Dirty Diesel

[Arri]

Has anyone read the article in Chemical Technology April 2008 Issue
Titled: dirty diesel.
Poor transport methods, poor handling, sloppy storage and corruption causes quality diesel leaving the South African refineries to become dirty diesel and this bears numerous implication to modern diesels that are more susceptible to fuel contamination.
As these particles are removed by the filter, they cause loss off efficiency and the filter become blocked leading to a host of problems:
Erosive wear and increased nozzle hole size on injector tips
Leaking and dripping from the sealing parts at nozzle heads
Wear between barrel and piston; gums and resin in fuel will coat fuel injector lines, pumps and injectors, lessening their efficiency
Other problems directly relating to contaminated diesel are: leaking plungers and seals, premature ignition, and engine knock,
In the end this leads to failure of valves, turbochargers, pistons, rings and bearings.

Scary stuff to say the least
Regards
Arri

[Scorpion]

Easy answer... Buy a petrol!

[Arri]

I agree,

but it's still a sad reality and the diesel filter just cannot keep up with the local diesel under normal situation, and too add to this the new diesels are getting more and more complicated with
higher preasures on the injectors and smaller tollerances. So it's scary. A petrol is more tollerant of low quality fuel but not totally immune to contaminants.
But try selling that to a commited dieselhead, no way. I guess the best sollution will be to only use reputable filling stations but even that's no gaurantee because these things happen at depos and during transport and there is space from the diesel leaves the refinery untill it gets in your tank for a huge number of things to go wrong, when handle by unskilled parties. Then to make things worse some guys go and mix it with petrol and other types of oils and assitives for a profit and this can kill your engine especially when you loose the required amount of lubrication.
So maybe it's time we make and use our own bio diesel use sunflower oil or peanut oil and thandle it with the propper care.

Regards Arri

[Marius Murray]

Last week 5 (yes five!!!) 2.5 D4d Hiluxes from the same company came into our dealership with broken diesel pumps because of the company owner buying bargain diesel somewhere..........

Dieselpumps are lubricated by the dieselfuel self. So bad diesel does not lube and BOOM goes the pump.

Damages of R50 000 for the 5 dieselpumps. And it is not Toyotas fault. SO BEWARE OF CHEAP IMITATION DIESEL..........

[Rampie]

Well, if the diesel filter cant keep up, can you then chuck the filter and put a serious big filter in?

[ToyX4]

Andre, bet you're worried now? If not, check this thread: http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/sho ... post176961
Read it from the beginning.

[Arri]

Does size matter when it comes to a diesel filter? And will be make a real difference when you get those guys adding anny liquid to make their diesel cheaper.
The key to a diesel is proper maintenance, but remember when you have a new vehicle with a motorplan, you loose your guarantee if you do mods and use non standard parts, unless you're sneaky off-course, but still who has the time, And I have read in the enginering news that even regular filter checks does not always prevent damage to a modern vehicle using 3rd world diesel and that propper
diesel machanics are scarce these days as most emmigrate to Auz.
Some people make their own diesel in their backyards for personal use. With oil shooting to the sky I may become viable these days.

[Arri]

Do not believe all the marketing hype around new super diesels

You can read the report at this URL: http://www.abco.co.za/TECH_BULL_32_final.pdf
And the engineering news one: http://www.engineeringnews.co.za/article.php?a_id=46075

And now they are are reducing the sulphur content from Diesel like they have overseas which reduces lubricity and cost us more http://www.up.ac.za/academic/chemeng/ol ... deVaal.pdf

[Rampie]

Andre, bet you're worried now? If not, check this thread: http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/sho ... post176961
Read it from the beginning.

Not at all worried, I ONLY use lekka fresh kooperasie diesel.

[hilex08]

Do not believe all the marketing hype around new super diesels

You can read the report at this URL: http://www.abco.co.za/TECH_BULL_32_final.pdf
And the engineering news one: http://www.engineeringnews.co.za/article.php?a_id=46075

And now they are are reducing the sulphur content from Diesel like they have overseas which reduces lubricity and cost us more http://www.up.ac.za/academic/chemeng/ol ... deVaal.pdf

ok. i read the articles.

what i dont understand, is why dont the fuel componies come up with a solution and make, and produce world standard diesel. why do they still add parafin and other sh*t to our diesel, and we have to pay what we pay now for low class fuel, and then sit with cars which breakdown?

why dont we import clean fuel from other countries? i'll pay more for clean diesel if i know it is the correct fuel for my car.

i know the answer is to rather buy a petrol car, but is that then the ultimate solution?

if the motor in my ford packs up, i'll fit a petrol motor,(lexus) it will be cheaper.

eesh, maybe there is still things in life i dont understand

[Bfreesani]

I see that the new vehicles are being built to accommodate these "new" diesels. But some of us drive a Nissan that is still going to last us another 15 years. I don't see that the lubrication offered by the new diesels to be sufficient for our old engines.

I am already adding oil to my diesel along with some other "goodies" that seem to be having a positive effect on the wear of my injectors tips. Although we did not do a volume test, the spray pattern of 3 out of the 4 injectors was still perfect after 85000Km. I had budgeted to replace them, so did it anyway and kept the old ones for spare ( then 2 weeks later I drowned the engine with brand new injector tips).. My mechanic can't believe the condition of my injectors after such a long time, they were perfectly clean with no visible wear and tear.

Not sure where or by who, there is another discussion similar to this (could be on the community forum), one of the guys was telling me to rather add 2 stroke oil instead of normal motor oil to my diesel. They have shown a 3-5% better fuel consumption by doing this.

The problem I have is with the fuel price and the investigating of alternative fuels (for both petrol and diesel engines) Diesel engines are the most difficult. Any alternative fuel on a diesel has the problem of no lubrication. We can still run within limits and achieve our lubrication from the diesel and only enjoy a partial saving.

An example would be LPG. Fairly good improvement in fuel consumption and performance was excellent (20-40%) increase. but the LPG has major scrubbing quality, and the balance to keep lubrication from the diesel is a difficult one.

Just with my additives whereby I drop my Cetane level I was already worried about lubrication. Every mod you do that saves you diesel, effectively puts less diesel in the engine for the same distance traveled (sorry that was a blond way of putting it) but less diesel means less lubrication for the same distance traveled and the same engines revs and running hours.

I am now investigating another additional fuel that gives the petrol guys between a 20 - 60% fuel saving. On diesel we should be able to achieve around 10 - 30%. My big worry is that replacing 30% with non lubricating fuel could spell the end of your engine. On top of that with my new cooling system that replaces the inter cooler and is more effective and giving me another 20% power on top of all of this, the amount of diesel I am putting into my engine could become frightfully little.

just my 2c again

[Bushwacker]

my new cooling system that replaces the inter cooler and is more effective and giving me another 20% power on top of all of this

What cooling system is this David?

[Arri]

We do make wordlclass diesel and the clean ones that leves our refineriries are sabs tested, But you don't fill up at the refineries so their is a large space in that time for corruption due to neglegence or adding any substance to make an easy buck out of the re-sale afterall TIA
And diesel needs to behandled with some degree of knowlege and competency when it leave the refineries

[Bfreesani]

Looking at an overseas system that the guys have been bringing in mostly for racing and on petrol cars, but works just as great on diesel. It is a water and methanol injection system. Methanol is not a must, but does help.

It's advantages over an IC is that it does not add the volume of air of the IC to the intake system that the turbo also needs to compress. Turbo lag is slightly less!!. System does not suffer "heat soak" that an IC unit does at very low speed like when stuck in traffic. For those like me who have been playing with the idea of adding an IC to there vehicle, it is most certainly cost effective and much quicker than making up intake adapter pipes and cutting holes in bonnets.

Have a look here http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/sho ... ght=devils

I have just replaced my engine and hope to have it back on the road under normal driving conditions by Tuesday. I want to give this new Jap import engine time to settle into my driving style so that I can measure and note temperatures and boost levels before I continue my conversion. I also have long term plans to look at Hydrogen fuel, but want to do one thing at a time.

I have 2 EGT pickups and a boost sensor that will be monitoring my inlet and outlet temps to get a better idea of the effects on my EGT once operational. All I am doing is picking up where I left off after doing something similar with LP Gas. The results were great, and I figured out after ward that the power increase was due to the cooling and not the "fuel" I was injecting. Now I can do it legally and safely which was not possible with LP.

Sorry, I don't want to Hi Jack people threads, so I am going to shut up now

[ToyX4]

Sorry for the Hijack Arri.
Dawid, which methanol injection kit did you buy? I'm still undecided. Will you let us know after you've fitted it how the performance is.
Thanks

[Arri]

There are many aftermarket extra filter and kits available in SA, but we so much just for starters. And it's the new high performance diesels that suffer because they are so complicated.
And it's not so much the diesel we produce but the the way we handle the product we can import the best grade cleanest super diesel and then still mess it up by adding crap, leving the tank open and having rainwater pour into it, or just keeping to long so we can profit from a higher sales price (Diesel has a shelf life) And remember todays high presure performance turbo's are sensitive to corrupted diesel, unlike my oupas diesel merc that could run on varkvet.
South Africa has signed as per Int. standards to reduce the sulphur content of diesel because it's poisonous to the environment, but just like lead in petrol it act as an lubricant ans will have to be replace another chemical lubricant. And then you still get the guys diluting the diesel wit parafin which reduces the lubrication even further. Adding your own lubrication like the previous mail may not be a bad Idea at all. But look at it this way, we have to add our additives to diesel and instead of giving us a discount for all the trouble fix they raise the price.
We love diesels for range on cross country trips and torque but all that is no good when you standing next to the road with the engine warning lit up and waiting for your dealership to come out and fix it under gurantee, risking being robed and murdered or hit by buss, And this is if you are in town what about the bush?
And the marketing people from big motor corporations fail to use this in their adverts when promoting performance diesel vehicles.

[Bfreesani]

Riaan, I must speak to Ian at Rezlo again before I confirm my order, but I think he said it is this one here..

http://shop.rezlo.com/SA/index.php?act= ... ductId=908

Then for good measure I am installing http://shop.rezlo.com/SA/index.php?act= ... oductId=96 and http://shop.rezlo.com/SA/index.php?act= ... ductId=313

Running so much more efficiently on the outlet will affect my spoolup of my turbo, but just to enhance it a bit more, I am cutting the wastegate actuator supply to prevent it from opening as soon as the boost starts raising. By using the controller, I can keep the wastegate closed until my desired full boost is reached, which should be quicker now. Just as a safety, I am installing the blow off valve that is adjustable to give me total control.

The theory is that with the charge temp so much lower, you can increase the boost pressure safely. The controllers are there so that you can fine tune the system. Running such low tolerances will cause jumps in boost and temp as outside temp and humidity and air pressure changes. So a trip down to Cape Town will see you adjusting your boost controller slightly. The blow off valve should make life slightly easier though.

[flipw]

Hallo all out there.
About this dirty diesel damaging the D4D injectors. My 3l D4D went in with 72.000km on the clock. According Toyota the injector tips was damaged and that the reason for the smoking etc. According to them i need to replace the fuel filter now at every 20.00km and blead out the water with every full tank fillup. This diesel filter replacement is not mentioned in the normal service schedule and it is now to my cost. My concern is the that it seems to me that the injectors fitted to this D4D motors are not of a high quality. I am saying this because I am driving a Audi A4 1.9TDI s well and are filling both these cars at the same shop with diesel. The Audi now have 188.000k km on the clock with no injector problems at all, why does the Toyota give this problems at only 72.000 km on the clock. Is there any remedy to stop this problem from your view.
Flip :roll:

[DJ Otto]

Hi
Could I use this thread to ask two things, one linked to the previous question;
1) Apparently adding 2-stroke oil to your diesel helps lubricate injectors and diesel pump?
2) I have water in my diesel, pump the filter clean every time before starting. Do I have to have my diesel tank removed and cleaned like the last time and filter replaced or can keep pumping out bit by bit and just replce filter?

[Bfreesani]

Danie it depends on how much water is in there. I suppose you could not know. Do you know how it got there in the first place. The new diesel are more critical with problems like this and I would personally pull the tank knowing what the money value of the problem it could cause.

Just after I got my diesel, I filled up at a garage that pumped mud into my tank. The sand that I filtered out of the water trap was so course that it stripped the drain plug thread. I drove from there to the nearest spare shop and purchased 3 filters and new water trap. I just made it home on the 3 rd filter and ended up going through a total of 7 filters before I had clean diesel again. Till today I have not dropped the tank. But as you have read on this very thread, my donkey diesel is very forgiving as far as that goes. My filters only cost me R12 two years ago (R23 now) and my water trap is now looked after much better so that this wont happen again...

Strange this 2stroke thread was revived today here. I was this morning writing something on the community forum on this very subject when one of my workers came in and read what I wrote and asked me about it. We left the office and drove down to the garage while he was asking me more. I purchased a 250ml bottle and just added R100 diesel while the motor was running and told him to listen. While we were standing there you could hear the motor get quieter. As we drove off he noted that the turbo boost seemed to come up a little faster than before, the EGT was more constant and the the motor could rev higher without going into a flat spot that has plagued me since day one on the car. All that gets past this flat spot is 2 stroke and acetone mix in the diesel. I have not been doing this for a while due to budget constraints, but after today, I am going to get back into the ritual as the other threads both here in SA and Australia where we are discussing this, the guys are reporting great fuel savings and a smoother engine.

There is my 2cents

[DJ Otto]

Tx 4 info. Got water filtered and pumped out. Still run 2storke oil every now and then