SUN POWER (TOTALLY OFF THE GRID)

[ink]

I saw a post here of sun power and what the people do to save on electricity.

I work for Mpumelanga Power Electronics, we specialize in power electronics, VSD's, soft starters, ect and do in house electronic designs.

The owner last year build a holiday home at Marloth and for the munusipality to provide electricity at his home would take 6 months. We then designed a 60 Amp inverter that is running with a batery pack that is charged via solar panels. Now this is no new technology but the smart/nice thing here is that he runs the following from this inverter:
2x 12000btu Air conditioners.
Pool Pump.
All the lights in and outside the house.
Washing Machiene.
Tumble dryer.
Dish washer.
TV,DCTV Decoder.
Whifes hair dryer ect.
Geysers and stove runs with gas.
This system is totally off the grid, a stand alone unit that powers the whole house. Normal inverters usually cant handle normal air conditioners start up peak, this one does.
We also have 15 amp units running in trains coatches to power their air cons.

Although this systems usally are expensive we currently bussy with a cost reduction on the whole system to make it more affordable for end users.

Our range will consist of a 15Amp, 30Amp and 60Amp units and other ranges will be special orders.

Any quarries or quote requests can be mailed to :
johan@mppowerelectronics.co.za
013 246 2555

Just thaughed I'll share this with you all, Nice to be off the grid at your house.

[Huismoeles]

That's the way to go

Verkoop julle die helle paket son panel inverter battery alles

Waarna prys gewys kyk jy vir 15 of 30amps

[grobbepj]

Sounds real interesting.... some ballpark cost numbers will be nice

[JamesC]

I do the same for customers. You can now do a household for about R150k if you use top-end parts like 80A outbacks, victron and lorentz panels...

Here is an example of what I have done...

[ForYota]

Sorry off topic here,

But I see new challenges for thiefs, wont be long before electric fences will be mounted below the roofs

[ink]

yes the whole package , will follow with correct price list

[ink]

I do the same for customers. You can now do a household for about R150k if you use top-end parts like 80A outbacks, victron and lorentz panels...

Here is an example of what I have done...

Is the little blue boks the inverter? and how much Amp unit is it? What Can you run from a unit like this?

[JamesC]

Yip, 50A, 5KVA can handle up to 10kva spike. I run a complete household, including jacuzzi, garage doors, alarm system, normal household like fridges, freezers, washing machine, microwave, moerse plasma screen etc...this particular system has been running for three years now without a moment's trouble - it is ona game farm with NO ESKOM anywhere in site...

[KOBUSL]

Veeeeeery nice system Jacques. Victron and Outback, the dream system. As I mentioned, the $$$$$ is a bit steep. My future plans also include a huge battery bank for total independance from Escpower. If you used a hybrid grid tied inverter, sometime in the future you should be able to make some money from your utility. I take it this house is in the sticks, so nothing to feed into.

[ink]

Ok kom ek kyk of ons designers n goetkoper sessteem kan ontwikkel .
Sal julle op hoogte hou.

[KOBUSL]

Ok kom ek kyk of ons designers n goetkoper sessteem kan ontwikkel .
Sal julle op hoogte hou.

[ismail]

R30/w thats not bad Jaques, I'm used to around R36/w here in the Cape

[grobbepj]

Dit raak al amper "feasible". Sal so n sisttem kan terugbetaal. Hoe gereeld moet die batterye vervang word en watter koste maak dit op??

[JamesC]

Die batterye bly die swak skakel in die stelsel en wat tipies gebeur is die ouens "under spec" om die sale te maak met die gevolg dat die batterye nie lank hou nie. As jy jou deep cycles reg hanteer, reg laai en ontlaai (slegs tot op 50% van kapasiteit) en jy spandeer geld op geoeie batterye kan jy 8-10 jaar se werksverrigting verwag.

As jy enige iets tussen R32-R36/watt spandeer, is jy op die regte track want dit beteken jy koop kwaliteit.

Onthou, hierdie is 'n langtermyn belegging en ek kan julle VERSEKER dat 'n R8/watt panel en 'n cheap China import oor 10 jaar van nou af lankal nie meer die werk gaan doen nie...maar nou ja, sien dit oor en oor en tot vervelens toe dat die ouens vir die cheap imports gaan...Vader Tyd sal leer en hy het geen genade nie.

[JamesC]

Die probleem met die ding is nie die installasie nie maar wel hoe om SINVOL jou stelsel te spec...dit bly die krisis en die ouens maak hulle somme heeltemal verkeerd en uiteindelik eindig hulle ALTYD te kort...

Aangeheg, vir die wat belangstel, 'n spreadsheet om jou te help. Dit het my baie tyd, en duur lesse gevat om die ding saam te stel.

Hopelik sal dit jou help. Sorry, die forum wil nie XLSM oplaai nie.

As jy dit soek, laat weet en ek stuur dit vir jou: james@wingshooting.co.za

[kfxnando]

Just adding my 2c worth

for hot water self have done the solar geyser thing 200l
water temperature up to 84*C
no pipes, no gas
hot water for shower for 4 days if raining constantly

as for the aircon
theinverter aircon are already on the market, about double the price of the normal aircon, and prices are set to come down, Rand permitting

Little windmills also great for overcast days

[Family_Dog]

James, email sent...

-F_D

[Mud Dog]

Just did a rough calculation taking my average consumption - it would probably only pay itself off in somewhere between 9 and 11 yrs with only one battery replacement in that period.

However, take into account inflation and the rising energy costs, it might even be less than that.

[louis fourie]

James - e-mail sent as well

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

[ismail]

Basically from my experience for the average household the payback period is around 8 years plus but for commercial use the payback is around 5 years still bit pricey for the average household but for commercial property it fits make sense. Tax write offs etc also taken into account

[ismail]

Forgot to mention for a grid tired system on a commercial property.

[JamesC]

Ja, grid-tied would be the way to go for normal households and commercial properties. However, that legislation is not in place yet and although a lot of talk and an equal amount of bullsh*t claims, it is not in place yet - meaning you cannot sell your AC back into the grid if not using it.

Best system there at the moment seems to be the Sonnyboy SMA - a US designed system. You get the Island model (off the grid, which would be there answer to for example Victron - which happens to be bidirectional) or you get the Grid-tied solution.

Payback period would be about 5-7 years taking into account constant rise in energy costs, but it would not be a clever exercise if you did not put your savings towards saving for your next battery pack. The sum is not all that simple as some are making it.

Nevertheless, in the LONG TERM, provided you started out with TOP QUALITY, you will smile. I have a friend who has been running his farm on solar for 35 years now...only replacing batteries.

[ChrisF]

Ja, grid-tied would be the way to go for normal households and commercial properties. However, that legislation is not in place yet and although a lot of talk and an equal amount of bullsh*t claims, it is not in place yet - meaning you cannot sell your AC back into the grid if not using it.Best system there at the moment seems to be the Sonnyboy SMA - a US designed system. You get the Island model (off the grid, which would be there answer to for example Victron - which happens to be bidirectional) or you get the Grid-tied solution.

Payback period would be about 5-7 years taking into account constant rise in energy costs, but it would not be a clever exercise if you did not put your savings towards saving for your next battery pack. The sum is not all that simple as some are making it.

Nevertheless, in the LONG TERM, provided you started out with TOP QUALITY, you will smile. I have a friend who has been running his farm on solar for 35 years now...only replacing batteries.

in Stellenbosch we have it in WRITING that you MAY put power back into the grid - WITH the permission of the local municipality.

BUT, they wont pay for the units you put into the system.



thus the rules ARE CHANGING. :)

8 months back that would have been ILLEGAL.

now it is legal, but you dont get paid for the units you deliver.


the next step if for the local municipalities to wrap their minds arounf the new technology and to come up with a "buy back scheme" and rates for this ....



following this thread with great interest. Last time we did these calcs were mid 2013, at the time this still did not make financial sense ..... seems the playing field is changing.

But then, in our calcs we look at using GOOD batteries, and a correctly sized system to be truly of the grid - dan is dit verdomp duur !!

also look at the interest on the money you will use to pay this system up front, etc etc ,,,,, and this is NOT a straight forward calc.



STILL, very GOOD to see the technology evolving and it becoming gradually more affordable .... let's see where we are in 10 years time :)

[Mud Dog]

Funnily enough, I was chatting to someone about this some weeks ago - can't remember which country he was talking about, but think it was the UK. They have companies there that will rent your roof space from you - you get paid a set rental per panel which they are able to fit sun facing (south in the northern hemisphere), the installation is completely free of cost to you, and they pay you back an additional small percentage of what's fed back into the grid by the panels through a separate meter. You still get and pay your normal electricity account from your own meter, but with the monthly rental and percentage you get back, it more than covers your utilities. You actually make money out of it.

The beauty of this system is that you have no outlay, no batteries to be replaced and your returns are immediate. If after the contract period has expired (think he said 5 years), the installation will be removed if you no longer want to keep it going - if you keep it, it continues on a month to month basis indefinitely. All maintenance is done by the supply company.

Everybody wins!

[ChrisF]

Andy the "concept" only works when you can SELL the power to the municipality.

one other problem - our power is too CHEAP .... jip, the wind farms going up left right and centre are producing power at about 10% MORE than what we currently pay for our electricity, AND eskom wont pay this rate for those delivering it .... They are HOPING large comapnies will "buy" carbon points by subsidizing these wind farms .....


the MAIN PROBLEM is the inability of ESKOM to sit down with the role players and prospective investors to confirm the way forward ... THIS has been dragging on for years .... THIS lot may just be worse than NOW !!


once the regulations AND buy back protocols are in place the investors can get to work.



one of the NICE models is a townhouse complex - EVERY roof has the maximum number of solar panels, ALL the power goes back to a mini sub station on the grounds. THIS feeds each home in the complex, any excess power is sold to the municipality. When you do it at this scale the project becomes very "Affordable" ...

[kfxnando]

See that there are a few variables as to the length of pay back/recovery of money invested

however, there is something that we can't put a price on
the fact that if one is off the grid full or partially, one can still keep on living and enjoying our comforts while Eishcom fails

am usually an optimist
however me don't see Eishcom getting their ducks in a row
even when Madupi power station is complete, self am expecting many issues beyond just teething problems
the infrastructure is getting older, and more failures can be expected

JMO, to have power during the expected coming crisis is priceless

[ChrisF]

Fernando to be truly OFF the grid means you need to STORE 10 hours worth of sun to power everything during the long winter nights ..

DIT is waar daai duur batterye en inverters inkom ....



I have come close to doing a solar/deepcycle/LED lighting system. Would be a nice project. BUT, what to do for:
- cooking - GAS ... aint exactly cheap, AND we have had a couple of issues with gas supply in the Cape over the last couple of years, but it IS the only alternative if you truly want off the grid
- fridge and freezer ...
- tv - I have a mid sized UPS exclusively for the tv, was SHOCKED to see how quickly it drains.....



the hard reality is that the average working person spends most daylight hours away from home, and would need to store the bulk of the required electricity in batteries ....


again bringing us back to the urgent need for ESKOM to get a clear process in place for buying power back from users ...

[KOBUSL]

in Stellenbosch we have it in WRITING that you MAY put power back into the grid - WITH the permission of the local municipality.

BUT, they wont pay for the units you put into the system


Ek het plaaslike ( munisipale ) sparky gevra oor die kwessie ( of ek grid-tied kan gaan, newwermaaind om betaal te word ), hy kry nou nog, na 'n jaar, 'n totale neutrale ( wou se blank ) uitdrukking op sy gesig as ons mekaar iewers raakloop. Het nie 'n benul waarvan ek praat nie, en glo van dis onwettig. Terloops, ek het so maand of drie gelede van 'n Namibier verneem dat hulle wel by hulle vergoed word.