Toyota Hilux D4D Problems-Injectors - Now appears 2 b fact!!

HennieJ2 · Post by **HennieJ2** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:41 am

Hi Guys,
I saw this request for help on the LCCSA forum and as a proud Lux owner, I thought it is appropriate that we call on our fundi's :Geek: and guys with connections to restore this guy's trust in Toyota.

Please help.

Thanks

Hennie
http://www.landcruiserclub.co.za/cms/in ... ic&t=20386

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:49 am

Hennie

Can you get this guy to sign up here please

then we'll sort him out

and he'll never need be lost in LC Land again

Post by **Family_Dog** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:51 am

Hennie,

I doubt anyone here can read that post unless they're subscribed to LCCSA as a member. You've invited that person to post here, so let's hope he does. I would suggest he does so as well on the Community Forum.

It seems that Toyota's service (or lack thereof) sucks big time and believe me, it is going to start hitting their pocket book.

By the way, check that link you posted.

-F_D

HennieJ2 · Post by **HennieJ2** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:07 am

Hi All, I checked the link and it does work, but maybe because I am subscribed to their forum. I have copied and paste most of the info on a word doc and will try to attach it here. Also, will PM this guy and ask him to join here. I have placed a link to our TECHNICAL forum in a reply on the topic, so hopefully he will get a notification and come and check out our site.
Regards

Hennie

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:17 am

Post by **Family_Dog** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 10:05 am

Sorry Hennie, I meant check the link you posted on the LCCSA forum ;)

It leads to this forum, but not to the Technical section. No matter, if he joins here let's see if some of the clever guys can be of assistance to him.

-F_D

HennieJ2 · Post by **HennieJ2** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 10:26 am

Thanks Eric,
I have modified it to link to our main page with guidelines how to get to the forum. I don't know why, but since I copied and paste the web adres, it shouldn't be wrong, but when you click on it, it goes to the forums with a message that the specific forum does not exists - strange, but that's why I am not into computers and the electronic things - as temperamental as.......... you know what. I have PM'd him also and requested him to join here.

Regards

Hennie

Jacques Joubert · Post by **Jacques Joubert** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:41 pm

Hi,

ok ... I'm here. Thanks Hennie for the post and link to this forum.

Took the situation up with the dealer principal (and the first question was did I buy it there, short answer no, but did 10 out of 11 services there) - he said he will investigate. Did not log a complaint with the MIO yet.

I'm sure most of you have seen the post on the LC forum, but here’s the mail to the dealer principal - apologies, it's a lengthy mail:

After exhausting the normal processes of bringing my vehicle in numerous times to ? Toyota, and going to Toyota SA customer services logging a complaint (about the problem with my vehicle), and Toyota SA’s technical representative having a look at my vehicle last week – I am now totally shocked, absolutely amazed and almost at a loss for words about this situation.

I was about to follow the advice I received from Toyota SA customer service to go to the Motor Industry Ombudsman, but one of their questions is about the response from the dealer principal. So here goes the story.

Problem started at around 90,000km (beginning of 2008 – can’t remember exactly to be honest). When starting the vehicle in the morning (even though it was summer), one could hear a “knocking” noise at around 2000rpm – but only when cold. As soon as the engine reached normal running temperature – could not hear the noise anymore.

This problem was reported to the dealership from day one – but because it was difficult to detect this noise – don’t think that the dealership really made any effort to resolve or find the cause in my opinion to be honest. The first time I brought the vehicle in, it was with no appointment, remember I parked across the service entrance, with Johan and Piet present – but we could not here the noise and I was assured it is fine.

After every service or time that I booked the vehicle in – the report came back that they could not find a problem and that nothing is wrong. Just before the warranty expired, before three years or 100,000km – I actually insisted that somebody from the dealership (I believe it is the workshop test driver) drove with me and I made sure that he heard the same noise. That morning he admitted that he can hear the noise – but again when I picked up the vehicle the feedback was – sorry, no fault found. But I thought – no problem, I have reported the problem and if it becomes worse – I should be fine because it was reported within warranty. I couldn’t have been more wrong!

Same story on the last service – now out of warranty at 110,000 km service. The noise was so loud and obvious by this time. And yet again – sorry sir – there is nothing wrong with your vehicle. But I have had enough – confronted the service advisor, and the best I could get was again to come into the workshop to see Johan a week or what later. He’s advice was that Toyota SA technical representative should have a look at the vehicle.

The noise is now so load, it sounds like there’s a hole in the exhaust – severe loud “knocking” sound. And it’s embarrassing – for me and Toyota. The Toyota SA technical representative “analyzed” the problem last week and diagnosed the injectors as “faulty” and needs to be replaced. But the vehicle is now out of warranty and Toyota SA will only offer R3000 as a goodwill gesture. What a joke! And to top it off, I only have 7 days to accept. That’s what I call arrogant and bully tactics.

I have tried to discuss the situation with Toyota SA – but the best I could do is talk to the customer services department. End of story. I am not allowed to discuss this with anybody else in Toyota. Full stop. And the case is now closed. Arguing about it doesn’t help – Toyota SA has decided that there is nothing more to say or add. “Go to the ombudsman if you don’t like it” – that’s the response I get.

I cannot say how disappointed I am. This cannot be happening and it cannot be true. Because it is a Toyota and I deal with Toyota SA. This is my fifth Toyota in 12 years, and I was looking at the new automatic diesel Hilux. My entire family drives Toyotas – parents, brothers, sister, cousins. It’s simply not possible what’s happening.

I sincerely hope that you will be able “not to pull some strings”, but talk sense into somebody from Toyota SA. It’s a simple problem – it was reported before the warranty expired, but not diagnosed and fixed – if it was, Toyota SA would have paid for the replacement. Simple. Plus there is a problem with these injectors – I understand quite a few are being replaced – to the extent that there’s apparently no stock in the country!

In addition, I’ve been assured that the problem with the injectors would not harm the engine in any way. Somehow I’m not convinced of that also anymore. We can go into the technical theory about timing, atomizing, heat, etc., but that will take another page or two. Bottom line – it’s not good.

Please advice as soon as possible.

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:55 pm

Not a big fan of diesels in general lets say a case of twice bitten thrice shy, but this is unacceptable. Even if it ends up being a matter of principal only don't give up fight them all the way.

Have you logged your complaint at HeloPeter yet? www.hellopeter.com

Good luck I hope you come right soon. Keep us up to speed please.

HennieJ2 · Post by **HennieJ2** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:19 pm

One thing that I forgot to mention, was a warning from the owner at Wildaf Diesel (Brian). Be carefull where and what diesel you fill up with. Dirty diesel (especially water contamination) is an injector killer. Also, try as much possible to use low sulpur (50ppm) diesel. One of the main reasons why Toyota and even other manufacturers waited before they introduced the new generation diesels, was that there were no low sulphur diesel freely available in SA. I believe certain new BMW cars even record if you put in high sulphur diesel and if the memory is downloaded, your warrantee becomes nul and void. Not sure if it is fact, but un-fortunately, if you combine the Toyota diesel filter change intervals with dirty / watery diesel, I suppose we will pick up problems.
Hennie

ToyX4 · Post by **ToyX4** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:52 pm

HennieJ2 wrote:One thing that I forgot to mention, was a warning from the at Wildaf Diesel (Brian). Be carefull where and what diesel you fill up with. Dirty diesel (especially water contamination) is an injector killer. Also, try as much possible to use low sulpur (50ppm) diesel. One of the main reasons why Toyota and even other manufacturers waited before they introduced the new generation diesels, was that there were no low sulphur diesel freely available in SA. I believe certain new BMW cars even record if you put in high sulphur diesel and if the memory is downloaded, your warrantee becomes nul and void. Not sure if it is fact, but un-fortunately, if you combine the Toyota diesel filter change intervals with dirty / watery diesel, I suppose we will pick up problems.
Hennie

True. But then Toyota should not sell their D4D's to boere. Want op die platteland kry ons nie 50ppm diesel nie.
Nearest 50ppm diesel to me is 60km's.

Jacques Joubert · Post by **Jacques Joubert** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:21 am

I have thought about the quality of the diesel and it was one of the factors mentioned by the service manager that could potentialy be responsible for the injector problems. I have used one garage for 90% of my diesel – was a Zenex and now Engen on President Fouche Dr (Northwold). Have never filled up the bakkie at a dodgy place.

Is there a rating for “clean” diesel at service stations and are they regularly quality tested? Zenex used to have Sasol stickers on their pumps – so I assume that I’ve bee using Sasol diesel most of the time.

HennieJ2 · Post by **HennieJ2** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:13 am

Hi Jaques,

Here is a reply on on the same topic on the LCCSA forum:
One of the main reasons one gets a "knocking" noise on a diesel engine is injectors that are over-fueling, which results in lubrication (thin oil layer on cylinder/sleeve walls) being washed away and resulting in excessive wear on both the rings and cylinder/sleeve sides. This then results in a drop of compression, which the main design for ignition is based on for diesel engines. This now where we have an engine failing - low compression, smoking, hard starting , high oil consumption and low on power. As Dirk suggested, a compression test will confirm either the "healthy" or "sick" condition of an engine. The missfire could be of a sticky injector, which makes we worry on what kind of diesel you are running and how clean the diesel is. Normally dirt and water is the main cause for sticky injectors, which on it's turn suggests that water went through the pump and is (according to the fundi's) having severe damage the the new generation CRDi pumps. Not saying this is what is wrong with in your specific case, but it is things that could happen. The sevice / change intervals for fuel filters on the new Toyota's is suspect in my opinion. With our local diesel and the availbility of "cheap" diesel (a mixture of parrafin and oil) one has to take grate care where you fill up. I will check again, but last time I looked, there was a difference on what the service book says on fuel filter changes and on what the service plan dictated.
To come back on your question regarding the cleanliness/type of the fuel you are using:
It is recommended to use low sulphur diesel, but as ToyX4 rightfully says, you should also be able to run on normal (500PPM) diesel as the low sulphur is not readily available.The safer option is fill up at a busy garage, as this ensures a high turn-over of diesel in the mass storage tanks and you do get the advantage of the purging (constant dillution of impurities and reduced opportunities of growing algae). Another tip is to fill up with garages that represents companies that operate in SA - Engen, Total, BP, Sasol, etc. I like filling up at our local co-op (OTK), as they have a high turn-over due to farmers filling up with theit 1000ltr diesel carts.
In my opinion, your vehicle's kilos is to low to have a serious impact on using LS and slightly polluted diesel. I Have mailed my friend at a Toyota dealer, to see if he can help us.
Regards
Hennie

Ou Bloues · Post by **Ou Bloues** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:44 pm

I had the Navara 2.5 DCI 4x4, and with every service I was told I was using the wrong diesel, on the 7500 km service the injectors had to be replaced due to all the damage of the poor diesel.

The fact was that I 90% only used Sasol 50ppm, and with proof of that via banking statements went to Sasol with the propblem. They refunded me all my money that was spend on the replacement. On 30 000km I had the same story.

It just seems that even our best make of diesel is not good enough for the new high pressure Turbo Diesels that we get.

SO I GOT RID OF THE NAVARA AND NOW HAVE A V6 4.0 HILUX 4X4, the amount that I lost on the repares on the diesel makes up for the petrol that I now have to stop for every 450 km.

Spook · Post by **Spook** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:27 am

Ek weet nie hoeveel hierdie storie gaan help nie, maar kom ons probeer: Hier by ons in Nam kry jy mos die ingevoerde D-4D's en die een ou het sy bakkie volgemaak op die konstruksieperseel van hulle padbouoperasie se dieseltenks en nie lank nie, toe begin sy Hilux swakker trek en om dit op te los, toe kry hy die raad om Spanjaard Injector cleaner in die tenke te gooi om die nozzles skoon te maak....ipv om dalk net sy dieselfilter te vervang. Sou toe hoor dat die D-4D se injectors nie leif is vir injector cleaners nie en daarom het die injectors gegroet en moes hy betaal dat hy behoorlik begin sweet het.

HennieJ2 · Post by **HennieJ2** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 9:15 am

So, it seems we (all 3.0D-4D owners) might sit with a problem. Our vehicles seems to be incompatible with the local diesel supply. The question is where-to now and what is the next action? Is there someone on the forum that can forward or even contact a person at Toyota to help us with the problem? Please see if we can sort this out, as I still am of the opinion that the 3.0 D-4D engine is the best product from Toyota, which combines power with fuel economy. Also, can all the fundi's chip in their skills and knowledge to see if we can't come up with a solution, something like putting in additional filters, change the service /replacement intervals of fuel filters, etc. At the end of the day, I will rather pay to have a filter changed say every 10 000km than changing my injectors every now and then, with the obviuos knock-on effects and related costs. Please contact all your friends and connections , PLEASSSEEE!!!!!!

Regards

Hennie

HennieJ2 · Post by **HennieJ2** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:18 pm

Hi All,
I spoke to Brian of Wildaf Diesel today and he confirmed that have to change the complete injector - not only tips as per the older diesels. He quoted me a price of R2 500 / injector, VAT excl. What makes me worry, was that he said that although he has stock, it could change daily, as these items are like hen's teeth. The conclusion that I then comes to, is that these things are high in demand, due to them being frequently changed.
Jacques, he said somebody from the forum phoned him and I am not sure if it is you. I know it does not solve the problem, but at least he is still cheaper than what Toyota's goodwill gesture of R3 000 / injector. It might not be what you want to hear, but if your bakkie is very bad, I would recommend you take it to Brian or any other good shop a.s.a.p, as if your injectors are the cause, you might stand a chance to experience damage to the engine or even to loose the engine. My advice the, fix it and then still fight the battle with Toyota.
In the mean time, our guys of the forum will see what we can come up. I spoke to my friend at our local Toyota dealer and one of the questions that came up, was if you have entered your complains on the jobcard, prior to the expiry of the warrantee and if so, can you get copies of this?
Regards
Hennie

Jacques Joubert · Post by **Jacques Joubert** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:29 pm

I did indeed phone Brian. But, because of the distance to his shop, I went to another authorized Denso dealer much closer. We tested and injectors 2 & 4 are out of spec. Very helpful & friendly – don’t want to name them at this stage. Reason being – they are not suppose to sell directly to public – only to Toyota. And yes they are much cheaper than the R4k quoted to me by Toyota. However, Toyota still has to do the replacement and code the injectors.

And he showed me the box of injectors from D4D’s … a big box. They also just got stock in today, and yes they are moving fast – I will buy tomorrow directly from them if nothing else is resolved through Toyota.

According to them – the problem is all in the diesel quality. But this does not exempt Toyota from the problem – they are involved and should be involved finding a solution to this problem. It only takes one “bad” tank of diesel.

There is proof of my complaints on the written and signed job card I completed when I dropped the vehicle off. The same details however do not appear on the printed version I got after the service. I have requested the original signed copy numerous times, but still no luck …

HennieJ2 · Post by **HennieJ2** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 9:16 pm

Jacques, ja dit is nogalbelangrik om die afskrifte van die geskrewe jobcards in die hande te kry, al weet ek nou nie hoe nie. Miskien moet jy dalk die Helopeter opsie of selfs Beeld se "Tot u Diens" probeer. Intussen kyk ons nog maar wat ons kan vermag.

Groete

Hennie

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:26 pm

Jacques Joubert wrote: According to them – the problem is all in the diesel quality. But this does not exempt Toyota from the problem – they are involved and should be involved finding a solution to this problem. It only takes one “bad” tank of diesel.

I hope your next vehicle has a petrol engine.

HennieJ2 · Post by **HennieJ2** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:43 pm

Ben,
My D4D stap nou aan na 100k km, maar hy my gelukkig nog geen moeilikgeid gegee nie. Ja, ek weet hy het 'n diensplan to 90 gehad, maar selfs op waarborg het ek min goed gedoen. Party dae los ek my wit werk-esel by die huis en gaan werk met die blou lorry, net om myself te spoil. As jy hierdie D4D's eers gery het, sukkel jy om oor die weg te kom met ander goed. Ek's 'n diesel mech by trade en daarom hou ek meer van diesel as petrol en selfs die dae toe ons met Fiat karre op die rally's rond gekarring het, was 'n petrol maar baie meer temperamenteel as diesels. Bougi Cords wat vuur weg gooi, distributors wat haarlyn krakies het, coils wat overheat, carbs wat se floats vas steek, jets wat verstop, ens. ens. Ja, die nuwe generasie goed het dalk nie al die probleme nie maar hulle laat jou nog steeds staan, selfs die nuwe computerised diesels ook. (vra maar die Jeep eienaars) Maar die klank van 'n diesel as jy tussen Moremi en Chobe stop om te "sweet" langs die pad terwyl die engine idle, wel dis 'n klank wat vertroue in boesem.
As ek my wit esel swaai, ja miskien vir 'n petrol, maar daar sal altyd 'n diesel op die werf wees.
Vriendelike "diesel" Groete
Hennie

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:05 pm

Hennie

Soos hulle sê different strokes vir different okes

Vir my maak daii getik van 'n diesel weer senuagtig. Ek worry die heeltyd waneer ek 'n diesel ry waneer sien ek weer net swart bolle agter my en dan staan ek weer iewers in die gramadoelas langs die pad.

Kan ook nie rustig slaap as daar 'n diesel in my garage staan nie.

Daai swart roet op alles, die exhaust fumes wat my neus en sinusse toe trek etc issie vir my nie.

Nee ek ken 'n paar ouens wat ook al probleme opgetel het met slegte diesel by "goeie" garages.

Ek bly maar weer eerder 'n petrol head.

JBurger · Post by **JBurger** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:13 pm

Hi Ben,
ek het KZ bestuur die afgelope 4 jaar. :) :) Twee van hulle en ongelukkig nie lank genoeg om met gesag ‘n goeie getuigskrif te gee oor hulle betroubaarheid nie. Al wat ek moet sê, ek het nie probleme met hulle gehad nie en was toetaal versot op hulle. :D :D

Die eerste was ‘n 2x4 en ek het hom onder andere deur Namibië gevat al met die rivierlope van suid tot bo in Epuppa. Toe weer ‘n ent af. Swaar gelaai, enige diesel wat ons kon kry alhoewel ek meer as ‘n duisend km met my tenk en 4 jerrie kanne kon doen. Het dus nie nodig gehad om by elke klein plekkie te stop nie hoewel Twyfelfontein my twee keer moes volmaak, met die opgaan en in die area.
Dit alles help jou niks nie, jy sit steeds met ‘n probleem.

Dit laat my dink, as die spruitstukke so in aanvraag is, dan moet daar tog sekerlik ‘n saak wees vir nog ‘n ‘Fortuner’ tipe druk groep en dan moet Toyota tog die een of die ander tyd luister. Die feit is, ek het ook ‘n Fortuner bestel (diesel), maar dit gekanselleer toe ek na my ag maande wagtydperk gaan ondersoek instel oor my vordering in die waglys. Wat ek gevind het, het my laat omdraai met ‘n gekanselleerde bestelling.

:evil: :evil: Nou na al die drama met die F se padhouvermoë, is ek innerlik baie bly daaroor. :) :) Die punt is, ek was in murg en been ‘n Toyota man. Baie van die 4x4 manne ry die Hilux of Cruiser agv hulle goeie reputasie, maar hulle platkarre was eintlik BMW’s of iets dergliks. Nie ek nie, al my rygoed was Toyota. Vandag is my platkar ‘n Passat (diesel???), maar my punt is dat Toyota dit reggekry het om my twee keer te laat dink voor ek koop (en ja ek weet, baie ouens sal sê, “ook nie baie goed gedink nie”

) presies oor Toyota vergeet het dat hulle met mense werk, nie voertuie nie. :evil: :evil: Ek het baie keer van hulle werkwinkels weg gekom met ‘n gevoel van onsekerheid of ek regtig moet glo wat hulle vir my gesê het. Ek kom van die plaas af en is tegnies en weet gou as iemand besig is om bubbles te hap as hy probeer om iets te verduidelik wat hyself nie verstaan nie.
Punt is, ek kon eerder R270 000 spandeer aan ‘n redelik lekker Toyota, as hulle nie so ‘n stink houding gehad het nie.

Wie anders het nie onlangs dieselfde gedoen nie? Kom ons vra die vraag en neem die feite na Toyota. Ek voel so sterk hieroor, ek sal definitief nie my bakkie na hulle vat nie, ek sal eerder vir ouens soos JB (Kaapstad) ondersteun voor ek ooit weer afhanklik van Toyota wil wees. Ek wonder ook baie sterk of daar nie ‘n ander alternatief is vir die bos as Toyota nie. Die jury is nog uit op daai een, maar ek moet vir jou sê, die probleem wat jy tans het, is besig om die stem te laat swaai...
Ek weet nie hoe ek kan help nie, maar ek sal definitief ‘n petisie teken of iets dergeliks om te kyk of mens nie kan deurdring tot die swape nie.
Groete,
JB Burger

ToyX4 · Post by **ToyX4** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:21 pm

JBurger wrote:Hi Ben,
ek het KZ bestuur die afgelope 4 jaar. :) :) Twee van hulle en ongelukkig nie lank genoeg om met gesag ‘n goeie getuigskrif te gee oor hulle betroubaarheid nie. Al wat ek moet sê, ek het nie probleme met hulle gehad nie en was toetaal versot op hulle. :D :D Die eerste was ‘n 2x4 en ek het hom onder andere deur Namibië gevat al met die rivierlope van suid tot bo in Epuppa. Toe weer ‘n ent af. Swaar gelaai, enige diesel wat ons kon kry alhoewel ek meer as ‘n duisend km met my tenk en 4 jerrie kanne kon doen. Het dus nie nodig gehad om by elke klein plekkie te stop nie hoewel Twyfelfontein my twee keer moes volmaak, met die opgaan en in die area.
Dit alles help jou niks nie, jy sit steeds met ‘n probleem. Dit laat my dink, as die spruitstukke so in aanvraag is, dan moet daar tog sekerlik ‘n saak wees vir nog ‘n ‘Fortuner’ tipe druk groep en dan moet Toyota tog die een of die ander tyd luister. Die feit is, ek het ook ‘n Fortuner bestel (diesel), maar dit gekanselleer toe ek na my ag maande wagtydperk gaan ondersoek instel oor my vordering in die waglys. Wat ek gevind het, het my laat omdraai met ‘n gekanselleerde bestelling. :evil: :evil: Nou na al die drama met die F se padhouvermoë, is ek innerlik baie bly daaroor. :) :) Die punt is, ek was in murg en been ‘n Toyota man. Baie van die 4x4 manne ry die Hilux of Cruiser agv hulle goeie reputasie, maar hulle platkarre was eintlik BMW’s of iets dergliks. Nie ek nie, al my rygoed was Toyota. Vandag is my platkar ‘n Passat (diesel???), maar my punt is dat Toyota dit reggekry het om my twee keer te laat dink voor ek koop (en ja ek weet, baie ouens sal sê, “ook nie baie goed gedink nie” ) presies oor Toyota vergeet het dat hulle met mense werk, nie voertuie nie. :evil: :evil: Ek het baie keer van hulle werkwinkels weg gekom met ‘n gevoel van onsekerheid of ek regtig moet glo wat hulle vir my gesê het. Ek kom van die plaas af en is tegnies en weet gou as iemand besig is om bubbles te hap as hy probeer om iets te verduidelik wat hyself nie verstaan nie.
Punt is, ek kon eerder R270 000 spandeer aan ‘n redelik lekker Toyota, as hulle nie so ‘n stink houding gehad het nie. Wie anders het nie onlangs dieselfde gedoen nie? Kom ons vra die vraag en neem die feite na Toyota. Ek voel so sterk hieroor, ek sal definitief nie my bakkie na hulle vat nie, ek sal eerder vir ouens soos JB (Kaapstad) ondersteun voor ek ooit weer afhanklik van Toyota wil wees. Ek wonder ook baie sterk of daar nie ‘n ander alternatief is vir die bos as Toyota nie. Die jury is nog uit op daai een, maar ek moet vir jou sê, die probleem wat jy tans het, is besig om die stem te laat swaai...
Ek weet nie hoe ek kan help nie, maar ek sal definitief ‘n petisie teken of iets dergeliks om te kyk of mens nie kan deurdring tot die swape nie.
Groete,
JB Burger

Ware woorde die.

Ek het vandag n Ford Ranger gekoop. Te danke aan Toyota.
Het self gese ek sal nie weer my geld daar spandeer nie.

JBurger · Post by **JBurger** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:51 pm

Jissie Riaan,

Jy weet natuurlik wat dit beteken? Op die manier gaan Toyota die forum doodmaak. As almal ander goed gaan koop, dan kan ons dit nie meer die Hilux 4x4 noem nie!!!

ToyX4 · Post by **ToyX4** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 12:14 am

JBurger wrote:Jissie Riaan,

Jy weet natuurlik wat dit beteken? Op die manier gaan Toyota die forum doodmaak. As almal ander goed gaan koop, dan kan ons dit nie meer die Hilux 4x4 noem nie!!!

Nee wat. Freedom of speech en al daai dinge. En die mods kan mos maar delete as hulle wil.

En omdat n paar ouens ontevrede is met Toyota, gaan almal nie ophou Toyota koop nie.
En Toyota weet dit, en ek reken dit bekommer hulle nie baie nie. Vir elke ou wat nie n Toyota wil koop nie is daar n hele klomp ander wat wel Toy koop.

En ek ry darem nog my SFA Hilux ook.

Op die injector topic -
Ek gaan maar elke 10 000km diens vir die Ford n nuwe diesel filter insit. Net so vir die wis en onwis. Dink Ford spesifiseer 30 000km. Hoop dit sal my kanse verbeter om nie probleme te kry nie.

Die Hilux D4D(2.5) het ek nou net so oor die 37 000 km opgesit vandat ek hom 2ehands gekoop het. Die Polo 1.9 TDi wat ook nou verkoop is, het in 2 jaar 53 000 km geloop.
Altwee het ek seker 98% van die tyd diesel by ons plaaslike BP depot ingegooi.
In die gesamentlike 90 000 km wat die 2 karre geloop het, het ek nog nie moeilikheid gehad nie. En die polo kry nou op sy volgende diens(60 000km) vir die eerste keer n nuwe dieselfilter.
In my onkunde het ek nie veel ag geslaan op die dinge nie. Maar die forum en 4x4community forum het my oe oopgemaak vir sulke dinge, daarom dat ek die ou Ford maar elke 10 000km n skoon dieselfilter sal gee, en hoop vir die beste.

ToyX4 · Post by **ToyX4** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 12:22 am

Nog n ding.

Het gou in die Ford owners manual gekyk wat se hulle van diesel.
Hulle "recommend" 50ppm waar moontlik, maar se nie dis n MOET nie.

Al wat hulle wel se is n MOET is - "never use fuel other than specification SANS342 or equivalent...."

Ja, ek weet. Die is n Toyota gesprek.

Sal more kyk wat se Toyota vir die D4D, maar ek reken dit kan naby aan dieselfde wees.

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 7:35 am

Riaan

My Ma hulle se Ford 2.5 moes al twee keer hulle pomp laat diens by Northern Diesel teen R 4K+ nadat die ding nie wou ophou rook (of laat ek eerser sê roet uitspoeg) na hulle vuil diesel in 500PPM pompe ingegooi het nie. Die een keer het ek persoonlik die diesel by die BP Garage by die Wild Coast Sun in Natal ingegooi die aand voor ons huistoe gekom het. In Pta aangekom was daar 'n pikswart roet neerslag op die karavaan gewees.

Die ander keer was iewers uit 'n Sasol pomp in die noord Kaap.

So wees maar versigtig waar jy diesel ingooi.

O ja JB moenie worry nie ouens wat petrol engines ry sal by Hiluxe bly ons het nie reliability issues nie.

As ek op die tyd to ek my Pajero gekoop het R 150K ekstra gehad het het ek seker eerder 'n Prado gekoop maar ek kon net nie een bekostig het nie.

HennieJ2 · Post by **HennieJ2** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:04 pm

Jacques,
Have you had any luck with Toyota and obtaining copies of the hand-written jobcards? What is the latest on the injectors, smoking, etc?
Regards
Hennie

pompy · Post by **pompy** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:09 pm

Hier in my klein Middelandse dorpie het ons n Shell garage met low s diesel - ek hat daar met die low s vol gemaak tot op 80 000kms tot my werkgewer vir my se om weer normale diesel te gebruik! Ek is nou nog geirriteerd want nou bly my engineolie ook nie meer so skoon nie.
Ek het eenkeer water in my tenk gekry vanaf die stasie en dit was tydens hoe reenval - die brandstofliggie op die instrumentpaneel het begin flikker waarna ek direk Toyota toe is - daar gebloei en die mech se toe vir my dat as die pomp gaan dit R25 000 gaan kos. Blykbaar gebeur dit gereeld met die Quantum bestuurders...
Verder as die bakkie in die mores start loop die motor bietjie ongelyk vir so 5 sekondes en daarna egalig.
Maar andersins loop die bakkie baie goed en ek het nog nooit swart rook gesien uitkom nie. Inteendeel, trek my 2.5ie beter as ander 2.5e wat ek al gery het - seker al die lang afstande wat als skoon hou..??
Het nou die dag n trippel-as karavaan gesleep en elke laaste kw en nm uit die bakkie gewurg op n warm dag - en daar was nie n kolletjie roet op die karavaan nie.
Aangaande die dieselfilter-issue - ek dink ook dis belaglik dat dit nie gereeld vervang word nie.
Ek het al aangedring op vervanging waarop ek moes hoor dat daar nie voorraad was nie!
Uiteindelik is dit op 90 000kms vervang vir n R100 en iets rand - dis mos nie geld nie!!

Jacques Joubert · Post by **Jacques Joubert** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 8:41 pm

Well, no “real” update on this issue. Bakkie is going in for injector replacement 17th Dec, would have liked earlier – but it seems that everybody is servicing their vehicles before they go on leave, so that’s the first slot I could get a 2 day booking – because apparently that’s how long it takes. Who’s going to pay for it … the dealership is not offering to pay for all of it, although I am of the opinion that they should. Depending on the outcome, I just might list them in the bad service section – because this is really their fault!

We talked about trading in my bakkie for a new vehicle with the understanding they offer me a really good deal … got better offers from other dealers … they’re just not coming to the party, they don’t really care about my situation and probably hoping that if they ignore me I would go away … takes real effort on my part to talk to the dealer principal (although I have to admit he did return some calls) and talking about the issue or making plans to resolve it.

With the Fortuners going for a really good price, I’m considering either 4.0 auto Fortuner (new) or second hand 4.0 auto Prado. But I’m concerned about the fuel consumption. Will search the forum to find what other members get on their vehicles. Getting 12,5 km/l with my 3.0 D4D.

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:00 pm

Leon Theron, Senior Manager: Technical Services at TSA says in Toyota Zone: "Toyota makes sure that even customers who go against the grain and fill their vehicles with 500ppm are somewhat more protected than usual. We've developed a new protection system for our injectors in the Hilux known as the Diamond Coating.The coating attempts to prevent the first cause of failure in high sulphur diesel fueled engines, injector failure"

In the same article it is said that Sasol has developed a synthetic fuel that uses alternative lubricants to sulphur.

JBurger · Post by **JBurger** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:20 pm

With the Fortuners going for a really good price, I’m considering either 4.0 auto Fortuner (new) or second hand 4.0 auto Prado. But I’m concerned about the fuel consumption. Will search the forum to find what other members get on their vehicles. Getting 12,5 km/l with my 3.0 D4D.

I am getting 6.12 km/l average with best figures of 9 on the open road and 5 (worst) on the Prado VX...

Spook · Post by **Spook** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:38 pm

Hehe!!! Ek het my 3.0D-4D gesmous en vir my 'n diesel Land Cruiser 70 Wagon gekoop.

Jacques Joubert · Post by **Jacques Joubert** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:10 pm

En ek tel my Fortuner 4.0 op net voor Kersfees op Montagu ...

ThysdJ · Post by **ThysdJ** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:12 pm

Jacques Joubert wrote:En ek tel my Fortuner 4.0 op net voor Kersfees op Montagu ...

Hopelik met 'n ou kissie muskadel in die boot??

Jacques Joubert · Post by **Jacques Joubert** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:27 pm

Kaspaas wrote:
Jacques Joubert wrote:En ek tel my Fortuner 4.0 op net voor Kersfees op Montagu ...
Hopelik met 'n ou kissie muskadel in die boot??

Dis mos gawe mense daai van Montagu :) sal sommer 'n tenkvol kry

Wonder hoe daai 4.0 sal brul met muskadel as poeier

ThysdJ · Post by **ThysdJ** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:31 pm

Jacques Joubert wrote:Wonder hoe daai 4.0 sal brul met muskadel as poeier

skyt skyt die bult yt...

HennieJ2 · Post by **HennieJ2** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:17 pm

Guys,

I know most of you are following this on the Landcruiser website, but for you who don't, here is some interesting and important info - they are also experiencing problems with their D4D injectors and diesel

Regards
Hennie

Gary Stockton Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:02 pm Post subject: Re: Help Please: 3.0 D-4D Hilux Injector Problems

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

See this fred:

Toyota Land Cruiser Owners UK

Still looking for the recal notice....

Gary Stockton Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:27 pm Post subject: Re: Help Please: 3.0 D-4D Hilux Injector Problems

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry - just seen this thread here now. In the UK, Toyota have issued a re-call on the D4D injectors of a certain age (not sure what that is, but can find out.) This is a HUGE issue here - lot's of folk complaining about the noise from the engine - some even selling the vehicle because of it. Someone here will need to see if Toyota SA are subjet to the same recall - I'll find the relevant ref and post again.

On the fuel front, the recommendation here is to use the very best diesel you can get on a D4D.

Bear in mind that there is a special 'warm-up' ECU sequence that runs when the engine is cold that gets it up to operating temps quickly, and is very noisy. But that noise goes away when operating temp. is reached - and it's sudden, like a switch being thrown...

Will go look for the recall notice now....

HennieJ2 · Post by **HennieJ2** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:02 pm

Hi Everybody,

I have sent a mail through the Toyo web site regarding our complain. Here is the response:
Dear Hennie Jackson

Thank you for your email.

Kindly be advised that Toyota SA does not have any information on D4D injector failures and there is no recall on any vehicle.

We do acknowledge your concern, kindly forward the following vehicle details in order for us to be able to escalate the matter further for investigation.

-Vehicle VIN (vehicle identification number) this can be found on your license disk or book of life.
-Registration number.
-Current mileage

-Your contact number
-Postal address
-Identification Number

Your matter will be actioned once all the relevant information has been received.

For further assistance and a more personalized approach around your concerns, please feel free to contact us on 011 809 9111 or 0800 139 111, a friendly consultant will explain the process around your matter, and advise you on the best way forward.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Thanks and Kind regards

David Semenya
Customer Service Division
Toyota SA
0800139111
(011)8099111
www.toyota.co.za

Now, if you look at how many has already being changed under warrantee, it is strange that Toyota don't know about any injector problems.

So, if any of you are interested in taking this further, please PM me all the details they require and I will forward it to them.

Regards

Hennie

Jacques Joubert · Post by **Jacques Joubert** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 7:46 am

HennieJ2 wrote:Kindly be advised that Toyota SA does not have any information on D4D injector failures and there is no recall on any vehicle.

What bloody nonsense !!! Nou is ek sommer weer van voor af die moer in !!!

I’ve PM’d you my details Hennie, thanks a million.

HennieJ2 · Post by **HennieJ2** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 8:08 am

Now that's what you call "Volstruis Taktiek"(Ostrich tactics for the English) - stick your head in a hole in the ground and pretend nothing is wrong.........
Jacques, I have forwarded all your detail and I am awaiting response. Will keep you and the forum posted.
Regards
Hennie

HennieJ2 · Post by **HennieJ2** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 8:27 am

Guys,

Here is what Toyota say on their ToyoCare website. I have added a PDF of what fuels are recommended, but guess what? They view 500PPM diesel as low sulphur and 50 PPM as Ultra low sulphur. So, what now, does this mean the 500 PPM is good enough for Toyota diesel systems?

This looks like I can go to Bots again next year with my D4D........

Copied and Pasted:
Why you should use ultra low sulphur diesel in your Toyota?
All diesel fuels contain a certain amount of sulphur. Unfortunately sulphur is a major contributor to engine wear and corrosion. However you can minimise this process and extend the life of your car, by changing to a diesel fuel with a lower sulphur content.
The current diesel sulphur levels in South Africa are ten times higher than the amount permitted in Europe. However fuel companies are in the process of creating diesel fuels that conform to European standards. This is good news for drivers, as modern diesel engines are designed to run on low sulphur diesel.

The advantages of using ultra low sulphur diesel (50 parts per million or lower) include:
Reduced exhaust emissions
Improved exhaust catalyst performance
Reduced engine wear
Reduced diesel injector wear
Extended lubricant life

By using low sulphur diesel, you won't only be reducing your car's long-term maintenance costs, but you'll also be protecting the environment by reducing the amount of harmful CO2 emissions from your vehicle.

Toyota South Africa Motors recommend that the best possible grade of diesel fuel is used in all our diesel vehicles. This is more applicable to the new generation RAV4 diesel and Avensis diesel each being Euro step 4 emission control models.

HennieJ2 · Post by **HennieJ2** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:25 pm

Is this Toyota SA???

Guys, did forward the info and got this reply back. (See bottom of posting) I don't know what has happened, but:
a) 1st the guy says he don't know about injector failures and
b) then he tells me - case closed, take to me the ombuds man
c) Toyota has an article in the Toyo Zone about an additive that they have developed the prevent prematue injector failure - why, if there ain't any
d) Pump rooms (reputable ones and not the one where the opposite sex works) reports failures on D4D injectors
e) We hear from guys on the forum that had their injectors changed under warrantee

Maybe my 2+2 that gets me to 4 is wrong...........

Copied and pasted from Toyo SA's mail:
Dear Hennie Jackson

Thank you for your email.

Kindly be advised that the matter has been investigated and the case has been closed, Toyota SA have issued you with the letter regarding the stance and you were also advised to contact the Motor Industry Ombudsman shoul you still be dissastified.

For more information, please contact our Customer Contact Center on 0800 139 111.

Thank you for your time and enjoy the rest of the day.

Kind regards,

David Semenya
Customer Service Division
Toyota SA
0800139111
(011)8099111

Outed from the LCCSA forum

Your opinion please

ToyX4 · Post by **ToyX4** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:29 pm

Kyk, ek hou nie van daai maat se toon waarmee hy die e-mail skryf nie!
Wonder of hy dieselfde toon sal gebruik as n boer voor hom staan en hy moet vir die boer se "case closed"

Soos met die "Fortuner saga", gaan die maar net oor Rand en sent vir Toyota. Daar is diusende D4D's op die pad, en as hulle no erken daar is n fout, jaag elke D4D eienaar na sy handelaar en soek nuwe injectors!
Dan is daar nog die groot TOYOTA verkoper nl REPUTASIE ook waaraan die knape dink.

Ek dink dis swak van Toyota om n probleem te ontken(indien daar wel een is-al is dit net op n spesifieke voertuig) En dan is dit ook uiters swak om so n enkele probleem af te maak as "case closed"

Bly ek is klaar met Toyota.

Jacques Joubert · Post by **Jacques Joubert** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:31 am

HennieJ2 wrote:c) Toyota has an article in the Toyo Zone about an additive that they have developed the prevent prematue injector failure - why, if there ain't any

Hennie,

Where in the ToyoZone can I find this artcicle?

JBurger · Post by **JBurger** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:39 am

This is not the Toyota I have been so faithful to for 25 years. I will take what my Toyota will give me and then vouch never to buy a Toyota again. As I said before, we already swapped the Camry (after 13 years of good service) for a new 2.2 Passat. You can quote me on this.

HennieJ2 · Post by **HennieJ2** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:26 am

Hi All,

I am trying to scan it in and if succesfull, I will comment on article. It is on P32 of the Nov/Dec 2008 Toyota Zone

HennieJ2 · Post by **HennieJ2** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:40 am

Sorry, quality very bad. I have it on PDF, but nearly 2 MB big. Any advise?

HennieJ2 · Post by **HennieJ2** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:53 am

Diesel Article Toyota Zone p32 Nov_Dec 08.doc: (106 KiB) Downloaded 380 times

Let's hope Word works better - seems it does. Now for my opinion:
1) If a services(senior) manager of the technical dept. says "All diesel needs sulphur" - why is so bad then for the injectors? After all, guys who makes diesel do so for diesel engines and also injector designers design for diesel?
2)They (TOYOTA) are not importanting certain diesels on the world market due to our SA Govmnt. specification of 500ppm diesel. Why wass the D4D's then launched in SA?
3)There is no 50ppm available in let's say 70% of the country - why is then recommended to fill only with 50ppm and if sulphur "lubricates" parts and "all diesel needs sulphur", why is then bad to fill with 500 ppm?
4) Was the target market for all D4D's then only aimed at the city slickers? Does this then mean that we are not suppose to use them in rural SA, Botswana and the rest of Africa? Why didn't Toyota warned us about this when we purchased our D4D's? We could then maybe have bought Isuszu's, Tata's and even Randlover's (sorry Landrover people - said tung-in-cheeck)
5) Is it safe to say that you only develope a cure/ protection system for something that needs it - why was a product developed to protect the Hilux's injectors? Surely, before it was launched, Toyota knew what type of diesel and where it was available in Southern Africa.
Lastly, how can a consumer / cutomer relations department say they don't know of any problems and then the next moment say sorry - we have informed you of our decision: take us to the ombudsman.

I am wondering if I should keep my D4D, as the main reasom I bought it was to explore not only my own country, but Southern Africa and we always said that Africa is Toyota Country - What happened Toyota, don't you need us any more?

Hennie Jackson

Post by **Family_Dog** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:57 am

Hennie, try uploading it as a PDF file instead of a jpg. Also, try scan without the picture in, that's wasted kB.

If you still don't come right, possibly retype it?

-F_D

HennieJ2 · Post by **HennieJ2** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:16 pm

Thanks Eric, I just added it in Word format. If there is a problem reading or opening the attachment, please mail me or let me know, and I will forward it to you.
Regards

Hennie
henniej2@telkomsa.net

Post by **Family_Dog** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:34 pm

Word doc seems fine, everyone should be able to read this :)

I also have the original in Toyota Zone, which in general is an interesting magazine.

-F_D

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:11 pm

Hennie What PDF writer were you using. Try downloading PrimoPDF (http://www.tucows.com/preview/519512). Nice Program and it is 4 3 2

.

If you select the quality for screen viewing it should reduce the size considerably. The resolution on your scanner is maybe set high but if you then print the document over with PrimoPDF that should reduce the size a lot.

Jacques Joubert · Post by **Jacques Joubert** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:16 am

Update:

Well, I’ve picked up my bakkie yesterday from Honeydew Toyota and all is fine again, engine is running smoothly with no knocking noise :D

Hats off to Honeydew Toyota

for carrying out the repair on their “own warranty” – which basically means they paid for it, not Toyota SA.

Question now is – is there any point in taking Toyota SA to the Motor Industry Ombudsman still? Would the MIO also consider this case closed because the vehicle has been repaired?

HennieJ2 · Post by **HennieJ2** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 8:40 am

Jacques, I am very glad your problem is solved and, no, it won't bear any fruit if you still take Toyota to the OM. What is a total eye opener to me is Toyota SA's attitude towards the problem. They might be under the impression that they have morons buying their product, but that's an insult to their own intelegance, since only clever guys knew that Toyota USED to be the beter product on the market. I was in the market for a single cab D4D 4x4, but has since changed my mind, not only on behalf of the price (R286k), but also due to the possible injector problems. I have temorarily invested in a 2nd hand VW R5 Touareg, until I can get my hands on a better Touareg or a good petrol Cruiser.

If you look back on some of the replies, also on your tread at the LCCSA forum, a few people has changed their minds about the Hilux. It will not bite them now, but in the long run they will be alienating enough of our private deals to make a difference in their sales. The mere developement of an additive for the Hilux diesel, is proof enough that they are well aware of the problems with the D4D's. Finally, I and maybe you too, must admit, once the 3.0D4D is going, it is going GOOD!! I still remain of the opinion, that this is the 1st engine developed that has enough power, combined with good fuel efficiency.
Cheers

Hennie

Post by **Family_Dog** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 8:40 am

+I tried re-scanning it, difficult because of the proximity of the text to the binding of the magazine - I didn't want to destroy my mag by cutting the page out, but between my version and Heniie's you can make it out.

Edit: Oops... corrected the upside down scan ;)

Edit again: Take 2...

-F_D

HennieJ2 · Post by **HennieJ2** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 9:37 pm

Thanks Eric, at least everybody can now read their(Toyota"s) contradictary comments......

HennieJ2 · Post by **HennieJ2** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:17 pm

Sorry to report back bad news. It appears that this is a worldwide problem and for those who don't follow the same thread on the LCCSA forum here are some links to confirm that the D4D injectors are problematic. Must admit, it made a serious dent into my confidence of my bakkie.

A 100 page thread, started in 2005 on D-4D woes tsikot.yehey.com/forum...c8&t=23197

Some more noise here http://www.motorsm.com/compla...efault.asp eg http://www.motorsm.com/compla...p?aid=2987

http://www.motorsm.com/compla...p?aid=1927

http://www.autolanka.com/foru...topic=5246

http://www.pradopoint.com/vie...php?t=3701

http://www.pradopoint.com/vie...=12&t=3107

Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:56 am Post subject: Re: Help Please: 3.0 D-4D Hilux Injector Problems

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.pradopoint.com/vie...=12&t=4192
_________________
JT - 84' FJ40 - IAA40SAYCJF

And another new thread here:

Blown D4D

Maybe not too encouraging, but all sorts of useful info coming to the surface.

Thanks Jonathan and Gary, I have read some of these valuable threads and it appears that this injector problem is experienced world wide. Just seriously dented the confidence in my bakkie.
I spoke to a friend that works in the parts divisoin and he can't understand why Toyo is denying the problem, as they have been (according to him) exchanged plenty of injectors on warrantee . Maybe they are afraid of a class action, same as what the Fortuner guys are planning regarding the handling issues.

Rampie · Post by **Rampie** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:46 pm

Ramkat is just back from his 70 000km service with the good news that Toyota will replace injectors 1 & 3 which are out of spec. I saw the test results showing 3.4 and 3.1 for those two and 1.0 and 1.1 for the other two - dunno if that was a psi measurement or otherwise.

Questions are if the injectors have been pumping 3x the normal quantity of diesel into the engine thereby causing excessive engine wear? Does it mean the other two is bound to go out soon as the warranty is about to lapse?