Beat load shedding with solar ...

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ChrisF
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Beat load shedding with solar ...

Post by ChrisF »

Alternative energy

Renewable energy

these are 1st world terms ....


right now we will settle for CONSTANT energy :siffler: :surrender:


dont you just love the nice hum of the neighbours genny breaking the silence and reminding you one hum at a time of the reason for the performance bonuses of Eskom's CEO :slap:


the UPS worked o-so nice for that FIRST load shed, well at least it kept you going for 10 to 15 minutes. Strange how that first 2 hour load shed did not feel as long as the 5th 2 hour load shed. .... and now even Checkers have run out of the very cheap and nasty gennies, and now BOTH neighbours hum away and you have stereo reminder of your frustrations.


So you put your ear plugs in and start scratching your head for possible "alternatives" ....



Okay there ARE guys out there selling "whole house" solutions .... but the kids are professional students and you dont have an idle 400k to spend on panels on the roof ....


thank goodness the one genny has gone quiet :frustrated:


let's try to recap:
- Eskom - cr@p
- genny - hate it, but damn it would be nice if the neighbour can hear what I have to listen to ...
- UPS - somehow thought this was a silver bullet .... NOT so.
- Wind turbine - now if only my little townhouse plot was slightly bigger than the base of the mast ... not to mention the costs
- Solar - now THIS should be the silver bullet .... but those blasted tuition fees ....



SO WHAT TO DO ???


Maybe time to think seriously and to ask WHAT do YOU WANT energy for ?

Then ask yourself what do you NEED energy for ...


FACT - "wants" are going to be VERY expensive !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


so for now let's stick with "needs" :

Stove - go gas (get a spare cylinder - DO expect gas shortages as the industry lags the growth of the consumer base!!)

hot water - solar hot water installation


LIGHTS - couple of options:
- 220V (well sometimes this is an option)
- now bearing mind this is a 4x4 forum - camping lights (these CAN actually be used at home - just dont forget it at home when going on your next trip .... weet ek gaan!)
- 12V lighting solutions - friend is using 3 x 10W 12V flood lights. Others have gone for LED light strips.


ELECTRONICS - these blasted things have taken over our lives, you know the tv, computer, laptop, i-this and i-that ....
Ironically the i's and the laptop are okay -as their batteries easily cope with a typical loadshed period.
The problems start with the tv and decoders, and then those that want to run an old pc during a load shed.


The attached spreadsheet attempts to portray the basic maths in a way that will make sense to the non-technically minded - summary:
12V lights - easy enough to get a backup system in place. Personally we just use our camping lights.
electronics - WOW !!! these things are power hungry !! the price of a solar\regulator\battery\inverter system is WAY MORE than a cheap genny !!

NOTE - now still dont have power to the freezer for those long Joburg outages !!


My 2c opinion -
1) get a 6kVA genny, and run a lead into the house for the electronics and freezer. Go for the KNOWN brands !
2) get a sparky to wire in that 6kVA into your DB the CORRECT way, and get rid of that extension lead.
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Re: Beat load shedding with solar ...

Post by Haboob »

Chris, Well put out. This sounds so easy, but cash strapped South Africans just do not have so much extra CASH/available credit to get this off the ground for something that you have been paying towards over your whole working life. Will you get your money back if you sell your house in the next couple of years when ESKOM's next BRIGHT plan is set in motion after charging the consumer PRIME fees to get it off the ground?
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Re: Beat load shedding with solar ...

Post by Toppie4x4 »

used my 1700watt inverter in my hilux a while back to keep the fridges and lights on. Used the vehicle battery and the hilux idling when battery were low. Did install a second battery for the next emergency.
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Re: Beat load shedding with solar ...

Post by JEEPIE »

3.5 years agao with a little 1 in the hose i got fed up
went the route of solar geyser first , warm water to bath
then gas stove and oven - cooking sorted (even skoonma can warm water for tea and coffee)
then the solar system
48V system ( 190AH batteries) - 6 x 210w panels on the roof
3kva inverter
mppt controller
changes 95% of the lights to led (220v) all the lights in the house run permanently off the solar system
3 plugs on the circut too
- can charges phones etc if required
- ignition starter for gas oven/ stove
- 1 led tv and mnet decoder

system can be upgraded to run everything if required

what else will you require ?
we can eat , cook , bath and relax in front of the tv and the alarm is connected too
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Re: Beat load shedding with solar ...

Post by Mr_B »

Jeepie, can you recall the cost of the solar elec system?
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Re: Beat load shedding with solar ...

Post by Mr_B »

Chris, just out of interest, what is the fuel consumption of a 6KVA genni running for 1 hour, on average?
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Re: Beat load shedding with solar ...

Post by JEEPIE »

Mr_B wrote:Jeepie, can you recall the cost of the solar elec system?
R 120k
pays for itself within 4 years
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Re: Beat load shedding with solar ...

Post by ChrisF »

Mr_B wrote:Chris, just out of interest, what is the fuel consumption of a 6KVA genni running for 1 hour, on average?
dont know - but YES, would be most interesting if one of the members can let us know.

PS - please indicate if your fuel consumption is on a diesel or petrol unit.
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Re: Beat load shedding with solar ...

Post by subok »

Chris, that question is never asked. Running and maintenance cost of a mid-sized gennie? Also probably the least 'green' solution. Lets say R100 fuel for each 4 hour loadshed it could come to say R1000 per month for 10 loadsheds and R12000 per year! can buy a lot of panels for that price.
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Re: Beat load shedding with solar ...

Post by ChrisF »

subok wrote:Chris, that question is never asked. Running and maintenance cost of a mid-sized gennie? Also probably the least 'green' solution. Lets say R100 fuel for each 4 hour loadshed it could come to say R1000 per month for 10 loadsheds and R12000 per year! can buy a lot of panels for that price.
we moan about the replacement costs of the batteries - wonder if anybody has done a real comparison of batteries vs generator "ownership costs" ... looking at the purchase costs, the maintenance costs and the replacement costs



seems it it is just plain expensive to get away from eskom ... pay now, pay later and then pay some more ...
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Re: Beat load shedding with solar ...

Post by JohanW »

At the office I have a kipor KDE12STA, 8.5KVA. Runs about 9hours on 26 liters of diesel. Keeps the server room and essential devices going. Automatically starts and stops within 10sec of the grid falling away. Since our offices are in a huge old farm house outside Stellenbosch we make use of a rural Eskom supply. We often have outages not load shedding related.

Eskom on average cuts our power twice as much compared to residential and other load shedding areas. Currently burning 50-80L a week.

Its a brilliant genny by the way.
http://www.kiporgenerator.co.za/kipor-s ... s-kde12sta" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Beat load shedding with solar ...

Post by subok »

Die wet van Transvaal ' <♡< en betaal' is nou ook van toepassing op ander provinsies...
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Re: Beat load shedding with solar ...

Post by Mud Dog »

Thanks Chris. Chris's article here was prompted by a telephonic discussion we had the day before about my ideas to install a small power contingency to cover the basics in the event of power cuts.

This article from Moneyweb looks at this more from a cost saving perspective .....

How to reduce electricity dependence at home
(Antoinette Slabbert)

With the rising electricity costs and declining power reliability, most South Africans are looking at alternatives.

Moneyweb asked electrical and electronic engineer Heino van Jaarsveldt, of DFR Engineers in Pretoria, what alternatives are available to smaller households and which are the most cost effective.

Van Jaarsveldt says the market is flooded with products promising substantial savings due to energy efficiency. It is however critical to first understand one’s household electricity consumption before determining where to reduce consumption.

He advises that one should first focus on the two main electricity consuming loads in a household: the stove and geyser. Here is his analysis.

Geyser

Electric water heaters

Most South African households make use of electrical tank-type water heaters to heat the water. A geyser blanket or an element timer are fairly cheap solutions to reduce standing losses.

Solar water heaters

Solar water heaters are commonly used to heat water for domestic applications.

Advantages: affordable, reliable and pollution-free (in operation) as they use renewable energy from the sun and don’t generate CO2 emissions in the water warming process.
Disadvantage: It is not available 24/7.

A solar water heater consists of a solar collector and a storage tank. Active solar water heaters include circulating pumps and controls. The energy from the sun is collected by means of the solar collector to heat water or another heat transfer fluid. This energy is then transferred directly or indirectly to the water being heated.

Heat pump

A domestic hot water heat pump is a very efficient water heating device, using a small amount of electricity to produce more heat energy. Unlike a solar geyser, a heat pump is not directly dependent on the sun and therefore can operate day and night.

The best way to describe the operation is to use the example of an air conditioner working in reverse. A heat pump extracts heat from the ambient air surrounding it, enabling it to heat the refrigerant which is also compressed to increase the temperature. The water is then heated by means of a heat exchanger. The electrical energy consumed by the heat pump is used to only run the fan and compressor of the system.

Case study

Geyser

For the purpose of the case study the energy consumption of an electric geyser, heat pump and solar water heater were compared in order to determine the estimated monthly savings. The calculations are based on a family of three with a hot water consumption of 75 litres per person per day.

The table below illustrates the estimated consumption and relevant energy cost for an electric geyser.
Electric geyser
Capacity (L) 200
Rating (kW) 4
Time (min) 156.75
Time (hours) 2.61
Energy consumption per day (kWh) 10.45
Energy consumption per month (kWh) 323.95
Energy tariff (Tshwane 2014) (R/kWh) R 1.47
Energy Costs (Per Month) R 476.21

Savings R 0.00

The table below illustrates the estimated consumption and relevant energy cost for a heat pump.
Heat pump
Capacity (L) 200
Rating (kW) 4
COP 3
Time (min) 156.75
Time (hours) 2.61
Energy consumption per day (kWh) 3.48
Energy consumption per month (kWh) 107.98
Energy tariff (Tshwane 2014) (R/kWh) R 1.47
Energy costs (per month) R 158.74

Savings R 317.47

Initial investment R 15 500.00

The graph below illustrates the estimated buyback period for a heat pump with an initial investment of R 15 500.00. The calculation of the buyback period is based on an escalation in energy tariffs of 12.69% for the first five years. From the graph shown below, it is clear that the estimated buyback period is approximately three and a half years. It is important to note that maintenance of the equipment and interest were not considered for the buyback period.
Antoinette+3.png
Antoinette+3.png (15.6 KiB) Viewed 4112 times

The table below illustrates the estimated consumption and relevant energy cost for a solar water heater.
Solar geyser
Solar collector size (square metre) 4
MJ/day per square metre 9.6

MJ/day 38.4
kWh 10.67

Available hot water 229.67

Energy costs (per month) R 0.00

Savings R 476.21

Initial investment R 20 507.46

The graph below illustrates the estimated buyback period for a solar water heater with an initial investment of R20 507.46. The calculation of the buyback period is based on an escalation in energy tariffs of 12.69% for the first five years.

From the graph below it is clear that the estimated buyback period is approximately three years. It is important to note that maintenance of the equipment and interest were not considered for the buyback period.
Antoinette+2.jpg
Antoinette+2.jpg (27.2 KiB) Viewed 4112 times


Stove

Most South African households make use of an electric stove for cooking purposes. The alternative is to use a gas stove which uses liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) as an energy source for cooking.

Induction cooking is also an alternative source cooking source. It heats a cooking vessel by means of electrical induction, instead of thermal conduction. Because electrical induction is used for the transfer of energy, the cooking vessel (pots and pans) must contain a ferromagnetic metal such as cast iron or stainless steel.

An induction cooker is faster and more energy efficient than a traditional electric cooking surface. Induction cookers allow for instant control of cooking power, similar to gas burners. It is estimated that the efficiency of an induction cooker results in 12% savings in energy for the same amount of heat transfer when compared with a traditional electric stove, but it still needs electricity. An induction cooker is not included in the case study.

Stove

For the purpose of the case study the energy consumption of an electric stove and a gas stove were compared in order to determine the estimated monthly savings. The calculations are based on a family of three, with the assumption that 3.25 kg of LPG is required per month for their cooking needs.

The table below illustrates the estimated consumption and relevant energy cost for an electric stove.
Electric stove
Energy rating (kW) 0.8
Hours 1.5

Energy consumption (kWh) per day 1.2
Energy consumption (kWh) per month 37.2

Energy tariff (Tshwane 2014) (R/kWh) R1.47


Energy costs (per month) R54.68

The table below illustrates the estimated consumption and relevant energy cost for a gas stove.
Gas stove
Gas consumption per hour (g) 60
Hours 1.5

Gas consumption per day (g) 90
Gas consumption per month (g) 2790

9 kg LPG cost R221.00
LPG cost per g R0.02

Energy cost (per month) R68.51

The tables show that the use of a gas stove for cooking will have no energy savings. This is due to the high price of bottled LPG. Reticulated LPG prices are lower than bottled LPG prices which may make the use of a gas stove more energy efficient.

It is also important to consider the price of LPG compared with that of electrical energy. The increase in electrical energy tariffs might make the use of gas for cooking a viable solution in the near future. If availability of energy is considered the overriding consideration, gas would be a better choice than electricity.

Conclusion

It is critical that the client determines the energy consumption of their equipment in order to accurately calculate the potential savings. The monthly energy consumption of equipment can easily be determined by means of an energy monitor.
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Re: Beat load shedding with solar ...

Post by KOBUSL »

Shaun se sisteem is ideaal vir die huis.
Koste deesdae is ongeveer R 2500 vir 'n 250 w paneel en R 5000 vir 'n (NIE CHINESE) 3 kw inverter. Battery pryse wissel, ek het Delco 102 a/u
vir R 1400 gekry.

Die groot gevaar is : DAAR IS BAIE FLY-BY-NIGHT'S in die veld wat mense op die oomblik ERG rip-off. Bly by handelaars wat 'n goeie reputasie het, bv Current Automation en Exsolar .

Chris, die UPS wat die rekenaar ouens smous is maar net om die werk waarmee jy besig is , te save, en dan die ding af te skakel. Ek gebruik 'n inverter met laaier en 4 x 12 v 102 a/u batterye, wat maklik die load shedding deurgaan ( en 7e laan ) , plus twee panele op die dak van 230 w wat bedags die batterye laai.

As die $$$$$ beskikbaar is gaan ek 10 panele en 'n grid tied sisteem opsit, wat meen bedags gebruik jy sonkrag vir jou huis, en wat oortollig is gaan in die grid in. Ongelukkig werk die sisteem net as Eskom krag lewer, maar daar is maniere om daarby verby te kom.
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Re: Beat load shedding with solar ...

Post by Masekind »

Dankie vir die info Andy het n heat pump op gesit en werk baie nice, het net op getel die heat pump se max temp. is 60C en die geyser 80C (gemeet met die heat pump se instruments) so waar n bad water 30% warm water met die geyser is, is dit 90-95% met die heat pump maar n mens spaar nogsteed krag. Net in die winter is die 60C net net te lag. :lmao: :lmao:

(Ons weet nie wat load shedding is nie :yahoo: :yahoo:
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Re: Beat load shedding with solar ...

Post by 4x4Grant »

Has anyone investigated gas geysers? We in the process of moving house and the new house lends well to a gas geyser.

I know gas is fairly costly at the moment but with the way things are heading its better to be able to cook then to not be able to cook.

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Re: Beat load shedding with solar ...

Post by ChrisF »

4x4Grant wrote:Has anyone investigated gas geysers? We in the process of moving house and the new house lends well to a gas geyser.

I know gas is fairly costly at the moment but with the way things are heading its better to be able to cook then to not be able to cook.

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the modern units are very nice.


but as you say - gas is expensive thus solar may still be the cheaper long term alternative.


What I have recommended for a holiday\retirement home :
SOLAR for the TWO retired people - low cost and effective
GAS in the spare bath room - provides perfect extra capacity AS NEEDED when the family drops in over the holidays ....
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Re: Beat load shedding with solar ...

Post by 4x4Grant »

For a family of 3 what would be my best option in solar geysers and rough idea of cost?

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Re: Beat load shedding with solar ...

Post by ChrisF »

4x4Grant wrote:For a family of 3 what would be my best option in solar geysers and rough idea of cost?

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I would recommend a 300 liter solar system.

your house will guide the possible installation options ... and thus the price. Best to get the guys in your area to come out and give you some quotes.
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Re: Beat load shedding with solar ...

Post by 4x4Grant »

Thanks ChrisF.

Ok on the subject lets talk 12v lighting for a house.

Would you recommend it or would you say go 24v with inverter for backup? With 12v my thoughts are solar to charge the batteries to run them. There for taking my lighting off the grid as such. With a backup battery charger in case.

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Re: Beat load shedding with solar ...

Post by ChrisF »

Grant the answer lies in onces view of the future of SA ....

YES, we are in for another couple of tough electrical years - the powers that be have now finally realised we have a problem ... but any and all solutions will take YEARS to implement.

Without new power sources SA is doomed.

okay, enough bad news.


the POSITIVE REALITY is that there are so many business men ready to invest obscene amounts to generate power in SA - as soon as it is both practical and viable.



now the real question - just how much do you want to tincker with your house in this interem period ???


from a LEGAL perspective :
- an electrician must issue a COC for all electrical work in your house.
- BUT, this COC is issued in terms of the electrical wiring code
- NOTE - the wiring code does NOT cover the use of DC (12V) inside a house ...
- Thus you need to get any of these new systems signed off by an electrical engineer - not that these engineers want to risk their name on a diy job ....

nice catch-22 situation ...
:(


bearing this in mind - here are the THEORETICAL options (theoretical until the reggs catch up) :

1) 220V lights (as we are used to)

2) totally separate 12V installation - messy, and will look like a bad wire-glued-to-walls mess

3) chase new conduits in the walls - nou praat jy n vuil job en dit gaan geld kos !

4) double up onto the existing system - pull new 12V wires into the existing conduits, and install a select set of 12V back up lights. NOTE - for this option the insulation of the new wires MUST match that of the existing wires for the installation to meet the Regulatory standards !!

5) as per your post - separate your lighting circuit from the 220V DB, and turn it to 12V ..... certainly a system worthy of further thought. EXCEPT - at THIS stage, you cant get an electrician to sign off on such a system (purely because it falls outside the scope of the wiring code)



looking at the Regulations, the practical issues, and the realistic future of Eskom = for the next year at least I will just go with camp lighting for the odd load shed at night. But then here in the Republic of the Western Cape we dont (yet) have 10 hour load sheds...




have a look at 4x4Direct - number of rechargable lighting options ... MUST be cheaper than any serious rewiring options at home ...
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Re: Beat load shedding with solar ...

Post by 4x4BEES »

Saw on a lamp post poster today

Zuma blames ESKOM problems on apartheid :shock2: :shock2:

Did not read the newspaper today and don't think I want to.
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Re: Beat load shedding with solar ...

Post by KOBUSL »

Grant, what Chris is saying makes perfect sense. Most of the LED lights are 12 v units with a small transformer. Me think the way to go is to get an inverter/charger wired into the light circuit ( is it legal Chris ? ) to have lights. A small 1 KW unit should be ok. a 12 v Battery will do the job. If you go 24 v, the inverter will be more efficient, and 48 v, more so. But you will need more batteries. The inverter charger will charge you batteries when Escom is working, and switch over to battery power once the batteries are full. If Escom dies, the inverter would automaticly go to the batteries.

Most of the inverters have got a PV ( sun panel ) facility, and will use the sun as the first charger, then the grid.
This method will spare you a double wiring of your house. But, the more stuff you want to run off batteries, the more $$$$ it becomes.
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Re: Beat load shedding with solar ...

Post by ChrisF »

Kobus wiring a solar system into the mains via a relay now done by various companies.


BUT, once you wire into your DB you have a slight issue - ALL items have full access to this power ....


Think of the PROPER way to wire in a generator -
- auto switch over (or a manual switch)
- SPLIT DB, thus your DB is pre-wired for which items are fed from the generator (typically lights and a few plugs)


The exact same should apply to using battery power instead of a generator -
- auto or manual switch over
- split DB ...



any way you slice this cake it stay very expensive !!



My neighbour is an electrical contractor - he does not want to go through this split DB story at home

Another friend, and member on the other forum, is also an electrical contractor - also refuse to go this route at home.


In fact - BOTH refuse to even quote to do these home switch overs. Both have the same experiences - clients simply dont understand why it costs thousands and thousands to wire in a generator. These costs would be in addition to any solar\battery\inverter costs.
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4x4Grant
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Re: Beat load shedding with solar ...

Post by 4x4Grant »

Thanks guys.

Lots to think about and mull over at this stage.

For me a genset is still an over kill. Backup lights is all I need at this stage. I currently use 12v leds from my camping setup but i would like to have something more fixed that is wired in and easy to use and not a question of get out the garage. Not only for load shedding but for the odd black out we have during storms or normal power failure.

You guys really are awesome and have given me very valuable information. Thanks again for sharing proves why this is a great forum to call home.

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Re: Beat load shedding with solar ...

Post by Mud Dog »

Mud Dog wrote:Thanks Chris. Chris's article here was prompted by a telephonic discussion we had the day before about my ideas to install a small power contingency to cover the basics in the event of power cuts ...............
I'm currently using camping lights and camping gas cooker as a back-up. I have a working solar assisted geyser, so hot water is not really a problem. The camping lights (5 of them) are running of small 7ah batteries and since I already had them out, I now run them every night irrespective of any shedding. They run an average of 4 hours a night and manage 3 nights with ease before the batteries require recharging. The light they give isn't great, but adequate to get by most of the time which means that we use eskom lights a lot less.

Hooking up the lights and charging batteries is a bit of a pain, so my idea was / is to have a more convenient setup with two 80W solar panels separately hooked up to two 92ah medium cycle batteries, each with it's own regulator (with smart charging capability). The medium or semi deep cycle batteries are a lot cheaper than deep cycle and should work fairly well.

The plan is to use one panel / battery to run basic lighting (12V LED's) and the other to run a TV, computer + monitor and ADSL router using a pure sine wave inverter. The LED's will have their own permanent 12V circuit with an appropriate fuse to protect the battery and wiring. The inverted 220V circuit will comprise two dedicated plug points on a completely independent circuit. I don't think I even need to install a circuit breaker since the 1000W inverter has it's own overload breaker.

The cost should be roughly around the R5k mark excluding the inverter which I already have ... not the end of the world, and unlike a genny, (I have one as well), will provide a small cost saving every month. I doubt the cost saving will ever be enough to recover the initial outlay when one has to replace the batteries every few years, but at this point it's more about a convenient back-up rather than cost saving.

The nice thing is that it lends itself to expansion if one desires to become less grid dependent and I can unplug a panel and transfer it to the Lux whenever I need to (I will fit a custom cradle to the canopy for this purpose).
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