Bad starting on cold mornings

[Tinman]

hey guys
im having a lil trouble with my 2.4 TD
when cold it takes ages to start and when it does it blows grey smoke for about 5 seconds then goes clear and normalises but its anoying having to sit there turning it over for ages, currently im having 2 leave the iggnition on for about 20 seconds then turn the key for it to start quicker. it has brand new glow plugs.
anyideas?
cheers

[Mr_B]

I'm no diesel fundi... but it sounds like your glow plugs are not heating up properly? If so it could be a wiring fault/short/bad earth?

Or perhaps a faulty relay?

B

[Tinman]

yeah thats what i thought so friday night is gopnna be tacking every contact off and making them shine!!!
because at the moment i cant make a quick get away for when the police are after me (or the missus)

[Mr_B]

yeah thats what i thought so friday night is gopnna be tacking every contact off and making them shine!!!
because at the moment i cant make a quick get away for when the police are after me (or the missus)

you got the wrong motor in there for a quick gettaway... 7MGE or Lexus V8 would do the trick!

[Tinman]

i know i would love to do the engine swap, however time and resources do not permit.
i cleaned the main terminal onto the glow plugs and iv put in a new fuse, so i will let you know if that makes a change because when i did it the engine was still warm.
a mate of mine said just put a relay in and have a second line run to the plugs so as they can get the current.
id prefer not to but unless i can find the problem i don't see many other options, because i really don't want to take it anywhere because most diesel places here charge an arm and a leg for anything.

[Tinman]

still no change, im currently trying a high quality injector cleaner,
if that fails to deliver any impovements ill try running a leed from the battery to them and then get someone to turn the key and see if it makes an impovement, if this does ill just have a switch on the dash to a relay, because the wiring for the glow plugs is very hard to get to, very very hard

[Mud Dog]

It sounds like the glow plugs are not heating up fast enough. This could indicate an electrical fault like a voltage drop due to a dry joint or something. Perhaps the contacts inside the relay are burnt, swop the relay out and also check the contacts on the glow plug fuse.
Meantime till you get it sorted you will just have to remain law-abiding

[JohanM]

Hard starting on diesels are caused by some or all of the following so I would suggest you start to check it out.

Leaking injectors that drips overnight.
Pump timing set incorrectly (to fast or to slow)
Glow plugs and relay incorrect (size & rating)
Blow by in engine
Damaged precombustion chambers.

I would advise you to have the injectors serviced with new injector tips and washers.
Check that the relay and timer for the glowplugs actually work.

Also see that when you start it, you turn the engine the first time after the timer has switched off, approx 5 - 15 seconds, so that the pre combustion chamber is warm enough to start smoothly.

[Tinman]

found the problem.
the glow plugs are not getting enough current because i ran a cable from the battery to them and got my dad to turn the key and whala started like that and it hadnt been started in 2 days and it was a cold day.
so 2 options find where the problem is in the electricks
or just have a button on the dash to a relay,
option two probably for now, and it acts as a second bit of security if the engines cold.
and then i have a button that says engine start which always looks kool

[Tinman]

also where is the glow plug relay? i went looking and found every other one.

[Mud Dog]

also where is the glow plug relay?

Not familiar with the diesels, but would imagine if you don't see it monted on the firewall or inner fender walls it would likely be in the main fuse box under the hood. If not there, then perhaps inside under the dash. Can you not try following the wiring?

[Tinman]

its not in the fuse box or that i can see in the fenders, cant really follow the wiring because in a surf there is enough wiring to spend a lifetime following.

[Mud Dog]

I would imagine that glow plugs are a high energy drawing component and so would surely be connected with thicker wire direct to the battery but activated with a relay. Have you found the relative fuse? Are it's contacts clean and good? If you locate the wire (under or behind the fuse box) that comes out after the fuse and try follow that, it should lead you to the relay. It may lead straight back into the box under a relay in the box. That would then be the one. Good luck.

[Tinman]

yeah iv changed and clean the fuse, the wires just go back into a massive loom of wires.

[Mr_B]

All else fails Stuart... wait till later in the day when it's no longer a cold morning...

B

[Tinman]

its getting into cold allday long now so i might be waiting a while.
its all wired in im just waiting for the battery to charge, because of it tacking long to start its been slowly killing the batt.

[Jaws]

quote="Tinman"]its not in the fuse box or that I can see in the fenders, cant really follow the wiring because in a surf there is enough wiring to spend a lifetime following.[/quote]


It is inside a silver metal box located in the passenger side foot well underneath the plastic cover.

You will just need to remove the plastic cover on the left side of the passage foot well.

The unit has a timing system inside that energizes the glow plugs for a certain time when the engine is cold.

On my old 2.4D the unit also failed after allot of years. I did exactly what everybody suggested here. I added a relay with manual push button inside the cab. On cold mornings I just pressed the button for 15s before starting the car.

I knew where it was because when it was still working I could actually hear the relay energize as the glow plugs goes on and off.

[Tinman]

all wired in and done, and gues what it started just like that,
now i can make a quicker gettaway

[Family_Dog]

all wired in and done, and gues what it started just like that,
now i can make a quicker gettaway

... which is important if you're a bank robber...


-F_D

[Tinman]

if i was a bank robber id want more than a 2.4td under the bonnet.