Upgrading Brakes on SFA

DOELLOOS · Post by **DOELLOOS** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:05 am

How do I upgrade the brakes on my Hilux? I want ventilated discs up front, and normal discs at the back. Has anyone done this? and is it recommended?

Post by **Family_Dog** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:20 pm

I was looking at an advert in (I think...) the CAR magazine just yesterday, and wondering whether there would be an improvement in upgrading the brakes. Not sure who the advert referred to, but Wingate in JHB should be able to give good advice.

-F_D

Bosvark · Post by **Bosvark** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:24 pm

in some of the 4x4 books they advertise a new disk with grooves in it.works for downhill travel,check some of the books out,i'll have a look at home the weekend and post it monday

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:06 pm

I fitted a set of disks and pads from Powerbrakes. Check out there website at:http://www.powerbrake.co.za/pages/kits_allterrain.htm

I received the attached mail from a guy I met on another forum:

Hi Benjamin, sorry haven't been on line for a while,

The Cruizer FJ75 vented discs fits straight onto the hub, you'll have to split your calliper and make 4x 8mm shims from aluminium to widen the callipers, this you can make at home except for the o-ring recess that has to be milled. Alternative; 2.7 Hilux calipers will bolt straight on.

The Brake Master Cylinder is off an Isuzu, it fitted straight onto the booster's
4 holes and is available as a pirate part at larger stores, I rotated the reservoir, but the pipes fitted perfect and they are opposite side. Make sure the piston diameter is smaller than yours I think it was 7/8"

On the rear the 2.7 drums must be fitted complete with the backing plates, both import and local diff units are available. The pipes and cables fit straight on.

I stayed with the solid disks as I do not have space inside the rim to expand the callipers. I already have a 8 mm spacer just to make the mag clear the calliper so If I wanted to widen the caliper I would need a different rim (maybe 16"). But after my Powerbrake set-up in front I am more than happy with my breaking, and I do not think it will be worth my money to go any further N14x4 was the only guys who had the rear break assembly available at the time I enquired buy they wanted R 1800 per side.

In your case with the Turbo it might be a different story and you might need to do the smaller diameter master cylinder for higher brake line pressure and the 2.7i (IFS) rear brakes which is apparently using 7 mm (IIRC) wider brake shoes.

TopHilux Hilton · Post by **TopHilux Hilton** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:16 pm

There was a guy at Rust de winter with a 99Hilux modded with SFA conversion. He had Discs in the back too...

Bennie, kan jy onthou...? Die jong laaitie wat Superman gedoen het...

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:25 pm

TopHilux Hilton wrote:There was a guy at Rust de winter with a 99Hilux modded with SFA conversion. He had Discs in the back too...

Bennie, kan jy onthou...? Die jong laaitie wat Superman gedoen het...

Was dit nie 'n Surf gewees met die kort gemaakte gat nie :?

Cookie Monster · Post by **Cookie Monster** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 6:45 am

I think that the brakes on a SFA are most probly its weekest point and comming from driving BMW`s all the time to the coast to a stop style of the SFA was difficult

to say the least I had my brakes redone at a local "brake expert" although I dont know why as I dont think he was a expert of anything he buggered up the rear brakes which I have had to back of till I have had the time to strip the shoes my self and sort it out with the effect is I dont have very efective rear brakes and no hand brake :evil: :evil:

The front pull up fine but in a emergancy situation she just locks the front up and keeps sailing on so to speek :!:

TopHilux Hilton · Post by **TopHilux Hilton** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:23 am

benhur wrote:
TopHilux Hilton wrote:There was a guy at Rust de winter with a 99Hilux modded with SFA conversion. He had Discs in the back too...

Bennie, kan jy onthou...? Die jong laaitie wat Superman gedoen het...
Was dit nie 'n Surf gewees met die kort gemaakte gat nie :?

Nee dit was nie n Surf nie,dit was n DC, maar die gat was wel korter gemaak.

Post by **Family_Dog** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:50 pm

The Hilux probably has a "Load Compensating Valve" or whatever it is called, which should balance braking efforts between the front & rear brakes according to the load carried in the 'bak'.

Before I fitted the OME suspension, I need only touch my brake pedal and the front brakes locked, although over-all braking was quite good. After having done the suspension lift, the front lifted higher than the rear, and the brakes has an entirely different feel, requiring much more pedal effort to stop. The front brakes no longer lock up. When I asked the suspension fitters about adjusting the load compensating valve to accommodate the extra lift, I was met with blank stares - DUH!.

Maybe one of our more knowledgeable writers here could do a short article on how to adjust this valve, with pictures, please!

-F_D

Post by **Family_Dog** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:14 pm

BOSVARK wrote:in some of the 4x4 books they advertise a new disk with grooves in it.works for downhill travel,check some of the books out,i'll have a look at home the weekend and post it monday

In the October edition of CAR, there is a Powerbrake advert on page 211. This is probably the one you are referring to, a disk with grooves.

http://www.powerbrake.co.za
Telephone: 012 - 998-0214

There is also an advert from Astrobrake, Tel: 011-826-7000

-F_D

Cookie Monster · Post by **Cookie Monster** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:29 pm

I agree with FD it would be a great help to have that info

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:37 pm

Family_Dog wrote:
BOSVARK wrote:
http://www.powerbrake.co.za

-F_D

This is the brakes that I have posted about on top. I can recommend it.

leonbrink · Post by **leonbrink** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:50 pm

I definitely also have to do something about my brakes. With the recent rains that started again I was once again reminded to have much bigger following distances (for other road users to take advantage of).
My left rear wheel has the tendency to lock up. Wish there were a relatively easy way to fix the issues with SFA brakes.

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:19 pm

Leon

Vat 'n streepsak en maak hom vol rivier sand en sit dit agterop. Soos dit reÃ«n sal hy swaarder raak van die water en die agterwiele afdruk.

Nee ernstig nou, het jy al met daai load sensor ding gespeel. EK het een Saterdag middag besluit om die agter brieke te tackle Na so so twee of drie keer se stel en ry het ek hom gewen. Nou sleep my agterwiele nie meer nie.

Post by **Family_Dog** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:25 pm

Family_Dog wrote:The Hilux probably has a "Load Compensating Valve" or whatever it is called, which should balance braking efforts between the front & rear brakes according to the load carried in the 'bak'.

Maybe one of our more knowledgeable writers here could do a short article on how to adjust this valve, with pictures, please!

-F_D

Psssttt, Bennie... that last sentence now refers to "you!"

-F_D

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:25 pm

Cant believe you atually had me crawling under the Hilux to take pictures just now. Maar ek sal later die artikel doen.

Post by **Family_Dog** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:36 pm

Thanks, Ben!

I *know* about things like this, but have no idea where the valve is or how to adjust it. Seems many garages are just as much in the dark as I am! :evil:

-F_D

Sifu-Lux · Post by **Sifu-Lux** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:09 pm

Attached is a pic of the load proportining valve from a photo I had on file.

It is attached to the rear axle and apportions more hydraulic pressure to the rear brakes the more you load the bak. As the body lowers on the suspension under load the arm connecting the valve to the axle changes angle and adjusts the rear brake bias.

When I bled my brakes, I also bled this valve at its bleed nipple. In my case a lot of crap came out here.

Post by **Family_Dog** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:32 pm

Thanks Andrew, no wonder I could never find it! I was always looking in the wrong place

I think I should probably bleed it as well, although the Brake Fluid was changed about 18 months ago.

This is truly a great forum: We learn so much about our vehicles from other knowledgeable members.

Ben, this doesn't let you off the hook, see? I still want a pic by pic guide :)

-F_D

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:47 pm

Andrew

If you do not mind I am going to plagiarise your pic into my article.

Sifu-Lux · Post by **Sifu-Lux** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:56 pm

Not at all :D

If only every problem could be solved with a Forum...

Looking forward to your report

leonbrink · Post by **leonbrink** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:44 am

I scanned in the pages in my manual. You guys can download it here:
http://www.outdoor-online.net/hilux/LoadSensing.pdf

EDIT: Changed the file to a cleaner, smaller one. Dankie Bennie.

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:52 am

Sifu-Lux wrote:Not at all :D

Looking forward to your report

Here it is:

viewtopic.php?f=34&t=690

Post by **Family_Dog** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:50 am

leonbrink wrote:I scanned in the pages in my manual. You guys can download it here:
http://www.outdoor-online.net/hilux/LoadSensing.pdf

EDIT: Changed the file to a cleaner, smaller one. Dankie Bennie.

Leon,

This is very useful, thanks!

I wonder where one finds a workshop suitably equipped to do this properly? I'm sure this accounts for most of the reports of Hilux's with modified suspensions not having very good braking systems.

-F_D

Post by **Family_Dog** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:16 am

Bennie,

This is great! Thank you for a very well-written and informative article.

Thanks to Leon as well, for providing the pdf Manual information.

-F_D

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 4:43 pm

And thank you Erik for posting the link to the website where I downloaded the manual from which I extracted the section that Leon posted

Sifu-Lux · Post by **Sifu-Lux** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:01 pm

Bennie, I found this article in my archive of web surfed info:

November '98 - Increasing Rear Brakes
By: Chris Geiger - geiger@off-road.com

One of the first things I noticed after I purchased my truck is that it took a fair amount of brake effort to get the truck to stop. I also found through testing that the rear brakes did very little to help slow the truck down. I estimate that about 90% of the work was done by the front breaks and only about 10% was done by the rear.
Later on I lifted the truck and was careful to add a drop bracket to the proportioning valve rod to make sure I kept the brakes working correctly. The brake arm is a device that tells the proportion valve how much weight the truck is carrying with the idea that the heavier the rear end of the truck the more rear braking you need.
The arm effectively measures the weight of the truck by measuring the amount of rear spring compression. One end of the arm is mounted to a valve on the frame of the truck. The other end is attached to the axle. The more weight you put in the truck the closer the frame is to the axle so the proportioning valve sends more of the braking effort to the rear brakes.
When you lift a truck and don't include a drop bracket for the sensing arm you tricking it into thinking the rear of you truck weighs less then it does and proportioning valve responds by sending more brake effort to the front so at the very least you must raise the arm with a bracket the same amount as the lift you are installing.
Another problem I found is that when setting up my rear axle for more articulation the valve is given false information about the weight of the truck. When the left rear wheel is compressed the rear brakes are doing their job But when the left wheel drops and the right wheel is compressed such as when driving over a rock the valve responds by releasing the rear brakes. That is a bad thing.
After much testing I found that on my truck that the rear brakes work best if the arm is always in the full up position. This simulates a full load at all times and the proportion valve always sends ample pressure to the rear breaks. This works so well that it eliminated any ideas I had about converting to rear disks brakes. I ended up cutting the arm off at the valve and tying it up with a large wire tie. Some day I may replace the proportion valve all together with an after market race unit, but it's working real well for me now.
It's very important to have more work done by the front brakes than the rear. If the rear brakes lock up before the front the truck becomes unstable and spin out of control. During testing I removed the rear valve altogether and replumbed the rear brake to work with out a proportioning valve at all. I found that on wet pavement that the rear end of the truck would slide and cause an unrecoverable spin to occur. I did this test several times in a large parking lot, sure was fun!
I would suggest extensive testing on wet pavement after any adjustment of the brake arm to make sure that the front breaks lockup first and the rear breaks don't lock up unless you continue to press on the peddle. You may find that placing the valve arm all the way to the top may provide too much brake pressure to the rear brakes and a lesser adjust may be ideal especially for lighter in the rear pickup trucks. An alternative to cutting off the arm is to disconnect it from the axle and use a drop down bracket to attach the arm to the frame of the truck, adjusting the position of the arm for the desired amount of rear brake pressure.

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:12 am

Sjoe, removing the LSPV altogether is a bit extreme. It has a purpose. If you remove the arm connected to the axle all together and get the bias right so that the wheels brake just at the correct rate when the vehicle is unladen , you are not going to have effective brakes when carrying a load, which might be a bit dangerous. It is not that difficult to get it working right again after your suspension mod as I showed in my article.

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:36 am

Getting back to the front brakes (PUN intended) I installed the Powerbrake All-Terrain setup in front as mentioned earlier http://www.powerbrake.co.za/pages/kits_allterrain.htm. On my stock disks I had 2 problems. Even before I installed the Supra engine I knew I had to look at the brakes later on. They tend to retain the heat in them vary long so after a bit of high speed driving (at 140-150km/h+) and then the brakes fade away and you start smelling the compound burning when you stop. They pads also glazed and started damaging the disks in front so I started to experience judder when applying brakes at high speed.

At the time I had to replace swivel hub bearings on my Lux I decided to sommer do the brakes at the same time. The did supply me with the disks but did not have stock on the pads and I could not wait 2 weeks so installed the disks and got a set of Ferrodo Platinum/Premium, but I can remember which one, on recommendation of the guy at Powerbrake. he was very explicit to use the one and not the other but for the life of me I can not remember which one it was.

After bedding in the brakes (slow frustrating 300kms) I was surprised to see how much my braking ability improved. All the sudden I had the confidence to drive on the Ben Schoeman in traffic at 130-140km/h without having to keep 20 car spaces between you and every on in front or next to you for fear that the brakes would pull the vehicle all over the show when you had to stop suddenly.

DOELLOOS · Post by **DOELLOOS** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:16 pm

I think I will have to go for some sort of modification here, as ventilated discs is a must have on my van. The cruiser ventilated discs with 2700i calipers seems to be a good option. I will have to check for clearances though.

But before I do any more work on my van, I first just want to drive it for a bit... it's been two months since it went in for the changes... I am now told that I will have it back next week.

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 4:59 pm

You must definitively come and take me for a spin when you get her back

Post by **Family_Dog** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:46 pm

But before I do any more work on my van, I first just want to drive it for a bit... it's been two months since it went in for the changes... I am now told that I will have it back next week.

It's easy to suffer from withdrawal symptoms when you've not driven it for a while, eh?

-F_D

DOELLOOS · Post by **DOELLOOS** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:37 pm

You have no idea....

The seven year itch doesn't even come close...

Bullet · Post by **Bullet** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:28 am

do any of you guys know if the Cruiser FJ 75 calipers fit straight to the sfa(the two bolts that secure the calipers to the vehicle)

DOELLOOS · Post by **DOELLOOS** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:03 am

No, I don't think so. You have to use 2.7i discs. As far as I know.

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 3:52 pm

The FJ75 disks is a straight fit onto the SFA axle but since the ventilated disk is 8mm thicker than the solid SFA disk you have to strip you calliper in half and make 8mm spacers to fit in between your SFA's calliper to make up the 8mm difference.

Perhaps we can get one of the Capies to Talk to Allan Venter and see if they can get pics from him on this mod, I know he has done it before on his Lux that had a 7MGTE in.

Post by **CasKru** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:47 pm

Perhaps we can get one of the Capies to Talk to Allan Venter and see if they can get pics from him on this mod, I know he has done it before on his Lux that had a 7MGTE in.

Yes please!

Bullet · Post by **Bullet** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:31 pm

Thanks , will probably do the conversion this week if I receive the spares in time, will let u know if I was successful

Charlie Brown · Post by **Charlie Brown** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 6:13 pm

Want to upgrade brakes to discs all round. Fron all previous discussions, what do you guys think works the best? Solid discs or 2700i vented discs?

I'm also toying with the idea of a disc and caliper fitted to the prop shaft as a handbrake. Any comments?

Charlie Brown

Post by **pietpetoors** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:45 am

Charlie, Is saw this link in another post just now, but cannot find the post again, so have a look at
http://allprooffroad.com/index.php?opti ... view&id=33