22R EFI Conversion

mervyn · Post by **mervyn** » Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:55 am

Hi Guys. I am the latest member to this gr8 club. I have a 97 SFA 4x4 DC, OME kit, dual battery system, long range fuel tank, diff lock & stock standard 22r motor. I bought this bakkie 4 years ago & have used it for general use & not done much off road or long distance, save for touring Pta, Eastern Transvaal and KZN for the World Cup. Fuel consumption is high, i.e. +- 4.5 km/l for town running. Bakkie has 235k and it was showing signs of needing some TLC as far as engine is concerned. I was not sure if I was going to keep her. Vehicle is in very good condition, but noticed oil starting to be consumed and sluggish uphills. Decided to keep her and presently o/hauling motor and giving her a fresh coat of paint. Hoping to have her back next Friday. However fuel consumption has been an issue. I filled R300 and got about 175 kms. Now that motor is done I want to consider conversion to EFI or even Golf carb that some of you guys have tried (or anything else that will help fuel consumption). I have also recently bought a ski boat and want to use bakkie for moving boat around various dams. I have since taken this bakkie seriously. Since I logged onto this site earlier this evening, I have not stopped reading all the interesting articles and projects you guys have undertaken and shared. Now I feel like part of a greater family. PLEASE I can do with some advice and help with fuel. My mechanic says consumption will be better now as we have done all the main things, except head which was fine. I have no parts for any conversion and will be starting this from scratch. I will appreciate all the help. Cheers.

Post by **LouisZ** » Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:06 am

Welcome,

Well the Efi will be better. It gives more power, also will take your fuel com. up to about 8km/l,Cassie can tell. There is only one problem, to get the Efi intake manifolds is difficult. In SA not available. You have to get them 70% from the Usa or 30% from Australia.

The rest is easy to get and to install.

mervyn · Post by **mervyn** » Fri Oct 29, 2010 5:38 pm

Hi. tks for that. will start the search. will any 22R injection manifold do, esp if we are looking at getting from the USA? not sure if their vehicles have identical engines to ours? Also what else usually comes with the manifold?

Post by **LouisZ** » Sat Oct 30, 2010 12:11 pm

Ask for the 22R-E Fuel Injection intake manifold. The 22R and 22R-E is exactly the same.

The Manifold, fuel rail, injectors and fuel regulator must be with if you import.

Post by **Mud Dog** » Sat Oct 30, 2010 5:52 pm

And also the throttle body.

mervyn · Post by **mervyn** » Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:57 pm

Guys tks for the tips. I am trying to search for the stuff & will keep u guys advised of progress. Do u guys know if the 1800 Golf carb works on the 22R? I am keeping that as my Plan B.

Hi-Hilux · Post by **Hi-Hilux** » Sun Oct 31, 2010 7:48 pm

jammer as dit dalk stupid klink maar een van ons uit huur karre is n condor 2.4i sal sy goed dan nie pas nie?

cprinsloo · Post by **cprinsloo** » Sun Oct 31, 2010 8:20 pm

Hi-Hilux wrote:jammer as dit dalk stupid klink maar een van ons uit huur karre is n condor 2.4i sal sy goed dan nie pas nie?

Sover ek weet is dit 'n ander engine. En die guru's het gesê die Golf card is net te klein vir die 22R, maar mens kan seker probeer. Midas of Autozone verkoop die adaptor plaat ook....

mervyn · Post by **mervyn** » Mon Nov 01, 2010 8:46 am

Still waiting for one of the 'gurus' to confirm about the Golf Carb?

Post by **pietpetoors** » Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:14 pm

I doubt that the Golf carb will be big enough for the 22R

Trevor, as far as I know the condor's 2.4 engine is the same design and smaller version of the newer 2.7 engine and not the same as the old 22R 2.4 engine, thus the manifold and stuff won't fit.

I think in other countries there was a 22RE engine which had fuel injection and that is the manifold you have to look for at the engine importers.

AM Racing · Post by **AM Racing** » Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:41 pm

Just an afterthought. Why not covert to a 2.7i to begin with. Everything is there.

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:44 pm

Cost...

A 2.4 EFi mod would cost around 20K... a 3RZ conversion closer to 40K!

mervyn · Post by **mervyn** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:22 am

Guys tks for all the info. I need your opinion and help again. I am trying to source an intake manifold and the one that I am negotiating came off a 84 Celica using a 22RE motor. As I understand that is completely compatible with my '96 22R. I need to know whether I have to use the throttle position sensor (TPS) that came with that car or can I rely on a Diktator, which I have to buy seperately?

mervyn · Post by **mervyn** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:39 am

Tks Pieter for the thoughts on the Golf carb. I am rulling out a carb conversion for now as I have almost secured a 22RE intake. Maybe one of our guys will try out a bigger carb and we will all be wiser.

cprinsloo · Post by **cprinsloo** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:49 pm

mervyn wrote:Guys tks for all the info. I need your opinion and help again. I am trying to source an intake manifold and the one that I am negotiating came off a 84 Celica using a 22RE motor. As I understand that is completely compatible with my '96 22R. I need to know whether I have to use the throttle position sensor (TPS) that came with that car or can I rely on a Diktator, which I have to buy seperately?

Dicktator uses MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure), no TPS input necessary, except if you fit a turbo. Pressure sensor integrated in Dicktator, you only need a pipe.

You also don't need the Cold Start Injector or EGV or MAF and all the other stuff.

Upper, lower, injectors, fuel rail, throttle body, if you can get water pipe and air intake pipe that can help. Make sure it's got the thermostat housing.

If you can handle a soldering iron and spanners, and have basic tools, you can do the conversion yourself for less than R10 K, and you have the advantage to do your own faultfinding/repair/tuning if necessary.

There is some welding involved (distributor, fuel pump bracket), but not much.

Good luck,

C

Gunta · Post by **Gunta** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:58 pm

Dictator uses a map sensor so I would not worry about the TPS. Have you bought a dictator yet. If not I have one for you.

mervyn · Post by **mervyn** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:05 pm

Chris I really appreciate your advice and assistance thus far. So far what is almost confirmed is the upper and lower manifold, with throttle body, fuel rail and injectors. I am quite hands on and dont mind the challenge, but my friend is a mechanic and he is just as anxious to be part of this so that he has this type of conversion under his beat too. I will try to get as much as I can of the parts. Will let you know once I have it, just keep crossed fingers for me for now. tks again.

mervyn · Post by **mervyn** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:16 pm

Hi Mark. Tks will keep it in mind as I dont have one as yet. Want to get the main things first, else its a case of "putting the cart before......." Is your bakkie on the road. Let me know where you got your bead blasting done and how much it cost you 'cos I also want to get stuff done.

Gunta · Post by **Gunta** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:17 am

Hi Mervyn, it should be on the road by the weekend. I should get the bolts today and then I can finish off. The guy who did my bead blasting is Ted 011 708 2475 from Boreco engineering in Kya sands. He is from the old school and assembles the motors himself. He has been in the business for over 30 years. I paid R7500 for overhauling my head, reboring 20 thou, bead blasting, balancing the motor and re assembling the block. I supplied the spares. He machined the block and head to a mirror finish because I am using a metal gasket.

mervyn · Post by **mervyn** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:53 am

Howzit Mark. You must really looking forward to getting it on the road. My bakkie is due from the paint shop tomorrow and hopefully we will be able to drop the motor back in on Friday. Have done the whole motor as well, 20tho rebore though, balanced motor too, head was fine though. Just added branches. Also impatient to get it on the road again. Speak soon. Cheers

Gunta · Post by **Gunta** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:33 pm

How are you going to run it in. There are lots of different opinions out there. The other school of thought is to give it horns for the first 50km to force the air behind the rings so they can bed in. They say 80% of the rings bed in in the first 50km. They also use this method for aeroplane engines. I have seen the colour of the pistons when done like this and they are much cleaner than the ones that ran it in over 1000km.

Post by **pietpetoors** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:09 am

Hi Mervyn, depending on how long shipment takes I will have a inlet manifold within a week or two. It is the upper and lower body plus throttle body. I still have to see what my import duty will be but seems like the total price will be about R1,500

So as jy nie regkom nie, hou dit in gedagte

GeorgeJvR · Post by **GeorgeJvR** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:15 am

pietpetoors wrote:Hi Mervyn, depending on how long shipment takes I will have a inlet manifold within a week or two. It is the upper and lower body plus throttle body. I still have to see what my import duty will be but seems like the total price will be about R1,500

So as jy nie regkom nie, hou dit in gedagte

Pieter wat sal ek nog verder moet aanskaf vir die EFI stelsel op die 22R?

Post by **pietpetoors** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:31 am

Ek weet self nie, vra vir Cassie, hy maak uit van, sal vir hom se hy moet hier kom raad gee

mervyn · Post by **mervyn** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:36 am

Hi Pieter. I am really struggling with that as the buyer had listed it for sale only in USA and I am trying all sorts for delivery to SA. So I will be really interested if you could hold that manifold for me. Do you also have the fuel rail and injectors?

mervyn · Post by **mervyn** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:42 am

Hi Mark. Sorry ave been off the air for a while. Bakkie is back. Paint is fine but as usual there are one or two snags and bakkie will have to go in for a day or two soon. Engine is in and is still a bit rough on the settings etc. Tappets are little to loose for now and I am actuallu taking the nursing route of runnin it in. Only done about 180kms in two days. Changing gears at around 2500/3000 rpm. Looking for every excuse to use her and run up the mileage. I think I am too concerned to experiment with giving her horns, but she sounds nice and engine feels smooth. Anyway will send pics of the bakkie soon as I want her tweaked before posting pics. Hows your bakkie? Is she on the road and have you decided to give her horns?

Post by **CasKru** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:26 am

GeorgeJvR wrote:
pietpetoors wrote:Hi Mervyn, depending on how long shipment takes I will have a inlet manifold within a week or two. It is the upper and lower body plus throttle body. I still have to see what my import duty will be but seems like the total price will be about R1,500

So as jy nie regkom nie, hou dit in gedagte
Pieter wat sal ek nog verder moet aanskaf vir die EFI stelsel op die 22R?

IIRC... you need the following:
Intake manifold
Plenum chamber
Throttle body
Fuel rail
Injectors
Idle control valve (ICV)
Fuel pedal cable (depending on your preference - mine is still original but is a little sticky)
High pressure fuel pump
Fuel filters (I have two. One small leading to the serge tank and one big one after fuel pump)
Facet fuel pump (optional - mine keeps the surge tank full)
Water Hose (top one from radiator to intake at thermostat needs to be longer)
Fuel pressure regulator (I had to buy one due to the fact that the one on the fuel rail was faulty and it's difficult to source in SA)
All kinds of rubber pipe (Fuel, air, vacuum)
Air Temp sensor
Water temp sensor (might still be on the manifold)
Dictator Std (or any ECU)
Igniter
Mag adapter
Modified Dizzy (mine was welded so the trigger angle cannot adjust. You can retension the springs internally to stop this from happening as well)
Welch plugs
Lugs and Crimping tool
Isolation tape
Cable Ties
Binding Spir
Heat Shield
Fuse Box
Air intake modification
Head Seal set for manifold etc

This is much as I can remember.
To follow my conversion.... viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4928" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:53 am

Fuel pedal cable = Accelerator cable

Isolation tape = Insulation tape

Cas what on earth is 'Binding Spir'... is it the rip-sleeve?

GeorgeJvR · Post by **GeorgeJvR** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:56 am

Thanks for the link Cassie.

Post by **CasKru** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:26 am

Mr_B wrote:

Fuel pedal cable = Accelerator cable

Isolation tape = Insulation tape

Cas what on earth is 'Binding Spir'... is it the rip-sleeve?

My brain is out of office today it seems..... :evil: :evil:

I could not remember the name for an accelerator cable and the insulation tape..... mmhhhh let's just say yeah...

I actually ment rip-sleeve but binding spir is a similar thing just much more effort. It's a strip of plastic roled into a spiral so it makes a tube. You can wrap this around cables etc.

Post by **CasKru** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:31 am

PS... I also know the Binding Spir as Spiral bind

Glad to be of assistance Mr_B :)

Gunta · Post by **Gunta** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:38 pm

Mervyn, I am also runing in my 7m and I have not run it in like you have.
I gave it stick once the engine was warm. Check out this link.
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

mervyn · Post by **mervyn** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:28 pm

Wow Mark, thats a very controversial article but that is another school of thought. Well lets see how this pans out, will try 'opening her up' a little.

mervyn · Post by **mervyn** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:34 pm

Tks Cassie. Thats a really good checklist. Will need it soon. Out of curiosity where is the best place to get most of this if it is not at hand. Cheers

Gunta · Post by **Gunta** » Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:06 am

Give her stick and drive her like you stole it. I was with my mate who races Porsche and when the rebuild their motors they stick it on the dyno and rev it to 7500rpm and then they take it on the race track and give it horns. They also say the rings need presure to force them out to bed against the walls, and that can only be done by forcing air in and giving it horns. So don't be scared, give it horns bud.

mervyn · Post by **mervyn** » Fri Nov 26, 2010 7:10 pm

Pieter, ek het reggekom!

I managed to buy a complete manifold (upper & lower) + throttle body, fuel rail & injectors, sensors, FPR, plus thermostat housing and water pipe for that. Also have rubber hose for throttle body. So guys another EFI conversion on the way soon.....

Post by **pietpetoors** » Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:22 pm

I am glad you got one, remember to keep us up to date

mervyn · Post by **mervyn** » Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:54 pm

Hi Guys. Sorry for the long break of silence. I have been busy trying to source an EFI manifold and I eventually did. I am just waiting to receive and test it before celebrating as Cassie warned me via a PM about checking it, but I am being +ive. BTW does anyone know where I can get a Walbro HP pump locally, preferably in Jhb? Steve was good enough to send me details of John but I cant get hold of him. And as you guys can imagine, I am anxious to get all the parts and get this underway. I leave to St Lucia in 3 weeks time, so am keen to get this done before I go so I can try out the 'new' bakkie.

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:48 pm

Hi Mervyn,

They may not sell Walbro, but Mr Turbo has alot of EFi related parts, they sell refurbished HP pumps, which seem to work very well. A few of the guys on the forum have these units installed, specifically the FP601.

http://www.mrturbo.co.za/index.php?opti ... 3&Itemid=1

They also sell new fuel pressure regulators and all sorts of other useful goodies. I certainly hope that 3 weeks will be enough time, experience has taught me that EFi conversions usually have a few teething problems along the way!

Mr B

mervyn · Post by **mervyn** » Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:37 pm

Yep Cassie warned me too. If I have everything & think I will have enough time to test, will undertake conversion. Otherwise it will have to wait until I return.nTks for link, will check it out.

mervyn · Post by **mervyn** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:23 pm

Hi Guys

Guess What, my parts arrived a few minutes ago. :) Except for them being in a really dirty condition, they look fine. Two plastic vacuum/sensor parts were damaged as you may be able to see on the pics. One under the upper manifold and the other at the end of the lower. Here is also a pic of the bakkie b4 painting. So going to buy all other parts. Cant see doing conversion before I leave, (which is a pity, but better safe than sorry).

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:43 pm

Gunta · Post by **Gunta** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:29 pm

Send the manifolds in for bead blasting

mervyn · Post by **mervyn** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:35 pm

Hi Mark. Already made arrangements with your guy Ted for that. May have it there 2morrow morning.

Gunta · Post by **Gunta** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:27 pm

Cool beans

mervyn · Post by **mervyn** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:00 pm

Guys,
1. This ICV came off a Golf 3, I am told. I need to know if anyone knows how to rig this up for my conversion. Cassie tells me it is a rotary type which is preferred but need more help as requested.

2. On the fuel set up, I am going with Cassie's advice of LP filter, LP/Facet pump, surge tank, HP pump, HP filter and fuel rail.(Only set out the inlet flow, outlet will be fuel rail to surge tank and also surge tank back to main tank). Thing where I need help is, should I install pumps, filters and s/tank at the back (like the way Cassie did) or should I install the LP stuff at the back and the HP stuff and s/tank in the engine bay, (like the way Zepplin did). Can do with hindsight thoughts given the previous conversions.
3. Lastly (slightly off the topic) given the number of PMs iro details of where I sourced the manifold, here are the details of the seller (bjbcase@charter.net) and hope he can help as he mentioned he had 2 engines for stripping. Have given his details to other members via PMs.

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:18 pm

The one we use comes off a Golf, but it doesn't look like that... it looks like this:

By the looks of it, the one you got is also a 2 wire plunger-type, so it will probably do the trick as well!

mervyn · Post by **mervyn** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:32 pm

Tks Mr B. Will try to see if I can swop it for the one you have.

cprinsloo · Post by **cprinsloo** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:41 am

Hi Mervyn

I don't know if you have a body lift, then maybe you won't have the problem I had:

The EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirc) pipe is bolted onto the rear of the plenum, and I have sawn the pipe off and brazed a piece of flat bar onto what was left to close the hole. When I installed the plenum the ear nearest the brake diaphraim bumped against the housing, so I have sawn off the ear and then plugged the hole with just a bolt (maybe you should use a welsch plug).

The hole nearest the firewall where the bolt fits to bolt the two pieces of the manifold together, was inaccessable (no space to fit the bolt at all). So I screwed in a longer bolt from the "inside", and just put a nut on the outside, used a modified 13 mm spanner to tighten it.

But maybe you won't have that problem if the cab is raised...

Cheers,

C

mervyn · Post by **mervyn** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:08 pm

Hi Chris. I do have a raised body, full OME kit on, but thanks for the advice

Guys any advice on the fuel setup?

zepplin · Post by **zepplin** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:41 pm

Mervyn, the OME kit raises the whole van. Chris is talking about raising the body on the chassis. I had the same problem as Chris described & solved it in the same way. Not a big issue at all to rectify it in this way. IRO the ICV, the one that Bretton has loaded pics of is the one to go for - easily found & cheap as chips.

Did you get your Walbro?

mervyn · Post by **mervyn** » Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:13 pm

Tks for clearing that up for me Steve. And thanks again to Chris for his continued advice. OK I will be aware of that. This is the latest. I have been busy trying to close off at the office so my time devoted to the conversion has been seconded for now. I managed to get the manifolds bead blasted and will have them painted in engine enamel over the weekend. I ended up buying a VW Microbus 2.3i pump. I also bought the facet pump and both LP and HP filters. I decided to have the seals replaced for the injectors and managed to get that from Gemini today. I unsuccessfully tried Diesel-Electric in Wynberg for the injector plugs. Gemini also dont have them. Any suggestions anyone?I returned the previous ICV and am sourcing the one that Bretton sent. Tks for that again Mr B. I still have not decided on the placement of the surge tank and the HP pump.

Post by **CasKru** » Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:12 pm

Mervyn.... I speak under correction but I believe you might be able to source those plugs at Dicktator. http://www.dicktator.co.za/products.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:52 am

MrTurbo should have as well!

http://www.mrturbo.co.za/index.php?page ... t&Itemid=1

cprinsloo · Post by **cprinsloo** » Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:26 am

Mr_B wrote:MrTurbo should have as well!

http://www.mrturbo.co.za/index.php?page ... t&Itemid=1

And if you crimp the pins to the wires, solder them as well so that corrosion won't be a problem in future.

I also used some high-voltage tape to wrap around all the soldered joints on the wires, which can stretch and fuse together (nearly like the silicon stuff), bit thicker than heat shrick tubing, but much easier and maybe better insulation. Doesn't look as good as heat shrink, but all went into the corrugated sleeving anyway.

Cheers,

C

mervyn · Post by **mervyn** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:58 pm

Hi guys. Sorry for the long loss of contact. Returned from holiday to find that my adsl router had been hit by lightning, so I didnt have internet access at home. I have managed to get the correct (or shall a say preferred) ICV. I just managed to put a coat of engine enamel on the manifolds and have just measured for a a surge tank. I am going to install it almost identically to where Cassie has his. Going to get someone to make that up for me. I have small items to buy like fuel lines etc and the main outstanding item is the Dicktator & igniter. Will send soon of how things are coming together.

Tonto · Post by **Tonto** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:46 pm

Hi Mervyn,
I bought a manifold from the same guy in the US (bjbcase) on EBay.
How did he ship and what problems (if any) did you have?

mervyn · Post by **mervyn** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:35 pm

Hi Andre. He sent it via US Priority Mail. His side was fast, delay was here for about a week. Post office delivers to you. All was fine. Good luck with your conversion.

Tonto · Post by **Tonto** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:30 am

Thanks Mervyn,
Did you have to pay duties?
I cannot wait to do this!!!

mervyn · Post by **mervyn** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:14 am

Andre the courier costs were about R160 USD and when the dekivered I paid R25-00 bucks, wud u believe! Just ask him to package properly as some of the plastic valves and vacuum pipes broke off, but nothing that u cant get. Yep its a gr8 feeling. how far are you with the other requirements?