Wanting to install a dual battery system

[Kykdaar]

Whilst I am OK with things mechanical I am totally clueless with things electrical

Seems I have a few choices in this regard.

The easiest and the most expensive way is simply yto walk into any 4X4MW / LA Sport / Safari Centre, make a booking and leave a little later with a fully installed system.

The second is to get somebody that really knows their stuff and who works on a commercial / semi-commercial basis (but without charging the prime rates of the big boys) to do it for me. Being a noob, I know they must be out there, but I do not know who they are.

The third is to implement a DIY solution with the aid of a very knowledgable forum member who can assist with the difficult stuff and who can be compensated in monetary terms or in all sorts of other interesting ways (e.g. beer )

The last and the least appealing is for me to attempt to do this myself and end up with a burnt-out car :roll:

What says the wise old men? Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks

[OOOOMS]

Andre, it is actually very, very siimple.

1) decide what battery you want to us (ie. seize, or 2 batteries) and what you want to dirve. One fridge or two?
then move on to point 2
2)

[Kykdaar]

Andre, it is actually very, very siimple.

1) decide what battery you want to us (ie. seize, or 2 batteries) and what you want to dirve. One fridge or two?
then move on to point 2
2)

1) Deltec High Cycle battery to drive 1xfridge and some camping lights

2).....................................

[Traveler]

Andre, keep going, I am reading with interest.

[Scooter]

Now that you have step one in the bag. Make sure the high cycle battery is the right choice for your usage. Remeber that a high cycle will charge quicker but will not be able to be discharged as much as the deep cycle.

Do some searching on this forum and some light reading on the subject before spending the money.

As for the system, DIY is quite easy even for those that are electrically challenged . As long as you disconnect the battery and only connect everything when you have installed everything you should be fine.
National Luna make a decent kit which has all the bits and bobs needed for a DIY installation including a very good instruction manual. http://www.nationalluna.com/download.htm
Under battery management - DIY Kit installation and instruction manual.

It is all dependant on how much work you want to put in yourself. It is easier to drop the car off and fetch again later but then you don't actually know the system ins and outs. That will be the opinion of most of the guys here

[Kykdaar]

Thanks for the National Luna info Scott I will look into it and try to judge whether I will be able to do the job based thereon.

Whilst I do not minp putting in some effort, I must take into consideration the fact that I have zero electrical knowledge, no soldering skills, no crimping or other "electrical tools" and no experience in this.

Decided on High Cycle as opposed to Deep Cycle as result of the faster re-charging abilities of the high-cycle which suits the fact that I drive a lot when overlanding rarely staying over for more than 2 nights at any place.

[Jaco Versfeld]

Hi,

Sorry to hi-jack this thread. Can I use a normal car battery with the National Luna dual battery system? Is it advisable to use a car battery (Lead-acid), or are there complications? The thing is, we seldom stay longer than a day at a campsite. I also intend to run only a freezer (2.5A average current, NL maybe) from the system.

[Wave]

I'm also keeping my eyes on this thread...

Can you use a Deep Cycle battery as your 2nd battery and keep the vehicles normal battery for the everyday stuff?
Or do you need to have 2 batteries that are identical?

[Traveler]

Just of the cuff, has anybody fitted a NL setup themselves.

[Scooter]

If I think about the installation, the only specialised tool you need is crimping pliers. Not too pricy from builders @ R250 maybe.
That will give you a decent connection, solder can be added after if you feel the need but it isnt absolutely necessary.

It really isn't very difficult, just seems a daunting task when looking at all the bits and pieces and thinking about connecting negative to positive etc. Fortunately all of the connection will have fuses and should you connect it wrong by some slim chance they will blow before your lux goes up in smoke.

As for the battery, the choice is always personal. Jaco, a high cycle (normal car cranking battery) will work fine for your application I think. It all comes down to the amount of charge time you give the battery. Driving for an hour a day will not charge enough but driving constantly for 8 hours will charge nicely.

Eish, questions whilst posting.......... I fitted the NL kit a few years back and have no issues with it. the kit is comprehensive and as long as you plan things before cutting cable to size, you should be fine.

I have a standard car cranking battery up front and now run two 105Ah deep cycle batteries in the bak.
It is only necessary to have identical auxillary batteries as they are connected in series to give you more amp hours with the same voltage.

I had issues with the charging in the beginning as the alternator regulator wasnt putting out enough voltage to keep the aux battery charged. i modded the regulator and since then it has been fine.

[ThysdJ]

Just of the cuff, has anybody fitted a NL setup themselves.

I am in the process of building a "mobile" dual battery system-in-a-box working with a NL control unit. The NL unit is pretty straight forward and the connections are clearly marked.

My application also uses a normal high cycle cranking battery. We usually drive at least 4 hours daily which is sufficient to recharge the battery. When camped, we use mains power (when available) to save battery power. In the last few years this setup worked well for us.

[Kykdaar]

Just of the cuff, has anybody fitted a NL setup themselves.

And if anyone near me have, will they be willing to show and explain the setup / installation procedure to me?

Reading about it in a book is fine, but being able to physically see how it has been done in practice on a similiar vehicle and to be able to ask some (stupid) questions would be most helpful.

Anyone?

[OOOOMS]

If you are prepared to come to the West Rand, I will gladly assist you in fitting the system for your vehicle. I have successfully fitted x1 in my SFA, x1 d4d Tuna and in my D4D. Takes about 2 hours.

I have the tools, you just bring the goods and some cold one's

[Gertc]

Hi mark maybe You should take photo`s step by step and show how to install a system.

Or

We must convince F_D to install a system in white Fang then I will do it step by step and F_D can take the photo`s and do all the admin.


viewtopic.php?f=41&t=5527" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Family_Dog]

Hi mark maybe You should take photo`s step by step and show how to install a system.

Or

We must convince F_D to install a system in white Fang then I will do it step by step and F_D can take the photo`s and do all the admin.


viewtopic.php?f=41&t=5527" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Gert,


White Fang's awaiting! When? :D :D

My Camera battery is fully charged as well!


-F_D

[ChrisF]

It is only necessary to have identical auxillary batteries as they are connected in series to give you more amp hours with the same voltage.

I believe the two auxiliarie batteries are to be connected in PARRALLEL, else you would end up with 24V.

[DougN]

We fitted a national luna "intellegent solenoid" as part of our dual battery system, also have a controller inline to protect the battery and accept solar input, the hardest part of the whole install was running the cables from thr front of the car to the back of the bakkie.

It was a whole lot simpler & easier than I thought, a little wire to battery - from solenoid, cable from battery + to solenoid, cable from Solenoid to battery + in back, cable from std battery - to battery - in back, viola! tidy up cablles, mount solenoid & you are done.

[chopper]

Andre,
Mark extended the same generous offer to me as well (a while ago) after he assisted me to access a good 2nd-hand NL system
Maybe we should take him up on his offer, hit the road to his place in Rhoodekrans (I know where he lives) and get the job done?!
I'm impaired as you are (ito electical goodies and connections) and will benefit greatly form the learning opportunity

[OOOOMS]

It is actually very simple, but very important to do it correctly. The first time some 7 years ago when I first tried it.....I had to go to NL themselves and they showed me the correct way.

Aternatively try Nico at MY 4x4, they also do fitment

[Kykdaar]

Andre,
Mark extended the same generous offer to me as well (a while ago) after he assisted me to access a good 2nd-hand NL system
Maybe we should take him up on his offer, hit the road to his place in Rhoodekrans (I know where he lives) and get the job done?!
I'm impaired as you are (ito electical goodies and connections) and will benefit greatly form the learning opportunity

Mark,

Thank you very much for the kind offer and I would like to take you up on it. Whilst we do it we can perhaps compile, as suggested here, a photo report to assist other guys as well.

Thinus,
I think you also stay in Wingate Park? I am definatly very keen. Let's set up a date with Mark and I will buy the NL kit in the interim.

Thinus / Mark What date do you propose? I am available anytime over weekends except for the 12th when attending Herman's bushmechanics course.

Cheers,


Andre

[Scooter]

It is only necessary to have identical auxillary batteries as they are connected in series to give you more amp hours with the same voltage.

I believe the two auxiliarie batteries are to be connected in PARRALLEL, else you would end up with 24V.

I can for like to appologise, I got mixed up

Forget parrallel and series, just connect the negative to the negative and the positive to the positive

For the guys who will be taking Mark up on his offer, make sure you go to your local sound install shop or even builders I think these days and pick up 6 or 7 meters of corrugated sheathing to house the cables from the front to the back. This will protect the cable more than just tape and will keep them together nicely. I taped the entire length after inserting the cables to make it a little more water proof. 20mm diameter should do.

[Traveler]

I've gone and picked up the "intelligent" solenoid already.

[OOOOMS]

I will be available this
Saturday afternoon after 12h00 or
even Sunday afternoon.

Next week Sat is out as we are hosting the GPS Family Fun day and the weekend after that we are in Tzaneen.

[HennieJ2]

If you want to build your own - here is an excellent site on the Overland Forum, hosted and maintained by Hennie Rautenbach:
http://www.overland.co.za/Dual_Battery/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HJ

PS: One advantage to build our own system, is that you will be able to do your own fault finding if something goes wrong.......

[Kykdaar]

I will be available this
Saturday afternoon after 12h00 or
even Sunday afternoon.

Next week Sat is out as we are hosting the GPS Family Fun day and the weekend after that we are in Tzaneen.

Sounds good Mark, thanks

Chopperpilot - are you in?

Last question, where do I buy the NL kit?

Thanks

[chopper]

Saturday pm it is then!!
Thanx Mark!

[Traveler]

You can buy the kit, or it's components from Outdoor Warehouse.

You can also download the manual from their website.

http://www.nationalluna.com/Datasheets/Split-charge" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; manual.pdf

[Family_Dog]

Sounds good Mark, thanks

Chopperpilot - are you in?

Last question, where do I buy the NL kit?

Thanks

How about Nico at "My4x4" in Krugersdorp? Not sure if he sells them, but let's support our own!


-F_D

[OOOOMS]

Sounds good Mark, thanks

Chopperpilot - are you in?

Last question, where do I buy the NL kit?

Thanks

How about Nico at "My4x4" in Krugersdorp? Not sure if he sells them, but let's support our own!

Yes, MY 4X4 do, and are open Saturday's


-F_D

[Kykdaar]

I am, unfortunately, out. SWAMBO put a swift end to my plans. Seems I must consult wider on my availability during weekends

Sorry Mark.

If Thinus's install goes ahead, perhaps he would be kind enough to let me have a look at it at a later stage.

I will, nevertheless, go ahead and buy the kit in the interim.

[OOOOMS]

Dis jammer Andre....

Tinus laat weet net of jy beskikbaar gaan wees?

[Bloues]

Andre,
Mark extended the same generous offer to me as well (a while ago) after he assisted me to access a good 2nd-hand NL system
Maybe we should take him up on his offer, hit the road to his place in Rhoodekrans (I know where he lives) and get the job done?!
I'm impaired as you are (ito electical goodies and connections) and will benefit greatly form the learning opportunity

Mark,

Thank you very much for the kind offer and I would like to take you up on it. Whilst we do it we can perhaps compile, as suggested here, a photo report to assist other guys as well.

Thinus,
I think you also stay in Wingate Park? I am definatly very keen. Let's set up a date with Mark and I will buy the NL kit in the interim.

Thinus / Mark What date do you propose? I am available anytime over weekends except for the 12th when attending Herman's bushmechanics course.

Cheers,


Andre

What about the cold one ? And some meat -- Why not make it a GTG ........ !!!! I'll pop in, don't know a lot but will bring a chair !!!

[OOOOMS]

What about the cold one ? And some meat -- Why not make it a GTG ........ !!!! I'll pop in, don't know a lot but will bring a chair !!!

....bring a chair.....??? in your deams mate, jy gaan braai en skottelgoed was

[Traveler]

Ek beplan om hierdie projekkie aan te vat die naweek, hang alles net af van hoe laat ek my Hilux kry by Decleor.

[Suidwes1]

Andre as Mark said ( thx Mark ),
Come and visit us for coffee and we will help you with pleasure.
We are open ons Saturdays.

[Kykdaar]

Andre as Mark said ( thx Mark ),
Come and visit us for coffee and we will help you with pleasure.
We are open ons Saturdays.

Thanks Nico

A few questions -

- Would you be able to tackle such a job on a future Saturday if we arranged it beforehand?

- Must I still buy the stuff (NL) or do you supply everything?

- Please send me a PM with a qoute as I would gladly support a fellow forum member where possible.

Cheers,


Andre

[cprinsloo]

Whilst I am OK with things mechanical I am totally clueless with things electrical

Seems I have a few choices in this regard.

The easiest and the most expensive way is simply yto walk into any 4X4MW / LA Sport / Safari Centre, make a booking and leave a little later with a fully installed system.

The second is to get somebody that really knows their stuff and who works on a commercial / semi-commercial basis (but without charging the prime rates of the big boys) to do it for me. Being a noob, I know they must be out there, but I do not know who they are.

The third is to implement a DIY solution with the aid of a very knowledgable forum member who can assist with the difficult stuff and who can be compensated in monetary terms or in all sorts of other interesting ways (e.g. beer )

The last and the least appealing is for me to attempt to do this myself and end up with a burnt-out car :roll:

What says the wise old men? Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks

Hi André,

I see you want to install the NL system, you can also consider installing a VSR (Voltage Sensitive Relay). IIRC the NL system uses a Cole Herse solenoid, which can cause some voltage drop due to mechanical wear of the contacts (I still use my CH, no problem yet). The VSR do not have moving parts (Solid State Technology).

You can also consider connecting the positive cable directly to the alternator positive stud, also good for less voltage drop. And the negative cable directly to the engine, for the same reason.

I also installed 2 x 63 Amp circuit breakers in the positive leg for safety.

But good luck on what you decide on in any case!!

Cheers,

Chris

[Kykdaar]

Hi Chris,

Thanks for the info .

Your advise is perhaps a timeous caution to me that I am trying to proceed with something that I do not know anything about.

It illustrates yet again (to me at least) the problems faced by a noob in the 4x4 world - i.e. the lack of knowledge leading to the making of expensive mistakes and uninformed or wrong choices. I recently read somewhere of somebody having to redo all his electronic add-ons at great cost to correct past mistakes made. I do not want to have to do that.

Seems I would have to invest another few months in research to fully understand all the pro's and cons of dual battery systems, their components and the different options available before I would be in a position to make a really informed decision.

Cheers,

Andre

[chopper]

Just got back from Cosmo City, started with a Joburg Metro project yesterday to install 700 low-pressure water-heating systems
Supposed to have installed 14 systems installed by pm today and ended up with 6 systems being completed; I regretfully have to stand down on Mark's very generous offer - thank you once again Mark and please accept my apologies
The "interesting" thing is that we are expected to have done all 700 units by 30 June?!
Just for clarity - Joburg Metro is/was not responsible for the poor performance; their Eco manager is quite on the ball!

[OOOOMS]

Geen probleem, die offer is nogsteeds oop

[chopper]

Dankie Mark,
Ek het groot waardering dat jy altyd beskikbaar is met raad asook om jou hande vuil te maak om ander manne te help!
Geniet die rugby vandag!

[Traveler]

Ok, ek het die "onmoontlike" aangepak. Baie dankie aan beide Uys en Mark vir al die raad wat altwee van julle my gegee het. Ek het so mengsel van die raad ingespan, en het in so 2 ure die volgende reggekry.

Dit is waar die kabels in die bak uitkom. Die battery sal woon binne die doelgeboude spasie in die laaistelsel. Die negatief is in, positief sal ek gou more insit, ek het ongelukkig nie rooi draad kon kry nie. Ek wil 135amp "Brad Harrison" plug opsit.



Dit is hoe alles lyk onder die enjinkap. Die twee 100amp fuses is in plek gesit (ek het besluit om groen in te sit want ek hou van kleur, pas by my kleurvolle persoonlikheid). Die intelligent solenoid is ingesit tussen die twee fuses boxes. Daardie groen draad is 16mm welding kabel. Die blou ene is 16mm batterykabel. Die verskil lyk my is in die dikte van die isolasie.



Ek het nog nie die solenoid se swart draadjie gekoppel op die negatiewe terminaal van die battery nie.

Die negatiewe kabel het eintlik pragtig ingepas onder die kajuit, daar is 1 ekstra oop knip gewees so elke 500mm waar die draad pragtig inpas en baie stewig vasgehou word.

Ek hou nie baie van daardie draad wat oor die fusebox is nie. Ek sal nog plan daar maak.

[OOOOMS]

Netjies Heinrich

Sien....dit kan maklik self gedoen word!!!

Ek sou net staal 'glands' gebruik het, hoop hulle hou

[Traveler]

Dankie Mark, jou inset het reuse verskil gemaak.

Die meeste raad wat ek jou kan gee as jy hierdie projek aanpak. Beplan baie mooi waar jy wil insit, en koppel.

Dit is nie moeilik nie. Dit is net belangrik dat jy netjies werk, en dat al die isolasie baie deeglik gedoen word.

Ek is nie voorstander van National Luna nie, die personeel by die mpy is maar bietjie arrogant oor die telefoon. Maar my kompliment aan hulle produkte. Die aanwysings is maklik om te volg, en die installasie is regtig maklik.

Ek sal beslis vir my staal glands gaan kry, kon net nie vandag iewers opspoor nie.

[Traveler]

Nou is alles in behalwe die plugs en die battery. Ek moet natuurlik nog die krag toevoer op die negatief sit vir die solenoid.

Soos julle kan sien het ek nou oorgeslaan na rooi draad, net om dit weer lekker kleurvol te maak.



Die kabels in die laaibak. Ek het vandag met 1 van my vriende gesels, hy gaan vir my staal glands voorsien. Hulle heavy barrier vlekvrye staal weergawes.

[Traveler]

I have finished my project today. I installed the plug this morning. It has been attached with soldering, it was rather difficult to solder something of that size. But now that I've gotten the hang of it, the next one will be much easier.

[Traveler]

ps. Mark, see the steel glands.

[OOOOMS]

very nice Heinrich, have you got a fridge yet?

[Traveler]

Thanks Mark.

In die trailer.

[cprinsloo]

Baie netjies!!

[OOOOMS]

Thanks Mark.

In die trailer.

Q....so why did you stop in the bin? And not at the rear bumper?

Or am I missing something (perhaps for inv..?)

[Traveler]

Yip, for the first battery and for the inv.

This is the other part on the opposite side of that plug going to the batt.

[OOOOMS]

OK, nou verstaan ek beter, jy het genoem jy gaan die 2de battery in die laai sisteem sit :)

En ek neem aan jy het nog 'n battery in die trailer vir die yskas.

[Traveler]

En ek neem aan jy het nog 'n battery in die trailer vir die yskas.

Beslis.