4x4Direct lights up our world

Quality 4x4 Accessories. Buy online or at any of our 4 Branches.
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ChrisF
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Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:04 pm

Those that have followed the 12V lighting threads KNOW :

1) LED light strips provide lots of lighting, but when you diffuse it you loose most of the light ....

2) there are no 12V lights that look "standard" .... NO LONGER

3) LED downlighters do provide light, BUT it is too directional and is hardly practical for larger areas ..... NO LONGER


STOP THE PRESS !!!

4x4Direct changes all we thought we knew !!!!


4x4Direct now brings us lights that you power with 12V that looks like normal bulbs !! Think of a 12V bulb that can fit in a standard fitting (but powered by 12V not eskom). - http://www.4x4direct.co.za/led-house-li ... -p-165.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


but wait, there's more ....

4x4Direct now also brings us a wide angle LED downlighter. I dont have the specs, but here is what I have tested :

STANDARD old 12V downlighter - very direct light :
DSCN2284 (Small).JPG
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The photo was taken at a fixed distance from the door, with the LED a set distance from the door, and using a 7Ah battery. Using the exact same setup other lights were tested.

Another old, but slightly wider angle, 3W 12V LED downlighter was tested -
DSCN2285 (Small).JPG
DSCN2285 (Small).JPG (39.19 KiB) Viewed 2736 times

Now the new 4x4Direct unit :
DSCN2286 (Small).JPG
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Here is my standard LED downlighter in action in the braai room -
DSCN2289 (Small).JPG
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Now see the much wider rim of light as this 4x4Direct 3W 12V wide angle LED down lighter lights up my braai room -
DSCN2287 (Small).JPG
DSCN2287 (Small).JPG (38.02 KiB) Viewed 2736 times








.

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Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:14 pm

The typical LED downlighter is a set of three LED's on a flat surface. - https://www.google.co.za/search?q=pictu ... 2wodDLYAAw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Now the 4x4Direct LED upends what we knew till now .....

At first glance it appears to be a single LED -
DSCN2292 (Small).JPG
DSCN2292 (Small).JPG (48.61 KiB) Viewed 2732 times

The difference is very subtle, and you need to look from the side see how this one has a very special contoured finish to direct the light over a much wider angle -
DSCN2293 (Small).JPG
DSCN2293 (Small).JPG (38.71 KiB) Viewed 2732 times


GONE are the days where "down lighter" meant a small spot of light on the ground :cooldude:


THANKS 4x4Direct :thumbup:

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Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:53 pm

my neighbour pointed out something most interesting ....


We all KNOW the reputation of OSRAM in lighting.


This 4x4Direct unit has the same bakelight type finish as the OSRAM unit ..... :)

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Thu Jun 11, 2015 9:47 pm

But I are not very much seeing these down lighters on the 4x4Direct?

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Thu Jun 11, 2015 9:56 pm

Ye that is because I did not upload them yet. I will be converting my house to 12 volt this weekend and only after that wanted to put it on the shop. Guess now i will have to add them to the site.
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Fri Jun 12, 2015 12:11 am

I converted the lights in my house to 12v dc, 1x100A battery, 90w solar panel with controller that runs 24 4w wide angle (120 deg) down lights, it has been running totally off the grid for three weeks now, if i use all the lights, the power drops to about 10v at the end of the evening, the led's are still bright enough, but a second battery is maybe a good idea later.
I bought three types of LED's to experiment, my wife didn't like the daylight ones (too bright), but they were my favourites, we went for the "Warm white" option, they look like normal tungsen light, i paid about R80.00 each for the 4w ones.
I ran 12v wires into my existing circuit breakers, it immediately converted the whole lighting circuit to 12v, i'm not sure how legal this is, but even my earth leakage are still tripped by the light circuit, so i think it is safe, will find out from the experts
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Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:07 am

Mr_B wrote:But I are not very much seeing these down lighters on the 4x4Direct?
Guess you would just have to pop into the store ... :cooldude:

off course I accept NO responsibility for the spontaneous shopping that shall occur ..... :lmao: :tease: :siffler: :surrender:



I am on my way there to buy one of the 12V bulbs .... want to test it, and SEE how it stacks up, ie brightness, spread etc ....


MAYBE this can be THEE bulb for my work area in my garage .... 2 off dual tube 5 foot tubes and a 180W light set sucks the juice when doing a project in the garage ....

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Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:13 am

Hoppy wrote:I converted the lights in my house to 12v dc, 1x100A battery, 90w solar panel with controller that runs 24 4w wide angle (120 deg) down lights, it has been running totally off the grid for three weeks now, if i use all the lights, the power drops to about 10v at the end of the evening, the led's are still bright enough, but a second battery is maybe a good idea later.
I bought three types of LED's to experiment, my wife didn't like the daylight ones (too bright), but they were my favourites, we went for the "Warm white" option, they look like normal tungsen light, i paid about R80.00 each for the 4w ones.
I ran 12v wires into my existing circuit breakers, it immediately converted the whole lighting circuit to 12v, i'm not sure how legal this is, but even my earth leakage are still tripped by the light circuit, so i think it is safe, will find out from the experts
Allan our 12V system has also been going for nearly one month.

The only time we use eskom light is for the bathrooms, as the extractor fans works with the 220V light.

My pv panel is still to be mounted on the roof. Leaning against the wall in the backyard it hardly gets sun for a few hours, and the system WORKS :) :)

Our system is a parallel system, with the 220V totally untouched and ready to be used if the battery system should act up.

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Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:14 am

I bought three types of LED's to experiment, my wife didn't like the daylight ones (too bright), but they were my favourites, we went for the "Warm white" option, they look like normal tungsen light..
Hoppy, I find that all the time. The guys likes the pure white and the ladies prefer the warm white.
I ran 12v wires into my existing circuit breakers, it immediately converted the whole lighting circuit to 12v, i'm not sure how legal this is, but even my earth leakage are still tripped by the light circuit, so i think it is safe, will find out from the expert
Just make sure Chris don't read the line above.
According to law you may not run your 12 volt and 220 volt circuit in the same db board.

So I will be taking the wires for the lights outside the board and connect them via a fuse to the battery.

I am trying to source 230Ah batteries for us but the company's sales team is really pathetic. If I battle that much to place my first order I am not sure how consistent their supply will be.
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Fri Jun 12, 2015 9:14 am

hehehehe ...

Pieter actually the SANS10142 DOES allow 12/24V inside 220V DB boards - BUT only for control circuits ....


The white coats are now busy re-writing the code to address the use of AC and DC in domestic and commercial applications.


Will be most interesting to see how it all plays out.



Using the house wiring for 12V lights ..... still illegal, but possibly slightly safer - rather disconnect the light circuit AFTER the circuit breaker, then connect this line to your 12V source. Now the 12V and 220V circuits dont mix at all - BUT please remember to install some fuses ....



Read a report during the week, it dealt with fires in SA. Looking at building fires I was very surprised to see the following (though it actually makes a LOT of sense) :

- LEAST fires - high hazard industrial installations. Due to the high hazard nature every step is taken to prevent fires.

- about 10% of building fires - moderate risk installations .... so easy to get lazy when an installation is not high risk.

- near 20% of fires relate to shopping malls, with the vast majority in restaurant kitchens. Fortunately this is so common that the vast majority of these are dealt with by the fire blankets and extinguishers in the kitchen. When these are not stopped immediately the losses run in the millions.

- the rest of the fires relate to HOMES !! ,,,, jip, you guessed it - vast majority of these relate to electrical fires !!


The very sad reality the report next highlighted was our obsession with security - MANY people burn to death in their homes since they are locked into their own homes by their own burglar bars !


Santam has already circulated a document to their brokers regarding "load shedding" and what people do .... The insurers KNOW what is being done with generators and suicide leads. They KNOW of the 12V systems etc etc .... And they KNOW what to look for to repudiate claims.



PS - SORRY if I sound like some preacher !! There is a fine line between doing it right or wrong, and it IS easy enough to do it SAFELY :)

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Fri Jun 12, 2015 9:55 am

PS - SORRY if I sound like some preacher !! There is a fine line between doing it right or wrong, and it IS easy enough to do it SAFELY :)
I am so glad you are here to guide us. The last thing I want to do is burn down my home.

Want to do it as safe and legal as possible.
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Fri Jun 12, 2015 1:53 pm

My braaikamer se skakelaar gepimp, dankie 4x4 direct
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Fri Jun 12, 2015 2:05 pm

Hoppy wrote:My braaikamer se skakelaar gepimp, dankie 4x4 direct
Volt meter (Small).jpg
So you can watch the battery voltage from the throne of thought? :twisted:

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Fri Jun 12, 2015 3:33 pm

Chris, what's a suicide lead?

Sorry, slightly off topic
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Fri Jun 12, 2015 5:48 pm

the BuTch3R wrote:Chris, what's a suicide lead?

Sorry, slightly off topic
DISCLAIMER :surrender: :surrender:

a suicide lead is when you make up an extention lead with TWO male plugs - one to plug into the generator, then the other to plug into one of the house plugs .... providing power to the whole house.

NO earth leakage.
The plug is rated at 16A but people push amps through it like there is no tomorrow.
If you dont switch off the mains CB you are pushing power into the eskom grid. AND, when eskom backs on it pops your genny and blows the crap out of your db board and electronic items ....

gent in Fishhoek laughed at his sparkies quote to fit it correctly. Three loadsheds later lost his genny, lost a lot of electronic equipment and about R16k worth of damage to his DB board. Sparkie had a good laugh at pocketing the money for the repairs ....



all things considered, the term "suicide lead" is the most apt description ever.

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Fri Jun 12, 2015 10:29 pm

Yep, dangerous and certainly doesn't fall within the codes of safe practice, but I have to admit that from time to time I have had to make use of one. I have bound the ends at the plugs with red insulation tape so that there is no mistaking which one is the suicide lead when you look at it and the crew know not to touch it. If for some reason you ever have to make use of one, be sure that the the live end is plugged into a socket that can be switched off, not into a Janus plug for instance. :eh:
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Fri Jun 12, 2015 11:03 pm

I've used one many times, you have go be wide awake.
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Sat Jun 13, 2015 7:30 am

Hoppy that is a very clever idea, I like your light switch.
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Sat Jun 13, 2015 8:14 am

OT,

Thus if I install 12v lights to every room, each with their own switch and fuse on a dedicated 12v circuit, Bob will be my uncle?
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Sat Jun 13, 2015 8:35 am

Thabogrobler wrote:OT,

Thus if I install 12v lights to every room, each with their own switch and fuse on a dedicated 12v circuit, Bob will be my uncle?
Pretty much so. That's the route most have gone except in my case I haven't fused each individual leg, I have split it up into different circuits and just fused each circuit at the battery end.
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Sat Jun 13, 2015 1:16 pm

Hoppy wrote:My braaikamer se skakelaar gepimp, dankie 4x4 direct
Volt meter (Small).jpg
Allan how does this reading, under full load, compare with the volt reading at the battery ??

would be very interesting to SEE the volt-drop in the cables .... Given the size wires you use, and the current draw the volt drop should still be low.

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Mon Jun 15, 2015 1:33 pm

Chris, if the wires also have resistance, then will a 6 watt light "consume" more than 6 watt if it is like 10 meters from the source?

We all do our calculations on the globe's usage, but one should mos also consider the resistance of the wire as well.
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Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:10 am

pietpetoors wrote:Chris, if the wires also have resistance, then will a 6 watt light "consume" more than 6 watt if it is like 10 meters from the source?

We all do our calculations on the globe's usage, but one should mos also consider the resistance of the wire as well.
Pieter under maximum load the volt-drop should be less than 5%. Under the light, or is that low, loads of these LED lights the volt-drop should be negligable.


would be interesting to confirm how the theory and the practice match on different sites.




PS - Pieter by the time that the voltage drop in the wires amounts to a significant portion of the power used something is wrong in the setup.

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Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:50 am

My knowledge of this is limited, but I'm sure someone here would be able to give me an answer.

I was considering using the two batteries I have in the back of my Hilux with an invertor to supply power to the lights in my house. Would this not be easier than replacing the entire wiring and lights to 12V? I would recharge the batteries either with a CTek smart charger, or could even connect my solar panels to keep them charged.
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Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:14 pm

Bester wrote:My knowledge of this is limited, but I'm sure someone here would be able to give me an answer.

I was considering using the two batteries I have in the back of my Hilux with an invertor to supply power to the lights in my house. Would this not be easier than replacing the entire wiring and lights to 12V? I would recharge the batteries either with a CTek smart charger, or could even connect my solar panels to keep them charged.
Bester let's summarise the options as follows :

1) Use existing 220V lights - It is possible to tie into the 220V light circuit and to power these lights from a 12V battery, using an inverter.

Why NOT -
- an electrician should really be doing the change over wiring, as you need a COC.
- most homes dont have energy efficient lights, and will require an insane inverter and large battery bank to power lights (a friend has 1 200W worth of 220V downlighters !!)
- changing the lights to be energy efficient is somethig we should have done years ago, but it aint exactly cheap ....


2) remove the light circuits from the DB board, now use the existing wiring to power 12V lights.

Why NOT -
- you now need to replace all the 220V lights with 12V units
- you now have zero backup if your battery runs flat ... :blushing: :slap:
- chaning it all in one single effort is costly and labour intensive ....
- NOTE - we are still waiting for the updated wiring code, thus impossible to predict what will be required to make a 12V circuit legal .... You may well incur extra costs ....


3) run a second 12V light circuit, totally separate from the 220V circuit

Why NOT -
- NOTE - we are still waiting for the updated wiring code, thus impossible to predict what will be required to make a 12V circuit legal .... You may well incur extra costs ....
- This works best where you have access to the ceiling void, not practical in homes with concrete ceilings.



Then "what lights" ??

Pieter has previously commented that men typically prefer the cool white lights (bright white), while most often females prefer warm white (yellow tinge). LED strip lights are also very popular - BUT, note that exposed strips tend to be "harsh" and can be slightly irritating. It is much easier on the eye if diffused ... except diffusion steals a lot of the light ....



The new wide angle dowlighters from 4x4Direct are nice :)
http://www.4x4direct.co.za/led-house-li ... p-1804.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Now to test the 12V "light" from 4x4Direct - http://www.4x4direct.co.za/led-house-li ... -p-308.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:19 pm

Thanks Chris, appreciate your feedback. Most of the lights in my house are "energy saving" type, but still, if all ligths are on at the same time it will add up the watts. I think I will add it up and then look at other oprions.

An additional 12v circuit is not really an option as part of my house is double storey....

If it is safe to use the exisiting wiring for 12V circuit this is an option (and would do away with invertor) as my idea was to have the batteries on a Ctek charger as well. My thought is to totally disconnect the light circuit(s) from the 220V supply on the DB, and connect the supply from invertor to the breakers on each circuit. Dont know if this would do the trick?
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Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:53 pm

Bester wrote:Thanks Chris, appreciate your feedback. Most of the lights in my house are "energy saving" type, but still, if all ligths are on at the same time it will add up the watts. I think I will add it up and then look at other oprions.

An additional 12v circuit is not really an option as part of my house is double storey....

If it is safe to use the exisiting wiring for 12V circuit this is an option (and would do away with invertor) as my idea was to have the batteries on a Ctek charger as well. My thought is to totally disconnect the light circuit(s) from the 220V supply on the DB, and connect the supply from invertor to the breakers on each circuit. Dont know if this would do the trick?

I believe this is exactly what Hoppy did.


Do remember the rules for 12V circuits are being written at the moment - thus any input is just a best guess at this stage ....


By separating the light circuit from the DB board you now have a stand alone circuit - which does address the apparent conflict of a combined 12 and 220V system.


House light wiring is typically 1,5mm square wire. Thus good for about 15A at 220V, OR for roughly 12A at 12V. Thus about 144W from the battery. We have 80W worth of 12V lights at the moment, with typically no more than 25W used at the same time. This is reasonable for a town house with two people.

On the face of it, existing wiring should do the trick. We can only hope the new rules see it this way ....

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Tue Jun 16, 2015 2:02 pm

Thanks Chris, yes hopefully we can "legally" convert our 220V circuits to 12V circuits in the not to distant future. For now I just feel more comfortable with supplying power from an invertor to the existing 220V circuit (totally seperate from municipal supply) - may just be easier to negotiate with a loss assessor if needed (hopefully not!).
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KOBUSL
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Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:55 pm

Bester wrote:Thanks Chris, yes hopefully we can "legally" convert our 220V circuits to 12V circuits in the not to distant future. For now I just feel more comfortable with supplying power from an invertor to the existing 220V circuit (totally seperate from municipal supply) - may just be easier to negotiate with a loss assessor if needed (hopefully not!).
Bester, hier by my het ek die ligte kring van die res van die huis kring ge-isoleer en 'n kragprop aangesit. Dit prop ek by 'n 12/220 v inverter in met 'n laaier en sonpaneel. Die inverter is 1500 w. Al die ligte in die huis is LED's, behalwe die buise in die kombuis, en die inverter is gekoppel aan 3x 102 au batterye. Alles werk goed.

As die inverter dalk sou probleme gee, kan ek die spul net weer inprop by 'n gewone (Eskom ) prop. Dis seker maar onsinnig om van 220 na 12 en terug na 220 te gaan, maar dis goed wat ek het. ( As jy die LED oopmaak sal jy sien die lig is 12v met 'n transformatortjie ) Meesal sal die sonpanele die batterye gelaai hou, maar vir dae as die lig min is, laai Eskom dit. My huis is ook dubbelverdieping met plat dak, so, dit is maar my oplossing. En my pens is te groot vir die klein spasies tussen die sink en die plafon.
Word te vinnig oud en te stadig wys.

Bester
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Wed Jun 17, 2015 6:10 am

Dankie Kobus, dit klink min of meer soos wat ek in gedagte het, ek moet nog net somme maak van watter grootte invertor en batterye ek nodig het.
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ChrisF
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Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:40 pm

Who else is having load shedding tonight ? :slap:


tv went off, and the UPS is bleeping in the back ground. Thats our only way of knowing the power is off :tease: :lmao: :cooldude:



12V lights working perfectly, as it has for the last couple of weeks.



THANKS Pieter and your team at 4x4Direct !! You DO light up our world !!




PS - hoe verander jy die kanaal op die bos-tv ??

Jy gooi nog hout op :lmao: :lmao:

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george
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Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:43 pm

Lekker man Chris :thumbup: Ai dit moet lekker wees om vir eksdom middel vinger te gooi
"The World is a book, and those who do not travel read only a page.-Saint Augustine"

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ChrisF
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Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:53 pm

george wrote:Lekker man Chris :thumbup: Ai dit moet lekker wees om vir eksdom middel vinger te gooi
ek gaan kook sommer iets op die gas hob om vir hulle nog een te wys ... :tease: :dance1: :lmao:



dit was n paar uur se harde arbeid om tot op die punt te kom, n hele paar uur.

Maar MENS, dis n lekker gevoel dat daai lot nie meer bepaal wat ek in die aand kan doen nie !!

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Thunder02
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Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:59 pm

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Hopefully we should be in that position within a few months.

:cool:
Not all those who wander are lost!

Scout motto:be prepared....
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pietpetoors
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Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:33 pm

The 12 volt versions of GU10 are now on the web site:
http://www.4x4direct.co.za/led-house-li ... p-1804.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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pietpetoors
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Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:36 pm

Chris I experienced the same thing last night. The UPS started beeping and I wondered why because the computer stayed on and the lights stayed on. Only after a while I realized the power was off.
Only Dead Fish Go With The Flow!
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1999 Hilux 2.7i 4x4 Raider DC. Rear diff-lock, Red Peppor Bull Bar and rock sliders, 31" Cooper ST, Snorkel, Alu-Canopy, VHF Kirisun radio, West Coast Rust, Mikem Rear Suspension, Ball Joint Spacers in front, 25watt LED Spots

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