4Y EFI Conversion - Chapter 2

Discuss modifications on your 1979 to late 1998 SFA 4x4 Hilux here.
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Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:09 am

sound good like things coming together :!: great to know where to go if we have to do something similar. :D

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Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:49 pm

Success!!

The Khaki (Edit by F_D: NOT Khaki, but 4E9!!) Bull is running!! We struggled a bit but managed to get the spook sorted today. On Monday evening late we finished wiring but when we cranked her we realised the system was not firing the injectors. But because it was late we decided to call it a day. Eric was suspecting the injectors but I was not convinced. Then while sleeping on it I suspected the EFI was not reading the signal from the dizzy.

So the first thing yesterday we checked the GUI and saw the RPM indication not showing any thing when the engine cranked. I phoned my neighbour and he confirmed that if the yellow LED was pulsing it meant the system was reading a signal from the pickup, which ours was not, so we knew the problem was there. We measured the input terminal on the ECU with an oscilloscope and saw a nice 12v deflection on it.

We decided to rather not struggle any further and wait until today to phone Chris from Dicktator for advice. He then sugested that we should scratch that input wire on a ground terminal somewhere and see if it was pulsing. Previously if we primed the engine a few times the pre-start prime cycle triggered the injectors with enough fuel to get thge engine to just start and run for about a second. Now by manually pulsing it we could get it to run for about 4 seconds which confirmed our suspicion that the fuel side was OK and only the reference signal was not working. Then when taking a quick break I started thinking to myself. What if the Tacho output on the integrated dizzy was not connected from the coil negative but rather from the Igniter providing a positive pulse. We only checked for pulses on the scope but not their polarity. We then opened the Dizzy and connected a wire to the negative pole on the coil, and voilà, the LED on the ECU started pulsing when we cranked her. Then after installing a proper wire and closing the dizzy we cranked her again and she fired up.

A quick drive out on a road leading out of Klerkies, it took us about 10kms of road tuning to get her to go up to 135 km/h on the GPS. The idling and low closed throttle maps is still a bit rough but she should be drivable to Pretoria for a proper Dyno, but Family_Bull_Dog already says she feels better then before. 8) 8) 8)

DOELLOOS

Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:54 pm

Hoe trots is ek nou op julle...

Regte Blou Bulle...

:mrgreen:
:mrgreen:
:mrgreen:
:mrgreen:
:mrgreen:
:mrgreen:

WELL DONE

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Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:56 pm

Gents nicely done.Congrats :!: :D

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Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:30 pm

Wow That is really cool guys I am keen to find out how she goes and the fuel consumption after she has been properly tuned :mrgreen:
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Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:48 pm

Consumption at this point in time is probably horrific, but this is the best 4Y-powered motor I have ever been in!!! A very slight misfire at lowish revs somewhere, but overall there is a tremendous difference in the feel of the vehicle and certainly the acceleration has improved. Previously, it took me some pushing to reach 110Km/Hr TRUE speed, but now it exceeds that speed with ease. While I was driving along the open road, Bennie was tweaking the computer settings with a laptop.

The BenHurBul EFI conversion is a resounding success, and I take back all expressions of dismay, shock & horror that were evident upon my face when Bennie so swiftly carved the dashboard, wiring loom and whatever else during the process of fitting the EFI.

Is the conversion worth it? I would say most definitely yes! Although the vehicle is not yet dyno-tuned, it feels good. Not being very mechanically minded myself, I wondered why the job could not be done in a day. All the installers require about three days to do so, and now I understand the reason why. And I would bet my very last dollar that no other Installer would do the job with quite as much dedication as Bennie put into it. There are more pics to post, but not right now, I am one tired dog, and I am sure Bennie is one tired Bull right now. It has been hard work, but a glorious success!


-F_B_D!!
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White Fang: 1999 2.7i DC Raider 4x4
Bull Dog: 1987 4Y-EFI 2.2 DC 4x4
Pra Dog: 1998 Prado VX 3.4
Hound Dog: 2000 2.7i SC 4x4


One Staffie, One Jack Russell, One Ring Neck Screecher, 17 Fish of questionable heritage


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Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:14 pm

Some more photos of the conversion...
4Y EFI Conversion 117.jpg
Home-made bracket from perforated metal strip for mounting of fuel filter
Hi-Pressure Fuel filter now mounted with two clamps onto bracket
4Y EFI Conversion 122.jpg
Hi-Pressure Fuel Filter, Hi-Pressure Pump, Low Pressure filter & hosing
4Y EFI Conversion 125.jpg
Bennie punched a hole through the regular Donaldson Air-Filter hose and fitted a pipe for the Idle Control Valve
4Y EFI Conversion 129.jpg
The standard pulse which drives the tacho is a postive pulse. Our ECM system requires a negative swing. Bennie added the green wire shown here to the Coil Negative. Note the routing of same to keep clear of the rotor assembly.
4Y EFI Conversion 141.jpg
Another view
4Y EFI Conversion 145.jpg
The completed conversion!
4Y EFI Conversion 146.jpg
Note the ugly Bling Cone Filter. That was to be a temporary arrangement until the Hilux reached Pretoria. However, it made such an unholy noise, we found a local Filter shop that had re-opened after the New Year, and managed to get the correct size piping for converting the 70mm Donaldson Hose to the 60mm opening on the chamber and then threw it out.

Bennie will provide more details on the pictures in due course.

-F_D
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White Fang: 1999 2.7i DC Raider 4x4
Bull Dog: 1987 4Y-EFI 2.2 DC 4x4
Pra Dog: 1998 Prado VX 3.4
Hound Dog: 2000 2.7i SC 4x4


One Staffie, One Jack Russell, One Ring Neck Screecher, 17 Fish of questionable heritage


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DOELLOOS

Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:23 pm

Hey FBD,

I just popped into Bennie's place, and there it was, your Hilux. :mrgreen:

Man oh man, does she look good with those new Blue Bull stickers Bennie and I fitted all over her now. You will be proud when you see her again. :shock:

Paybacks a bi**h...
:mrgreen:

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Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:43 pm

Hi Ewald,

Well, I hope that Bennie at least showed you the two radios, the Cheetahs & Sharks ones. Sadly, the Blue Bulls one broke down before we even used it.... :mrgreen:

Was actually a faulty unit that came in for repair, our Stores Lady packed it with the new ones instead of the repair rack... :oops:


-F_D
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White Fang: 1999 2.7i DC Raider 4x4
Bull Dog: 1987 4Y-EFI 2.2 DC 4x4
Pra Dog: 1998 Prado VX 3.4
Hound Dog: 2000 2.7i SC 4x4


One Staffie, One Jack Russell, One Ring Neck Screecher, 17 Fish of questionable heritage


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Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:47 pm

:cry: :cry: :cry: Eric sabotaged my bulls radio so I was forced to take a Cheetah and Sharks pair. :cry: :cry:

I wonder if I take the front covers off and spray them blue bulls blue

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Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:57 pm

Yes driving her back to Pretoria was quite enjoyable. After tuning it for the lekker power that Eric described yesterday we realised she was slukking fuel erg. SO we took her for a spin this morning and detuned her a bit to get the economy up. Leaving Klerkies I could feel that she was slightly down on power from yesterday but she was still drivable, but then on the other side of Potch going uphill she was struggling a bit. I then rigged up the laptop while driving, I dumped yesterday's MAP I saved and intermediately I could feel the difference. I the turned down the injector firing time again until I found the sweet spot. I kept her like that all the way to PTA and I must say she was doing excellent, and the consumption seems OK too. If my 22R performed like that I may not have been considering the 7MGE conversion :? :?

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Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:00 pm

The Hilux is currently with Bennie in Pretoria for fine adjustments prior to going to the Dyno. Bennie has since made a few changes, i.r.o. of re-siting the Idle Control Valve, because the original 20mm Air Hose we used had a tendency to collapse with the vacuum from the Plenum Chamber. A strong hose that does not collapse is available, but at R200/m, this was not an option.
new bracket.jpg
The new bracket Bennie made for mounting the ICV closer to the Plenum chamber
bracket fitted.jpg
Bracket fitted in place...
icv moved.jpg
ICV fitted to new Bracket. Notice the now very much shorter piece of black 20mm hose from the ICV to the Plenum Chamber

-F_D
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White Fang: 1999 2.7i DC Raider 4x4
Bull Dog: 1987 4Y-EFI 2.2 DC 4x4
Pra Dog: 1998 Prado VX 3.4
Hound Dog: 2000 2.7i SC 4x4


One Staffie, One Jack Russell, One Ring Neck Screecher, 17 Fish of questionable heritage


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Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:59 am

The problem we had is that 20mm ID water hose gets sucked completely flat between the Idle Control Valve and the plenum chamber if the ICV was closed. Therefore, by fitting the ICV directly onto the plenum chamber's input that problem was overcome. The portion running back to the air intake hose between the throttle body and the air cleaner has no restriction on its intake opening causing it to "suck" close, so it does not matter if the wall of that pipe is not reinforced to handle high negative pressure (vacuum)

That is what I enjoy about modifications. Getting everything to works nicely and hopefully ever better that normal. I tested this ICV yesterday. Remember the ECU map has not been optimised yet so the torque and power is not at its optimum level yet, but I shifted her into Low 1st (and reverse) and then let go of the clutch. I can apply brakes and bring the RPM right down to about 500-550 RPM and she still pulls as the ICV tries to get the RPM back up to the target idle value of 850 RPM I set it at in the ECU.

Now imagine having the engine optimised to its full performance potential and taking her on a trail crawling. Ag nee wat Wade any advantage a N/A Diesel had in low down torque as you tried illustrating to me at RDW is now matched or it might even be better. :wink: :wink: If I was not convinced in getting rid of my Mr Turbo in favour of a Dicktator yet I now am.


Ewald come to my place and check this out. If you add an ICV to your set-up and get that waste gate override, your SupraLux would be a dream off road. So then you can keep it, and get rid of the "smelly" Patrol.

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Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:35 pm

Hi All,

I've just played catch-up! You guys are awesome. This is the best article I have ever read on 4Y EFI conv. I have change my strategy after reading... I am now studying the fine art of cloning, I believe it would be better to clone Bennie and post the clone to Cape Town, feed the clone beer and whiskey(Johnny Walker Blue or GlenFiddich 18 Yr Old, clone's preference) to keep it going and then get the Bennie-clone to do all the 4Y EFI conversion in Cape Town. Can you send me a blood sample Bennie, no alcohol in bloodstream :lol:

Ok I've got to try do this, just for clarity, did you use the OE Toy electronic dizzy or did you go the Hall pickup route?

FBD, congrats on the successful open heart surgery, hope the pacemaker works wonders...
Bennie, put the whiskey down, I need the blood sample asap, Dollie meet Bennie :lol:

Ok, ok Bennie are you coming to CT any time soon, Mango flight R 199.00... :lol:

Bretton (very jealous...)

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Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:48 am

Bretton

At this stage the timing is still manual (Dicktator only reads the timing pulses as reference for engine speed) but the advance and retard is still done manually. There is a small mod that is done to Dictator to have it read Coil Negative pulses so we are picking up our reference signal from the wire that we pulled in and connected to the Coil Neg.

However, after speaking to a few okes that know, I am now convinced that it would be more beneficial to get the Dictator to do timing as well in order so that the ECU can advance and retard the timing electronically rather than the manual vacuum advance we are using now. But no we are not converting to a hall pick-up.

I will be investigating this option during this week but I start working again today so time might be a bit tight.

BTW, I do not drink whiskey - yak :twisted: :twisted:






.

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Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:51 am

snipes wrote:
Ok, ok Bennie are you coming to CT any time soon, Mango flight R 199.00... :lol:

Bretton (very jealous...)
We can always make a plan :wink: Let us just get this one finished satisfactory first, before we start the next one.

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Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:37 am

Ok beer then, lots of beer...

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Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:41 pm

I found time this afternoon to dash through to Benoni to Dicktator's offices. I bought an igniter from them so that we can integrate the dizzy into the system so that the Dicktator can also control the timing.

I can do this in two ways.

1. Remove the existing igniter out of the system altogether and use a magnetic pick-up converter (supplied with the Dicktator unit) to convert the sine wave type signal from the magnetic pick-up to a square wave signal that the Dicktator need on its input. Then I will also have to get the coil negative mod that they made to the ECU reversed. Then the new TP 100 type igniter I bought will be used to drive the coil negative.

2. Use the coil negative output (square wave) from the existing igniter to pulse the Dicktator and use the new TP100 igniter to drive the coil negative. In this option the existing igniter will perform the function of the magnetic converter and we can also keep the Tacho on this igniter.

I saw they advertised the igniter for R 650 on the Dicktator website but when i got there Chris informed me that R 650 is for the multi channel ignitor as used in wasted spark systems and that a single channel one actually costs R 450 :D :D

Here is the updated Diagram of how I plan to do the electrical connection.

Image

Doing the wiring is the quick and easy part but since the dizzy must not advance the timing mechanically I have to lock it in place which will require me to remove the dizzy strip it and lock it down. :(
Attachments
Dicktator Wiring Diagram.jpg

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Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:02 am

Hi Bennie,

My EFI journey got off to a great start yesterday, I visited Alan from AEV, he gave me an EFI intake manifold, with all the bits, and full throttle body, as well as the steel fuel line and high pressure filter that stands in place of the original fuel pump, all is excellent condition, no need to thread new nipples or anything like that. And I paid next to nothing!

I asked him about the Hall pickup dizzi, he said they buy a broken/old 4Y point/condenser dizzi, then the buy a Golf hall pick-up dizzi. They attach the 4Y dizzi shaft and base(thread 4 holes) to the Golf dizzi(drill 4 holes) and then you have a fix position Hall pickup dizzi that fits the 4Y perfect and can be controlled by the Dicktator. A new golf dizzi is also pretty cheap, about R250.00.

Bretton

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Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:20 am

Bretton

My option is R 450 (or whatever the igniter costs you only. You do not have to modify or change anything to the dizzy except to lock it so it does not move via the centrifugal weights or vacuum advance. The existing magnetic pick-up and igniter is there already so why not use it? Let me just finish it this week I will take pictures and then see. My 7MGE was also converted to a hall pick up for the Mr turbo, but it would not have been nessasary for if I used a Dicktator. These after market hall pick-up conversions sometimes do give problems as well so I am looking at the most reliable option, the more unnecessary mods the more difficult to maintain.

Call me to discuss if you are unsure about what I mean, my number is in the members only section :wink:

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Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:39 am

Ok Bennie,

Alan also eluded to the possible problems with the hall pickup dizzi, but did not give specifics. He gave me a TP100 igniter and said I could use my elec. dizzi with a TP500 to do the sine to square wave form conversion for the Dicktator.

I take it this what you are going to do. I though the EFI intake/throttle body would have far less vacuum pipes, but alas they are still there in numbers, hopefully with the Dicktator controlling timing I can blank these off.

Bretton

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Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:20 pm

Well you do not need a TP500 if your van already has the integrated dizzy. All you do is use the origional toy igniter inside the Dizzy to do this sine to square wave conversion and have the Dicktator's input changed to accept negative pulses (the Coil Negative conversion on the latest Dicktator boxes is a simple solder link on the PC bord. So you do not have to buy anything else. I did Eric's dizzy this evening after work in under and hour. I now only need to wire in the TP100 igniter and then the timing integration is done. I have taken pictures as well, will do the write up later. :wink:

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Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:44 pm

Ok Bennie,

I'll wait for your results, it would be a real waste to ditch the electronic dizzi, and I would have to buy new ignition leads then as well.

I hope you can post some detailed pics, i'd hate to get it wrong, I'm technically and mechanically minded, but the world of EFI and EMS is new to me. When locking off the dizzi, does it get locked in a specific position, how do you reinstall it, what position(deg)? I have to TP100, a small bonus. Did you work off a manual/diagram for the intake manifold/throttle body to figure out what goes where?

Please tell me if I asking to many questions...

Bretton

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Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:47 pm

Oh one last thing, wouldn't it be advisable a make/install a protective cover for the high pressure pump/filters to keep it out of harms way? Stones and mud etc.

Bretton

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Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:07 am

It would not do any harm, but I doubt if it is necessary, I have been running my setup like that for a while already and no problems yet. Of all the bakkies I have checked out so far when test driving etc , I have never seen anyone with damage in that area :? :?

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Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:11 am

awesome conversion Eric and Bennie. i look forward to the day when i can afford to do the same. will have to wait, new motor went in today :mrgreen:

what did the job cost in the end?

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Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:49 pm

Toybox wrote:
what did the job cost in the end?
We wil have to wait for the auditors to check the figures first. :shock: :shock: I will do a cost breakdown when we are finito. :wink:


Progress update:

Bulldog started with the timing integrated into the Dicktator tonight. It is running a bit rough now because I did not adjust the position of the dizzy so that the timing readout on the timing light correspond with the timing reading of the ECU.

The procedure to do this is as follows. You connect the timing light to the engine as normal. Then you open the ECU's GUI and set all the timing settings to 10 degrees before TDC so that it does not matter how the engine speed and vacuum change while you are adjusting the dizzy the ECU will stay on 10 deg. Once the ECU is "locked: like that you take the timing light and adjust the dizzy to so that the actual timing sits at 10 deg. Then you lock the dizzy in that position and it never moves from there again as all timimg adjustments is now done using the ECU's GUI.

I also moved the Air Intake Temperature sensor into the air pipe just before it goes into the throttle body. (As per Chris from Dictator's advice).

One or two little things I must still wrap up and then she will be ready for her big Dyno 8) 8)

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Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:42 pm

The dizzy modification I did yesterday was fairly simple and took less then an hour to perform.

The first photo shows the springs in the normal position with the mechanical advance it the fully retarded position. (Weights fully retracted)

Image


To prevent the mechanical advance from interfering with the ECU trying controlling the timing the mechanical advance is locked in the fully advanced position. This is easy to do, all all you do is remove the springs and refit them in the alternate positions that they were in, so that they pull the shaft into the fully advanced position. (Weights fully extended)

Image


Note the position of the stop pin indicated by the arrows in the 2 pictures.

This is the baseplate that house the magnetic pick up sensor.

Image

This is the original Toyota igniter which will now act as the magnetic converter and it will also still drive the tacho meter.

Image
Image

The yellow wire is the igniter's output that is normally connected to the coil negative. I re-soldered the green wire onto it which will now be connected back to the trigger input on the ECU (pin 1).

Image
Image

The igniter reinstalled in place.

Image

The coil

Image

The blue wire from the coil negative will be connected to the output of the external TP100 igniter (pin 1)

Image
Image

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Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:57 pm

Hey Bennie, thanks,

What did you say you do for a living? Auto electrician? Some people just seem to know exactly what to do, and other don't(me). I phoned a second hand Toyota spares dealer today, asked if they have a thermistor/Toy air temp sensor, the rep said 'A what?'. He asked me to bring a pic, I don't have a printer at home, so I have to take the whole laptop with :)

All I need to do is get the other bits and I'm going to get started... as soon as I have finished pulling the motor to change the rear main seal... :cry:

Bretton

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Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:26 pm

This is the external Dicktator Igniter (single channel TP 100) housed within its own heat sink.

Image

Note it has only 3 wires connected as it does not connect to the magnetic pick up in the dizzy. Pin 1 is connected to the coil negative, Pin 2 is an earh wire connected to a earthing point on the the head and pin 6 connects to the yellow/black from the ECU (Ignition 1 - Pin 6)

Image

I mounted the Igniter as high as possible in the engine bay to prevent water interference.

The new position of the IAT sensor on the side of the rubber air hose going to the throttle body.

Image

I used a hole punch to make a hole on the rubber and the portion that was cut out in the centre fitted securely into the grommet where the IAT was situated before in the air cleaner's lid.

I was unsure about the resistance vs temperature settings of the IAT so first filled the pot with ice water to get the reading to 0 deg Celsius and took a measurement. I then added heat and measured all the values up to 90 degrees (the water temp did not want to go pass 93 degrees as it is the water's boiling point here in PTA)

Image

My 4yr old could not understand what I was doing so after telling him this was dinner :twisted: :twisted: he told me he was not hungry tonight. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:39 pm

Hey Bennie,

It great having a 4 yr old, my son Joel is also 4. It's always fun in the garage, him being so curious and wanting to help, my tool kit has a 1/2 inch socket set and a mini socket set, when I'm using the 1/2 inch, his not far behind with his selection of mini sockets, adds to the fun, and frustration when I can't find 'missing' a socket I need :)

The TP100 igniter I have is not as fancy as the one you got from Dicktator, it's mount on a largish aluminium heat sink/mount. I may opt to buy a new Dicktator one.

Bretton

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Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:53 pm

Bennie,

Quite a major change from what we originally had! I see what you meant when you mentioned the green wire insulation had deformed a little through heat (refer the first picture). I am wondering if we should not use silicon wire (as used in stoves) in place of the standard plastic green wire we used?

Regarding final costs, we did not take any short cuts. The way Benny has done the conversion is, in my opinion, probably a lot more professional than a Workshop would do it, because to them, time is money. The fine little jobs take time, such as neatening the wires, wrapping them in Spiral cabling and taping the whole lot up. I should imagine a garage would find it more convenient (and certainly quicker) to simply affix the cabling to existing cables with cable ties. Then also, we elected to go for the better Dicktator unit, although other EMS units are available at lower cost but they lack the versatility of the Dicktator that we used.

The Igniter unit that Bennie has now installed is also probably not really necessary, but advisable in the long run, because we now have none of the effects from Distributor wear & tear - all the settings are now done electronically.

Looking good, Bennie! :D


-F_D
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Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:38 pm

Eric I do not think Silicon wire would be necessary, That wire was touching the heat sink of the igniter which gets plenty hot :shock: :shock:. I think the problem came in when we originally did not remove the dizzy to add the wires in so we could not properly see what we were doing the silly routing over the heat sink). I am just glad we saw it in time otherwise we would have scratched our heads if the thing suddenly started misfiring (signal wire shorting).

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Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:21 am

Hi guys, update...

I did the scrap yard run this morning, got the thermistor and idle control valve for R200. The guys tested a few ICV's until we found one in very good condition, but it's got a minor crack where the wire plug connects to it, which will be an easy repair.
I was more concerned that it operated 100%. I also got a new HP pump and filter, as well as the inline fuel filter.

As soon as Bennie says the Dicktator controlled timing works properly I will purchase the correctly configured Dicktator.

And then the work will begin!

Bretton

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Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:55 pm

Ja I am not very happy with the way its running now, I will keep you posted on what my investigation yields. :? :?

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Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:39 pm

Ek het 3 computerbokse vir 4Y by 'n vriend gekry. Dit is die oorspronklike Toyota 4Y boks. Hy sal ook die injectors, manifold en alle senders gee. :lol: :lol: Nou soek ek hulp en raad hoe om dit in te sit.
Kan enige iemand my dalk se watter draad gaan na watter senders? Hier is 'n foto van een so boks.

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Hier is die kodes,. Kan iermand se waarvoor staan dit, asseblief?
+B SPD E21 THW PSW OX E2 AC TSW FPU E1 IGT #2O EO2
+B1 BATT THA VS VC NE IGF IDL T W ACV NSW VF STA #10 EO1

Ek sien daar is nie 'n plug of iets om laptop in te plug om die rekenaar reg te stel nie.Sover ek weet is die rekenaar reggestel, maar hoe gemaak as ek 'n probleem optel? :oops:

Dankie

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Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:50 pm

Andries,

Hoor bietjie by hom of hy nie die oorspronklike wiring harness het vir die computer box. Dit behoort dit baie makliker te maak. Jy kan ook kyk in die thread "Workshop Manuals", miskien sien jy iets daar om vir jou te help.

Daardie Toyota box is seker nie so ontwikkeld soos vandag s'n nie, ek sal dink 'n ou het baie meer beheer oor die features van, bvb., a Dicktator as jy het met 'n computer box wat meer as twintig jaar oud is.


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Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:07 pm

Erik

Eintlik net die omgekeerde is waar, daai origional computer boxe het baaaaaie meer drade na "onnodige goed soos Oxygen Sensors, Speed Sensors, Mass Air Flow Sensors ens. en werk ook net behoorlik saam met al die komplekse mechanical idle up vacuum pype.

Andries, spaar jouself eerder baie beslommernis en kry eerder 'n Dicktator. Om die EFI te integreer is heel maklik. Ek en Eric wil dit net een stap verder vat en sy ignition timing ook elektronies beheer (in plaas van meganies met die gewiggies en vakuum), maar dis nie regtig nodig nie. Ons sukkel huidiglik met die magnetic adapter wat nie 'n mooi reference sein uitgee nie maar Chris van Dicktator het gesê ek moet die Dizzy inbring dat hulle hom op hulle bench kan toets en opstel. As dit nie reg werk nie los ons die timing dan maar meganies, en julle ouens daar in die gramadoelas moet dit dalk ook sterk oorweeg as 'n opsie as jou dizzy een van die geintegreerde electroniese dizzys is (coil in dizzy).

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Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:41 am

Hi Bennie,

Any news on FD's EFI conversion, it's been quiet lately... I did the real main seal and the gearbox seal this weekend . So hopefully that is sorted...

Bretton

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Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:00 pm

Hi Bennie,

Sorry, let me try rephrase what I wanted to say:

The older O.E.M. computer box employs older computer technology (computing was not so sterk in the mid 80's) and therefore has less 'useful' computing power. In fact, I am sure it had no computing power at all, other than a couple of Eproms doing a fixed job, according to the input fed to it/them by the various sensors. Some of the old EMS's actually just used a form of diode logic, no computing power (as such) at all!


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White Fang: 1999 2.7i DC Raider 4x4
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One Staffie, One Jack Russell, One Ring Neck Screecher, 17 Fish of questionable heritage


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DOELLOOS

Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:51 am

you know of course that a new Hilux already has fuel injection...

:mrgreen:

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Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:27 pm

Yeah, but then where's the fun! Amateur radio used to be one of my hobbies, but I dumped it when the "amateur" part of it fell away and they guys started all buying equipment instead of building it. How many of today's radio hams would even know how to tune up an old valve transmitter, let alone build one!

Hey, Eben, I am not referring to you...

1. You are very knowledgeable and an active Radio Ham,
2. You live in Upington and there is nothing else to do...
3. You are bigger than me :mrgreen:


-F_D
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White Fang: 1999 2.7i DC Raider 4x4
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Pra Dog: 1998 Prado VX 3.4
Hound Dog: 2000 2.7i SC 4x4


One Staffie, One Jack Russell, One Ring Neck Screecher, 17 Fish of questionable heritage


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Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:00 am

I made a breakthrough with the timing integration tonight. It ends up the chonkie coil is the hassle. it works on its own igniter but did not want to work of the TP100. I spend some time on it after Barto left here, eventually ending up changing the coil with an OE Toy one from a 4AGE and voilà. :wink:

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Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:25 am

Happy to hear this! The OE coil, I take it, it's externally mounted from the dizzi. Does this mean the internal dizzi one is now wasted? When you have time can you explain what you did, I'm getting excited now...

This weekend past I pulled the motor out my lux and replaced the gearbox seal, in the bell housing, the rear main seal(bloody pirate part was stuffed, 1500km's), and redid the sump gasket(after removing the cork one). The motor is back in, and all seems to be happy. I'm running the engine on semi-synthetic Helix and it's smooth...

So this weekend I am starting with the EFI preparations, first, cleaning and checking the EFI intake, plenum chamber and throttle body bits :)

Bretton

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Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:30 am

No it is also a coil on dizzy as just the same as the Hilux one.

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Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:22 pm

Hi, Bennie

I have to complement you an an excellent article!(even if you are a Blue Bull supporter :twisted: ). I am not mechanically minded at all and even I understand most of it. If only all articles were written this well.

Anyway, I'm really interested to see how this turns out, as well as the total cost, etc... Keep us posted!
1988 Hilex D/C 4x4 (Import spec), Lexus V8; Marlin Crawler; Custom Suspension: front and new 4 link in the rear; Disc Brake conversion rear; 35" Cooper STT tyres; Xenon lights; Custom bullbar;Next? Aircon; new front seats, redo the whole interior in nice soft leather, Respray, Double Lockers
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Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:03 pm

Hi Bennie,

I'm curious to hear how F_D's EFI conversion is progressing? Any news?

Bretton

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Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:05 am

Nothing happend in the last 2 weeks or so. I moved the mag adapter out from inside the dizzy and the misfiring dissapeared but I am still not 100% happy with it. I can't put my finger on it, its more one of those gut feeling things, but we now are definitively going optical.

Fitting a hall pick up in the e-dizzy is going to be difficult so we settled on optical. We have been waiting for our optical pick up kit from the guys at Mr Turbo for the last two weeks now. They have waited for their new stock to arrive and it was delayed somewhere (most probably at the customs :x :x ), but it has arrived this week. I will be going there 2morrow to collect.

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Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:30 pm

Hi Bennie,

If you have read my post under 'Tech... Dyno Tuning', you will see I am going ahead with the conversion asap, because the Nikki carb is basically stuffed. I have decided to go the fuel only route for now. My e-dizzi is working fine, so I figure I'm first going to get the fuel side working 100%, then when time and money allow in the future I may consider the converting the ignition timing control as well.

3 people in the industry have now said I should keep the e-dizzi and go fuel only, as most of the conversion issues are experienced around the ECU controlling the timing.

Is it feasible to first do fuel only at first, and then ignition timing control later? Is it a software switch or does the ECU have to be modified internally?

Thanks,
Bretton

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Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:02 pm

I can tell you from 1st hand experience now that doing ignition integration is way more trouble then its worth. Me and Eric decided to take it all the way now but since we want to finish what we started but if I knew then what I know now I would not have started with it in the 1st place.

To run the ECU with the Coil Neg as reference signal all you need to do is solder in a link that is clearly marked Coil- on the PC board, but if you ask them to supply the unit that way they will, and you can easily reverse it if you need to.

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Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:09 pm

LEKKER! It's time to start... next week!

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Thu Feb 21, 2008 6:45 pm

Bretton,

Document it, like we did. Perhaps use the same heading and label it "Snipes" as a suffix.

Perhaps, when all is siad and done, we will combine the various threads and make one "Super Thread" of the conversion.

Bennie & I found that one of the most important things to have on hand is a good supply of the Golden Brew and Sprite, mixed in a 50/50 ratio, to preserve sanity and to keep the brain moist, but not stirred... :mrgreen:


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Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:56 pm

Hey F_D,

Thanks for making me laugh! Needed it! My experience of late with my Hilux has not been great! I am not sure that I am going to do the job myself anymore, time vs cost. I am starting a new job on 1 March, and I'm worried I won't be able to give it my full attention. I am presently getting quotes from a few places to have it done, using a Dicktator.

I will way up my options and make a decision in the next day or 2, all I know is that the carb has got to go!

[EDIT: 2 minutes after posting: I would still like to do it myself though :? sprite, beer, whisky(my dog) and petrol fumes]

Bretton

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Fri Feb 22, 2008 5:15 am

Bretton

DIY it man especially if you do fuel only its not that difficult. If time is an issue do your prep work in advance so that once you start it is quick to finish.

You can for instance fit the Dicktator unit in its designated spot and route the cables and vacuum pipes thought the firewall before you start. You can also wire the cables going to the Battery and Dizzy in the mean while.

Same goes for the fuel pump. If you are going to install it internally in the tank or outside it does not matter it can still be done before you start the big job. Just do not power it up yet and your old fuel pump will still be able to pump fuel even with the new pump installed in-line already. I saw when we bleeded our system before powering it ( the pump should never run dry as it is lubricated by the fuel) it did not offer any noticeable resistance when we sucked on the fuel pipe in front at the engine. So if you plan properly the actual job can be done rather quickly.

Keep us posted or phone me if you want to discuss something more.

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Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:58 pm

Hey Bennie, thanks,
I will give you a call sometime! Tell me, how did you hook the HP pump up to the fuel tank. I have been told you have to have a 10mm outlet from the tank to the pump, else the pump will work to hard and burn out prematurely, because an external HP pump is still gravity fed. Then I was also told that you must have some sort of mod on the tank to avoid fuel starvation/air suction on steep inclines and descents, like a 2nd LP pump feeding a 2 litre fuel reservior, that's always full. What do you think? This is probably the last mentle hurdle I must get over!

Bretton

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Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:48 pm

why not use the original fuel pump to pump fuel into a surge tank. then use the HP fuel pump from the surge tank to the injectors. i saw this setup on a turbo'd 4y over the weekend. the surge tank was mounted on the firewall and couldnt have been more than 1 litre in volume.

just a thought...
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Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:17 am

Toybox wrote:why not use the original fuel pump to pump fuel into a surge tank.
That is maybe agood idea to investigate.

Bretton

My 7mge ran about 40 000 kms so far without fuel pump problems on the original ID pipes. That is how scientific our decision was when we did Bulldog. We managed to buy a pump from Mr Turbo for R 350 IIRC and we decided that if it does give problems we van always do the submersible one later with the thicker ID pick-up, but for now we will run it as is. Check out earlier we did show the layout of the fuel pump assembly. Removing the tank at the time would have been an issue for us.

My only advice is that Eric should not go and do off-roading on empty tanks but rather make sure that he has about half a tank or more when going off-road which will also improve the traction as Bulldog has about 120L fuel capacity :twisted: :twisted:

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Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:26 am

Ok, this looks promising! Do I have to get a surge tank fabricated or can I buy one of the shelf? If so, where?

Bretton

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Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:30 pm

Bretton, you should be able to buy one off the shelf, as drag racers also use them. I'll check with a friend of mine if he knows and will let you know. In the mean time try phoning a few "speed shops" in your area.
1988 Hilex D/C 4x4 (Import spec), Lexus V8; Marlin Crawler; Custom Suspension: front and new 4 link in the rear; Disc Brake conversion rear; 35" Cooper STT tyres; Xenon lights; Custom bullbar;Next? Aircon; new front seats, redo the whole interior in nice soft leather, Respray, Double Lockers
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Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:36 pm

Cool, will phone around! I've also been reading up a little on the net.

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