2010 Hilux Brakes - Not stopping

[Rob B]

So I bought a 2010 4.0 Hilux 4x4 auto a while back (used), and ever since have been struggling with the brakes on this thing.... It just doesn't want to stop....

I drive two hiluxes and a 2.7 Fortuner as work and previously drove a 2010 D4D Fortuner at home, so am comparing those vehicles braking ability to my new one. It just doesn't feel right.

The brakes are spongy to say the least, I have had everything checked and replaced the rear brakes at Toyota and skimmed the front discs but it still feels the same as before. I really have to get on the brakes hard to make something happen. With the other vehicles I just touch the brakes with minimal effort and there is reaction but with my hilux I have to put my foot solid on the pedal and push to get some action. I can get the ABS to kick in on a gravel road if need be, almost lifting off my seat, but without much stopping action before or after. Toyota says it feels fine..............

The load sensing valve had been modified so that the top nut had been turned around to increase the length, why I don't know, but Toyota set that right and then adjusted it a bit to take account of the lift. It has a 75mm Camil lift all round and it came with new Dunlop AT3 (replacing with muds soon).

Can anyone please offer some input here???

[Thabogrobler]

What is the tyre size?

[johanstr]

Hi Rob. I had the same problem. Toyota even had me replacing the master cylinder to no avail. Then I noticed that the inner and outer brake pads don't wear at the same rate, I had the front calipers serviced and that did the trick.Hope you come right.

[ChrisF]

Standard suspension ?

With a raised suspension the load sensing valve does not function properly, and should be adjusted to give the correct brake distribution.

[lukestoyzx]

+1 on the tire size? They just dont stop when ya go bigger, especially if it's pre 11 when they started putting larger brakes on them. Plenty of ways to improve it tho, if ya have 17inch wheels ya can bolt prado brakes on, braided lines, there is a mob over here that does a dual diaphragm brake booster that works really well.

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[Die$eL]

Have you tried replacing the brake fluid (reservoir and lines)? Even if it looks clean it may have moisture in it.

[Knuppel]

The LSPV is most likely the problem! You brake.......nothing happens at the back...... the front starts to lock because you are putting plenty pressure..........ABS kicks in.........the back did nothing so because of ABS kicking in the front now also does nothing!!!!!!!

Simple test to check if it is the LSPV. Remove the lever from the diff and pull it up all the way to the top. use a tie strap/cable tie to secure it there. Take for test drive and do your brake test.

This is the most common problem with raised suspensions. Bigger wheel diameter does have an impact but nothing to write home about unless you have fitted 35"s on the vehicle and still then it will have sufficient braking force to stop comfortably.

LSPV = Load Sensing Proportioning Valve

Side note: if ever you land in the situation where the ABS is preventing you from stopping then simply switch the ignition off. Practise before you need it in an emergency. This usually happens in sand, snow, oily and muddy conditions.

[Rob B]

Hi guys

Thanks for the responses. I am running 265/75/16, sure not big enough to make a difference?

We adjusted the LSPV by 10mm after resetting to factory setting. How does one know when this is at the correct setting?

Brake fluid has not been replaced, will have to check that option as well.
Front caliper service has also not been done.

Even when I tap the brakes there is little sound from the brake booster which is quite pronounced on all the other similar vehicles but that was also deemed to be 'ok'.

After I replaced the rear brakes and went into the Tankwa Karoo the rear brakes kept locking up and releasing over and over again on their own as when went over short rises in the road, and coming down a mountain pass, so much so that I could not raise the hand brake to the first click, and then moments later its completely slap, and then the next morning its back to normal.

When it went for the rear brakes the first time and was tested at the testing station on the rollers it wasn't getting a great result, no matter how they set the brakes...

[lukestoyzx]

Could be, even more stupid is most lift kits most give you a simple bracket the adjust the lpv to compensate for the lift. I have put a completely new brake system in my rig from top to bottom and even on 32s wouldn't lock a wheel. Now she's on 33s, forgot about it! Abs won't work unless its wet or offroad. Im just used to it now tho and always give myself space!

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[Knuppel]

Robert, your suspension lifted by 75mm! Therfore you MUST at least lift the lspv bracket by 75 mm. At the moment you are still short of 65mm. Do my little test, you only need to remove ONE bolt and have a cable tie handy!


Go and read hear, just found it right here through a google search
http://www.hilux4x4.co.za/brakes/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Mud Dog]

All very valid points and suggestions above.

One of the things that's often overlooked is the booster - check the vac line on the booster is ok, no leaks and that there is vacuum. Check that the booster is not leaking - physically suck on the vac pipe to the booster and it should hold the suction - you can also park on a slight incline where there are no traffic hazards and where you will be able to do a handbrake stop if needs be (your driveway should be good) - then with the handbrake holding the vehicle, no foot on the brake pedal, switch off the motor - wait a minute or two, release the handbrake and as soon as you are rolling a bit use the pedal to brake - you should get at least two stops with the pedal before the vacuum reserve is depleted and the pedal feels hard with much less braking power.

Are you losing brake fluid at all? Master cylinder OK? No sweating of brake fluid at any of the slave cylinders at the wheels? Have any of the brake pads been contaminated with brake fluid or oil? (You will need to replace them if they have been contaminated - no amount of cleaning or soaking will be able to restore them properly).

Hope you get to the bottom of it soon because it's a critical safety issue.

[Rob B]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'm going to try everything until it comes right. One of the fixes must solve the problem.

[Mars]

I agree with all of the advice given above. If everything is set correctly then my first call would be the vacuum as Andy says.

I would also consider a Powerbrake upgrade. It made a HUGE difference to my 2006 3.0 D4D. http://www.powerbrake.co.za

[Rob B]

So folks

Finally its working. Bigger tyres not a problem. Didnt need to upgrade to powerbrakes either.

Toyota found the self adjusters werent working lekker after another Toyota fitted them the wrong way round... but that didnt help. They did everything I asked of them BESIDES adjust the LSPV. No one seems to understand the logic. Even someone from the factory had a look and couldnt figure it out. Toyota finally gave up and said thats they way they are and its because of the bigger tyres. This after I showed them all the pictures and logic.....
Contaced Powerbrake who put me onto Tri-torq in Cape Town. They modified and adjusted the LPSV and suddenly the pedal trvael is minimal and it takes almost no effort to stop and doesnt leave you wondering if it CAN stop.

Thanks everyone

Cant believe how inexperienced/unskilled the Toyota head mechanics are

[Mud Dog]

Good that you eventually got to the bottom of it. One really doesn't expect a workshop, Toy dealer or not, to fit the adjusters incorrectly.

[Rob B]

There where so many things wrong that each time I took it in they found something wrong. At the first dealership they fixed something that was done wrong which the same technician had worked on previously. The second dealership found the self adjusters on wrong. Total cost to finally have rear brakes is now at R11k give or take.

[Mud Dog]

I could spit nails for you!