2.4 petrol to 2.2 conversion

[lukestrugnell]

Hi all
As a new member I would firstly like to say: Great site!

My question:
I am contemplating buying a 2.4l p hilux 4x4 single cab. Its a good deal and in great nick! Not what I want but feels too good to say no.

Is it possible to put a 2.2l engine in that bakkie? what issues arise? Gearbox engine interface?
Engine mounting points?
Gearing?
Paperwork?
etc

The reason is fuel consumption! I have been told that by putting a free flow exhaust and putting a taxi import carb I could almost get 10km per l with a 2.2! Thats not half bad for a hilux.

Any advce before i buy would be great
Thanks
Luke

[BenHur]

As far as I know the bell housing and engine mounts is the same, but I an talking under correction. Worse come to worse you will have to buy a 4Y bell housing at a scrapyard.

When we did my 7M-GE conversion (3.0 Cressida) All I had to do was to get a Cressida bell housing that fitted straight onto the Hilux Gearbox. All SFA breadboxes is the same and the only difference to the Cressida box is the gear ratios.

But be warned not even a 4Y with EFI will give you 10Km/l Very few of the more modern designed bakkies with better aerodynamics achieves that figure with petrol engines. Your biggest problem with 4x4 bakkies and especially lifted ones is that your vehicle has the drag coefficient of a brick. So wind resistance is what pushes up your fuel consumption.

Keep the 22R engine until it breaks (which might be many years still since they are proven in many a Hi Ace taxi) and then change it for a 4Y which might be slightly more economical and even more powerful.

I improved my fuel economy from 4-4.5 km/l to about 6.2 km/l ( I am a lead foot )by going the 7M-GE route. But my reason for doing the swap was more to do with power for towing and not fuel efficiency. With proper optimisation (free flow exhaust and less restrictive air intake system) I might be lucky to get 7km/l.

[Family_Dog]

Hi Luke,

As far as I know, the exhaust manifold on the 2.4 is on the opposite side to the 4Y, which is on the passenger side, so you would require other changes as well. The Chinese 4Y is a great motor, but the carburettor is not quite up to standard - refer my thread elsewhere on changing carbs to a Weber. Driven carefully, the Weber is far more economical than the Chinese carb as fitted to a 4Y motor, mate of mine gets average of 7.5 - 8 km/litre on his Cressida 2.4 motor. The Chinese carb, however docile you might drive, gives no more than 5.6km/litre.

-F_D

[lukestrugnell]

Cool thanks guys
Ok so if I buy it and stay with the 2.4 what mods can i do to suck as many k's from the juice as possible?
What consumption can i expect standard? and moddified?
Thanks

[BenHur]

About all you can do that is worth your while is a proper free flow (not bigger that 50mm pipe) and make sure your carb is properly jetted. Some people say that a snorkel will also improve it slightly but at R3K for a snorkel just for fuel saving purposes, you would have to drive a lot to make your ROI worth while.That's about that. Expect between 5-6km/l depending on your driving style.

[pietpetoors]

And ask around what difference a weber carb would make. I believe that one of the problems with the 2.4's consumption is the carb, not the engine.

[Berty]

if you get 10 km off a litre i will buy you a tank of fuel, not gonna happen. expecially on a 4WD. my diesel SFA gives 9.5 at best, if i drive like an idiot i get low 7's.

[Cookie Monster]

I get about 6.6km/l with my 4y and that is with a noisy gudgion pin :roll: ,wich I will have to get sorted at some time or another.

[GTO]

I get 7.5 to 8.5km/litre around town and 9 to 10km/litre long distance at 110 to 120kph.
I can cruise at 140+kph but then it is back down to 7.5/8 km/litre.
Mine is a 1995 single cab 4x2 2.4 petrol(22r),does a 4x4 use that much extra fuel?
Maybe a km less per litre?
In the CAR magazine they have the 2.4 D/C 4x4 at 16/17litre per 100km.
Also I would keep the 22r engine they are extremely reliable.

[BenHur]

does a 4x4 use that much extra fuel? Maybe a km less per litre?

YES definitally. It all has to do with vehicle height which radically effects the drag coefictient negatively.

Adding a suspension lift can even affect an existing 4x4's fuel economy with 1 or 2 km/l.

Long ago I was responsible to collect all the log sheets for all the bakkies at work and then consolidate everything into a monthly report. One of the examples I can remember clearly was the Nissan 2.4 bakkies. The most efficient ones were the 2 we had with only flat steel covers with lids covering the loadbin The gave about 13-14l/100km. A similar set up van with a raised body gave about 15-16l/100km and the 4x4 with standard height canopy gave about 17-18l/100km. But the shocker was the 2 plat bakkies which had specially made high pitched canopies on extended load bins. The fronts of these canopies stuck out above the roof for about 400 - 500 mm at a 90deg angle. Those vans used 20-21 l/100km. All these bakkies were 2.4 Nissans bought between 1997 and 1998.

[lukestrugnell]

My friend has a 1989 2.2 petrol sfa d/c and with his free flow and the import taxi carb he is getting 10km/l if he drives 90-100km/hour.
Bertie would you like to buy him some petrol sure he will appreciate it? :>

[BenHur]

Luke

Back to the topic at hand. Yes if the Lux is in a good nick then go ahead and buy it.

But be warned; do not be surprised if you get below 7km/l. If your friend really gets 10km/l as measured on a GPS (remember Toyotas are known for optimistic odo/speedo readings) then he must please share his secrets here with us.

I am sure the guys here would like to know how. Family Dog also has a Chinese Import (Taxi engine) engine in his van and only got below 6 km/l with the Chinese carb. I doubt than with his new Weber he would get better that 7-8km/l so I am sure he would also be interested to know how he can get that improved up to 10km/l.

P.S. Back in December 1999 I drove a KB250D Isuzu. We were bound for a big Holiday and Jol in Cape Town to celebrate the new millennium. About a week before we had to leave I blew up my motor. So I had to rush to get it overhauled in time.

I received the block with the new sleeves pressed line bored and pistons and crank fitted back from the engineering shop the evening before we had to leave. I worked through the night to reassemble the engine and put it back in. I started the engine the morning at about seven a clock drove from PTA to Midrand and back at 80 km/h took a nap and then packed and left for Cape Town.

All the way from Pretoria to Colesburg I maintained 80km/h. I then filled up and drove on to Cape Town not exceeding 100km/h. I actually realised afterwards I would have comfortably made Beauford West on the fuel in my tank.

My fuel efficiency for that trip:
From Pretoria to Colesburg I got 19.5 km/l. From Colesburg to Cape Town I got about 16km/l. After draining the changing the oil and filter in Capetown at 2000kms after the overhaul I started driving the engine normally again and my consumption was back to the usual 11-12 km/l I used to get on this diesel engine before.

The point I am trying to make here is, yes I would also be able to get 10km/l out of an 4Y engine if I do 80km/h maybe push the tyre pressure up to 4 bar (they are actually allowed to push tyre pressures up much higher when competing in the total economy run) and drive the engine at a constant speed without ever using more that the 1st third of the throttle range. But that is not the way a person normally drives.

[pietpetoors]

If your friend really gets 10km/l as measured on a GPS (remember Toyotas are known for optimistic odo/speedo readings) then he must please share his secrets here with us.

Ben, the secret might be the driving style. He said previously his friend drives between 90 and 100km/h. On a Toy speedo that will give you between 80 and 90km/h. It is also not only the speed that does this, it is also the way you accelerate. My dad drove a 3.4 litre Courier bakkie some years ago, he actually got between 10km/l and 11km/l with that thing. Some people might think that you will never see that on a 3.4 ford, but that is because he drives like that, not faster than 100 and it takes for ever to get to a 100.

[Family_Dog]

My friend has a 1989 2.2 petrol sfa d/c and with his free flow and the import taxi carb he is getting 10km/l if he drives 90-100km/hour.
Bertie would you like to buy him some petrol sure he will appreciate it? :>

Admittedly I travelled faster than that, but I drove at a speed that the Hilux felt comfortable with, on level ground and with only a very slight 3/4 wind, with my foot just resting on the accelerator & keeping the speed. Admittedly, the engine had then only done some 2500Km from new, but I did drive as conscientiously as I could. My speed was on average about 110Km/Hr, true GPS speed. However, this is with the raised suspension and was with the fatter 31" tyres, which I have since replaced. Economy was bad, 5.6km to the litre.

At the price of petrol, this vehicle is not in daily use and will be tested once again at the end of August. My Hilux does not sport a freeflow exhaust (it would drive me crazeeee!!) but does have a banana branch fitted.

-F_D

[BenHur]

Eric

Remember you get properly built freeflows which is not that noisy and then you get the Danville/Brakpan type which is a 150mm diamater pipe with a single 160mm beat-box silencer and a 250 mm tail piece that you hear from 3 miles down the road. These are installed on the guys' cars with bumperstickers saying: "Do not overtake, rather use the tunnel to pass"

[Scooter]

I just had a Powerflow exhaust fitted with the Wildcat branches. The systems sound is not a noisy one as the exhaust is a 57mm with two boxes. The sound is a low husky one that is hardly noticeable over all the other noises inside and outside the cab. Together with brospeed inlet manifold, correct settings and a heavy foot I get 7.5km/l.

[Family_Dog]

heh... I have a small waterhole in the end of my tail pipe (No... Bennie, I mean the chrome tail piece of the Hilux ) and it gives off a rather rough sound as well :)

Scooter, are you referring to a S/C or a D/C?

-F_D

[Harold]

My 2.4 (petrol) fuel consumption averages 13,5lt/100km
(7,4km/lt). With a good tail wind and a light foot you cam get up to 8,5km/lt.

Lets work on 7,4km/lt; at a fuel price of R7.00 /lt. = 94,5 cents/km

Assume your conversion gives you a 20% improvement = 8,88km/lt
= 78,8 cents/lt. (difference = 15,7 cents/lt)

For every R1000 you spend on your conversion you would have to do 6369km to break even. Assume the conversion cost you R30000 you would have to do 191070kmn to break even.
I have ignored the price difference between petrol & diesel.

It hardly seems worth it. Be wary of conversions to save fuel. The cost of the conversion could mean that you actually incur a loss and not a saving.

[GTO]

I would listen to Harold and keep the 22R engine! :)

[Riceburner]

keep the 2.4 and fi a 32/36 weber not a 36/36. I love mine. No issues offrad at all. I see a can of worms here?

[Scooter]

F_D, mine is the D/C, remembering that at the moment there is no extra weight except for the canopy and that does enough for the aerodynamics of the Lux.

I always thought I would get less but I have tried various methods of driving and to my suprise it stays pretty much the same no matter how I drive i.e when unloaded.

[pietpetoors]

keep the 2.4 and fi a 32/36 weber not a 36/36.

Is the 32/36 the same they used on the old Ford V6 motors?

[BenHur]

Eric

Which one do you have?

[Riceburner]

a 38/38 ws used on v6 ford motors.

[Family_Dog]

Hi Bennie,

36/36.

Possibility that I might be going to Zeerust Koppie tomorrow, holding thumbs!

-F_D

[d4d]

Scooter, your PowerFlow setup is interesting.

Roddy here at PowerFlow mentioned Brospeed branch, not Wildcat, 50mm and not 57mm as current. He did not mention intake manifold. I was not aware Brospeed does intakes as well.
Do you have std Carb

I have a no name brand branch (bought like this) 57mm pipe. Get 6.8k/lt with 31" Muds
no canopy etc. This is driving 80-120 and include peak traffic. Work and back 75km/day.

Roddy reckon I'll get at least 7.5km/lt after he checked my setup,
ODO 158k... 22R DC 4x4

Give some more info regarding that intake.....

Many thanks in advance..

[lukestrugnell]

wow thanks all for all the info
Think ill take the cab and keep the 22r then and possibly fit a decent free flow!
Then drive carefully and hope she not to thirsty!
Harold good point re the conversion when you put it that way I may as well use the bucks for my Bots/Nam/Angola trip been dreaming of!
Thanks guys
L

[Riceburner]

I had a Bro-speed intake on my old lux. You loose bottom end and it feels as if you need to realy floor it to get the lux going. The standard ones are just as good. Bro-speed one looks trick though.

[Scooter]

d4d, sorry about the late reply. I have the standard Nikki carb sitting on top of a Brospeed inlet manifold. The manifold, as far as I understand it, is flowed for better fuel delivery to the combustion chamber and in turn better fuel consumption as it does not spend as much time in the manifold.

I will post some pics later today. I have a Wildcat branch going for R600 if you interested but I'm sure that yours works just the same.

[Scooter]

I have to eat my words for a minute here. First mistake, I accepted what the exhaust shop had told me about the diameter of the pipe used for my exhaust. It has in fact got a inside diameter of 50mm.
Appologies fro the incorrect info.
The photos of tmy inlet manifold are still on their way.

[Scooter]

As promised, a picture of my brospeed inlet manifold and one of the carb. They might be a bit blurry but you will get the just of it. :D

Edit: I cleared up your photo a bit - Benhur