What Lockers would you fit to a SFA, and why?

DOELLOOS · Post by **DOELLOOS** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:10 am

This thread is an attempt to get Forum Members' expert opinions as to what the best locker package would be considering price, durability and overall practical usability.

The two I am considering for my rear import diff is:
ARB = R15,000 per diff
Detroit = R7,500 per diff

I am leaning towards the Detroit for the rear because it is apparently bulletproof, and it supposedly works well. Plus at the price it makes sense.

Let the debate begin...

:wth:

Bosfebok · Post by **Bosfebok** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:16 am

Stay with Toyota original locker for the SFA... post 98 all SFA diff locks are of these type, like the ones on the Fortuner.. They don't give any hassle, they are fully selectable and electric..

My opinion.. stay with Toyota..

DOELLOOS · Post by **DOELLOOS** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:23 am

Would these work on the import diffs? And where would one get them? Toyota dealers? Do you have any idea on price?

Jaco Versfeld · Post by **Jaco Versfeld** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:33 am

I do have an "automatic" difflock in the front diff of Mufasa (SFA). I don't know which make though, I bought Mufasa with the difflock installed. It took me some time to get accustomed to it. I would prefer a selectable diff lock, because my main aim with the Hilux is to do overlanding trips. When we did Kaokoveld last December, it was a bit frustrating, because I had to switch between 4wd and 2wd the whole time, which frustrated the other vehicle as they had to wait for me quite a lot. Apparently you are not supposed to drive faster than 40km/h with these automatic difflocks.

Doing trails like Berakah though, I really enjoy the difflock. It is immediately "activated" when you select 4wd (I had some problems with my previous IFS where the rear lock didn't wan't to engage).

In the end, it boils down to what you want to do. I cannot motivate to myself to fit an ARB locker which costs half of my bakkie. If you drive competitions though, I would not go for anything else. Some guys mentioned that you can fit Toyota lockers to the import diff and Gearmax lockers to the local diff at more reasonable prices and these are selectable. This is an option that I would pursue, as I do not intend on driving competitions. If I was only driving trails, I would go for an automatic locker such as the Detroit.

Pype · Post by **Pype** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:39 am

V8 Interceptor wrote:Would these work on the import diffs? And where would one get them? Toyota dealers? Do you have any idea on price?

Yes I have one on a import they cost about R4500 to R6500 per diff If you need contact details of some one that does them give me a shout

Post by **CasKru** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:40 am

IT might not be the cheapest but ARB is probably the best

Bosfebok · Post by **Bosfebok** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:47 am

R15k per diff for ARB vs 6k per diff for the Toyota Electric lockers :!:

If you do not do trials or competitions, then that makes a huge difference... if you fit the Toyota lockers on both diffs, then you have 18K left for some other stuff... You can fit a custom bumber, with a winch, and even maybe a drawer system for that moneys... just makes more money sense to me... :problem:

Post by **CasKru** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:56 am

Bosfebok wrote:R15k per diff for ARB vs 6k per diff for the Toyota Electric lockers :!:

If you do not do trials or competitions, then that makes a huge difference... if you fit the Toyota lockers on both diffs, then you have 18K left for some other stuff... You can fit a custom bumber, with a winch, and even maybe a drawer system for that moneys... just makes more money sense to me... :problem:

AFAIK you need to cut and weld when you want to fit Toyota Electric lockers

Pype · Post by **Pype** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:22 am

My 2c Toyota Electric lockers is the way to go ARB is overpriced and Automatic lockers is not for me.

Unless you are a financial giant then go for ARB.

DOELLOOS · Post by **DOELLOOS** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:32 am

Pype wrote:Unless you are a financial giant then go for ARB.

Ek wonder of Bill Gates ARBs op sy SFA het?

Bosfebok · Post by **Bosfebok** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:28 am

CasKru wrote:
Bosfebok wrote:R15k per diff for ARB vs 6k per diff for the Toyota Electric lockers :!:

If you do not do trials or competitions, then that makes a huge difference... if you fit the Toyota lockers on both diffs, then you have 18K left for some other stuff... You can fit a custom bumber, with a winch, and even maybe a drawer system for that moneys... just makes more money sense to me... :problem:
AFAIK you need to cut and weld when you want to fit Toyota Electric lockers

I had mine professionally done, by a diff and gearbox centre. No welding...they only machined the 3rd member to fit the electric motor on..bolted and sealed, no welding...looks like it came factory fitted...

I guess if you do it youself it might pose a couple of challenges...

My total cost for both diffs were R12.5k...still cheaper than one ARB...

Dingo · Post by **Dingo** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:08 pm

Okay, please bring me upto speed here - in laymans terminology.

Lockers - I'm presuming it's short for " diff lock"

What is the difference between the Toyota electric diff lock versus the Gearmax diff lock. You always see on the rear diffs ( most of the 4x2 bakkies, with that little black box/plate at the rear) these diff locks that are vaccum activaited and ' I think, on the new ones seem to be electrically activaited. I have never seen one with a small electric motor.

I was wanting to fit one of these diff locks into my rear diff - apparantly you can buy a complete diff from One Tonner Spares for around R5000,00

What are crawlers???/

Please educate me

Pype · Post by **Pype** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:36 pm

Scott yes lockers is a diff lock the deferens is as follow

Gearmax = vacuum activated (Like you said)
ARB = Air locker air activated
Electrical Toyota = Electrically activated with a motor.
Lock rite, Detroit = Automatic locker

The advantage of the ARB, electric lockers and automatic lockers is that you can put them on your import diff the gearmax is a complete diff as far as I know and there side shaft is not as strong as the import diffs.

A Crawler is highly modified custom build 4x4 vehicle usually a pipe car with some gadgets in that I do not even know about but Blom should be able to explain it better.

Hope this helps

Engel · Post by **Engel** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:49 pm

al klaar bang sien ek.

Ek dink die arb is n beter diffloc as a lockright. Vir gewone 4x4 raak dit fustrerend [of koop n datsun dan het jy nie sulke goeters nodig nie]

Big D · Post by **Big D** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:55 pm

I think the crawlers Dingo is referring to are the extra low range gears. You can either add another Transfer Case, or you could replace your low range in your transfer case with a lower ratio.

Post by **Mud Dog** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:13 pm

Big D wrote:I think the crawlers Dingo is referring to are the extra low range gears. You can either add another Transfer Case, or you could replace your low range in your transfer case with a lower ratio.

Correct!

Bosfebok · Post by **Bosfebok** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:57 am

Dingo wrote:Okay, please bring me upto speed here - in laymans terminology.

Lockers - I'm presuming it's short for " diff lock"

What is the difference between the Toyota electric diff lock versus the Gearmax diff lock. You always see on the rear diffs ( most of the 4x2 bakkies, with that little black box/plate at the rear) these diff locks that are vaccum activaited and ' I think, on the new ones seem to be electrically activaited. I have never seen one with a small electric motor.

I was wanting to fit one of these diff locks into my rear diff - apparantly you can buy a complete diff from One Tonner Spares for around R5000,00

What are crawlers???/

Please educate me

Please also note that the Toyota Electric lockers are specifically for the Import SFA diffs. The gearmax diffs are locally manufactured and have their own difflocks. You cannot fit a gearmax difflock to an import diff. So for an Import diff you have a couple of options, be it automatic lockers or selectable.

I prefer the selectable lockers, as I want to be in control as to when the diff would be locked or not. For selectable lockers, the Toyota Electric lockers are by far the cheapest, and not bad quality at all. For serious 4x4, or if you just have the money to spend...you can fit the ARB selectable lockers...but you'll pay close to R30k for two :!:

I fitted the Toyota Selectable lockers front and back. The electric motor sits on the outside of the third member next to where the propshaft is bolted on. When I get my bakkie back, I will post some pics of the lockers.

I must also correct myself on the statement I made yesterday on having machined the third member. The place where I had my fitment done, used my crown and pinion, and replaced my third member's outside cover, with one that is factory supplied with the electric motor fitted to it (it is a second hand one though, but the actual locker inside is brand new)... so they did not machine it...

Post by **Family_Dog** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 9:53 am

Wish I had known about the original Toyota ones when I had my diff-lock done, I never realised that TSA kept these in stock. Would have been half the price. But at least i gained a little compressor as well ;)

-F_D

Dingo · Post by **Dingo** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:05 am

Thanx for the info guys.

How do you determine if the diff is imported or local. Is the Gearmax diff lock okay if you are only using the vehicle for playing in the quarry and overlanding.?

Post by **Family_Dog** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:44 am

Viewing the rear diff from the back of the vehicle, if the pumpkin cover is removable from the rear, it is the local Gearmax diff. If it is seen to be a solid casting, then it is the imported one, which screws loose from the propshaft side.

-F_D

Dingo · Post by **Dingo** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:07 pm

Thx FD

So I got the local diff, is the Gearmax diff lock okay??

Hearsay is that places like One Tonner spares have complete new diffs with diff lock and all you need to do is unbolt the exsisting diff - take off the brake pipes and then fit the new diff - refit the brake pipes, connect up the diff lock and you're as good as to go.

Sounds far to easy for my liking?????

Post by **Family_Dog** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:52 pm

Scott, CasKru can answer you here... he puts his local gearmax diff & locker through much torture on a weekly basis, climbing rocks and other scary things and his diff seems to last.

If he doesn't chip in here, shoot him a PM.

-F_D

Post by **CasKru** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:23 pm

Dingo wrote:Thanx for the info guys.

How do you determine if the diff is imported or local. Is the Gearmax diff lock okay if you are only using the vehicle for playing in the quarry and overlanding.?

I had a small issue with my Gearmax when I just got the bakkie. IT seemed that the diffloc would disengage when the revs get to high. We later figured out the when the revs is high the vacuum drops away and thus disengages the locker. After installing a non-return valve on the line, no more problems

Believe you me I put the locker through it's phases and so far so good. Not even a hint of an issue after fitting the valve.

I believe the older model Gearmax had a non return valve installed with a solenoid. This has been upgraded to a new type solenoid which I believe has a non-return valve built. Mine is the second type and I take it after a few years the internal valvel starts to leak. Thus when I installed the non-return, I fixed the problem.

Hope this helps

Sifu-Lux · Post by **Sifu-Lux** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 8:04 pm

R30k for ARB is a bit harsh. Inflation must have been higher than reported in the last 4 years

I paid ~ R16,500 in 2005 for the ARB compressor (fitted it myself) and the front and rear ARB diff lock (fitted by 4x4 Megaworld in PE)

Thats ~100% increase in 4 years

Post by **Mud Dog** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:47 pm

The AUS $ / Rand exchange rate has a part to play .... not just inflation.

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:51 am

V8 Interceptor wrote:What Lockers would you fit to a SFA, and why?

Definitally a gearlock from gearlock citi

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:36 am

PAD Locker only locker an SFA should be sporting, everything else is vir sissies net nê

Post by **Mud Dog** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:06 pm

Nice to see you back on line Rich!

Lockers or no lockers!

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:32 pm

Dadz Toy BFI wrote:PAD Locker only locker an SFA should be sporting, everything else is vir sissies net nê

Agree show us a pic again of DadzToy's heavy duty locker

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:18 pm

BenHur wrote:
Dadz Toy BFI wrote:PAD Locker only locker an SFA should be sporting, everything else is vir sissies net nê

Agree show us a pic again of DadzToy's heavy duty locker

Dit wan

Mountain Man · Post by **Mountain Man** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 4:58 pm

Family_Dog wrote:Viewing the rear diff from the back of the vehicle, if the pumpkin cover is removable from the rear, it is the local Gearmax diff. If it is seen to be a solid casting, then it is the imported one, which screws loose from the propshaft side.

-F_D

F-D What's up with the cross ply spare wheel :wth: (Firestone Town and Counry I think

) and the Dunlop Track No Grip Radials. Makes a scary combination??

Post by **Family_Dog** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 7:53 pm

I was wondering when someone would pick that up...

The spare is a low-profile tyre mounted on a 16" rim, and may be considered a 'Marie Biscuit' spare. The real spare juts lower by about 60mm and snags too easily. If I go far away, I'll mount the correct spare on the rear bumper SWC.

The Trackgrips (sharp eye!) have also long since been replaced by Cooper STT's.

-F_D

Mountain Man · Post by **Mountain Man** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:17 am

Eish, I thought you were going soft on us with the Trackgrips.

Good idea using a skinny spare. I must admit I always put an old tyre as my spare. No point getting is nicked. I usally put the best of my old set of tyres as a spare which usally ends up being about 3mm tread. So I never buy 5 tyres and never rotate the spare wheel with the rest of my tyres. That actually makes a difference when quoting milage of tyres. If you think about it, if a person gets 80,000Km from a set of tyres including rotating the spare. They would have in fact only got about 60,000Km if they only rotated 4 tyres and not the spare.

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:07 pm

Dadz Toy BFI wrote:
BenHur wrote:
Dadz Toy BFI wrote:PAD Locker only locker an SFA should be sporting, everything else is vir sissies net nê

Agree show us a pic again of DadzToy's heavy duty locker

Dit wan

Aha only Locker an SFA needs.

If your wheels are in the air all the time your suspension is probably shot or you are driving where you probably should not

King Rat · Post by **King Rat** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:52 pm

I saw on the weekend at Dirt&Dust that lockers are very helpfull and that the Rat without them must choose lines very carefully or just leave the obstacle alone if there is too much cross axle. So if you fit fancy suspension you might as well fit lockers as it's the same thing really.

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:28 pm

King Rat wrote:................So if you fit fancy suspension you might as well fit lockers as it's the same thing really.

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:27 pm

King Rat wrote:the Rat without them must choose lines very carefully or just leave the obstacle alone

On a serious note and without me stirring just to get Darryl enol worked up again, Coenie you hit the nail on the head without even knowing it.

The reason why I am against everyone fitting lockers from the word go is just that, driving skills, choosing the right lines, knowing your vehicle's limitations.

Most guys who fit lockers early on while still learning to drive off-road never really develop their driving skill. Its easier to use the knoppie then it is to properly drive with some thought of what you are are doing and which line you are taking. I myself am guilty here on the Pajero I have many times used the knoppie in for instance a tight manoeuvre rather then to simply back upand get the vehicle better lined up for the obstacle. With an SFA and open diffs sometimes if the turn is too tight you have to back up and negotiate the obstacle in a different line then what logic says in order to get the front wheels straight rather then turned very far, as you easily loose traction when the steering is turned far vs when your steering is straight. Simple things like this many guys never learn when you use a locker all the time.

Take ou grootbek Engel for instance, I have seen him drive open axle vehicles over obstacles where guys with lockers could not follow, sometimes it was not even his own vehicle but that of someone who got stuck and was calling for a recovery which he drove out of the obstacles on their own power.

Riceburner · Post by **Riceburner** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 6:05 am

And now I am driving without lockers because I am too lazy to fit them.

DOELLOOS · Post by **DOELLOOS** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 8:09 am

So as ek nou reg verstaan moet ek nie lockers insit nie, en liewer momentum probeer hou op die obstacles...

Die Interceptor bou gelukkig baie vinnig momentum op!!!!!

Bosfebok · Post by **Bosfebok** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 8:14 am

See Darryl... that Avatar of yours is going in the right direction now.. I like it much more that way!

I have tested my diff locks yeterday

. There is a steep grassy slope close by us, all four wheels on the ground.... With no momentum, i.e. parking right in front of the obstacle, there was no way I could get out of there without a hell of a lot of spinning... With the rear diff lock on, I got out with a bit of spinning on the front and vice versa. With both lockers on, no spinning.... , so NO, having diff locks is NOT the same as having a fancy suspension, as it was a flat surface with all four wheels on the ground..

I am impressed with the lockers... I will fit a nice suspension next year, as I believe that it will complement the abilities of the bakkie and improve the driving comfort a bit on that SFA of mine..

Riceburner · Post by **Riceburner** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 8:35 am

Choose as much lines as yu want, you still not going to getup that slope.

DOELLOOS · Post by **DOELLOOS** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 8:39 am

Momentum uncle Rice, MOMENTUM!!!!

King Rat · Post by **King Rat** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 10:58 am

Dadz Toy BFI wrote:
King Rat wrote:................So if you fit fancy suspension you might as well fit lockers as it's the same thing really.

Bosfebok wrote: .... , so NO, having diff locks is NOT the same as having a fancy suspension, as it was a flat surface with all four wheels on the ground..

I am impressed with the lockers... I will fit a nice suspension next year, as I believe that it will complement the abilities of the bakkie and improve the driving comfort a bit on that SFA of mine..

Ok, to qualify my statement. If you fit lockers you're a sissy by Dadz standards. If you fit fancy suspension you're not. But both enhance the standard driving ability of the vehicle, although in different ways and help the guy that does not have enough experience. Include big wheels, bumpers that make the approach angle better etc. It’s all the same thing in getting a vehicle over an obstacle better. So in all cases you are not learning the correct way of driving a standard Lux over an obstacle. BUT, in my mind, it’s safer for newbie’s to have lockers and good suspension etc. when you do serious stuff and you don’t stuff up your environment and vehicle up even remotely as much as without the ‘helpers’. I don’t have the fancy stuff, simply because I can’t afford it. I also listen to my friends at trails on when to attempt something and when not with what I’ve got, and in the process do not break my vehicle. I’ve seen so-called experienced guys jumping their vehicles up a hill and going home on flatbed, I would rather see them swallowing their ego, fit the right stuff and brag about it afterwards, then it’s fun all round. I guess for example, with enough speed I’ll get a 1400 Dastbin over a steep hill but afterwards?

Bosfebok · Post by **Bosfebok** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:06 am

Well said Coenraad

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:21 am

I do agree with Coenie, once I have the hang of choosing a decent line, and have some 4x4 experience under the belt... I'll put a selectable locker in like the Toy elec version, probably in the rear diff... and eventually a front one as well... as finance allows! I'd prefer to protect my vehicle and the environment... I'm not the kind of guy that's going to try ridiculous obstacles/challenges just because the lux has a diffloc... but I certainly believe a diffloc will enhance the safety aspects, in the right hands! I would definitely like to go selectable, so I can attempt an obstacle without diffloc first!

mr b

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:49 pm

Bosfebok wrote:...... so NO, having diff locks is NOT the same as having a fancy suspension, as it was a flat surface with all four wheels on the ground..

I am impressed with the lockers... I will fit a nice suspension next year, as I believe that it will complement the abilities of the bakkie and improve the driving comfort a bit on that SFA of mine..

wise words

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:14 am

RustyRod wrote: I'd prefer to protect my vehicle and the environment... I'm not the kind of guy that's going to try ridiculous obstacles/challenges just because the lux has a diffloc... but I certainly believe a diffloc will enhance the safety aspects, in the right hands! I would definitely like to go selectable, so I can attempt an obstacle without diffloc first!

mr b

Britney after driving that washing machine thing with you at Atlantis I would say that fitting a Locker to Bolt with you behind the wheel is going to be ons scary combo.

Remember with lockers a vehicle tend to go straight and not allways where you steer it and that can also sometimes put you in a even more dangerous situation if the vehicles steers towards a dangerous place.

I have on more then one occasion seen a newby with a heavily modified vehicle and no experience getting into some serious situations, that is why my philosophy has always been as follows.

Drive your vehicle stock first, then do the easier cheaper mods like tyres and suspension first and then by experiencing the changes gradually you also understand what each mod does to the ability of your vehicle. Then one day when you know you can drive the vehicle safely to its limits and know the boundaries well, you can decide if you still want to spend the money on a locker. If you then want to do that that is fine, but at least you then know your vehicle and CAN drive, but if you buy a vehicle, lock it front and rear, add muddies and crawlers just to negotiate the escape routes better then you wasted your time and money

Riceburner · Post by **Riceburner** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:25 am

QUOTE" Remember with lockers a vehicle tend to go straight and not allways where you steer it and that can also sometimes put you in a even more dangerous situation if the vehicles steers towards a dangerous place."

Somethings smells like Bull....T!

DOELLOOS · Post by **DOELLOOS** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:56 am

So what is the age restriction for fitting lockers then Bennie?

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:40 pm

Riceburner wrote:QUOTE" Remember with lockers a vehicle tend to go straight and not allways where you steer it and that can also sometimes put you in a even more dangerous situation if the vehicles steers towards a dangerous place."

Somethings smells like Bull....T!

No Darryl if you actually drive real obstacles and not only the escape routes around them you would know what I talk about.

V8 Interceptor wrote:So what is the age restriction for fitting lockers then Bennie?

I'd say about 62 an a half

Post by **CasKru** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:54 pm

Better to have the equipment when you need it than to wish you had them when you need them.

A tool can only perform as well as the person handling it. With a locker you get yourself out of some hairy situations but generally speaking the reason why you are in that hairy situation is because you have the lockers.

I prefer to drive without using my lockers when I am alone in my bakkie but when the family comes along... I use the locker when ever I feel like it and is not ashamed to say it. But like I said when I am alone I try not to use them even if I have to try the obstacle a few times to get the line right etc. m2cw

But to get back to the question at hand, I prefer to have a selectable diffloc and not a permanent diff loc as to be able to choose when I want it to assist.

Engel · Post by **Engel** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:07 am

pik pik

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:27 am

Engel wrote:pik pik

Sê hulle

Post by **CasKru** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 6:52 am

Engel wrote:pik pik

traction devices enoll (you know what I'm saying?)

Riceburner · Post by **Riceburner** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 6:53 am

Maybe we should plan a showdown, Bennie with a lockerless lux and someone with twin lockers?
PS. can the retards who keep changing my avatar please delete it or leave it alone!

Post by **Mud Dog** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:07 am

I only noticed now that you mention it. Clever!

Darryl, you gotta admit that it's pretty "in your face" on a Hilux forum.

Riceburner · Post by **Riceburner** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:22 am

Hiluxes are the best until you drive a Disco V8.

Hannes.S · Post by **Hannes.S** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:05 am

Riceburner wrote:Hiluxes are the best until you drive a Disco V8.

In reverse! ----- towed by a Hilux

Post by **CasKru** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:15 am

Riceburner wrote:Maybe we should plan a showdown, Bennie with a lockerless lux and someone with twin lockers?

I don't think the argument here is that a vehicle without lockers has better capability than one without.

Riceburner · Post by **Riceburner** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:29 am

Exactly.