Gas cylinder storage

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VW183
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Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:23 am

I just bought a 3kg gas cylinder after using bonsai cartridges for a long time. Being true followers of the open fire, the gas stove is basically used for a coffee and eggs in the morning. Therefore the limited capacity never was a real problem. Since the small cartridges are not always and everywhere available, moving to the standard gas cylinder appeared quite logical to me. Now I realized that I had not completely thought through all aspects of the issue:
Since I use a hardshell roof tent (Impi) on my Tuna, all the space on top is spent and the standard brackets as manufactured by frontrunner etc have to be ruled out. The second spare occupies the space on top of the rear bumper. Transportation inside the vehicle is not recommended. The big question is, where to put the gas cylinder while on the road? Does any of you guys have a solution for my peace of mind?

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Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:14 am

Ralf is it not a possibility to make a bracket that goes onto the spare wheel carrier?

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ChrisF
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Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:24 am

a few spare gas cartridges may well be the easiest solution .....

Will the 3kg (or even a slightly smaller unit) not fit inside the hard shell ?? This may be the best way to get the gas outside the vehicle while driving (though you will be storing the gas here at night when using the RTT)


Next would be making a bracket that fits to the roof bars, or to the spare wheel swing arm .... neither will be nice ...

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VW183
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Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:30 am

WayneSchalk wrote:Ralf is it not a possibility to make a bracket that goes onto the spare wheel carrier?
Wayne, I've thought about that. "Inside" the rim there is not enough space and on the outside you obviously expose the cylinder to impact in case of an accident.

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VW183
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Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:47 am

ChrisF wrote:a few spare gas cartridges may well be the easiest solution .....

Will the 3kg (or even a slightly smaller unit) not fit inside the hard shell ?? This may be the best way to get the gas outside the vehicle while driving (though you will be storing the gas here at night when using the RTT)


Next would be making a bracket that fits to the roof bars, or to the spare wheel swing arm .... neither will be nice ...
Thanks for the input, Chris, maybe the smaller (1.7kg ?) cylinder could be squeezed into the hardshell, no way with the 3kg. To just pack more of the small 250g cartridges is probably also not advisable - you end up with a similar volume of liquid gas but in much weaker containers. There is definitely some charme in the idea of a (custom) bracket on the roof rack (I have a frontrunner rack mounted) but you will be limited to the sides (on the back you need the space to swing open the rear hatch) but still the Impi sticks out approx 8 cm on each side. It could work from the mechanical point of view, but you will have the cylinder sticking out about 25cm sideways over the vehicle clearance.

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Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:59 am

Maybe a photo of your roof rack, and how the hard shell sits on it ....


IF you have a SOLID edge of the roof rack available it should be easy enough to make a custom bracket - may very well find one in the Frontrunner cataloque ...

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VW183
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Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:15 pm

ChrisF wrote:Maybe a photo of your roof rack, and how the hard shell sits on it ....


IF you have a SOLID edge of the roof rack available it should be easy enough to make a custom bracket - may very well find one in the Frontrunner cataloque ...
here are 2 pics illustrating the situation:
_1100864.jpeg
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DSC_0016.jpeg

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Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:54 pm

uhmmm jaaaa ....

three options :
- sides .... not a real option, as this would make the vehicle wider and just be a target waiting to be hit ...

- front .... certainly would be the only gas canister mounted over the windscreen .... so not a real option

- that leaves only the back of the vehicle .... open the back door and see what space is left to mount the gas bottle ... guessing the bottle would end up being the highest point of the vehicle, NOT an option.



So by process of elimination :
- IN the hard shell, maybe ...
- mounted to the side of the roof rack .... unlikely
- mounted to the spare wheel .... possibly the best option. Just need to figure out a theft proof removable bracket, that keeps the gas bottle above the bumper line of other vehicles ....
- easier bracket may be a clip-on to the towbar system, but this will always be low and in the impact line ...
- would it be possible to move the hard shell forward, to create space behind it for the gas bottle ?? (that would mean you would have to access the hard shell from the side)

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VW183
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Wed Oct 21, 2015 2:23 pm

Thanks for all the brains! I believe I will follow the "bracket on the spare" idea. Moving the shell forward would end in 30cm + (don't forget the space for the rear door to open). I will post when I have a presentable solution.

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Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:20 pm

Ralf take off the spare wheel and have a close look at the sparewheel mounting - often possible to change out the studds that hold the spare in place.

Replace 1 or 2 with longer studds - the bottle bracket could then be tightened onto this. Some rubber on the bracket should protect the rim, maybe best to construct it such that it presses onto the tire.

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Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:15 pm

Chris, my studs are welded to the carrier, but I believe there will be a proper way to get the bottle holder fixed to it - even without rocket technology.

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Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:48 pm

VW183 wrote:Chris, my studs are welded to the carrier, but I believe there will be a proper way to get the bottle holder fixed to it - even without rocket technology.

but you ARE strapping a rocket to the back of your wagon .... :tease: :twisted:

coyote_rocket_by_mreiof-d5va4sl.jpg

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Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:30 pm

...got a light for me?.:-))

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Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:44 am

You have a problem with space Ralf and not easily solved...
What I would do, has already been lobbied around here and discarded, but I do not think that you have any other safer chioces...
The area is between the front of the awning and the roof rack. Make a bracket that fits there and PM First Geer (Tony) for a method to lock the gas bottle on, using wheel lock nuts, thus taking out the problem of illegal shopping (Theft). You buy one set and the extra's can be used to lock your spare wheel into pla and anything else that is mounted to the outside of the vehicle.
Having it od the sides with the roof rack already wider than the vehicle makes it dangerous to passing traffic.
Having the gas bottle at the back, lower down, makes it dangerous & more succesible to rear impact accidents.
Having it in front only makes it dangerous for roll over accidents (not as common) and it can be removed when you are not using the vehicle for overlanding.
This will also negatively effect the streamlined shape of your vehicle (wind resistance), but for overlanding with lower speeds, especially off road, this will virtually have no impact what-so-ever.
Hope you find an amicable solution to your problem.
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Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:13 am

VW183 wrote:Transportation inside the vehicle is not recommended.
Why is it not recommended to transport the gas bottle inside the vehicle? Todays gas bottles comply to strict safety regulations. If it is closed and securely secured what would the problem be? If the vehicle is involved in an accident the bottle is not going to explode unless exposed to extreme heat.

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VW183
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Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:28 am

Whisky wrote:
VW183 wrote:Transportation inside the vehicle is not recommended.
Why is it not recommended to transport the gas bottle inside the vehicle? Todays gas bottles comply to strict safety regulations. If it is closed and securely secured what would the problem be? If the vehicle is involved in an accident the bottle is not going to explode unless exposed to extreme heat.

Hi Whisky, I am not at all a gas expert. That is probably why I find the stuff somewhat scary. All "official" websites state clearly that transportation of gas cylinders in a closed vehicle is illegal. If that is not enough, when you travel with a wife with a glowing cigarette you will probably start thinking of gas leakages.
They also warn you not to leave a gas cylinder in a hot vehicle in the sun.

If someone can convince me that there is nothing to worry about - problem solved!

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Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:51 am

I've seen okes fit high lift jacks next to the spare wheel on the bracket. Depending on the room you have you could follow suit. I agree that the spare wheel bracket is probably the most feasible idea.

Maybe a pic of the spare wheel swing arm could help...looks like there is room on the bumper right or possibly on the swing arm on the hinge side

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Thu Oct 22, 2015 12:54 pm

I would really consider the bottle mounted above the spare wheel.Design a removable bracket which you can attach above the spare wheel when needed and then it can be removed and stored when not needed.I have gone this route but my bracket is permanently attached with the gas bottle in place.Pm me your cell no so I can send you some photos of my set-up and method of locking the bottle on.A few photos of of your spare wheel set up from diff angles will assist one with designing a bracket.
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Thu Oct 22, 2015 1:48 pm

"Why is it not recommended to transport the gas bottle inside the vehicle? Todays gas bottles comply to strict safety regulations. If it is closed and securely secured what would the problem be? If the vehicle is involved in an accident the bottle is not going to explode unless exposed to extreme heat".

I have been told somewhere or I read that Regulations in the European Union & America will not allow gas to be transported in an inclosed area, because of the very real dangers of leaks. Also the heat build-up inside a vehicle can very quickly escalate to over 50*C. This is also half way to boiling water right, so not very hot?
Ai-Ais hot water spring is about 55*C and that water is too hot to wash your hands in.
A gas bottle is like a bomb with a good layer of schrapnel and a real danger. Anyone who has experienced a gas explosion will know what I am talking about. Many people have succumbed to gas explosions, hence the heavy regulations in First World Countries. These will surely spill over to our shores sooner than later, so be prepared.

First Geer (Tony) wrote:
"I would really consider the bottle mounted above the spare wheel."

This is a good point and can be extended up, from the swing-arm and fitted above the spare wheel, as it will swing out with the spare wheel when the boot of the Fortuner is opened.
My small brain was under the impression that it would have to swing up as though the spare wheel was mounted on the back door (like my camper), which is obviously not the case.
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VW183
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Thu Oct 22, 2015 2:59 pm

Haboob wrote:"Why is it not recommended to transport the gas bottle inside the vehicle? Todays gas bottles comply to strict safety regulations. If it is closed and securely secured what would the problem be? If the vehicle is involved in an accident the bottle is not going to explode unless exposed to extreme heat".

I have been told somewhere or I read that Regulations in the European Union & America will not allow gas to be transported in an inclosed area, because of the very real dangers of leaks. Also the heat build-up inside a vehicle can very quickly escalate to over 50*C. This is also half way to boiling water right, so not very hot?
Ai-Ais hot water spring is about 55*C and that water is too hot to wash your hands in.
A gas bottle is like a bomb with a good layer of schrapnel and a real danger. Anyone who has experienced a gas explosion will know what I am talking about. Many people have succumbed to gas explosions, hence the heavy regulations in First World Countries. These will surely spill over to our shores sooner than later, so be prepared.

First Geer (Tony) wrote:
"I would really consider the bottle mounted above the spare wheel."

This is a good point and can be extended up, from the swing-arm and fitted above the spare wheel, as it will swing out with the spare wheel when the boot of the Fortuner is opened.
My small brain was under the impression that it would have to swing up as though the spare wheel was mounted on the back door (like my camper), which is obviously not the case.

Haboob, I decided to follow that road, as indicated by Firstgeer. I still will have to move the bracket more to the left, since the center part is already taken by (another) bracket holding my Maxtrax (see picture I posted in this thread yesterday.
:thumbup:

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Fri Oct 23, 2015 11:52 am

Nice Ralph, good looking vehicle you have there...
You need to give us some advice on nice places to see that you know of in your country...
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VW183
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Fri Oct 23, 2015 12:02 pm

...will happily do so! Please allow me some time - I am pretty much tied up the next couple of weeks.
In the meantime have a look at my OTHER car. https://www.flickr.com/photos/rtk-pictu ... 2922443235
Stay tuned!

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Fri Oct 23, 2015 5:17 pm

Whisky wrote:
VW183 wrote:Transportation inside the vehicle is not recommended.
Why is it not recommended to transport the gas bottle inside the vehicle?

Very dangerous from a safety perspective. I had a friend who was returning from Tarlton, brand new tyres on his Jetta. He had a blow-out, lost control of the car, slammed into a stationary car parked on the island between the two lanes of the dual highway and the gas bottle in the rear of the car broke his skull when it came flying forward after the impact.

For this reason, I would not want any loose heavy object inside any vehicle.


-F_D
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VW183
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Sat Oct 24, 2015 4:08 pm

Family_Dog wrote:
Whisky wrote:
VW183 wrote:Transportation inside the vehicle is not recommended.
Why is it not recommended to transport the gas bottle inside the vehicle?

Very dangerous from a safety perspective. I had a friend who was returning from Tarlton, brand new tyres on his Jetta. He had a blow-out, lost control of the car, slammed into a stationary car parked on the island between the two lanes of the dual highway and the gas bottle in the rear of the car broke his skull when it came flying forward after the impact.

For this reason, I would not want any loose heavy object inside any vehicle.


-F_D


Searching the web for a solution I came over these pics. Recommended to all non-believers in the community:
http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread.ph ... as-bottles

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