Recovery strap rating, bridal ?

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Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:10 pm

I have been thinking about this after a discussion with Heinrich..... :wink2:

What is the correct rating of a recovery bridal ?

Lets say ie. I have a 10 Ton kinetic rope / strap

Using a bridal attached to my vehicle recovering another. What should he rating be?

Should the rating be more than the strap? or less. If less by how much?
What would you rather have break? (kinetic or bridal or shackles?)
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Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:16 pm

According to me it has to be the same rating at least. The load on the bridal rope/strap is still the same but the load on the recovery points on the vehicle are now less as they are divided by two
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Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:21 pm

CasKru wrote:According to me it has to be the same rating at least. The load on the bridal rope/strap is still the same but the load on the recovery points on the vehicle are now less as they are divided by two
Tx Cassie :thumbup:

With the bridal being in a "V" shape, as per attached pic, would the rope's strength not be more? I am just thinking if you double fold a rope is the strength not double / more?

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Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:28 pm

OOOOMS wrote:
CasKru wrote:According to me it has to be the same rating at least. The load on the bridal rope/strap is still the same but the load on the recovery points on the vehicle are now less as they are divided by two
Tx Cassie :thumbup:

With the bridal being in a "V" shape, as per attached pic, would the rope's strength not be more? I am just thinking if you double fold a rope is the strength not double / more?
You have a point. You share the load between the two legs of the V. But if the rating of the bridal is 8ton, it is supposed to only carry +- 4 tons per leg of the bridal according if I have to guess
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Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:36 pm

Hence my question :wink2:

What is the ideal rating when using a 10 Ton recovery strap?

Another question.....sorry :!:
Would it make a difference using a 10 Ton kinetic or pull strap?

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Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:43 pm

Let's assume the bridal's breaking strength is 10 ton - straight.

What would the breaking strength be is it was folded in a 'V' ?

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Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:19 pm

http://www.crystalcoastcordage.com/safety.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
ROPE SLINGS. Small angles increase rope stress. Allow for sling angles. The breaking strength of rope is based on direct pull along a single length of rope. When slings, using two or more legs to carry the load, are properly employed, the rope's safe working load is substantially increased. However, the load factor on each leg of the sling is greatly increased as the sling angle becomes smaller. Therefore, the use of slings requires certain precautions as well as a knowledge of safe working loads permissible. For best results, sling angles should never be more than 90 degrees - rarely less than 45 degrees.

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Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:30 pm

Some interesting reading:

http://www.osha.gov/dsg/guidance/slings ... tml#table7" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:36 pm

Yesterday I again saw what a huge impact the angle at which a recovery strap is used between two vehicles will impact on its dynamics.

Getting to the question. And for my example we will use only angles of 90 or 45 Degrees. With a pulling strain of 8 tons on a level surface.

If the strain is 8 tons Cassie is correct, the shackles and recovery points are each holding 4 tons in weight. But dependant on how the shackles are bearing against the recovery points, it can actually be 4 tons of leverage as well, meaning the 4 tons is not equally spread through that point. (Why do some shackles bend?).

The 2 "legs" of the bridal is each holding 4 tons. BUT - the point where the recovery rope/strap connects with the bridal your strain is 8 tons. So you will be overstraining a 6 ton strap.

It is a brilliant question, what do you want failing?
1. Vehicle Chassis
2. Recovery points/bolts
3. Shackles
4. Bridal
5. Recovery strap/rope
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Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:46 pm

That makes sense Heinrich tx! So now for another question........

Now most shackles used are rated 3.6 and 4.75 Ton.

I very seldom see the bridal being used when a stuck vehicle is being recovered...... like in the pic above?

Mostly a single recovery point with a bow shackle attached to a rope.

So now the recovery is taking place, what will break first? the 4.6 - 4.7 shackle or the 10 Ton rope? My logic tells me the shackle....or am I wrong? Usage of a lanyard is seldom seen, why?

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Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:53 pm

Will the shackles (vehicle x 2) and bridal / rope x 1 not always be the weak point?

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Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:59 pm

ATH wrote:Will the shackles (vehicle x 2) and bridal / rope x 1 not always be the weak point?
Yip that is the way I understand it :thumbup:

Hence the shackles are the most dangerous flying objects, not so?

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Sun Aug 19, 2012 11:44 pm

so after all is said & done can u use a higher rated shackle :?: :?:

do they rise per size .higher rated bigger unit :?:

ok 4.7= :?: is x 2or where am i going with this :?: :?: should i be :oops: :oops: for asking :?:

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ROOFER wrote:so after all is said & done can u use a higher rated shackle :?: :?:

do they rise per size .higher rated bigger unit :?: Generally speaking yes :thumbup:

ok 4.7= :?: is x 2or where am i going with this :?: :?: should i be :oops: :oops: for asking :?:
Yes, is used in a 'V' as seen in pic in my heading, the way I understand it. If you use x2 4.7 Ton shackles effectively the weight distribution is halved ie. divided by two? I think that's the way I understand it :wink2:

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Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:58 am

Haven't read this all in depth and haven't looked at the links (time problem), but as I see it ..... the two legs of the bridal will divide the weight between them, pretty much ½ - ½ but the point of the 'V' will carry the full load. If one loops the bridal through the shackle on the rope to create a half-hitch knot, the strain at the point of the 'V' is dramatically reduced but there is no more movement of the bridle through the shackle. This means that if the angle of the vehicle being recovered changes (will almost certainly happen every time) or the direction of the towing vehicle is altered (will also happen often), the full load will be transferred to the furthest leg of the bridle and corresponding recovery point. Without the half-hitch the full load is on the point of the 'V' so the bridle will still carry the full load either way, but without the knot the load remains spread over two recovery points. That's where the benefit is IMO

Personally I would like the shackles on the bridle / rec. point to be the weakest link because if that fails the bridle will dissipate most of the kinetic energy stored in itself and the rope thereby minimizing any back-lash (no flying objects).
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:27 am

OOOOMS wrote:Hence my question :wink2:

What is the ideal rating when using a 10 Ton recovery strap?

Another question.....sorry :!:
Would it make a difference using a 10 Ton kinetic or pull strap?
For sure it would. The rating on the strap is the load it can recover. But with a kinetic rope/strap you easily double the stress on the recovery points momentarily.

Personally I would prefer the rope/strap to fail as this would do the least damage either way. When you have a solid projectile it could be disastrous.

According to me the minimum equipment needed for a recovery to do it safe:
1) Pull / snatch strap / rope or winch
2) Rated recovery points with rated bow shackles where needed
3) Lanyard each side
4) Safety blanket especially when winching

In my personal opinion, a snatch recovery is by fat the most effective but also by far the most dangerous.
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:32 am

If the bridal used in this attached pic was rated @ 10 Ton.

What would the breaking strength be at point A and B?
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:04 am

Oooms
i see where you are getting at with a and B
however in a rigging application you will be able to rig 20 tons as per the sketch

in a snatch application you will be able to do 10 tons

from my experience (jip i do have a lot off experience in recovery)
equipment is not the problem all of us (most) have good quality recovery equipment
they unfortunately FAIL because we use them wrong, :surrender:
AND we practise driving skills, pitching tents, and and BUT never practise recovery

we should ? go practise recovery !!
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:47 am

blom wrote:equipment is not the problem all of us (most) have good quality recovery equipment
they unfortunately FAIL because we use them wrong, :surrender:
AND we practise driving skills, pitching tents, and and BUT never practise recovery

we should ? go practise recovery !!
I agree! :thumbup: :thumbup:

Ideally you want to move away from using shackles all together. A chain is as strong as its weakest link. Less links in the chain = less possible points of failure. Then, if everything is rated, from straps, ropes, recoverypoints, etc etc then you can calculate where the chain will fail, therefore you can apply counter measures, to prevent injury or damage.

If possible, you always want the soft stuff to break, not the hard stuff.

Snathch/kinetic recoveries is a last resort. Always. You'll be amazed what you can do with a spade and a little bit of deflation.
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:50 am

Very interesting topic....
OOOOMS wrote:.... Usage of a lanyard is seldom seen, why?
I can easily answer this - To do a recovery "properly" takes time. Gotto unpack everything!
It's easier just to get the towrope out and quickly pop it over the tow-bar. (This is an just example I've seen many times on Youtube.)
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:34 am

I agree with Thys and with Cassie. You do not want the hard stuff breaking.

Andy, you cannot really assume that when the shackle breaks it will stay in one piece and remain attached to the vehicle or the bridal. The shackle is made up of two parts, and in breaking you will very likely have it fly on its own.

I'd rather have the bridal break. If you then have the strap tethered as you should, it will maybe just dent a vehicle.

On the weekend I had the opportunity to see 42 vehicles attach a tow strap using their own techniques. Interesting in seeing the various ways, and you are right Blom, many do not really know how to use their good quality equipment. Interesting to see some people actually go looking for a place to attach the strap, not being 100% certain where it is.

Even fewer people understood the dynamics of what would happen when they used an "angled" pull. Meaning, the strap on the towed vehicle is attached on the right front, and they attach the strap to the left rear point of their vehicles.

While working in earthmoving I attended one basic lifting/lashing course, there I realised how wrong I was using my equipment in the past. It is one reason why I rather get involved with recoveries when I am around them. I'd love to learn more on the topic.
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:46 pm

Most commercial Shackles have a factor safety built into the rating. For example a 3,25T Bow shackle would have a 5:1 Factor of safety built into it (This is required by law) So 3,25 x 5 = 16,25 Tons Minimum Breaking!!!!
Most of the equipment we use for recovery originates from the "lifting" side of rigging. Where the factor of safety is literally a life or death matter.
So most steel lifting items have a factor of safety of 5:1...(as long as they are rated)
Most Textiles have a factor of safety of 7:1 but sometimes 10:1!!
So a Endless Round Sling (we call it a bridal) that is rated at 2 tons (For lifting) (usually green in color) should have a minimum breaking strength of 14 Tons!!
When we use a Endless Round Sling in a basket configuration, the W.L.L. (working load limit) is double. Example: A 2 ton sling will be able to carry 4 tons! and then add the F.O.S. (factor of safety)....28 Tons minimum breaking!!

Although when we use an Endless Round Sling as a bridal the angle between the two legs is almost 90' on some short bridals.... (the longer the better) so we do not really benefit from the "Basket configuration".
At 90' you do not gain any extra strength.(in fact you may loose strength)
If your bridals are longer...so that that angle is reduced you will benifet from increased strength. (My shortest bridal is 3 meters)
See this table..
http://www.liftlash.co.za/sites/default ... proof2.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:03 pm

Thanks for that info Robert. Very interesting! :thumbup:
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:47 pm

Very interesting topic...... :thumbup: :thumbup:

Now if you use 2 bridals in a "V" shape is that stronger than having 1 bridle with the sharp angle in the "V"

Using 2 bridals of a 2 ton rating in the "V" each bridal will give you 2800kgs according to the SecureLoad table.......

So IMO its best to use 1 bridal per side and form the "V" using a shackle...... :think:
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:50 pm

That would be ideal. As in that case if one of the legs of the V breaks, the second leg will still be secured
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:01 pm

MOFASA wrote:Very interesting topic...... :thumbup: :thumbup:

Now if you use 2 bridals in a "V" shape is that stronger than having 1 bridle with the sharp angle in the "V"

Using 2 bridals of a 2 ton rating in the "V" each bridal will give you 2800kgs according to the SecureLoad table.......

So IMO its best to use 1 bridal per side and form the "V" using a shackle...... :think:
Please explain with a picture where you want to put this shackle? :silent:

Doubling up on the bridle is not really necessary.
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:32 pm

ThysdJ wrote:Please explain with a picture where you want to put this shackle? :silent:

Doubling up on the bridle is not really necessary.
The black line is the vehicle bumber.
The blue and green would be independent slings to make up the single bridle connected together at the Red tow line with a shackle to form the "V"

Does that explain better??
CasKru wrote:That would be ideal. As in that case if one of the legs of the V breaks, the second leg will still be secured
Thats another bonus of doing it that way..... :thumbup:
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:37 pm

Thys made a good comment earlier. Make your connections as "soft" as possible.

I'd prefer the following:

A single bridal connected to the vehicle, and the tow strap fed through the eye of the recovery strap. This will allow the bridal to move inside the strap and will allow for adjustments in angle.
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:40 pm

That is how I understood it in the first place, Johno. I would suggest that you dont do that. Never connect slings/straps/ropes with a shackle, unless you want to cause lots of damage. :shock2: :shock2:

Use only 1 bridle it is more than sufficient. :thumbup:
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:43 pm

ThysdJ wrote:That is how I understood it in the first place, Johno. I would suggest that you dont do that. Never connect slings/straps/ropes with a shackle, unless you want to cause lots of damage. :shock2: :shock2:

Use only 1 bridle it is more than sufficient. :thumbup:
If you have an angle adjustment in this one you will place all the strain on one leg of the bridal. And few recoveries are at perfect angles...... No recoveries are at perfect angles.
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:49 pm

Valid point Heinrich I wasnt even thinking of that. And in doing so you are also putting all the strain on one side of the chassis. With enough force you could bend it.
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:56 pm

ThysdJ wrote:That is how I understood it in the first place, Johno. I would suggest that you dont do that. Never connect slings/straps/ropes with a shackle, unless you want to cause lots of damage. :shock2: :shock2:

Use only 1 bridle it is more than sufficient. :thumbup:
:thumbup: :thumbup:
Traveler wrote:
If you have an angle adjustment in this one you will place all the strain on one leg of the bridal. And few recoveries are at perfect angles...... No recoveries are at perfect angles.
Aaaaahhhhh ok now i get it...... Ok thought my idea was good.....
Shows i still have lots to learn, and who better to learn from then the guys that have been there done it...... :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:57 pm

Have you fitted recovery points to Yoda yet?
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Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:15 am

All valid points...

Even with the sliding link on the bridal at a non-perfect angle and both "legs'" taking load, the strain on each leg would be different due to the different angles as Robert eluded to.

So I agree that one shouldn't count on the basket config halving the load.
Regardless of the bridal strength at whatever angle, the lanyard should always be on the tow/snatch strap IMO so that the snatch strap won't whiplash; the bridal will still be tied to the schackles on either/both ends, whether the bridal or the tow/snatch strap fails.

When using a winch the bridal should go onto the snatch block & normal procedure for the winch cable should apply i.e blanket over the cable.

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Kaspaas
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Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:45 pm

OOOOMS wrote:
ROOFER wrote:so after all is said & done can u use a higher rated shackle :?: :?:

do they rise per size .higher rated bigger unit :?: Generally speaking yes :thumbup:

ok 4.7= :?: is x 2or where am i going with this :?: :?: should i be :oops: :oops: for asking :?:
Yes, is used in a 'V' as seen in pic in my heading, the way I understand it. If you use x2 4.7 Ton shackles effectively the weight distribution is halved ie. divided by two? I think that's the way I understand it :wink2:

Miskien help hierdie:

Image
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Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:53 pm

Interessant Kobus, soos ek nou verstaan hoe kleiner die angle hoe meer die trek krag? Korrek?

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Stef
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Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:24 pm

OOOOMS wrote:Interessant Kobus, soos ek nou verstaan hoe kleiner die angle hoe meer die trek krag? Korrek?
Dis hoe ek dit het en wat ek hierbo ook na verwys het...Cos90deg is nul so die krag waarmee jy winch en wat jy op die vrag sit is dieselfde.

Dieselfde beginsel geld vir die bridal, maw as hy kort genoeg is om 'n 90 grade hoek te vorm in die middel, halveer jy nie die las nie ... ;-) en dan natuurlik anders om ook, hoe nader die hoek aan 0 grade hoe sterker want Cos 0 = 1, dis hoe 'n block & tackle werk (daai tou modelle :mrgreen: )

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Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:30 pm

MOFASA wrote:
ThysdJ wrote:Please explain with a picture where you want to put this shackle? :silent:

Doubling up on the bridle is not really necessary.
The black line is the vehicle bumber.
The blue and green would be independent slings to make up the single bridle connected together at the Red tow line with a shackle to form the "V"

Does that explain better??
CasKru wrote:That would be ideal. As in that case if one of the legs of the V breaks, the second leg will still be secured
Thats another bonus of doing it that way..... :thumbup:

Doing it this way will not allow for equal loading on each point attached to the bumper....unless the recovery is done in a exact straight line.
The best way is a single bridle...as long as possible... fed through the eye of the snatch strap/rope.
If you really want to increase the safety...you can choke each of the ends of the recovery bridal with additional safety slings....
Image

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Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:37 pm

OOOOMS wrote:Interessant Kobus, soos ek nou verstaan hoe kleiner die angle hoe meer die trek krag? Korrek?
Jip! Dis net so Mark.


100% korrek Stef! :thumbup:

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Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:56 pm

Ours we make rated at 12 000kg. :thumbup:

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Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:22 pm

4x4megaworldpta wrote:Ours we make rated at 12 000kg. :thumbup:
Louis, hoe lank is hy ?

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Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:23 am

The Bridal is 2.5m.

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Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:27 am

4x4megaworldpta wrote:The Bridal is 2.5m.
Tx, ek het self vanoggend gemeet en gedink 2.0m bridal is te kort :thumbup:

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