... you need a HILUX!.
Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers ... what you do today, might burn your ass tomorrow.
Don't take life too seriously ..... no-one gets out alive.
It's not about waiting for storms to pass. It's about learning to dance in the rain.
And be yourself ..... everyone else is taken!
Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers ... what you do today, might burn your ass tomorrow.
Don't take life too seriously ..... no-one gets out alive.
It's not about waiting for storms to pass. It's about learning to dance in the rain.
And be yourself ..... everyone else is taken!
Re: forum member rolls his Fortuner while on tour
That's sad news..... Hope they recover quickly :!:
Traveled that exact same route 10 days ago, very scenic and twisty with some corrugation
Traveled that exact same route 10 days ago, very scenic and twisty with some corrugation
- Rebel 4x4
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Re: forum member rolls his Fortuner while on tour
Ek dog Toyota het hulle nonsens uitgesort met Fortuners wat op grondpaaie omdop! Dis die 2de keer die jaar dat ek so tragedie hoor. Hoop hulle sterk goed aan en bly dat hulle almal oorleef het!
- CasKru
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Re: forum member rolls his Fortuner while on tour
DIt is baie jammer om te hoor... ons bid hulle beterskap toe
To God be the glory
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Re: forum member rolls his Fortuner while on tour
Jy kan Toyota ook net verantwoordelik hou vir soveel met die voertuig. Daar is baie ander veranderlikes wat mens nie in 'n voertuig kan inbou nie. En om iets onrolbaar te bou is dalk nie so prakties nie.Rebel 4x4 wrote:Ek dog Toyota het hulle nonsens uitgesort met Fortuners wat op grondpaaie omdop!
Cassie, stem saam. Bid vir die beste.
Sodra Steven sy selfoon kan antwoord sal mens meer kan uitvind en die stand van almal se gesondheid kan bevestig.
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Re: forum member rolls his Fortuner while on tour
Bad news, my thoughts go out to them for a full and speedy recovery. Good to hear that all survived the accident.
-F_D
-F_D
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Re: forum member rolls his Fortuner while on tour
Not good at all, wishing them a speedy emotional and physical recovery.
Tumelo Maketekete
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We don't stop playing because we grow old, but we grow old because we stop playing!
2002 - 3.0KZ-TE Toyota Hilux (Letebele)
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Donkey, simple and often misunderstood.
We don't stop playing because we grow old, but we grow old because we stop playing!
2002 - 3.0KZ-TE Toyota Hilux (Letebele)
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- jacques kotze
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Re: forum member rolls his Fortuner while on tour
Dis slegte nuus, ek het daai pad gery so middel Desember, en ek moet se, behalwe vir die paar draaie is dit n baie goeie pad. Maar het wel n paar perde in die pad gekry by die kruising van Gochas, Mariental en Stampriet. Hoop hulle herstel vinneg.
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Re: forum member rolls his Fortuner while on tour
Ons hoop hulle herstel vinnig.
- Jackal
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Re: forum member rolls his Fortuner while on tour
I also drove that road a few days ago (bumped into OOOOMS in Koes after he overtook my slow dirt road driving) and it is a tricky section. Being an inexperienced off-roader myself I found my bakkie squirming around a fair amount especially when the wheels drifted off the hard pack into the softer middle and side mannetijies and was thinking to myself how easily you could lose it here. Keep safe out there guys and keep the shiny side up and the rubber bits in the dirt. Hope the family recovers from their injuries quickly and insurance pays what is owed.
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KTM 300 XC-W 2008
- pietpetoors
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Re: forum member rolls his Fortuner while on tour
Always sad to hear, I hope they will recover soon. Does anybody know if they back in SA?
Only Dead Fish Go With The Flow!
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1999 Hilux 2.7i 4x4 Raider DC with 3.4 Prado V6. Rear diff-lock, Bull Bar and rock sliders, 31" Cooper ST Maxx, Snorkel, Alu-Canopy, VHF Motorolla radio, West Coast Rust, Mikem Suspension, Ball Joint Spacers in front and Mikem extended shackles at the rear, 25watt LED Spots
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Re: forum member rolls his Fortuner while on tour
Stem 100% maar kan n mens nie toyota dagvaar vir die 40%-70% wat dit hulle skuld is nie???Traveler wrote:Jy kan Toyota ook net verantwoordelik hou vir soveel met die voertuig. Daar is baie ander veranderlikes wat mens nie in 'n voertuig kan inbou nie. En om iets onrolbaar te bou is dalk nie so prakties nie.Rebel 4x4 wrote:Ek dog Toyota het hulle nonsens uitgesort met Fortuners wat op grondpaaie omdop!
.
N mens hoor net nie van enige ander vervaardiger wat so baie en so maklik omdop nie!
Maar dis nou die minste van die mense se worries kom ons hoop en bid hulle word gou gesond!!
- Jackal
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Re: forum member rolls his Fortuner while on tour
Here is some more info http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/sho ... p?t=103965" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (assume its the same crash?)
Toyota Hilux 2700i DC 4x4 2002
KTM 300 XC-W 2008
KTM 300 XC-W 2008
- CasKru
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Re: forum member rolls his Fortuner while on tour
This is just speculation on my side but according to the pic on the community forum there is a roofrack attached. Maybe it was a bit top heavy and with stability on corrugation...?
To God be the glory
- jacques kotze
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Re: forum member rolls his Fortuner while on tour
As ek na die rims kyk lyk dit vir my na die eerste Fortuners.
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Re: forum member rolls his Fortuner while on tour
Yip, that is him.Jackal wrote:Here is some more info http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/sho ... p?t=103965" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (assume its the same crash?)
Know what you don't know.
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Re: forum member rolls his Fortuner while on tour
Ons gebede is ook vir spoedige herstel sonder ernstige nagevolge. Net weer 'n bewys dat ongeluk sy naam verdien - bitter vinnig.
LOS MAAR DIE KAAS, GENIET DIT NET !!
- arnize2
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Re: forum member rolls his Fortuner while on tour
Daar rol elke jaar SA vakansiegangers hulle voertuie in Namibie. Die grondpaaie daar is nogal geneig om mens 'n vals gevoel van veiligheid te gee. Sterkte en ons hoop dat almal spoedig en volkome sal herstel.
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Re: forum member rolls his Fortuner while on tour
Stef is ontslaan, maar sy arm en kop is beseer.
Die berig was verkeerd gewees. Sy skoonpa is ongedeerd, sy skoonma is erg beseer.
Beide sy vrou en sy skoonma is in ICU in Milpark.
Sy skoonma word behandel vir gesig en borsbeserings en is tans op 'n ventilator.
Sy vrou het haar rug en skouer ekstensief beseer. En die prognose vir volkome herstel is twyfelagtig.
Die berig was verkeerd gewees. Sy skoonpa is ongedeerd, sy skoonma is erg beseer.
Beide sy vrou en sy skoonma is in ICU in Milpark.
Sy skoonma word behandel vir gesig en borsbeserings en is tans op 'n ventilator.
Sy vrou het haar rug en skouer ekstensief beseer. En die prognose vir volkome herstel is twyfelagtig.
Know what you don't know.
Re: forum member rolls his Fortuner while on tour
Dankie vir die update, hoop hulle herstel vinnagTraveler wrote:Stef is ontslaan, maar sy arm en kop is beseer.
Die berig was verkeerd gewees. Sy skoonpa is ongedeerd, sy skoonma is erg beseer.
Beide sy vrou en sy skoonma is in ICU in Milpark.
Sy skoonma word behandel vir gesig en borsbeserings en is tans op 'n ventilator.
Sy vrou het haar rug en skouer ekstensief beseer. En die prognose vir volkome herstel is twyfelagtig.
- GI Jane
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Re: forum member rolls his Fortuner while on tour
So very sorry to hear the bad news.... hope for a full recovery for all of them..
- Piesang
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Re: forum member rolls his Fortuner while on tour
Sjoe - nooit goed om te hoor. Gelukkig aanbid ons 'n God wat wonderwerke kan doen, en daarom is my gebed vir volkome geneesing vir almal.
"Onderwerp julle dan aan God; weerstaan die duiwel, en hy sal van julle wegvlug." Jak 4:7
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Re: forum member rolls his Fortuner while on tour
Hier gaan ons alweer.Eerstens wil ek die persone betrokke n spoedige en volkome herstel toewens,maar wonder tog wat die omstandighede rondom die voorval was.As trotse eienaar van n 2006 Toyota Omval 4x4 moet ek tog n ding of twee van die bors af kry.My voertuig word aangewend vir dit waarvoor ek hom gekoop het.Grondpaaie,teerpaaie,roetes en uitdagings om maar n paar te noem en as dit moet sommer 15 sak sement vir n bousite.Nog nooit het ek die indruk gekry dat dat die perd oppad is om my af tegooi nie.Om genoemde rede is ek een van die Fortuner eienaars wat omgesukkel raak as daar tot gevolgtrekkings gespring word as een op sy dak beland en die voertuig en vervaardiger die pak daarvoor moet vat.Wat egter baie interresant is ,is die feit dat ek baie onlangs in die mark was vir n tweede steering pump en starter.Groot was my verbasing toe ek van een twedehandse parte handelaar gestuur is na die ander en uiteindelik maar nuut moes koop.My vraag:waar begrawe hulle al die Fortuners wat so omval?In my soeke het ek egter opgelet dat die scrapyards toegegooi le met met alle make van voertuie.Ja,Toyotas,Nissans,Kias,Hyundais,Ford en vele ander van verskillende shapes en sizes,maar tog nie een waar ek n ou part kan gaan afhaal nie.I rest my case met oom Boy Louw se woorde.Looks at the scoreboard,hy bly die top verkoper in sy klas.
Snorkel,chip,burnco front bumper
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Re: forum member rolls his Fortuner while on tour
Results of this very unfortunate incident.
- Attachments
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- Trailer1.jpg (29.73 KiB) Viewed 3096 times
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- Fortuner1.jpg (20.31 KiB) Viewed 3096 times
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- Fortuner2.jpg (19.08 KiB) Viewed 3096 times
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- Fortuner3.jpg (31.29 KiB) Viewed 3096 times
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- Fortuner4.jpg (30.95 KiB) Viewed 3096 times
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- Fortuner5.jpg (25.89 KiB) Viewed 3096 times
Know what you don't know.
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- Monster Truck
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Re: forum member rolls his Fortuner while on tour
Petrus, 'n stuiwer in die aambeurs van "rumours".........
Toyota het swaar deurgeloop onder die slegte nuus van al die retro-fits in die VSA. Dit sluit in die sogenaamde probleme met voertuie waarvan die rempedale nie gewerk het nie. Interessante feit is dat Toyota het al daardie ongeluksvoertuie na die tyd aangekoop, en die ECU's se data nagegaan. In nie 1 van daardie voertuie was daar enige drukking op die rempedaal ten tye, of voor die ongeluk nie.
And that is what I have to say about that.
Toyota het swaar deurgeloop onder die slegte nuus van al die retro-fits in die VSA. Dit sluit in die sogenaamde probleme met voertuie waarvan die rempedale nie gewerk het nie. Interessante feit is dat Toyota het al daardie ongeluksvoertuie na die tyd aangekoop, en die ECU's se data nagegaan. In nie 1 van daardie voertuie was daar enige drukking op die rempedaal ten tye, of voor die ongeluk nie.
And that is what I have to say about that.
Know what you don't know.
- JohanM
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Re: forum member rolls his Fortuner while on tour
As ek so vinnig na die fotos kyk gaan ek nou net se dat n sleepwa wat n kort A raam het gekombineerd met n kort rear axle to towbar op n grond pad is n resep vir pakslae soek.
Ek kritiseer niemand nie, maar hoe korter die sleepwa se aframe is agter n voertuig hoe meer geneig is die trailer om onstabiel te sleep. Ek vermoed die trailer het dalk getwitch agter die Fortuner in die sagte grond, en dit het die voertuig ge unsettle. Ook as mens kyk na die fotos wil dit voorkom dat die meeste van die gewig op die dakrak was oor die agter as gelaai. Dit sal maak dat enige voertuig begin onstabiel raak op n grond pad as die agter as die meeste gewig dra en die neus lig word agv al die gewig.
Hierdie ongeluk is nie die Fortuner se skuld nie. Dit is die operator se fout gewees.
So foute hierso wat gehelp het om aanleiding te gee tot die ongeluk se graad van ergheid is:
Light duty 5 voet trailer met stywe bande en 13" duim wiele. Die trailers is gebou vir n wye reeks aan wendings, maar as mens lang afstande grond paaie wil sleep, sit dieselfde bande op jou sleepwa as wat jou voertuig op het. Dit maak die trailer baie beter sleep en ook baie gemakliker hanteer op n grondpad. Hierdie wa se suspension travel en cussioning is basies nul, so as hy iets tref voel die sleep voertuig dit ook en sal die voertuig kan unsettle.
Trailer se a frame is te kort om eintlik deur so groot voertuig gesleep te word tensy dit oor kort afstande is en dan op stabiele opervlaktes soos teer.
EK vermoed ook dat die bandruk op al 6 bande nie korrek was nie en ook dat die centre diff lock nooit gesluit was op die grond pad nie. Spoed lyk nie asof dit die groot oorsaak hierso is nie, en die voertuig se ontwerp is ook nie die oorsaak nie.
Ek voel dat as mens kyk na die foto's en kyk hoe die voertuig se kajuit (safety cell) nog heel in vorm is en nie mee gegee het en oop gebars het nie, is die rede dat die insittendes so seer gekry het bloot toe te skryf aan ignorance. Die airbags het nie afgegaan nie want die voertuig het gerol en nie n impak van voor gehad nie en tweedens was die saftebelts nie gebruik nie wat deel maak van die airbags se werking.
SRS op airbags = Supplementery Restraining Systems = Saftey belt korrek gedra sal airbags laat deploy en dit sal help om jou beserings te verminder.
No belts = no Saftey systems working.
Saftey belts is daar om jou in jou stoel te help hou in n ongeluk om jou beserings te verminder. Hierso het hulle gele vir 3 ure voordat hulp op gedaag het. Ek is van mening dit is nalatigheid van die insittendes en veral die bestuurder om nie te verseker dat almal veilig vas was nie.
Ek gooi nie klippe nie, ek wil net he mens moet begin dink oor die oorsake en invloede wat die ongeluk vererger het. Ook is die pad bekend vir sy "tricky" dele en mens moet dan juis versigtiger wees en meer so as jy sleep.
So voor die kar die skuld kry, kyk na die operator en hoe die voertuig geoperate is. Dan sal jy kan sien dat n voertuig kan net soveel liable wees in ontwerp vir n ongeluk.
Maar dit is maar net my Mening.
Ek kritiseer niemand nie, maar hoe korter die sleepwa se aframe is agter n voertuig hoe meer geneig is die trailer om onstabiel te sleep. Ek vermoed die trailer het dalk getwitch agter die Fortuner in die sagte grond, en dit het die voertuig ge unsettle. Ook as mens kyk na die fotos wil dit voorkom dat die meeste van die gewig op die dakrak was oor die agter as gelaai. Dit sal maak dat enige voertuig begin onstabiel raak op n grond pad as die agter as die meeste gewig dra en die neus lig word agv al die gewig.
Hierdie ongeluk is nie die Fortuner se skuld nie. Dit is die operator se fout gewees.
So foute hierso wat gehelp het om aanleiding te gee tot die ongeluk se graad van ergheid is:
Light duty 5 voet trailer met stywe bande en 13" duim wiele. Die trailers is gebou vir n wye reeks aan wendings, maar as mens lang afstande grond paaie wil sleep, sit dieselfde bande op jou sleepwa as wat jou voertuig op het. Dit maak die trailer baie beter sleep en ook baie gemakliker hanteer op n grondpad. Hierdie wa se suspension travel en cussioning is basies nul, so as hy iets tref voel die sleep voertuig dit ook en sal die voertuig kan unsettle.
Trailer se a frame is te kort om eintlik deur so groot voertuig gesleep te word tensy dit oor kort afstande is en dan op stabiele opervlaktes soos teer.
EK vermoed ook dat die bandruk op al 6 bande nie korrek was nie en ook dat die centre diff lock nooit gesluit was op die grond pad nie. Spoed lyk nie asof dit die groot oorsaak hierso is nie, en die voertuig se ontwerp is ook nie die oorsaak nie.
Ek voel dat as mens kyk na die foto's en kyk hoe die voertuig se kajuit (safety cell) nog heel in vorm is en nie mee gegee het en oop gebars het nie, is die rede dat die insittendes so seer gekry het bloot toe te skryf aan ignorance. Die airbags het nie afgegaan nie want die voertuig het gerol en nie n impak van voor gehad nie en tweedens was die saftebelts nie gebruik nie wat deel maak van die airbags se werking.
SRS op airbags = Supplementery Restraining Systems = Saftey belt korrek gedra sal airbags laat deploy en dit sal help om jou beserings te verminder.
No belts = no Saftey systems working.
Saftey belts is daar om jou in jou stoel te help hou in n ongeluk om jou beserings te verminder. Hierso het hulle gele vir 3 ure voordat hulp op gedaag het. Ek is van mening dit is nalatigheid van die insittendes en veral die bestuurder om nie te verseker dat almal veilig vas was nie.
Ek gooi nie klippe nie, ek wil net he mens moet begin dink oor die oorsake en invloede wat die ongeluk vererger het. Ook is die pad bekend vir sy "tricky" dele en mens moet dan juis versigtiger wees en meer so as jy sleep.
So voor die kar die skuld kry, kyk na die operator en hoe die voertuig geoperate is. Dan sal jy kan sien dat n voertuig kan net soveel liable wees in ontwerp vir n ongeluk.
Maar dit is maar net my Mening.
Johan Marais
- Petou
- High Range 4WD
- Posts: 64
- Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:52 am
- Town: Brackenfell
- Vehicle: Fortuner 4.0 V6
- Real Name: Petrus
- Location: Wes Kaap
Re: forum member rolls his Fortuner while on tour
Thanx Johan.Jou opsomming het my alweer n ding of twee geleer.FEITE
Snorkel,chip,burnco front bumper
- ThysdJ
- Moderator
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- Location: Brackenfell
- Contact:
Re: forum member rolls his Fortuner while on tour
It is never nice to hear and see these things. But and accident is just that, an accident. Lots of factors might have contributed to this accident, but speculation and pointing fingers is not helping the healing process.
Let this be a lesson to all of us when we take on the dirt roads, with our heavily (over)loaded vehicles. Especially if we have our most precious posessions (our family and kids) on board.
I wish them all a speedy and complete recovery.
Let this be a lesson to all of us when we take on the dirt roads, with our heavily (over)loaded vehicles. Especially if we have our most precious posessions (our family and kids) on board.
I wish them all a speedy and complete recovery.
Thys de Jager
CEO and Refreshments Manager at Team Offroad.
2010 Hilux 3.0 D4D D/C 4x4 with GOMAD "Brood" Canopy. Tripod.
1997 Jeep Wrangler TJ 4.0 Sport. The original SFA. AGA... Gooi kole
email: thys@teamoffroad.co.za
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CEO and Refreshments Manager at Team Offroad.
2010 Hilux 3.0 D4D D/C 4x4 with GOMAD "Brood" Canopy. Tripod.
1997 Jeep Wrangler TJ 4.0 Sport. The original SFA. AGA... Gooi kole
email: thys@teamoffroad.co.za
Like Team Offroad on Facebook...
- Big D
- LR 4WD Full Lockers
- Posts: 506
- Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 12:42 pm
- Town: Pretoria
- Vehicle: SFA Hilux 2.2 BFi
- Real Name: Deon
Re: forum member rolls his Fortuner while on tour
Wow! Johan, you can tell all that by looking at the pictures? Even Tyre presures?
This is an Accident! No one knows what happend. Dont blame the vehicle or the driver. Have a bit of sympathy! Dont you think the Driver feels bad already as it is.
Johan if you have tips on safer driving with a trailer or what to look for when buying a trailer, please create a new post. We would all appreciate it. I surely would. But to add "salt to the wounds" does not help.
I dont think the purpose of the post was to point fingers but for best wishes!
This is an Accident! No one knows what happend. Dont blame the vehicle or the driver. Have a bit of sympathy! Dont you think the Driver feels bad already as it is.
Johan if you have tips on safer driving with a trailer or what to look for when buying a trailer, please create a new post. We would all appreciate it. I surely would. But to add "salt to the wounds" does not help.
I dont think the purpose of the post was to point fingers but for best wishes!
'94 lux, 3rz, Dual Tcases, 4.7, Lifted, Locked, 33"
"My worse fear is when i DIE, my wife will sell my car for what I told her I spent on it..."
Having a 12 second Honda is just like coming out of the closet; You're going to surprise a bunch of people, but in the end you're still gay.
"My worse fear is when i DIE, my wife will sell my car for what I told her I spent on it..."
Having a 12 second Honda is just like coming out of the closet; You're going to surprise a bunch of people, but in the end you're still gay.
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- Monster Truck
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- Town: Cape Town
- Vehicle: Honda Jazz
- Real Name: Bretton
- Location: Brackenfell
Re: forum member rolls his Fortuner while on tour
Wishing and praying that all those injured in this accident will have a speedy and complete recovery. Being involved in an accident, big or small, is really terrifying. I learnt first hand that accidents happen which are totally out of your control! I had not a millisecond to react to the buck that jump in front of the wife's Honda earlier this year, before I knew what was going on it was all over... our accident could easily have been so much worse, thank God is wasn't! So let's not point fingers and over analyse this but rather support these people the best way we each can!
You guys are in my thoughts and prayer! God bless!
You guys are in my thoughts and prayer! God bless!
- arnize2
- LR 4WD Full Lockers
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- Real Name: Arno
- Location: Malmesbury
Re: forum member rolls his Fortuner while on tour
Uit enige ONGELUK (want dit is wat dit was) is daar iets te leer. Iemand anders kan dalk iets raaksien wat jy miskyk en om dit dan uit te wys, kan ongelukke in die toekoms voorkom. Ek dink nie een van ons op hierdie forum is so ongevoelig om iemand te probeer te reg wys na so 'n traumatiese ervaring nie. Kom ons aanvaar mekaar se goeie bedoelings, sonder om die kwaad te soek in 'n ander se woorde.
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- High Range 2WD
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Re: forum member rolls his Fortuner while on tour
Please note:
We received complaints that some comments on this thread are insensitive. Please dont speculate on how the accident happened or how it could have been avoided. If your post does not add value to the situation, it will be deleted.
The Admin team
We received complaints that some comments on this thread are insensitive. Please dont speculate on how the accident happened or how it could have been avoided. If your post does not add value to the situation, it will be deleted.
The Admin team