Kinetic recovery equipment

[Niel]

What is the difference between a kinetic strap and rope? I have never used one and don’t know much abought the working and specs….. I know there are different lengths and withes and brakeage……. What will be a good option should I want to buy one and where can I get it for a reasonable prise. I sthere a diffrence between snatch strap/rope and a kinetic strap/rope?

[BenHur]

Kinetic rope/strap is used for snatching (name interchangeable. Difference between rope and strap: rope way more expensive to make but not better then strap (this is according to the manufacturer. What make? Spanset, Spanset or Spanset. You can get them at Makro and many camping and off-road speciality shops but generally Makro is the cheapest Will seek more info and post it here tomorrow

[Niel]

Hi Bennie
Thanks, will wait for the post
Are we the only knight crawlers tonight?

[BenHur]

The 8000kg x 9m KESS (Kinetic Energie Snatch Strap) from Spanset is the recommended option for most D/C bakkies like the Hilux. It is strong enough and at below R400 it is well priced.

But it is also imported to get a proper sized pull strap as well. Many times a snatch might not be necessary if you can rather do a normal pull. It is not as dangerous as a snatch and you can also use the pull strap to extend the snatch strap if needed.

You also need bow shackles (not D-type shackles as they damage the ends of the KESS). I personally prefer and use the ¾inch (22mm bolt) ones as I feel that the ½" (13mm bolt) might break during a heavy snatch. But you need the appropriate sized recovery points on your vehicle as well as it does not help that you have the right sized kit but the recovery points fail. These standard hooks on many vehicles are many times not strong enough.

If your Bull Bar or Tow Bar is not secured with properly graded screws you might rip it off your van as well. The minimum recommended bolts are 8.8 graded bolts and nuts, but I have seen guys recommend/prefer using 12.9 graded screws as well. Sometimes the fitment places sommer use normal mild steel bolts

With regards to safety it is also recommended to use pieces of rope to (with some slag) tie the bow shackle to your vehicle so that if the shackle breaks loose it will not become a missile. Also recommended is to put a blanket or something over the strap to try and keep it on the ground when it breaks so that it does not fly through the air and collide with your vehicle or a person. The vehicle with the strap connected to the front must also open their bonnet as a shield to protect the windscreen and passengers from missiles.

There are also other safety aspects to consider when snatching and you need to care for your kit as well. Simon (our resident safety expert) might be able to add quite a few things here which I might have forgotten to mention

Personally I try not to snatch. I have bought a new snatch strap last year and have not used it since. Every time I got stuck a pull strap was sufficient to get me out.
Another thing is that a Snatch straps can only be used so many times before it looses the elasticity and becomes a normal pull strap. For that reason I will not use my KESS to recover someone else that got stuck. If they need a snatch they can buy the KESS from me at normal replacement value and I will then snatch them and they can keep the KESS and I will get myself a new one.

Michael Green from SecureTech / SpanSet is a member of the community forum and has assisted some of the members there (including Simon) have used their warranty option to have their damaged straps repaired.

Piet maybe you can invite Michael to register here as well

I copied this information from the 4x4 community forum:

SecureTech (Spanset) offer a limited lifetime repair warranty on any of there recovery straps and tie downs.

Return the straps to our Randburg factory and we will repair free of charge.

Best regards
Michael Green
SecureTech / SpanSet


T : (+27)0861040506
F : (+27)0861040507
M : (+27)0832514312

Limited lifetime "repair" warranty in my opinion means :

We will repair and or replace the webbing on any tie down strap for its lifetime on condition that it is one of our straps and carries our labels branding etc etc ( no original invoices etc etc required ) :

: if a strap has been cut by the valance or any sharp object in or around the recovery point of a motor car we will re-sew on a new reinforced eye free of charge

: if a strap has been cut in the middle by a sharp object we will re-sew two eyes on each piece free of charge ( if the strap is long enough failing which we will sew on one eye and through away one eye )

: if a strap has been damaged along its length by a rock / tree / sharp / abrasive object and in order to prevent any additional wear and tear needs to have an anti-abrasion sleeve sewen on to the item we will do this free of charge

: if a customer buys our range of tie downs and the webbing has been cut or badly abraded we will replace at margin cost in comparison to buying a new tie down assembly BUT if the strap has been cut and the customer wants the hook re-attached we will do this free of charge

: transport costs are always an issue and it would be convenient for the end user to return the strap to our Randburg factory and we will send it back to his nominated supplier ( our dealer/distributor/ etc etc )

Best regards
Michael Green

Here is some nice info from Michael regarding snatching (also read the difference between the strap and the rope.

no two recoveries are the same

each recovery is dependant on the following factors which will shorten or lengthen the kinetic recovery strap or ropes life span
(1)mass of the stuck vehicle
(2)mass of the tug vehicle
(3)speed of the tug vehicle
(4)how badly is the vehicle stuck
(5)stuck in mud is not the same as been stuck in sand
(6)how the kess / kerr is stored after recovery
(7)how many times in a 24 hour period the kess/kerr is used
(maintenance program
(9)distance travelled

a rope and strap is made out of the same material and therefore have the same or similar properties
(1)they will or must eventually wear out
(2)both require a recovery time period

how a kerr / kess works
(1)a kinetic recovery works because of the conversion of potential energy into kinetic energy
(2)imediate recovery ( the part that does the work)
(3)latent recovery ( the part that requires 12 to 24 hours to recover)
(4)these rules apply to both types of equipment

it can therefore be concluded that in principle there is no real difference between a strap and a rope and the rules for the strap applies to the rope and visa versa

difference between a kess and kerr
(1)kess is cheaper (kerr is about 2 or 3 times more expensive)
(2)kess has slightly less elongation 20% - 30% (kerr is about 30% - 40 %)
(3)kess packs into about 1/4 of the size of a kerr

in europe more ropes are used (as they have not had webbing available) while in australasia more kess are used (this is trend we follow here is south africa)

there is different elongation between a wet and dry strap/rope, there is also a different break strength between a wet and dry strap/rope

kess = kinetic energy snatch recovery strap
kerr = kinetic energy recovery rope

SECURETECH / SPANSET products available from Makro stores

#1~ Spanset/Secure-Tech have launched a NEW snatch rope with a minimum break strength of 8000kg and 16000kg / 9m and 10m supplied in a heavy duty Cordura type storage bag
#2~ Snatch strap/rope must be manufactured from high tenacity high elongation polyamide yarn. One cannot tell the difference between a snatch rope/strap and tow/pull rope/strap by feel or appearance. If the strap/rope is not labelled for application then treat it as a pull/tow rope/strap, because one will do major vehicle damage if you use a pull tow as a kinetic snatch recovery as polyester elongates by only 5-8 % at break.
#3~ A snatch rope/strap needs to be no shorter than 9m metres because one needs to be able to obtain a speed of between 15 - 30 km/h to energise the strap/rope.Snatch straps/ropes are available in any length up to 100m. With a 6m strap/rope you will not be able to create enough energy for the strap/rope to work effectively. Remember a snatch strap/rope works for one reason only - the towing vehicles kinetic energy is converted into potential energy of the stretched rope/strap. The energy is transfered by the rope to the bogged vehicle.
#4~ The individual who secures his strap/rope temporarilly or permently around his/her bull is looking for short to long term trouble. As straps/ropes are manufactured from textile they degrade over time with continuos exposure to weather and UV. Kinetic ropes/straps are especially susceptible to rotting as they absorb moisture and will rot if kept wet. Store in a cool dry place out of direct sunlight.

[Niel]

Thanks Bennie, will read a bit later.

[george]

Hi Guys.
Here is the ropes I use.
This one is for towing
POLYPROP FLEX PLY

This one for snatching.Like Bennie I also do not like snatching.So have not used it that much.

I bought from these guys http://www.marineequipment.co.za/Home/Home.htm

They can make up any lenght for you.
I see Map&Trail also sell the snatch rope

[pietpetoors]

Is it true that you can use a snatch rope only for a limited number of snatches?

[Family_Dog]

Hi Piet,

From Bennie's post above:

a rope and strap is made out of the same material and therefore have the same or similar properties
(1)they will or must eventually wear out
(2)both require a recovery time period

It would definitely be a good move to invite Michael to provide some information here, he manufactures a good product.

-F_D

[BenHur]

Is it true that you can use a snatch rope only for a limited number of snatches?

After a snatch it does not return to 100% of its original length, every time you use it it basically looses some of its elasticity until it eventually becomes a normal rope

[BenHur]

Here is a another post from Michael on the Community Forum. This one is regarding Shackles

In my opinion shackles are used as follows:
- D shackles are for chain (as you require a smaller load bearing area)
- B shackles are for textile and steel wire rope (as you require a larger load bearing area)

To clear something once and for all
- shackles are available in bow and dee shape
- shackles are available in rated (alloy) and commercial (mild steel)

How to tell the two apart
- rated shackles are generally alloy steel (alloy body or pin or both depending on the specification, they also have a garanteed break strength, body and pin diametre is different, these shackles normally have a WLL and dimension embossed on to the body, pin colour indicates the manufacturer)
- commercial shackles are made out of "steel" (that is the only resemblance, body and pin diametre is the same, not rated and does not have a garanteed break strength, might meet a specification but does not garantee break strength and elongation only dimensions

Hope that this helps

Michael Green

SECURE-TECH
T - 0861040506
F - 0861040507
M - 0832514312

[Cookie Monster]

I have never used a kenetic rope I beleive the put alot of stress on your van is this true

[BenHur]

Yes it does especially on a softer vehicle that does with an integrated body& chassis. Unfortunatally sometimes a snatch is the only way to get a vehicle unstuck.

If you make sure you anchor the strap to a recovery point that is fastened to your chassis properly (directly or via a properly fastened bul bar or tow bar) you should be safe. SFA Hilux's suspension is very strong, it is not an item that gets damaged often.

[Cookie Monster]

Cool I am just glad I bought the toughst 4x4 by Far

[BenHur]

Last year during an accident I had with the Lux, a Polo drove into the back of me going flat out. My tow bar was twisted like the lid of a sardine can, the bolts that held it to the chassis was cut straight of (looking like it was cut in a guillotine) the Polo's engine dropped down almost onto the tarmac, My load bin was FUBAR , but the chassis is still 100%

[pietpetoors]

This weekend we got stuck very deep in the mud. I saw the power of a snatch rope in action. It is AMAZING. You give it a lot of slack between the two vehicle. The towing vehicle then start running. When the snatch rope becomes stretched out it seems as if everything freeze for a split second and then all of the sudden the vehicle that is stuck just jumps out of the mud.

With my bakkie we first tried to pull it with a normal steel cable. It did not move. Then we attached the snatch rope and with the first attempt it jumped out of the mud.

So for mud or sand, I would not try anything else than a snatch rope. A year ago I still believed that it was a marketing thing, but now I have seen how good it works.

[Family_Dog]

I hear what everyone says, and I do believe it works. But I would also like to see it done before attempting it myself. How fast must the pulling bakkie accelerate to pull out the stuck bakkie? 1st or 2nd low?

I also wonder whether the tow strap I have is a snatch or normal tow strap? It will be marked on the plastic bag, but these things have a habit of getting misplaced or torn. Does a snatch strap carry any markings stating it is a snatch strap?

-F_D

[Niel]

Hi Piet

Sounds like a lekker weekend.
My question is this: did the front vehicle stop when there was enough tension on the snatch strap or did they keep driving?

In my humble opinion (might be wrong) the power is in the strap not the vehicle driving. So when there is enough tension on the strap the front vehicle can stop moving.

Comments Pls,

I have heard of some funny things before. Maybe just “grensvegter” stories.

[Niel]

FM

Did not see your response.
I have the same questions. I assume that the terrain will determine the gear selection. I will rather prefer the save and correct way to snatch. I am going to be looking on the NET but the time is a problem.

[pietpetoors]

In our case the front vehicle just attempted to keep on going. You see, the moment the strap are tight, the front vehicle will start spinning and will very slowly (if any) go forward. I think if the front vehicle stop trying to go forward the strap will mos pull him back again.

So in our case it just kept on going. When it pulled me out, it stopped a split second, then my vehicle jumped out of the mud, but then the recovery vehicle kept on going. When the strap is pulled out completely it acts as a normal rope. If you stop the moment when the vehicle came out of the mud it will just get stuck again. SO the recovery vehicle must keep on going until the stuck vehicle is on good ground or there is no space to continue.

If the vehicle is so stuck that it cannot get out (Like the Disco that did not even move with 2x SFA with 33" in front) then the thing will happen that the recovery vehicle will just stop dead in its tracks and start spinning.

Oh, and I forgot to mention. The vehicle that is stuck must of course also put it in gear and try to get out by itself. So the moment that gets plugged out of the hole, then his vehicle will assist the recovery vehicle a bit.

Hope that answers the question.

[BenHur]

Like Pieter said keep on going. Especially in mud, mud is a destroyer of kinetic straps. You want to keep the strap out of the mud as far as possible and not drag it trough mud unnecessary, so you must try to keep it under tension as far as possible. (BTW, make sure you clean all mud out of the fibres of your strap before using it again as dry mud is abrasive and will damage your strap, cutting fibres)

The gear you select for the recovery will depend on the situation. I think it is a case of playing hit or miss. If the recovery vehicle has proper traction, driving off in 1st gear might give him enough power to sustain movement when the strap is stretched out all the way. If the terrain is slippery, 2nd maybe be a better choice as you will not have too much torque that will cause unnecessary wheel spin, but it might require a few more tugs.

Remember the kinetic strap is not just a rubber band doing all the work but it also works as a shock absorber to equalise the speed/force between the two vehicles. If you tried pulling away with the recovery vehicle and picking up speed until a static strap becomes straight, the shock due to the incredible force at play here will cause something to break, either the vehicle or your neck.

Regarding the speed issue, Andre St Pierre White describes it very effective when he says: “Drive off purposefully.” Finding the right speed and gear is all a question of experience and getting to know your vehicle.

Then regarding the labels, as with any piece of equipment on the market, you get kinetic straps and kinetic straps. A proper one like the Spanset kit will have a label stitched onto it detailing all the ratings thereof.

As far as “grensvegter” stories goes, yes the guys in the army also had kinetic ropes rated much higher then the commercial stuff we use. Therefore, yes it did happen a few times where guys with Caspers weighing several tons tried recovering little 4x4 bakkies with a kinetic rope rated 30 tons or more and then ripping the bakkies off their axles. But that should not happen with the stuff we use.

[Niel]

Thanks guys, as said before never used it to date.

[Family_Dog]

I suppose it's as daunting as taking your very first bicycle ride as a toddler. Looks scary, but once you're accustomed to it and had some practise, it becomes second nature :D

I would still learn from others before risking what to me sounds too good to be true (as the driver of the recovery vehicle), although I am convinced of its many successes, especially after reading the reports here!

-F_D

[SYRON CONVERSIONS]

:D Thankyou to benhur, he has basically covered what I would have said, and Thankyou for adding Michael's contact details, you can buy direct from him as well, also ask him for some Key holders, this is a metal loop with a yellow looped strap attached to it, SYRON CONVERSIONS came up with the idea of actually attacheing this
"key ring strap" to the screw pins of the bow shackles, then if you loose the pin in the grass or mud or the actual bow shackle or if it gets picked up by mistake by somebody else, you will be able to reconise it, on the inside of the yellow strap, there is a place where you can write your contact details, use a pernament marking pen.

Wish washing straps, what we do is use a cold water high pressure cleaner, some soap that we wash vehicle's with and then let the straps dry in the shade, however you can just use a water tap, wash off most of the mud, then use a soft scrubbing brush and some washing powder soap, once it is clean you can let it lie in some stay soft for an hour, then take it out and once again let it dry in the shade.
Once it is dry, you can coil it up on itself flat side.

On my Hilux, I have one attached permanetly to the rear of the vehicle, sometimes we have to move fast when a vehicle gets stuck, no time to get the strap out of the bag and connect it up, I have been told that the sun will destroy this strap, but this vehicle gets parked in a dark garage all week and maybe gets used on the weekends and if it does get damaged I will just buy another one, they are cheap.

Will poat some pic's here once I have found them.

Another thing to remember, when you tighten the screw pin of the bow shackle, tighten it by hand all the way, then slacken it off half a turn, if you do not do this, you will require a pair of pliers to loosen the pin after you have recovered the other vehicle "or yours".

You can also paint your bow shackles to help reconise them.
You can join two straps together using a round piece of wood, but you must also use a bunch (handfull of grass) with the piece of wood, with using grass or a few twigs, it makes it easier to loosen the joint, I have heard that you can just use a bunch of grass or some a bunch of twigs to join two straps together, but I have not tried that yet.

[george]

Hi Guys
If you need to join 2 snatch straps than use the Reef Knot.This is not so easily jammed.You can get it loose afterwards
http://www.tinarooeec.eq.edu.au/Kids/reef.html

Regarding the grensvegter story.When I was a NDP I drove Tanks(Olifant).We had this big kenetic rope.If a tank got bogged down(Wich not happend often)You use this rope to recover the tank.You connect the rope the one tank drive forward until the rope is stretch out.You put your hanbrake on and wait for the rope to pull out the stuck tank.It actually works.

[BenHur]

Ja I heard about that before but those belts are not 100% the same as the ones we use.(they are a bit more advanced. )

Regarding joining to straps or ropes, you do not have to make knots as they all have rounded loops (eyes) on the ended. All you need to do is to pull the two ropes via each others eyes so that it forms a figure of eight. See the attached sketch. Excuse my artwork as I am unfortunately not a descendent of Picasso or Michelangelo

[george]

Ja Bennie you are right.It is much better to use the eyes of the straps.But sometimes they snap in the middle and then you can join them with the reef knot for emergencies.

[SYRON CONVERSIONS]

basic tow strap made by Spanset





Repaired kinetic strap above

[SYRON CONVERSIONS]

Heavy duty snatch blocks and a new kinetic strap from Michael



You would never think that this is a kinetic strap that has been used over 20 times

[SYRON CONVERSIONS]

Bow shackles that I use



This was the broken kinetic strap that was repaired





Please note, I did not break it like this, I had loaned it to some guys who went out 4x4ing for the afternoon and one guy in a Mazda/Ford got horribly stuck, in such a way that there was a suction under his vehicle and it would not move, I eventually went out at 19h00 to help them out, I used my High Lift Jack, jacked up the vehicle to break the suction, then used my other strap and the vehicle was loose after the first tug, the idiots were :D but and :o

[BenHur]

Here are some nice pictures indicating how to join recovery belts.
Photos courtesy of Barto de Koning on the 4x4 Community forum

[Niel]

Hi Bennie

Thanks for the pics saw it on the 4x4comm site as well.

[Kevin Botha]

I have never used the snatch method, BUT, I like the idea that it should be a gradual process.

First try a pull, then a slight snatch, then a harder snatch and a harder snatch and so on, until the stuck van is freed.

This seems to be what most experts recommend. A beginner as myself, could cause major dammang by trying a high speed snatch when it is not required.

From what I have read this is a very dangerous process and must be treated with the respect it deserves.

[BenHur]

Kevin

Remember a Kinetic strap has a limited amount of pulls before it stretches out completely and just become a normal static strap. So if you use it the way you suggest then you might be shortening the life thereof dramatically. Rather use a pull stap first and only when you realise that pulling would not work then use the snatch strap. By tne you would already have a feel of the terrain and traction and should be able to determine what gear and speed to use.

[Big Hilux]

I don't quite agree, I always start with my snatch strap.....if I had to choose, it would be the only piece of recovery equipment I carry with me. I'd start with a gentle pull at first, and then step it up as needed.
The story that a snatch strap can only be used 10 or 20 times is a myth, there is no hard and fast rule that can be applied, it all depends on how hard the pulls where. My one Spanset strap has done over 100 recoveries, many of those were gentle pulls, but more than 20 has been big snatches and only now has it reached the point where I can see it is no longer suited to heavy snatching.
I do look after my straps very well and clean them with a high pressure washer and that seems to work.

[BenHur]

OK so we learn something new everyday.

[Niel]

Bought a Secure Tech 8t (60mm x 9m) strap.

Thanks for all the advice.

[SYRON CONVERSIONS]

And have you used it yet Niel did you get some bow shacles for it as well

[Niel]

Hi Simon

And have you used it yet

Not used it to date.

Niel did you get some bow shacles for it as well

No, but will do so in the next 2 to 3 weeks. I remember something on bow shackles in another thread if not I will post the question or you can PM me with some advice if you want.

[Niel]

Simon, bought the pull strap and bow shacles from Haniball some time ago and used the shackles and pull strap twice since then. I will take picture of it and post it

[CasKru]

I don't know if this has been mentioned. I have seen a kenetic strap in action plenty of times. According to my personal experience, you can recover a much heavier vehicle using a much lighter vehicle. The momentum of the recovery vehicle makes a huge difference.

Had this scenario. Went playing in the mud with a buddy of mine. He had a Disco 3 with the full kit (when I say full I mean more than full kit). I have the 2.4 SFA. We bouth had difficulty getting out of the mud area as it was surrounded by steep slopes all round. I got out with a bit momentum and a nice run up. He on the other hand got stuck halfway up the slope. It was more clay than mud actually. I then reversed till my bakkie wanted to start sliding downhill again. We attached the snatch and on the first pull got the Landy out. And the big bonus, I almost didn't even feel the tug.

If I had to use a rope, there would have been no way for me to get the traction to pull him out of the mud.

Hope this helps.

[Zantus]

Yip, a snatch works great to recover a vehicle heavier than your own.
I've used my 800kg suzuki to snatch a 2.5ton kitted Defender 110 that was lying on it's chassis, all 4 wheels spinning in the air, with only two attempts....on the second attempt I did have to back up to about 3m from the landy and I gave it all the little zook could give!

[CasKru]

I've seen plenty of this sort of recovery. So I'm quite sold on the kenetic strap.

What bothers me about a rope is that if you have any slack on the rope, the jerking effect is much more intense and feels a lot worse.

Where as with the snatch, although there is alot of stress involved, it's not taken up all at once

[DOELLOOS]

This of course is all useless and trivial if you have never been stuck.

Haven't met my match yet... but then again, I always drove a Land Cruiser...

I don't know much about...uhm...what do you call it? Recovery? oh well, maybe one day...

I just bought a new Patrol, so maybe I should take notes...

[CasKru]

Never got stuck myself either. :)

But have done alot of recoveries (ok... at least ten) and not one was on another Toyota

[BenHur]

If you don't get stuck you are not trying hard enough. I agree I do not want to go into situations wiyh the plasticjero where it cn be damamged, but I had to be recovered with it once already but ja now with Limey I do not feel a sh... about it so I am going to follow Barto's example and try to see how many times I can get stuck

[Maniac]

I normally ride with a friend of mine who has a Disco 2. It is his primary vehicle, so he is very protective about it. He has recovered my SFA twice, after taking about 20 photos of the situation, and is very proud of the fact, as he gets a lot of Landy bashing coming his way.

The problem that I have is that I like to try what seems impossible, and can try it cause he can recover me if I get stuck.

We hve been using a standard starp upto now, but I am definiately going to buy a kinetic strap after reading this thread.