Dash cams

Post by **Mud Dog** » Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:01 am

Is the purchase of a unit really justifiable?

Is footage admissible as evidence in a court when it comes to "who's to blame" in an accident situation?

Can traffic offenders be prosecuted on the strength of video evidence submitted by the public (provided that the quality is good enough to positively identify the vehicle and possibly the driver as well)?

What other positives are there?

Most of the trail footage that I look at doesn't really do justice to the trail in terms of perspective, so most of the "wow factor" is lost. On the open road you're just mostly gonna look at endless stretches of road. I would imagine that you might only keep a tiny percentage of all the footage that you shoot, so where's the real benefits?

I would like one for the purposes of traffic offence prosecution (if it's admissible), but that alone doesn't justify it for me, particularly if you require a high-end unit for this.

What are your views / thoughts?

Post by **CasKru** » Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:30 am

The benefit is more regarding false claims towards you where the other party point fingers to you. The video will be proof that you are not the guilty party.

These units have settings where it will permanently save footage if it detects a "crash". You can then only view this footage and will not have to view all the footage to get what you are after.

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:40 am

false peace of mind mostly ....

I have one in each vehicle. Some incidents over the last few years.

1) contractor cuts me OFF ... at the robot I stop next to him and wind down the window ... "why did you do that?" "Wat moan jy? Daar was BAIE spasie ..." I point to the camera and say: "Let's see if your boss thinks there was a lot of space."

Turns out the EagleEye did NOT record that incident. 0kb file ... one of many .... need to re-format the card monthly. Have not had the 0kb issue since.

2) M class Merc from Paarl to Bellville on the N1, into the afternoon sun. This guy drove like a maniac - shooting past on the left abd then pushing in at the front .... One such move there was no space to push in and just pushed a car onto the gravel !! This happened right in front of me and I had to swerve for the stones being kicked up. Luck or skill, who knows, but either way guy pushed onto the gravel did not roll his car.

This idiot in the Merc did this another two time, and was three cars ahead of me when he turned off at Okavango ... in all his swerving and dangerous driving he literally made up two spots over 20 km.

Back to the dashcam - sun glared of the dash and I could not make out the number plate ....

The only reason I may still put it into the RAV - that little bit of peace of mind for the "opportunistic cops" on the long road ....

Knuppel · Post by **Knuppel** » Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:05 pm

I had dashcam when working in Ghana, there it is a must. White skin gets blamed for the incident no matter what, you have money and you MUST pay........if you can't prove otherwise.
I never lost a single bit of data.
It was always fun reviewing incidents.

I think the choice of dashcam is important.
The location is also important, you will need to review your footage often in the beginning to make sure you have chosen the right spot.
The way it is wired to the vehicle also critical, do not use the lighter socket supplied. 90% of failures and problems start right there at the lighter socket. Either get a different plug or have it hard wired into the lighter socket wires. Lighter sockets are notorious for having bad contact.

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:16 pm

Marius you clearly paid the school fees. :)

YES - make SURE it records !! Dont wait for the incident !!

YES - placement was my next issue !! Still is in the platkar ... the dash reflects a LOT of light and though the incident will be recorded well enough you often cant read the number plate ...

and gain, YES - make sure you have a DECENT power source. I wired mine into the sigaret lighter loom. At least I got 1 out of 3 .... thankfully that is a paas rate in des neww efirka ....

Post by **Mud Dog** » Thu Apr 07, 2016 2:46 pm

Thanks for the feedback so far - what I'm reading so far interprets more as I'd be wasting my money than getting a very helpful tool.

I have for some time considered that if SA road users (abusers specifically) were under 'threat' knowing that their reckless / illegal driving practises could potentially be recorded by any number of other motorists and that they could be facing the consequences, whether such abusers would be more inclined to obey the rules.

The flipside is that a car parked with a dash-cam inside invites a break in to steal the same.

No one has yet commented on the admissibility of such private footage for the purpose of prosecution of such road abusers. Anyone?

Die$eL · Post by **Die$eL** » Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:14 pm

I have a dashcam in my wife's car and one in my Tuna

As stated, when it counts for some reason the blerry things dont record.
Have to format the card frequently to ensure it does.

It does give a bit of peace of mind especially for when you meet "those" cops as mentioned.

I use it more for when i'm on track/skidpan etc. Format the card just before I go on and it records most of the stuff.

I always put it down to that I bought the cheaper ones. R700 Polaroid and R650 some other make...

Knuppel · Post by **Knuppel** » Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:54 pm

A decent dash cam does not cost less than R1500.
You will need HD recording ability otherwise its useless, cant reed number plate data.
Always record on its highest quality setting, you wont be sory.
Get one that can handle a 32gig class 10 SD card
Get a spare SD card, you want to record some of your journeys and download it later.
The Device records in a loop. So when the disk is full it overwrites the oldest data. I have found that depending on terrain and speed you can record on average about 4 hrs before it loops in full hd on a 32gig card. Dont get clever and buy SD cards that the device cannot use. 64gig cards normally dont work, but tecknology improves daily.
Play with your settings to see what suits you best. Some accident data is recorded when it detects a sudden acceleration or deceleration or if a certain G force is exceeded. You dont want the camera locking 5 minutes of data every time you hit a speed bump. That results in you having to format the card on a regular basis to get rid of the locked data that is now filling up your SD card.
A decent dashcam can still show a decent picture even by driving into direct sunlight.
Its not plug and play...... Or should I say you must plug and play otherwise you will not get the full benifit from the device

If you want to get an idea then watch the Russian dash cam videos on you tube. You will clearly see good and bad footage. Here is an example.........dont get addicted

The Russians are dashcam crazy!!!!

http://youtu.be/R15NKrGrb3c" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

.

dalkill · Post by **dalkill** » Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:07 pm

i had two incidents where i wish i had a dashcam.... both involved threats of small claims court before eventually getting my money a year later. But i had to put forth a case where i could prove there is no way i was in the wrong... including daily travel routines, next turnoff to work etc, etc.

schlep is i had to claim from my insurance, and I'm still paying for those incidents.

Post by **CasKru** » Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:08 pm

Before you buy... view this guys reviews as he has done a lot of them....
https://www.youtube.com/user/Techmoan" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **CasKru** » Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:14 pm

One thing one realises watching these Russian dashcam videos is that speed & impatience kills.

Also be extra weary at traffic lights

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Thu Apr 07, 2016 5:39 pm

This is a snap shot of the video I mentioned earlier.

EagleEye dashcam

Think the camera was set to maximum quality.

The problem with not being able to read the number plate relates to the dashboard reflecting back up onto the windscreen .... Need to mount it lower address this ... but then the screen pics up too much of the bonnet ....

100km/h and the chat in the right has to really break hard to avoid an accident. You really have to watch the full 20 odd minutes to truly appreciate the depths of stupidity of the merc driver !!

Without the glare/reflection - see the quality :

PLEASE NOTE - reducing the file size have resulted in a final pic markedly worse than the actual camera output !! Actually nice clean and crisp on the original video.

for TRAIL driving - get a GoPro type action cam. Mount it nice and LOW for max effect !

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:07 pm

Sadly dashcams are boring toys .... secretly we all hope to capture a you-tube sensation hit. But 99,9% of the time it shows a long stretch of road ahead ....

Even on a trail the classic dashcam view is boring -

Now get that action-cam mounted on the front number plate, and SEE the difference -

problem with dashcams are they are NOT desinged for such rugged use, nor have the battery life for such use. In a world of toys and more toys - dashcam for the boring stuff, and ACTION cam for the lekka stuff

Post by **Mud Dog** » Fri Apr 08, 2016 5:04 pm

Hear what you say. If I were to get a unit, it would have to be HD and good quality - I don't mind paying if it's going to be of real benefit. It would have to be able to handle action stuff, maybe some water here and there and would have to be versatile IRO mounting positions - dash, bull-bar, bike, bike helmet (and let's not forget a selfie stick

).

Anything besides Go-Pro that's worth looking at? (I've tentatively estimated a budget of between 2 and 3 K but can go more if warranted).

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Fri Apr 08, 2016 5:39 pm

Andy the key to the real action cams are the replaceable outer covers. The casing will get damaged at some point when recording real bush driving .....

Often people want extra batteries, as the action cams cant run of the sigarete lighter when mounted outside ...

so do get a brand that stocks some spares ....

You may just get some alternative stuff at the motorcycle shops.

One further thought - one BIG difference between action cam and dash cam : only the dashcam will start and stop with the ignition. Okay, maybe worth checking the newer action cams, but my older GoPro dont start and stop with the ignition.

Yet something else to consider - for some - may just be worth paying a bit more on your next Garmin, and get a GPS with a built in dashcam, and it starts and stops with the ignition.

Post by **Mud Dog** » Sat Apr 09, 2016 2:15 am

Something else to ask ..... what about video editing software? Does it come with the unit? The stuff I have is waaaaay outdated.

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Sat Apr 09, 2016 4:29 am

Andy uhm ja .... HOPING somebody has the definitive answer !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The software that comes with the EagleEye unit is for viewing it in a 3-way split unit - You see the actual dashcam footage, GPS type map showing where you were driving, and and then another section showing speed accelaration etc ...

I would literally pay for a short session on video editing !! So tired of chasing my tail with the video editing software. One package to "trim/edit" the footage. Another to convert it to DVD format - THIS is an absolute pain !! Yet another converter if you want to do the you-face-tube-book thing .... Nee magtag, erens moet daar n enkel pakket wees wat die hele proses kan hanteer ....

Die ironie is dat ek nogal heel handig is met foto editing, maar die video editing sit my ore aan ....

Ek het Sony Vega 9 something or other .... werk GOED vir videos wat ek met die Canon video camera neem. Maar dit sien nie die dashcam se file format nie .....

Dowe Koos · Post by **Dowe Koos** » Sat Apr 09, 2016 7:32 am

Hallo julle, van sagteware praat wat regtig werk en alles kan doen en dit is ook gratis, is DVDVideoSoft Free Studio en Format Factory. Ek gebruik dit al jare.

Die$eL · Post by **Die$eL** » Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:02 am

Microsoft offers free video editing software

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-za/windows/movie-maker" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It allows you to cut/trim vids, add images, add sound, change format etc.

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Sun May 15, 2016 11:41 am

en as jy Wynns Dash gebruik ... kyk tog dat daar nie sproei op die kamera se lens kom nie !!

PS - HOE kry mens daai "overspray" van die voor-ruit af ??? Hou net aan om al wyer te vryf, maar dit kom nie regtig af nie.

Thabogrobler · Post by **Thabogrobler** » Sun May 15, 2016 10:52 pm

ChrisF wrote:en as jy Wynns Dash gebruik ... kyk tog dat daar nie sproei op die kamera se lens kom nie !!

PS - HOE kry mens daai "overspray" van die voor-ruit af ??? Hou net aan om al wyer te vryf, maar dit kom nie regtig af nie.

'n Lekker seperige lappie, opgevolg met 'n paar keer se afvee met 'n skoon, uitgespoelde nat lap en dan mooi droog en blink vryf met koerant papier.

Post by **Mud Dog** » Mon May 16, 2016 2:25 am

You could also try cleaning benzine or xylene .....

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Mon May 16, 2016 6:46 am

klink vir my ek kort elbow-greese ....

Knuppel · Post by **Knuppel** » Mon May 16, 2016 10:34 am

Windowlene!

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Mon May 16, 2016 11:35 am

Knuppel wrote:Windowlene!

tried it ... 2 or 3 times.

should possibly try it again.

Post by **CasKru** » Mon May 16, 2016 11:48 am

Chris... weet nou nie of jy dit al probeer het nie maar was jou venster met seep en water en droog dan af met koerantpapier. Werk al jare vir my om hom squeeky clean te kry

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Mon May 16, 2016 2:13 pm

CasKru wrote:Chris... weet nou nie of jy dit al probeer het nie maar was jou venster met seep en water en droog dan af met koerantpapier. Werk al jare vir my om hom squeeky clean te kry

Sal so maak. Dankie

Dadz Toy · Post by **Dadz Toy** » Thu May 19, 2016 6:17 pm

I find my iPhone is more than capable of recording incidents from it's windscreen mounted cradle.

Post by **RodS** » Thu May 26, 2016 9:59 pm

I know I am a bit late for this party, but nonetheless:

1. ChrisF: I was equally baffled by this video editing business, in fact worse than you as I cannot even do Photoshop. I do not even own a camera. My wife however is a real hotshot with fancy lenses and a years course in Photoshop under her belt. Trying figure out what to do to produce a "show" of our trip to Northern Nam last year,I stumbled on this YouTube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKWae0ktU1E" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Some people are just natural teachers and this guy is one. It is in fact not a training video but a product review. Watchingthis, the scales fell from my eyes and I understood all about Story Boards, Time Lines, Sound tracks etc.
I sent of $32 via PayPal for the software, and within a month had produced a really professional record of our trip combining EagleEye Dashcam, Samsung Video footage, Pics from my wife's cameras, Route maps from Base Camp, Sound track music from a CD we bought in Windhoek, fancy titles etc. It forms a record of our trip which is unbeatable. You can save the final product in various different output formats.

2. I think the R1800 I spent on the Dashcam was worth it 10 times over. I am not interested in car accidents ( I take it off in town in case it attracts thieves). I am sure a GoPro mounted on your number plate will give you better pictures of the big rocks on last weekend's obstacle course. What the always on EagleEye gives me is the memory of the view FROM THE DRIVERS SEAT as I rounded that bend in the Hoarusib and found the Elephant in the road. It recorded our conversation before, our exclamations of surprise, and the growl of the Diesel in the soft sand. Watching it takes me back to this great trip in a way that nothing else could.

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Fri May 27, 2016 8:27 pm

Hi Rod. Thanks for the link, will certainly look into it.

I actually do use Sony software for video editing, with good success. My problems and frustrations starts when I want to save it for use on a CD player (not computer)....

Having both the Eagle Eye and the GoPro, I can confirm the sound and video quality of the GoPro is just far superior. BUT, with the Eagle Eye you always have the shot ... with the GoPro the darn thing is all too often off when you round that corner ....

My brain says I should fit the Eagle Eye to the RAV ... my hart just is not convinced with the quality of the footage I have gotton from the Eagle Eye thus far.

Want to borrow my friends Garmin dashcam and test it ....

I DO like the idea of a dashcam ....

kfxnando · Post by **kfxnando** » Tue Aug 23, 2016 2:58 pm

we had two
cant remember the brand
we paid R1600 each

IMO, not worth the money
unless one is very close to the car in front, the number plates are not clear
traffic lights at a distance, cant tell what color it was
sound was brilliant
it displayed location on map and speed and G-force
self not impressed

Post by **Mud Dog** » Tue Aug 23, 2016 6:38 pm

I still haven't bought a unit (it keeps getting put to the back of my mind as other things seem to take priority).
Funny that this thread is revived today .... I was just looking at the current Game specials and see that they have a Go-Pro Hero+ on offer for R3599. I don't even know if that's a good price, but I don't mind paying that and more for a decent unit that can serve as a dash cam, helmet / action cam if I want it to, fit on a selfie stick and do some under water stuff as well (not too deep, perhaps only 1 or 2 meters).

It must have decent video clarity, be able to charge and run off a 12V DC lighter socket as well as 220V AC, give a reasonable amount of recording time IRO both battery capacity and data volume. Then there's the video editing angle that needs to idiot friendly.

I just don't have the time to go and research all the different units and options ..... was hoping that someone here has the knowledge and experience to steer me in the right direction or at least narrow it down a little (interpret that as 'narrow it down a lot').

kfxnando · Post by **kfxnando** » Tue Aug 23, 2016 6:57 pm

The gopro is a much better option
However, due to its wide angle lens, will have the same thing as the cheap dash cameras, that number plate recognition, becomes difficult

The gopro, will be good money spent
Have an older unit, love it

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Wed Aug 24, 2016 5:17 pm

Andy as an "action cam" GoPro certainly is up there with the best. Decent video quality. Very good sound quality. And most importantly water and dust proof. AND when your unit does get scratched by a branch you can buy replacement covers.

Battery life is a bit of an issue ... Depending on the model type it may be up to a few hours. Certainly enough for a typical shoot, but will require recharges for a day or weekend event .... Larger batteries are available - but not suitable with all the water proof covers .... Still good enough that I have used a GoPro on its battery only for site inspections. Those sound recordings HAVE been very valuable !!

Down side
- it must be manually switched on ... (some of the later models can accept an ignition power source to do the switching)
- not intended for "loop" recording (not sure of the latest units ..)

"Dashcam" -
These are intended for the classic videos from the inside of a car.
Much cheaper than a GoPro.
has the GPS side window and shows additional info that a GoPro wont
loop recording, typically about a 9 hour loop. Also with the option to press a button to "save" a specific section from being over-ridden.
crappy small battery, not meant to be used away from the vehicle power source for more than a few minutes.
DO offer a "camera" function if you need to take still photos at an accident scene.
BUT, and this is a the BIG but - the video quality is not nearly in the leagae of a GoPro ! The last couple of clips all had some or other issue, to the point where I have not even bothered to re-fit the EagleEye in the Etios, nor have am I even considering mounting the EagleEye in the RAV. I DO want to borrow a friend's Garmin-dashcam to test its quality. I DO prefer the fully auto recording and loop function of the dashcam, but the quality must be better than an EagleEye to make it worth it.

SOFTWARE -
The EagleEye comes with its own software. Good for viewing only. For editing it only allows you to cut a single section and save it. You will need other software to combine these sections to make a video. I do enjoy my Sony Vega video editing software, though I am still looking for something to then export these videos for viewing on a DVD player (not computer, AVI, format).

so for now - GoPro is nice for trail videos, but due to the lack of GPS/speed data very limited as a "traffic dashcam". The EagleEye dashcam offers nice dashcam functionality, but the video quality is dissapointing.

kfxnando · Post by **kfxnando** » Wed Aug 24, 2016 6:55 pm

Could be off here
However, seem to remember on my gopro, there is an option, that when the memory is to to either record over the existing footage (loop) or to stop when memory is full, and I have a hero 2

Post by **Mud Dog** » Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:53 am

Thanks for the info ..... not sure what type of storage media is used with the GoPro, but if it's not solid state and maybe like an SD card, then surely one can carry spare cards and just switch cards when one is getting full.

A nice feature would also be high speed recording so that you can have slo-mo play-back ... or perhaps one can achieve this with editing software.

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Thu Aug 25, 2016 1:56 pm

Andy the GoPro uses standard cards, same as your cameras. So very easy to swop out.

The dashcams use the micro-SD card. So now you need an adaptor to read the information, or remove the camera to link it via cable to your PC.

Post by **Mud Dog** » Thu Aug 25, 2016 2:19 pm

Either way it's not a problem Chris, I have a multi card reader that I can hook up to either the PC or the TV via USB port. With the GoPro using a standard SD card as you say, it makes it a lot more convenient .... only one type of spare cards needed that can be used in the other cameras as well. It's a positive point.

kfxnando · Post by **kfxnando** » Thu Aug 25, 2016 2:57 pm

IMO
The only drawback of the GoPro , is the size of the files
And when one starts pushing up the number of frames per second, then the files get even bigger
Have on a few occasions when editing clips, filled up the hard drive on my laptop
Now a dedicated 1t external hardrive to store all the original clips, and that is halfway full
The other thing I have done is go for a lower quality settings, to have smaller files to work with
Even on a lower quality, is still of great quality

Another quick point
There are on the market, a range of GoPro imitation for a fraction if the cost
The accessories do fit the GoPro
Bough the Wife one December when we went away
The image quality does not come close to the proper gopro