Crayfish in Paternoster??

[pietpetoors]

I hope somebody can give me a bit of education here, seems like I have my facts wrong.

1. Fist of all I would like to know if it is still crayfish season and if there are people who have the right to catch and sell crayfish even out of season?
2. Who regulates the conservation of crayfish, Parksboard or the SAPS?

On Sunday 28 June 2009 I was driving through Paternoster when I saw people there selling crayfish openly in the streets like usual. As far as I am concerned the crayfish season already closed at easter weekend.

I then submitted a topic on the SANParks forum and I received this email from one of the moderators who happen to be a Dutchman sitting in the Netherlands moderating our local parksboard forum.

Good morning Pieter!
I have taken off your post about the crayfish fishing.
Unfortunately this is not anything SANParks has any influence on as it's outside of any area they manage.
Maybe the best step would be to go to the police or a like organisation? (Being Dutch I don't know what the options are in South Africa.)
Best regards,
Duco

[hentey]

Ag Piet, jy weet mos hoe die goete innie Weskus werk,die mense se redenasie is mos " die liewen Jirre hettie krief vi onse aalmal getjee,enne glattie virrie govermintie. Maar pasop want as jy n kreef by daai mense koop is dit dieselfde as die handel in ongeslypde diamante.Party van die handelaars is polisie lokvinke.

[george]

Hi Piet.
It is illegal.I once spoke to the local police and they told me that they allow it because the people have no income.
The only people that have jurisdiction is the Police and MCM(Marine coastal managment).MCM was once there and the people almost killed them.
A lot of them used to do it legally but there permits was not renew.
The biggest shame is that the season is closed and it is breeding season now.
The other point to consider is that the police will fine you if you buy it from them.

[pietpetoors]

So if I make a living from selling drugs I can do it openly on the street because shame, I am making a living from it?
It is just a different substance but I am still breaking the law by doing it.

I have heard numerous stories that police hold road blocks just outside Paternoster. The guys are allowed to sell it openly in town and then when they catch you at the road block they fine you.

[dalkill]

Yep george is on the money there - that be MCM and DEAT domain.

Typical SA mentality though, go for the symptoms not the cause. :evil:
Like george said, it be breeding season, and what they doing is just shooting themselves in the foot. If they continue lke this, there will be no crab left to sell

[Mud Dog]

Refer it to Carte Blanche. More chance of something being done about it.

[george]

What they doing are wrong and the people that buy from them are also wrong.
But this is a bit of a problem for the authorities. The true sustainable fisherman use to catch for a living and sell it to the factories. That is all they know and that is what they can teach there kids. The problem came when Kortbroek and the likes took away their right to fish and gave the permits to the big companies and their cronies. This has been featured on carte Blanche, but the authorities do not know how to deal with it. They just left the poor people to their own devices.

[pietpetoors]

MCM or DEAT responded with the following:

Dear Mr Pretorius,

I am very encouraged at your vigilance and I wish that most members of the public could even approach the sellers, asking them to produce documentation regarding the legality of possessing such fish. If I recall, they might also have arresting powers if the circumstances warrant so. I do not know the specific facts about the incident you cited and would encourage that you get hold of the nearest Fishery Control Officer and alert him/her should you have suspicion of wrongdoing.

Certainly, fishing crayfish is allowed for specific periods and not at all when the fish is breeding.

Regards,
Ntobeko Bacela

[Mud Dog]

This bloke must be an ignoramus!!

members of the public could even approach the sellers, asking them to produce documentation regarding the legality of possessing such fish. If I recall, they might also have arresting powers

You'd be taking you life in your hands asking for documentation, never mind attempting a citizen's arrest!!

Certainly, fishing crayfish is allowed for specific periods and not at all when the fish is breeding.

They're not fish, but crustations .... Eish!

[pietpetoors]

This bloke must be an ignoramus!!

Be polite, he is the "Director: Inshore Fisheries Management"
I wanted to add my opinion about the reply but decided not to, but I think you sum it up nicely.
I asked him to email me the contact details of the Fishery Official so that one can contact them and make them aware if it (if that will help at all)

[wacky]

I agree with muddog; how can u go ask for doc's.That's suicidal .not to mention arrest.the vendor will ask u "het jy papiere vir TIK. :roll:

[pietpetoors]

Mr Bacela came back with a number. I think the least one can do is when you see they are doing at least give the officer in charge a call and ask to go and have a look.
The number: Mr Willem Basson 078 714 7422

I see it is a landline number, so I doubt that it will be manned over weekends but I will test it the next time I go there.

The Chief Fishery Control Officer responsible for Paternoster together with St Helena is Mr Willem Basson. He can be reached on 022 736 1118. Please note that I have also been copying your correspondence to the Chief Director and Directors who can assist you further, should you need so.

[george]

Cool Piet.
It will be interesting to see what the response is

[Mud Dog]

Here's hoping that you have some joy, Pieter. Maybe you should try contact him now anyway and make him aware of the problem, rather than wait for the weekend.

[george]

Things are only going to get worse.
http://jv.news24.com/Rapport/Suid-Afrik ... 82,00.html
Vissers se laaste lewenslyn geknip toe hofbevel eindig
Llewellyn Prince


Kaapstad

Nóg ’n harde slag het Suid-Afrika se reeds vuisvoos bestaans- en kleinskaalvissers getref toe hul laaste lewenslyn summier afgeknip is.

Die tussentydse gelykheidshofbevel wat dié vissersgemeenskappe die reg gegee het om 20 krewe per week en 30 lynvisse per dag te vang, het Dinsdag geëindig.

Vissers is so desperaat dat hulle hul glo selfs tot veediefstal wend om te oorleef.

“Nou is hulle totaal aan hul eie lot oorgelaat vir oorlewing met geen reg op die see nie,” sê mnr. Naseegh Jaffer, direkteur van die Masifun-dise-ontwikkelingstrust. Dié nie-regeringsorganisasie beywer hom vir die regte van Suid-Afrika se bestaans- en kleinskaalvissers.

“Ons onderhandel met die direktoraat van mariene en kusbestuur (MKB) om die tydperk vir lynvis te verleng en oorweeg dit ook sterk om weer hof toe te gaan vir nog ’n bevel.”

Rapport het Elandsbaai aan die Weskus die afgelope week besoek om uit vind hoe dié mense nou gaan oorleef.

Sowat 20 vissers drom ledig by ’n huis saam. Kinders speel in die stofstrate.

Elke tweede huis lyk erg vervalle en vissers sit droëbek in die son langs omgekeerde roeibote.

Mnr. Neville Newman sê reguit namens die groep van 20: “Die regering het ons in misdadigers verander.

“Ons vang vis om ons gesinne te onderhou. Nou moet ons dit steel. As beamptes van mariene- en kusbestuur jou vang, word jy met R5 000 beboet of kry jy tronkstraf.

“Sowat 50% van ons het nou misdaadrekords.

“Ons gaan tronk toe vir stropery of vir veediefstal omdat ons boere se vee moet steel om te oorleef.

“Maar ons sal aanhou stroop en vat wat ons toekom. Dit is waarom Elandsbaai nou bo aan die lys is vir kreefstropery,” sê Newman.

Volgens hom vang nog net 6 van die oorspronklike sowat 104 bestaansvissers in dié dorp vis vir die plaaslike fabriek.

Me. Tina Joemat-Pettersson, nuwe minister van landbou, bosbou en visserye, het onlangs gesê dat daar gekyk word na ander werkgeleenthede vir vissersgemeenskappe.

Landbou, toerisme, konstruksiewerk, voedselprosessering en verbruikersgoedere is genoem.

Joemat-Pettersson het ook die moontlikheid genoem dat die toekenning van viskwotas hersien kan word.

Newman sê toe die kwotastelsel in 1994 begin is, is die bestaansvissers oor die hoof gesien.

“Kwotas is eerder toegeken aan kommersiële maatskappye, plaaslike sakemanne, prokureurs, onderwysers of mense van Transvaal wat die see nie eens ken nie.”

“Ons weet tot vandag nie waarom ons kwota-aansoeke afgekeur is nie.

“Hoekom word ons nie geken in die opstel van die visbeleid nie? Net die groot maatskappye word erken, maar dit is hulle wat die visbronne uitroei.”

Mnr. Paul Boois, nog ’n visser, sê: “As die regering regtig omgee, moet hulle die see weer oopstel vir bestaansvissers.

“Nie een van ons het ’n ordentlike huis nie. Ons kinders slaap op die grond. Ons moet van die hand na die tand leef.”

Oor die alternatiewe werkgeleenthede sê Newman: “Dié manne is te oud om iets nuuts te leer. ’n Visserman sal ’n visserman sterwe. Dit is in ons bloed.”

Volgens Newman het die MKB al verskeie taakspanne na hulle gestuur om hul klagtes aan te hoor, “maar ons wag tot vandag toe nog op terugvoer”.

[Irishman]

I have been to Paternoster twice this week, and the usual crowd of crayfish sellers were no were to be seen so maybe the forum has had some effect.I can only repeat what others have said.Don't buy them. If you are caught with them it is not only a fine, they can confiscate your vehicle as well. Those fisheries aholes would love a fully equipped 4X4 to charge up and down the beach (They are allowed to)
Ron.

[pietpetoors]

They were selling CrayFish in Paternoster again yesterday. I could not get hold of Mr Basson yesterday but talked to him this morning.

He said that they did catch some guys there on Friday. Apparently they only confiscate the crayfish they have with them.

He also said that there are a small number of fisherman who have permits to still catch Crayfish and sell to the factories. But the street selling is illegal.

I now have a cell number of Mr Basson. You can contact him on Willem Basson 078 714 7422

[Buff]

This is a catch 22 situation. One would love to bust these guys but in all honesty, this is their only livelyhood. They have been brought up on the ocean, his dad was a fishman and his dads dad was a fisherman. He knows nothing else but fishing and he's bloody good at it. Personally I feel the gov. is at fault here. If they want to pass these pathetic laws that they struggle to regulate then it is their responsibility to set up training facilities and train this people in a new skill.
I mean honestly, would you perfer he sells 5 illigal crays for R10 or breaks into your Lux in an attempt to feed his family?
Leave them be, the Chinese are plundering the marine resources the world over and yet gov is doing sweet fanny adams about that. Kippie and his crayfish isn't even denting the stock levels.

[george]

Bret I do agree with you.But unfortunatly 2 wrongs do not make it right.
On another point.Those boats are illegal.There is no safety equipment.SAMSA can actually stop them.

[pietpetoors]

I am onto the Crayfish thing again.
"The law is there to PROTECT the crayfish stocks. "
Is this really the case?

I was rather cheesed off the other day when a friend of mine bought some crayfish at "The Crayfish Co." in Saldanha. When he arrived at my place I told him that most of the crayfish he bought was under size. He was upset an phoned the owner of "The Crayfish Co." The owner then told him that the commercial guys are allowed to take out 75mm crayfish as where our recreational guys may only take out 80mm crayfish.
NOW WHO ARE THESE LAWS PROTECTING???
The commercial guys or the crayfish stock??
I mean this is crazy. The commercials are taking out more crayfish than the recreational guys so actually this should be the other way around.

Seems to me that these rules and regulations got absolutely nothing to do with conserving the crayfish.

[BenHur]

No its conserving the ministers' back pocket

[Family_Dog]

The owner then told him that the commercial guys are allowed to take out 75mm crayfish as where our recreational guys may only take out 80mm crayfish.

The owner would be obliged to say that, to cover himself. Maybe you should hear what the Dept of Fisheries (or whatever it's called) has to say about this. Personally, I don't believe it.


-F_D

[george]

Piet I agree with you.
Another example is fishing.When we catch kabeljou from the boat it has to be 50cm,but for commercials it is 40cm :wth:
Realy does not make sense

[Niel]

George, jy weet mos die besluit nemers is n klomp walskippers en hulle word geadviseer deur kantoor joggies wat numbers crunch ......common sense is n vloekword eish !!!!

[pietpetoors]

Dit raak nou regtig belaglik.
Was vandag gou in Paternoster en die manne verkoop oop en bloot in die straat Perlemoen.
Hierdie hele kamstige wet is een groot grap. Die ouens soos ons moet alles volgense die boek doen en die smokkelaars het vrye teuls om te maak net wat hulle wil.

[Niel]

manne verkoop oop en bloot in die straat Perlemoen

Ek het gehoor vir die ouens wat "wetsgehoorsaam is" dat jy nie mag perlemoen uithaal aan die weskus nie - nie seker van waar tot waar die gebied strek nie.

Pieter, jy moet onthou dat smokkel beteken eintlik dat as jy skulpies uithaal en niemand weet wat jy doen nie dan is dit smokkel :shifty: maar as jy onwettig uitgehaalde skulpies uithaal en jy wys dit aan ander, met die doel om te verkoop ...., is dit eintlik nie smokkel nie dis dan "street legal" my bru Wette is mos gemaak om gebreek te word

[pietpetoors]

Seems like something is happening, today's Weslander reported that they conviscated 7,000 illegal crayfish of which only 1980 were size. See article below: Now we can see where all the crayfish are going to. The 4,386 tails were of course all the very small ones.

[dalkill]

Yes, you all know.... I just had to put my 2p in the pot here as well.
:D
I agree with you guys. The laws out there is to protect the back pocket via bigger industries.

Personally I think laws should get tougher... ja this is from an old salty spending many an hour on the beach.
Guys, some i personally know as well, show scant disregard for the law.
I try to educate, but it's an uphill battle.

Then I suggest things like make stumpnose limit 5 / man at 35cm instead of 10 / man at 25cm at langebaan
No response from DEAT / MCM. And now, for the last two seasons, have not caught one decent stump. Hopefully we not past point of no return for the baan.

I also suggested, why not close areas like pringle bay for crayfish, and open oudekraal.
There are monster crayfish there. I'm sure guys would be happy with one big crab instead of 2 undersized ones.
Like a farmer rotating his herd so that they feed on diff patches
Alas, no response again.

Thus I would like to see stricter rules enforced. Like if you have undersized fish, confiscate the tackle.
Sell it to make more money, not for the back pockets but conservation.
But then if you get strict, do so across the board... even the commercials and japanese trawlers.
I have heard rumors of the foreign guys paying okes in transkei to use dynamite to get reef fish where they can't reach. :wth:
Can't say if it's true, but would not put it past them

[pietpetoors]

I like your rotating idea.
I think the biggest problem is that the law gets enforced on the recreational guys but the rest can do as they please. I mean then guys are selling crayfish tails and perlemoen in the open in Paternoster and the police drive past them without anything being done, but if they catch you with it they either give you a huge fine or confiscate your vehicle.

Shaakir, keep your eye on the articles on my blog at http://www.bokkom.co.za/blog/category/fishing/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; The guy who writes it for me knows the baan well.

If you fish for Stompneus have you ever fished at Calypso?