Hydrogen from water

Here we discuss various alternative energy solutions. From converting your car to electricity to converting your home to be off the grid.
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CasKru
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Mon Aug 25, 2008 1:19 pm

Ron... what do you think will happen if I only have an inlet and outlet and no bubblervalve? I will have a non-return valve on the inlet side to only allow flow into the container. Will this word or am I looking for trouble? (If asked at three different pet shops and none of them have bubbler valves).
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Irishman
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Mon Aug 25, 2008 5:49 pm

Hi Cassie, if you have no bubbler valve the gas cannot flow to your carb. Look at the pic of Pieter's gasifier on page 8 you will see a little green dingus. It is a little valve that adjusts the flow through the pipe part. This will work as a bubbler. You adjust it with the system running until there is a slow line of air bubbles going down into your electrolyte, this you should get in a pet shop. If you use more than one gasifier the second one dosen't need the bubbler.The valve I use I got from a bloke who doe's irrigation work.
The schematic shows what it must look like
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CasKru
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Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:08 pm

Thanks Ron... I'm being a typical male here... I don't need a manual :twisted:

I for some reason was under the impression the the bubbler is for the air going out :oops: :oops: So if I understand correctly it's a means of "controlling" the amount of airflow into the unit by means of visual confirmation of the amount of bubbles flowing in vs going out.
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Dadz Toy BFI

Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:05 pm

Keep going Big Ron

Let the detractors blow gas up there own a*se mate :P :P :P

We need more Big Ron's in this sorry cynical world :P

Rich

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Irishman
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Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:32 pm

Hi Cassie, you got it. The air goes in one end and the gas comes out the other. I fitted my electronic dizzy but it turned out to be US so I am back to an ordinary points type. What I did do I got the electrician to put the dizzy back one tooth advanced, which has allowed me to advance the spark to 14 deg before TDC, and my engine is running even better. I have now done about 700k's with the gas system installed with no problems at all. Come pension day I will fill up again and run another test over the same route I did the first one over. At least it will give the pump jockies at my local garage a laugh. The first time they were very puzzled about this old toppie who came three times to the garage in two hours and put five liters in.
Rich, as Del Boy says, he who dares wins.
Ron.

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CasKru
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Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:23 pm

Thanks Ron... I have seen the light :)

You must see the pump attendants this side. My bakkie's got two filler holes inside the pipe behind the cap. It's always a mission to explain to them to first fill teh one in front and then to move to the back... :D:
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Wed Aug 27, 2008 7:51 am

OK, now I moerse confused here....
Like the petrol jockey's when I pull up with my gas fill connector next to my petrol tank filler cap :mrgreen:

I thought the bubbler was a flashback arrestor. Thus, before you let the HHO into your carb, you first let it thru some water, thus if you get backfire like me on the gas, the gas ignited is minimal. This flashback arrestor container contains only clean water, no catalyst / electrical parts
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Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:17 am

Bottom line for me, any improvement in fuel usage Ron? I was a engineering student way back and we had a theoretical exercise with the system i.e. 'conceptual design'. But mathematics does not prove anything. But I'm a bit confused about if the system you guys are using actualy works?
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Dadz Toy BFI

Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:42 am

King Rat wrote:Bottom line for me, any improvement in fuel usage Ron? I was a engineering student way back and we had a theoretical exercise with the system i.e. 'conceptual design'. But mathematics does not prove anything. But I'm a bit confused about if the system you guys are using actualy works?
I think the Consistant and Significant Improvements reported by the Guys who are taking this Seriously are:

Smoother engine running and improved Power Output - still along way to go with Significant Fuel Saving :P

(But Innovation breeds Results) :P

Ps.... I don't recommend Niel's Mod; it's more for Personal Consumption and Aims to do the Converse : :o:

(Decrease Gas Ommission) :P

(see attached pic)
Attachments
Zero Emissions.jpg
Niel's Zero Ommission Kit - Don't Try this at home Kids!

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King Rat
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Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:51 am

Dadz Toy wrote: (But Innovation breeds Results) :P
This system has been around for about 50+ years, so it's not so innovative. But I need dyno figures, because fitting different engine mounts can also make a engine feel more smooth.
Dadz Toy wrote: Ps.... I don't recommend Niel's Mod; it's more for Personal Consumption and Aims to do the Converse : :o:
It looks like the more you drink the larger you become, or I'm reading the pic wrong :oops:
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Dadz Toy BFI

Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:55 am

King Rat wrote:
Dadz Toy wrote:
It looks like the more you drink the larger you become, or I'm reading the pic wrong :oops:
No, no, no Bru

SZ is the KEY Component of his Calorie Controlled Diet (Apparantly) :P

I'm not sure if this gizmo:

Injects or Removes the Offending Gaseous Matter :lol:

I'm sure Niel will put us in the picture at Kriges on Friday :roll: :P

Rich

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Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:57 am

It is a secret :shock: :shock: 8) :lol:

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Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:36 pm

All experimentation on the above has ceased until further notice.The washing machine and the vacuum cleaner have packed in, and I am getting a thousand words for working on my Lux :cry:
Ron.

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Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:26 pm

Ron, that's enough to drive a guy out of retirement!


On another sad note, have you heard about Billibo from the Caravan forum? :(


-F_D
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Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:39 pm

What's this about Balitto Eric?
To God be the glory

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Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:01 pm

Bill de Waal (Billibo) sadly passed away on Friday 22nd.

He was an administrator for the following forums:

Godonline.co.za forum
Caravan and Outdoor Life forum
SA4x4 Off-road Adventure forum
Bidorbuy.co.za forum
Namibia Tourism forum
Tsumeb Town forum


His funeral is in PTA this Friday 29th August...
at 13h00 Pretoria North Methodist Church.

I was a Mod with Bill on the old SA4x4 Forum. I never even knew he was ill. :(


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Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:52 pm

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Life is so short and it flies by so quick.....
To God be the glory

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Sat Aug 30, 2008 12:21 am

I joined up with this forum mainly because of my interest in Browns Gas.
I first saw the concept at a friend of mine in Hannover. His son (16y) is doing a school project on HHO. He is using a prototype build by some guy in Middelburg. It’s shape is more like a rectangular metal (I’m not sure if its SS or aluminum) box. He built it into his brother’s Uno (he was definitely not allowed to utilize one of the other farm bakkies for this experiment). He ran a few test runs and my father-in-law and he tweaked the carburetor and timing a bit to reach optimum results. The last I heard was that the CO emissions fell from 1.6 to round about 0.6 with the system on. His test results also revealed a fuel consumption of better that 22km per liter (impressive a thought, but still a bit skeptic). He recently revealed his project on a school expo in Bloem and received a Gold medal for it.
My question is, if there is an improvement on the combustion in the chamber, wouldn’t it increase the temperature of the engine (I guess this could only be answered by using EGT measurements).
My next question/concern is could this be harmfull to an aluminum alloy engine block?
My last concern is what is the effect on the lubrication in the chambers, especially with diesel engines where the diesel and fuel additives is aiding in the lubrication process.
I’ve downloaded the construction data of the water4gas system and is interested in the advantages thereof (which a don’t doubt) but my concern is the effect on the engine on the long run (heat, lubrication, corrosion, etc.)

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Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:30 am

Hi guys
I am a bit worried of the effect of the baking soda in the long run on the aluminium(corrosion) in the engine, I have heard you can replace the baking soda with white vinegar and get the same effect

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Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:08 am

300tdi wrote:I joined up with this forum mainly because of my interest in Browns Gas.
I first saw the concept at a friend of mine in Hannover. His son (16y) is doing a school project on HHO. He is using a prototype build by some guy in Middelburg. It’s shape is more like a rectangular metal (I’m not sure if its SS or aluminum) box. He built it into his brother’s Uno (he was definitely not allowed to utilize one of the other farm bakkies for this experiment). He ran a few test runs and my father-in-law and he tweaked the carburetor and timing a bit to reach optimum results. The last I heard was that the CO emissions fell from 1.6 to round about 0.6 with the system on. His test results also revealed a fuel consumption of better that 22km per liter (impressive a thought, but still a bit skeptic). He recently revealed his project on a school expo in Bloem and received a Gold medal for it.
My question is, if there is an improvement on the combustion in the chamber, wouldn’t it increase the temperature of the engine (I guess this could only be answered by using EGT measurements).
My next question/concern is could this be harmfull to an aluminum alloy engine block?
My last concern is what is the effect on the lubrication in the chambers, especially with diesel engines where the diesel and fuel additives is aiding in the lubrication process.
I’ve downloaded the construction data of the water4gas system and is interested in the advantages thereof (which a don’t doubt) but my concern is the effect on the engine on the long run (heat, lubrication, corrosion, etc.)
Gene.... not to sure if it will have an effect or anything like that. But what I can tell you is I worked in the fuel industry for a while (not for a particular oil company but installing automation systems at their gantries) and I've seen instances where they never realized that the additive pumps where not pumping or their vales not opening or the equipment not running to spec etc etc. This had the result that millions of litres of petrol / diesel was delivered without any additive.

To give you an idea, one of the sites I worked on moved about 8 million litres of fuel a day :o: :o: :o:

Some food for thought
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Tue Sep 02, 2008 4:25 pm

I have fixed the washing machine, and the vacuum cleaner, so I am now allowed to play with my Lux again.
To answer a couple of the queries above.
The baking soda never comes near your engine. It is used as a catalyst to produce the Brown's gas, and thats all. You are already producing corrosive elements just by burning petrol, these eat your exhaust pipe to pieces,as you should know to your cost. There is a whole industry out there replacing eaten up exhaust systems so I doubt a teaspoonful of baking powder is going to make a difference. I cant prove it but I get an impression my engine is running cooler since the conversion.Starting has also improved. I switch on the ignition wait 5 seconds for the gas to build up, and then one click of the starter and the engine bursts into life, this in spite of my Lux standing outside in the freezing cold.
I have now done 1000 kilos on the gas system with no ill effects at all, and my 4YE has 290000 on the clock.
Press on regardless,
Ron.

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Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:09 am

Ron, Cassie
Thanks for the reply. I also have to put in a sprinkler system in my garden and fix the two water features before attempting to touch my disco :( . (And my new dual battery system and spotlights is already waiting anxiously to be installed. I will also drive this system from the aux battery).
My questions are just minor concerns mainly because my disco’s aluminum block is quite sensitive to heat (a major drawback of the vehicle :( ). I however do have a EMS system fitted which monitor water temperature and level, oil pressure and temperature and the exhaust gas temperature so fitting the system could be quite an interesting project as the sensor will tell me what is happening in this regard (I’m also thinking about adding a secondary system monitoring an additional 2 to four sensors e.g. turbo casing, engine block etc).
Is anyone attempting this on a diesel vehicle and what are the results?
I’m thinking of going all the way (I’m a bit of a overkill person :lol: ) with a 2X3 or 3X2 electrolyzer setup, with custom PCV enhancer and a custom fuel heater (still reading more about this but it may be advantageous for especially diesel and future bio diesel which lose viscosity in cooler temperature).
I’m however still not sure about the vacuum setup of the electrolyzer.
Do you use the normal consul glass bottles for your electrolyzer?
Do you use the inline non return valves for the vacuum tubes?
Regards
Gene

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Irishman
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Wed Sep 03, 2008 9:31 am

Hi Gene, It's nice to see someone else joining the fray. I am using Consol glass jars, the only problem is the tin lid, because insulating the electrical connections is a hassel. If you can find a plastic lid that fits so much the better. I made my second lid (not the screwed part) out of the same perspex I used for the tower. There are no NR valves on the delivery pipes. Only the safety blow off valve on the lid of the first gasifier.
on.

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Wed Sep 03, 2008 9:56 am

King Rat wrote:Bottom line for me, any improvement in fuel usage Ron?
Hi Ron, have you got a answer for me yet? :)
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Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:32 am

King Rat wrote:
King Rat wrote:Bottom line for me, any improvement in fuel usage Ron?
Hi Ron, have you got a answer for me yet? :)
Irishman wrote:Hi Guys First test run over 44.1 kilometers.(GPS) Wind Calm, Temp 14deg C.
38% improvement.
Ron.
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Irishman
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Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:51 am

Hi Coenraad, I published the results, but they have got buried in all the messages
The test went as follows. Fill up at a specific pump until the auto cut out works on the pump. Do a circular route. Try to find a windless day for the test. A run from A to B and back is no good if there is any wind. Zero your GPS and measure the distance when you get back to the same specific pump. Fill up again, now do the same trip with the gas system hooked up. fill up again at the same pump. I tried to keep a constant speed of 100k on the GPS, my speedometer over reads by 10%. Now do your sums. I got a 38% improvement in fuel consumption. This was with two gasifiers in series. I have now done 1000k with the gas system, and my old 4YE is purring like a cat. I am busy building a third gasifier, and will run some tests again when it is fitted.
I don't know offhand of anyone who has tried it on a diesel, but I think fitting the fuel heater would be a good idea.
Ron.

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Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:09 am

Hi Ron,
Thanks for the reply and the follow-up. I did see your post on the first test run of 44 km's (thanks for reminding me Riaan, much appreciated :) ). But I saw the post by pietpetoors and he did not have as much luck as you had with the Tazz. And after that you did not mention subsequent test runs except to say that the starting is quicker and the engine is much smoother. In my previous life I worked for a manufacturer in their R&D department and most of the engine work was done on the dyno as you could keep most parameters more or less constant. That is why I asked if you had the vehicle on a dyno. I for one am more interested in if there is more power to be made by this conversion rather than better fuel consumption. 38% is a massive number, and I’m sure it must at least improve the torque figures of the 4Y no end!
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Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:22 am

Thought you didn't see it Coenraad, as this thread is on 11 pages. I thought it was on more km's travelled, but posted it anyway.

:D
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Irishman
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Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:30 pm

Hi Coenraad, I would dearly like to get my lux on a dyno but the only one anywhere near closed down for lack of business Pieter reported a power increase, and 8% improvement in consumption, but he did his test on a run from Langebaan to Capetown and back. I don't know if he filled up in Capetown, but it must be done at the same pump. The trip was a there and back which can also distort the figures.
There is a question posed on flying examinations which illustrate this point.
You fly a trip from A to B and back with no wind. You then fly the same route with a 50 knot head wind
Q will it take you longer
The same time
Less time.
Trip distance 100 miles
cruising speed 100 kts
Work it out
Ron.

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Wed Sep 03, 2008 7:36 pm

Hi Ron,
If I get my household chores (2 weekends at least :( ) out of the way I will start with my disco (after completion of the dual battery system and the spotlights).
I think the ultimate test would be on Diesel as this could probably prove the systems efficiency on low flashpoint fuel. Keep this thread open and I will report back.
How did you hook up the VAC system (I might have a problem there with diesel).
Regards
Gene

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Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:32 pm

Irishman wrote: P.S. To answer George's question it is a quarter teaspoon pure baking soda in distilled water.
Is this bicarb of soda? I hope so because thats what I'm using. The more of the stuff I put in, the more the bubbles, and the more amps it draws, and the warmer the water gets.
I am letting it bubble into another container with water (purity bottle), then it is easy to see how much bubbles there are. I made the mistake to light a lighter at that end, and it blew the lid off the 2nd bottle with a m@erse bang!!!

PS The grooves in the perspex are easily made with a tile cutting blade in a hacksaw, its precisely the correct diameter :P .

How can I test if the stuff coming out is the real thing without blowing myself up :?:

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Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:44 pm

Hi Piet I thing you just proved it :shock: :shock: :shock:
If your bottles get hot you have overdone it with the baking soda, and are wasting electricity. My two bottles are pulling about 7 amps.
Ron.

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Irishman
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Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:51 pm

Gene, if you can't get into your intake manifold, put it into your crankcase ventilation pipe or the air intake somewhere after the air filter.
Ron.

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Sat Sep 06, 2008 8:55 pm

The only "vacuum" you have on a diesel engine is the resistance of the airfilter in the intake system. This obviously starts diminishing if you are running with a snorkel with forward facing pickup that starts acting as a ram at higher speed. The ram effect is slight, but will affect the "vacuum" you are hoping to get.

What I thought of doing (NOT TESTED AND ONLY A THOUGHT), was to bleed off a feed between the turbo and the manifold with an adjustment tap that would feed the first of your HHO generator bottles causing a high pressure through the bottles. HOWEVER, on the diesels, we learned a lesson with LP gas when we over fueled as a % to diesel, and the scrubbing effect caused a loss of lubrication and ultimately engine failure. SO, the idea we had was to run a progressive throttle system based on either turbo pressure or something more direct like a pickup directly off the throttle body that would progressively switch the generators on. The generators, as you can see, do create a positive pressure in a closed system to expel the gas into the air intake.

WARNING, my system is all theory at the moment as my practical has been put on hold by "life happens" and a house move to a property where I now have one garage and not 5 like before...No workshop anymore and have to play outside :( :( :x :cry:
Later....
David
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Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:23 am

Hi Ron
I've built a second one and looks quite good. I'm using mayo-bottles and fishtank pipes at the moment for experimental purposes. I use ½ a teaspoon of bicarb and there is no heat buildup. 6Amps per container.I could put in less bicarb to lower the current.
Is there a safe way to see this stuff burn on the test bench :?:

The place where the vacuum guage is connected on my KZTE looks to me as an obvious place to tee in, but I'm not sure. I do need some advice here, like a coloured in picture :confused:

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Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:44 pm

Hi,
I’ve made some enquiries about HHO at a mechanic that work on my vehicle and it seems that there is quite a lot of people (especially mechanics) that is playing quite a while with it (even my mechanic played with in and he didn’t seem like the experimental type of guy :?: :confused: ).
I’m going to alter the basic design a bit in the following matter:
The HHO is generated from the distilled water, and the baking soda (sort of catalyst) is actually a type of pollutant that is causing the water to conduct electricity (distilled water do not conduct electricity and thus the need for some “pollutant” to aid in this). The amount of baking soda (pollutant) then controls the amount of current and thus is related to the amount of HHO generated and thus also heat generated and current consumed. The baking soda is however causing the deteriorating of the conductors and generating heat etc. Thus in creating more efficient conductors will result in less baking soda in the solution (theoretically I think).
My idea is to stack stainless steel plates in the shape of a lead acid battery in close proximity to each other. I will then experiment with the amount of baking soda in the solution and carefully monitor the current consumption and temperature to reach an optimal balance for the solution. This is based on another design I’ve seen that is built in a similar fashion. This will also drastically shrink the design. The only consideration would then be how big the container must be to decrease the maintenance period (adding solution and replacing/scrubbing the plates). The other reason is that this design would drastically increase the area where the HHO will generate and hopefully increase the amount of gas compared to the current consumption and generated heat. I will also consult with a few other local people who are also playing around with the HHO generators.
I’m also doing some serious reading on the http://www.brownsgas.com/hho_gas.html site.

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Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:16 am

HI Gene. My experience so far is with one cell the size of a 1 litre jam jar you do not get much results. You need at least two or more. So if I were you I would rather not concentrate on getting your design as small as possible but rather as efficient as possible. Sounds like a good idea if you can fit stainless plates in the style of a lead acid battery, you can perhaps even use an old battery case.
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Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:18 am

Gene, thanx for the Browns Gas link, I found this page on electrodes very interesting:
http://www.brownsgas.com/best_hho_electrode.html
My first test unit I tried out two years ago used tubes.
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Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:31 pm

Interesting couple of websites you guys found. The electrolyte story was interesting to me ,because as you saw I got a lot of sediment at 900k's. I will try the vinegar route when I fit my third gasifier, (if the rain stops long enough.) I wouldn't trust that popular mechanics story too much :twisted: I thing BIG OIL is getting a little nervous, and they can't buy off all of us, although they could twist my arm for a million bucks US 8)
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Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:37 pm

That Popular Mechanics story is inconclusive :| The man makes clear what his opinion is but but at the end does not really answer my questions. I do, however, have a study done by NASA in the seventies on the Hydrogen/Petrol mixture. It's very interesting. They, unfortunately, introduced the hydrogen via a gas cylinder and not the system you use. I'll post the doc tomorrow. But they state that the NOx produced by the Hydrogen/Petrol is far in excess than the NOx produced by the running of petrol alone! Hope that's not true as this system could be the reason the car manufacturers do not have it installed already, as they are in no way under the BIG OIL business's influence.
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Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:52 pm

Hi Piet, that web site you posted is interesting. At least he is not making crazy claims, and is getting the same results as I am. Three grand is a bit steep for a unit you can build for fifty bucks. It would be interesting to see what he is using for electrodes, but I see his unit is black to prevent one seeing them. Maybe we should get Eric to put on a false beard, and go and spy on them I see they are in Potch :D
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Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:43 pm

Isn't 20Amps a bit much in his system Ron?

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Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:30 pm

Piet, it's difficult to tell, as we don't know what is inside his unit. If he is using plates it could be that high.He also dosen't talk about multiple units. At three grand a pop more units would be definitely out.
Ron.

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Tue Sep 09, 2008 5:19 pm

Hi Ron, that http://www.hydrofuelafrica.com/ is also the business from Basie Roode from Malmesbury. They are trying to get the whole Hydroxy thing regulated so that you are not allowed to build and install your own unit. They also have an electrolyte which you will then have to buy from them only. I guess they are trying to create just another monopoly.

By the way, http://www.brownsgas.com/best_hho_electrolyte.html says that it is the best to use Sodium Hydroxide for the electrolyte. I must just go ad have a look but I am sure I must still have some in the garage. If I still have I will give you some to use in your next test run.
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Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:09 pm

Hi Guys,
I've studied the brownsgas site a bit and made some enquiries. It seems that the tubular design is best with sodium hydroxide (NaHO or caustic soda or 'byt soda") as the best electrolite (don't buy to much caustic soda as you may find SAPS on your doorstep as it seems to be used in the manufacturing of drugs :D:)
My inquiries at a local metal dealer also revealed that i'm able to purchase stainless steel tubing from about 76mm (about R300 per meter) in diametre and smaller in steps of opproximately 10mm smaller (5mm spacer between tubes).
I think my design will be in the form of three tubes, in 20mm intervals with the largest 76mm (10mm spacers on both sides to allow free movement of the bubbles) with the largest one the 76mm. I will utlize non conducting nylon (caustic soda safe, I think) bolts and spacers available at electronic shops to evenly space the tubes in a non conductive manner. I will try to polish and troroughly clean the tubes to remove all other contaminents e.g. oily residues from handling etc.
I will then link the outer and inner tube with stainless steel wire which will form my one electrode while using the centre tube as the other electrode (not sure which one + or -, it will depend where the most bubbles will form and that will be my centre electrode - thus trying to optimise the HHO forming process.
This design will also aid in the reduction of fluid movement in rough terrain (another fear to slove is what happens if some fluid is sucked up the system into the chambers in rough terrain). I'm also going to use some plastic bulkhead connectors, Non return valves and maybe PTFE tubing to be on the safe side.
This design may be more expensive that the wire design but I'm quite exited about the idea (still have to do the garden route for a weekend or two before starting with this :cry: ).
If somone have some ideas on this please let me know.
Keep this thread going :!: :!: :!:

Dadz Toy BFI

Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:37 pm

Keep going Gaseous Guys 8) 8) 8)

You're Legends :P :P :P

Much respect :wink:

Rich
Last edited by Dadz Toy BFI on Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:00 pm

Pieter, I sent you two private messages, but they still sit in my outbox
I have a gasifier on my bench testing vinegar as an electrolyte. If you find the sodium hydroxide, you could maybe pop across, and we could test the sodium hydroxide together, before I fit the unit into the Lux. Give me a bell on 0828981032 just to make sure I am here.
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Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:51 am

Hi Ron
I replied to it late last night. I was taking Benhur on a tour to Tietiesbaai, Trekoskraal and Jacbobsbaai and we only got home late.
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Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:52 am

Mr Ron, I've got the magic potion, we can arrange a drop off time.
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Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:57 pm

dalkill wrote:ROn,

I have read alot about the 'thermodynamics' that says it takes more petrol to drive the alternator to create the current needed to power the electrodes than the amount of gas / energy produced. All kinds on numbers / equations that just makes my head hurt.

One person made a good point that the alternator is being driven by the engine regardless , so you just using the current that would have been lost in any event. Is this true? Nobody answered the man on this point however.

What is you thoughts / experince on this.
Unfortunately the more load you put on your electrical system, more is required from your alternator and it does compensate on your engine. More load on the alternator, the engine needs to pick up a bit to allow the alternator to generate required electricity.

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Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:33 am

Wow! Been very interested in this topic for quite some time now. Bought a 2.7i doublecab in Dec last year and looking for fuel saving ideas and came across a local site promoting it with water to gas electrolizers. All is explained in this thread,as well as in the beginning of the thread, some of the links that are totally against the apparent SCAM. I'm a believer! So many people are doing the experimenting and getting results. I think its definitely worth a try and thanks for all the info!!

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Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:22 pm

I came across this link while looking at something completely different, but thought it might be of interest here. If not, I will delete the post, as I haven't read any of it.

http://supercaronwater.com/?src=gc&camp ... %20economy


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Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:02 pm

Hi Eric, it is actually the same as what we are doing, it is just another affiliate site promoting one of the eBooks.
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Sun Sep 28, 2008 6:36 pm

This subject has gone a bit quite for the last couple of weeks. A note on the safety aspect which seemed to worry some people. I fitted a third gasifier, and when out testing it I went over a big pot hole, so I stopped to check the unit. Two of the wires had touched causing a short ,and the wire got so hot it burned halfway through the perspex before popping the fuse. There was a little smoke coming out of the relief valve, but thats all. (No need to change my underpants and order a hearing aid like someone else) :oops:
I have changed the electrolyte in all three units to the Pieter & Ron formula. It works the best so far.
Ron.

Dadz Toy BFI

Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:04 pm

Irishman wrote:This subject has gone a bit quite for the last couple of weeks. A note on the safety aspect which seemed to worry some people. I fitted a third gasifier, and when out testing it I went over a big pot hole, so I stopped to check the unit. Two of the wires had touched causing a short ,and the wire got so hot it burned halfway through the perspex before popping the fuse. There was a little smoke coming out of the relief valve, but thats all. (No need to change my underpants and order a hearing aid like someone else) :oops:
I have changed the electrolyte in all three units to the Pieter & Ron formula. It works the best so far.
Ron.
Well Done Big Ron :P

Keep chipping away at the old block, we're watching and learning :wink:

Rich

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Fri Oct 03, 2008 6:25 pm

Ron
How is the vinegar doing as an electolyte?

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Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:06 pm

Hi Danie, the vinegar worked ok, but it is a bit corrosive. In the meantime Pieter and I experimented with another electrolyte, which is giving excellent results. If you want to try it PM me and I will give you the formula. We are keeping it a secret as there is a conman checking our progress.
Ron.

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Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:29 pm

Hi Ron
I've sent you a pm but it seems to be stuck in the outbox :oops: , let me know if youve received it
Cheers
Danie

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