2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Discuss modifications on your 1979 to late 1998 SFA 4x4 Hilux here.
Castos
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2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by Castos »

My bakkie will be going in on monday for her new heart. :P

I'll try my best to keep you informed as to how easy or frustrating it is going to be. Luckily I've got years and years of experiense on the forum to help.
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by CasKru »

Good luck and hope it is all plain sailing and remember, you've got a Hilux, you'll get over any obstacle in your way :)
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by ToyX4 »

Good, I can't wait. Of all the conversions, this is the only one I'll consider( and a V8 Lex ), but only if/when the 22R has had enough.

Take lots of pics please
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by Family_Dog »

ToyX4 wrote:Good, I can't wait. Of all the conversions, this is the only one I'll consider( and a V8 Lex ), but only if/when the 22R has had enough.

Take lots of pics please
Ditto! Watching this topic keenly!


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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by Dadz Toy BFI »

A very wise choice of conversion Reynard :thumbup:

Please give us a bit more background ie.

why now?
why the 2.7i?
who's doing it?
Standard or aftermarket EFi?

and lots a lots of peekchaz please :thumbup: :P
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by Castos »

Dadz Toy BFI wrote:A very wise choice of conversion Reynard :thumbup:

Please give us a bit more background ie.

why now?
why the 2.7i?
who's doing it?
Standard or aftermarket EFi?

and lots a lots of peekchaz please :thumbup: :P
To answer your questions,

My bakkie is paid off so it belongs to me now.
I drove a 2.7 when they came out and I've been missing that Hilux ever since. Got the motor for less than a EFI manifold and I know she will be good for 450 - 500 000km. Talking to guys in the know, this is the fastest and most reliable conversion to do.
I got hold of a mechanical eng who is doing the work for me.
I'm going to ask Bennie to get me a price on a dictator system. :thumbup:
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by BenHur »

Reynard

The 3RZ runs on wasted spark. That ECU unit and igniter is slightly more expensive ( not the basic unit), but I will get you the cost. Did you get the coils with?
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by Castos »

BenHur wrote:Reynard

The 3RZ runs on wasted spark. That ECU unit and igniter is slightly more expensive ( not the basic unit), but I will get you the cost. Did you get the coils with?
Coils? I sthat the part that gives spark to the plugs? If so I think so, is it the part that replaces the destribitor? I got the complete everything except the blerrie ECU.
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by cprinsloo »

Good luck tjomma!!
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by BenHur »

Cool then it should not be an issue.
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by Castos »

Thanks Bennie

Had a look on their website. I see I need the wasted spark ecu.

I've got a stupid question, when I go to a spares shop to buy the spares needed, what do I ask for?

Example the bellhousing and adapter plate, is this a 2.7 bellhousing and a adapter plate from 2.4 to 2.7? The fork and thrust bearing, is it for the 2.7? What petrol pump and fpr do I get? I know the 2.7's fuel pump is in the petrol tank.
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by BenHur »

Didn't your motor come with a FPR? It should be mounted on the exit side of the fuel rail.

The pump you can choose to go for a after market one or an original Bosch from Gold wagen/Bosch Diesel Electric. On the 22R/4Ys the 150l/hour pumps are fine but on the 3RZ you may need a bit moer as the engine produces a lot more HP. I guess in the region 200l/hour or more.

I used the Krenek units as sold by Mr Turbo with great success so far but there prices went up a bit recently.

The FP507 Fuel Pump150l/hour and the FP601 Fuel Pump is now the same price I would suggest looking at the FP601 as it delivers 210l/h

http://www.mrturbo.co.za/index.php?page ... t&Itemid=1

Regarding the clutch/belhousing etc. I think it is supposed to be a bolt on using the 3RZ Clutch Kit, but speak to Alan Venter as he has done such conversions before.
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by Castos »

Thanks Bennie.
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by Castos »

Motor is out, we sourge a 2.7 bellhousing and fits like a glove. The new motor is being cleaned, polished and painted. :clap:
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by Dadz Toy BFI »

Cool, can you take lots of photos please :?: :wink:
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by Castos »

My motor is in. :twisted: They are busy to buid a custom engine mounting as described by Hoppy. I just need to get a ecu for her now.

Bennie can you please PM my a quote on a dictator? I'm able to get a "dominique" or something like that complete with harness etc for R3500.

So I need advice on what to get. O yes, and how big is the difference between the standard outlet manifold and a branch, powerwise?

Sorry about the pics, I'm about a 120km away from my truck and only get home at 18:00 at night. So I can only see her over weekends.
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by Dadz Toy BFI »

Castos wrote:My motor is in. :twisted: They are busy to buid a custom engine mounting as described by Hoppy. I just need to get a ecu for her now.

Bennie can you please PM my a quote on a dictator? I'm able to get a "dominique" or something like that complete with harness etc for R3500.

So I need advice on what to get. O yes, and how big is the difference between the standard outlet manifold and a branch, powerwise?

Sorry about the pics, I'm about a 120km away from my truck and only get home at 18:00 at night. So I can only see her over weekends.
So......

Don't forget to take your camera tomorrow :!: :!:

:wink:

Exciting times nê :P
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by Castos »

I made a mistake on the ecu. I can get a Spitronics or a Microtech. Microtech out due to waiting time. So how good is the Spitronics?
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by dalkill »

is it really that easy to stick a 2.7 engine in a SFA?
what about gear and diff ratios etc?
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by Mr_B »

Reynard,

Microtech is very good but costs a fortune as well!

Bennie is going to m$@r u, Dicktator do a wasted spark(I always thought this was a drunk electrician...) version:

http://www.dicktator.co.za/html/wasted_spark_ecu_s.html

And you get decent local support cause it's manufactured in JHB!

B
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by Castos »

Thanks for all the info sofar.

I like the dictator system, and I cannot find a problem with the spitronics, plus to my advantage, there is a spitronics agent in town. So maybe on a support side, i may go the spitronics route. They both cost the same money.

On the conversion side, all that is needed is a 2.7 radiator, cowling, bellhousing, clutchkit and some changes to the engine mountings. The exhaust needs to be rerouted aswell.

Bennie thanks for the info and advice. I'm going to chat to the agent tomorrow and will let you know what he says.
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by Castos »

Right, motor is fixed to the hilux. Can't wait to see her and now I need to work late.

What has happened so far,

1. Bought a 2.7 bellhousing with adapterplate from spares shop.
2. Installed new 2.7 clutch kit.
3. Had to find 2 steel brackets for the engine mountings.
4. Had motor painted, polished and serviced.
5. Pulled old motor and installed new motor.

What still needs to happen,

1. Install EMU system. (Spitronics)
2. Bend pipes for the aircon unit.
3. Bend and makup a pipe for the intake manifold. From polished stainless steel. :twisted:
4. Makeup a throttle cable
5. Install fuel pump. (Bosch)
6. Reroute the exhaust system from left to right.
7. Dyno and a lot of playtime. :clap: 8 )
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by Evert Deyzel »

Castos

What was your costs so far if i may ask?...
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by Castos »

Evert Deyzel wrote:Castos

What was your costs so far if i may ask?...
I going to have a total bill of about R18 000, but I sold by 22R (2.4) for R5000. So the complete job is the same as what a 3RZ motor will cost me ( Got the motor for a bargain). :thumbup:

Spoke to the eng who is doing the work. His complaining about all the SFA owners in his shop the whole day :lol: News travels fast in the slowveld. :o:
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by Toybox »

Reynard,

Don't give your EMU choice a second thought. I think you'll be very happy with the Spitronics. Its a piece of cake to install and hasnt let me down!
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by Castos »

Toybox wrote:Reynard,

Don't give your EMU choice a second thought. I think you'll be very happy with the Spitronics. Its a piece of cake to install and hasnt let me down!
Thanks for the advice. I must say I'm impressed with the service from their agents. Spoke to him on saterday, decided yesterday paid him and it was delivered today.
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by Toybox »

If you get stuck feel free to give Peet a call directly, he's not afraid to help. Otherwise I'll help if I'm able to...
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by BenHur »

Castos wrote: 1. Bought a 2.7 bellhousing with adapterplate from spares shop.
What adapter plate is this?
Castos wrote: 3. Bend and makup a pipe for the intake manifold. From polished stainless steel. :twisted:
Just be careful of heat soak I am also going to chuck my metal pipes for silicon or do something to lessen the impact of heat soak. Unfortunately silicon pipes is very expensive
Castos wrote: 4. Make up a throttle cable
A Hi Ace cable from your local spare shop is not very expensive and is easy to modify, you cut off the one grommet cut it too length and make a fitting for the peddle side. I use a piece of 12mm square bar cut about 15mm long in which I drill a small hole from top to bottom and a small threaded hole from the side into which you put a screw to clamp the cable with.
This will cost you about R50 vs R 300-400 for a cable made from one of these shops that does it "professionally"


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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by Castos »

I spoke to the mech, no adapter plate my mistake. :oops:

Where can I get these silicon pipes, and will they not melt? Throttle cable, thanks wil tell him about it.

Sorry about the pic's, I haven't seen my truck since I dropped it off there. :cry: I'm 120km away from her everyday and with all the roadworks on the N4, I only get home like 18:00.
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by BenHur »

Castos wrote: Where can I get these silicon pipes, and will they not melt?
No they are made for that purpose specifically, the performance guys use them.

Try Wafeeq's Go Fast & Doef Doef Store Enol round the corner :wink:
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by Jaws »

Castos wrote: silicon pipes, and will they not melt? .
My wife has baking "pans' made from silicon used for 40 min at 220 degC with the oven pre-heated at 180deg C for 10 minutes
Last edited by Jaws on Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by Scorpion »

Jaws wrote: My wife has baking "pans' made from silicon used for 40 min at 220 degC with the oven pre-heated at 180deg C for 10 minutes
Herman, wat het jou vrou se bakgewoontes met die thread te doen? :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by Castos »

Got some pic's but alas the 3G is to slow.

I've got a few questions.

What color is the wire running from the rev counter?

Can the Spitronics work without a Lamba sensor?

The airflow, air temp meter on the 2.7 had 5 pins. What pin does what?
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by 3RZ »

Have a look at the The Official 3RZ Knowledge and Database Thread on the Marlin Crawler website http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=19275.0 - worhwile reading.

Most if not all of the info that you need is there, how to level the engine, wiring, how to modify the tacho to work with the twin coil setup (all on page 2), engine mountings etc. [ok I see they all used the factory ecu which changes things a bit, still lots of valid info]

The Spitronics should be able to work without the Lambda sensor.
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by 3RZ »

Here is the MAF sensor diagram
cip0100.pdf
(36.1 KiB) Downloaded 134 times
The wire to the revcounter should be black, on the 2.7 wiring harness (there were some colour changes between different years, but not many)

I take it that the engine you got is the 8 intake port one with the MAF sensor not he MAP sensor ?
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by Castos »

3RZ wrote:Here is the MAF sensor diagram
cip0100.pdf
The wire to the revcounter should be black, on the 2.7 wiring harness (there were some colour changes between different years, but not many)

I take it that the engine you got is the 8 intake port one with the MAF sensor not he MAP sensor ?
Honestly I don't know, All I know is, that the sensor sits on the airintake pipe, has a flat cover and has 5 pins. All I need it to know which pin does what. I don't know if its a MAF or MAP.

Thanks for the info sofar, helps a lot. :thumbup:
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by Toybox »

The Spitronics can definately work without a lambda.... But it'll never hurt to connect it, they're not too expensive....
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by Toybox »

Also now that i think about it, why not do away with the MAF sensor and rather install the Spitronics MAP sensor? Should be alot simpler...
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by bosjakkals »

Was quuted R25000 for a 7m convertion but would seriously consider the 3 RZ convertion once I am convinced my V6 rook en kook is not up to the task :eh:

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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by Castos »

Hier is so paar pic's 8 )
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by BenHur »

CJ

R25K for the 7M is a good quote but budget 30-40% more. If you can get a 3RZ for the price Reynard did it is definitely worth your while easier mod less cooling issues. When I did my 7M conversion initially these engines itself sold in the region of R40-50k :shock: :shock:

Reynard

Try uitvind oor hoe om die evap cannister te koppel. Dan suig hy al die dampe uit die tenk op maak dit weer vloeistof en sit en sit dit terug in die fuel line, spaar so extra bietjie petrol.

Calling Professor Willem, hoe gaan mens te werk, waar koppel jy hom op die tank, het jy 'n ekstra outlet nodig of kan jy hom dalk op een van die breathers in T?

Jou foudies so biekie die lig aangeswitch

O ja ek stem saam met Jonathan vergeet van MAF heeltemal te temperamenteel en unreliable, kyk of van daai drade wel die Intake Air Temp sensor is, want dit kan jy wel gebruik maar kry eerder 'n MAPp sensor vir die ECU om op te wek inplaas van die MAF meter.
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by Castos »

As ek reg verstaan, is die Lamba net vir die tuning van die petrol/air mixture?

Die MAP sensor, meet hy airflow en Airtemp gewoontlik? What ek eintlik vra is, ek het die 2 sensors nodig om haar mooi te kan tune? Of gebruik die EMU dit, om haarself te tune?
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by BenHur »

Die MAP meet manifold absolute pressure en te same met die AIT bepaal die volume van lug wat in die engine ingaan. Die Mass Airflow Meter meet die volume van die lug wat deur dit (en die engine in) gaan. Daar volgens bepaal die ECU hoe lank om die injectors te spuit en so word die Air Fuel Ratio bepaal. Meeste MAP stelsels kyk nie eers na Throttle Position Sensor om AFR te bepaal nie en jy hoef die meestal nie eers te koppel nie.

Die Lambda meet die gasse en toets die AFR deur te kyk hoeveel onontbrande gasse kom uit die engine uit. Dan sal die ECU daai info gebruik om die AFR te "korrigeer". DIt het meer met emmisions as enige iets anders uit te waaie maar is nie sleg om te hê nie aangesien dit jou lae to middel RPM en throttle toestande meer effectief te maak, maar sodra jy voet in die hoek sit ignoreer die ECU die Lambda sensor. I goed ingestelde ECU werk baie goed sonder 'n Lambda sensor maar as jy een kan fit sal dit nie skade den nie. Moet net nie 'n cheapy gebruik nie dan mors jy jou tyd. Schalk moes al een of twee Lamda sensors op Spitronics ECUs disable omdat die mense swak kwaliteit sensors gebruik het wat die ECU rondneuk.
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by Castos »

Ok, so ek moet nie eintlik worry oor die Lmba nie, maar eerder oor die MAP?
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by 3RZ »

Ek sal nie eers worry oor die evaporative emissions charcoal cannister nie, hy sorg maar net dat die petroltenk se dampe nie in die atmosfeer vrygestel word nie maar enjin toe gaan.

1 Die petroltenk moet 'n geslote sisteem wees om al die dampe te kan opvang, die ouer hilux s'n is nie.
2 Die Vacuum Switching Valve vir die spul word beheer deur die factory ECU, wat nie gebruik gaan word nie.
3 Daar is addisionele pyp wat van die tenk af aangele moet word om die dampe tot by die charcoal cannister en die enjin te bring.

As dit my ombouing was sou ek alles so eenvoudig moontlik doen en ek stem saam met Bennie - vergeet van die Lambda sensor en die MAF (Hot wire air flow meter). Kry 'n MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure)sensor en 'n AIT (Air intake temperature) sensor. Die map sensor is so ongeveer R250, en die IAT sensor kan nie meer kos nie. (Die intake air temp sensor is deel van die MAF sensor dis hoekom hy 5 drade het). Die MAP sensor is volgens my meer betroubaar en BAIE goedkoper indien dit vervang moet word. (Die map sensor is ingebou op die Dicktator)

Die IAT sensor sal ek net voor die throttle body insit. Ek kon nog net een plek kry wat die silicon pyp aanhou wat jy nodig het met 70mm ID (inner diameter) en dit is Universal coolers http://www.hot4cold.co.za teen R100 per 100mm :wth:

Die Uitlaatpyp sal ek twee pype hou na die flange by die branch en bymekaarbring omtrent op die hoogte van die ratkas, die buig daar is 'n bietjie van 'n pyn want jy moet onder om die voorste propshaft, miskien lyk dinge bietjie anders op die SFA.

Die 8 intake poort trek beter, is ligter op brandstof en het meer krag onderlangs, hy het ook 'n camshaft positioning sensor wat wat die 4 poort nie het nie.
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by Castos »

3RZ, thanks for all the info. I got the MAP today and it's already installed (It's part of the kit, lets just say it was misplaced) What I now need to figure out which of the 5 pins are for the air intake temprature sensor (AIT).

Jy moet my verskoon, ek is 'n myner en sukkel partykeer. :shifty:

Ek het met die agent gepraat, die se ook ek moet weg bly van die Lamba sensor af.

O ja, sy loop more :clap:
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by BenHur »

Reynard

Wat Willem sê is waar, die AIT op die MAF sit te ver dis beter om hom reg voor die throttle body te instaleer sodat hy kan kompenseer as die pype na die aircleaner warm word. Ek koop gewoonlik 'n Camry sin maar daaris verskillende ander Toyotas sin wat almal gewoonlik in die Aircleaner sit.

Hy lyk so

download/file.php?id=1269

Sorg dat jy daai rubber grommit wat om hom is soos in hierdie foto saam kry. Dan maak jy 'n gat so 16-17mm groot in die aircleaner pyp net voor die throttle body en steek die grommit daar in en dan die AIT.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x116 ... ics046.jpg

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x116 ... ics047.jpg
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by Castos »

The motor is turning over but we are getting no spark. HELP!!! PLEASE
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by BenHur »

Sorry jy sal vir Jonothan moet wag ek ken nie die Spittronics nie.

As dit 'n Dicktator was sou ek soos volg te werk gegaan het. Op die voorste paneel van die dicktator is daar 'n geel liggie wat puls as die ECU pulse kry van die engine af (in jou geval vanaf die crank angle sensor). Miskien kan jy met die laptop sien of die ECU enige tekens gee dat hy pulse kry as die engine draai. Iets soos 'n RPM indicator. Indien wel sal jy maar die bedrading na die ignitors moet nagaan. Indien hy nie puls nie is die issue met die crank angle sensor. Hoop dit help.
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by Castos »

Thanks man, ek is oppad soontoe met my laptop. Sal daar kyk en laat weet.
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by Toybox »

Bennie I think you're right on the money, check for a rpm signal on the laptop. Then I would go through the wiring to the coil. Double check that the relays are wired correctly and clicking over for the initial 3 second 'prime'.
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by Castos »

Toybox wrote:Bennie I think you're right on the money, check for a rpm signal on the laptop. Then I would go through the wiring to the coil. Double check that the relays are wired correctly and clicking over for the initial 3 second 'prime'.
You guys are on the ball!!! She runs!!!! Bennie and all who helped with info, thanks!!! :thumbup:

We had 2 wires wrongly connected on the coil and the vacuum pipe on the MAP had a leak? Laughted my ass of for the guy from Spitronics (Must say their service is brilliant, he came from his house to help us, no charge). He was putting in some carb cleaner and with the timing being wrong one big BANG his pants was on fire :lol: from sitting on the motor.

O ja, this is the first 3RZ running on a Spitronics in the country, and for all matter in the world. :clap:

My truck will be deliver on wednesday, all we need now is a air temp sensor, airintake pipe madeup and the exchaust changed.
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by Family_Dog »

Reynard, that sounds great! Please take some detailed photos when you get her back, this is a conversion worth doing, the 2.7i is a great motor and should match the SFA beautifully. You're going to experience the best of both worlds!


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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by Castos »

Thanks Eric,

I promise, I'll take as many photots as possible of what ever you want to see. :D

Now my next headache is, we are not able to get a exhaust flange. Toyota dealers can't help neither the exhaust places. So I'm looking at putting on a branch. What brand do I need to stay away from? I'm waiting for quote on a brospeed.
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by BenHur »

Castos wrote: What brand do I need to stay away from?
Any brand of branch if you can help it. Cant the guys building custom exhausts build you a flange Cant be that difficult. Anyone in the area doing laser cutting can also cut one for you from say 10-15mm plate and the the kzaust guys can weld the runner pipes to it.
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by Castos »

EK is seker hulle kan. Sal maandag kyk en besluit. Die probleem dink ek is dat dit saterdag oggend was in die slowveld. Dinge gebeur nie so vinnig hier nie.
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by 3RZ »

Het jy die header gedeelte wat teen die head vasbout ? Ek het op my vorige 2.7 die gedeelte vanaf die flange vervang met twee pype wat onder by chassis bymekaarkom ipv by die flange, dit gee jou presies dieselfde performance as die afternarket branches. Vir lowdown torque soek jy lang seconderies. Cheetah exhaust in PTA het vir my die flange en secondaries gebou.
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by BenHur »

My exhaust is nie geskuif regs nie ek het 2 pype wat vanaf die manifold loop onderdeur de ratkas tot aan die linker kant en daar is die collektor, baaaie meer horses onderlangs
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by Cookie Monster »

Cant wait to see when it is finished :thumbup:
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Re: 2.4 to 2.7i My storie

Post by Castos »

3RZ wrote:Het jy die header gedeelte wat teen die head vasbout ? Ek het op my vorige 2.7 die gedeelte vanaf die flange vervang met twee pype wat onder by chassis bymekaarkom ipv by die flange, dit gee jou presies dieselfde performance as die afternarket branches. Vir lowdown torque soek jy lang seconderies. Cheetah exhaust in PTA het vir my die flange en secondaries gebou.
Thanks man, ek sal dit so deur gee vir die manne.

Bennie, waar kry jy die AIT van die camry? By 'n spares shop, scrapyard of dealer?
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