Installation of cole hersee solenoid

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BaasJo
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Installation of cole hersee solenoid

Post by BaasJo »

Dag Manne,

Help asseblief.
I am installing a cole hersee solenoid between my main and aux battery.
Now I need power to the solenoid to close it when ignition is turned on.
From where can I tap it? All points in the main fuse box seem to have power even when ignition is off.

Thanks
Jo

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Re: Installation of cole hersee solenoid

Post by ChrisF »

I picked up the signal inside the cab - from the lighter. The signal wire exits via the grommit in the photo below -

it also shows the relay -
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Re: Installation of cole hersee solenoid

Post by BaasJo »

Dagsê Chris, so daar is nie plek om te tap onder die enjinkap nie?
Ek sal dan maar ook draad aanlê binnetoe, baie dankie.
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Re: Installation of cole hersee solenoid

Post by ChrisF »

gee n bietjie kans - moontlik het een van die manne hier n plek gekry. Dit was net vir my die maklikste gewees.
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Re: Installation of cole hersee solenoid

Post by george »

As ek reg onthou het my vorige bakkie dit van die alternator gekry.Hoppy het dit nog gedoen.Daar was 'n rede kan net nie onthou nie.Die volgende een was ook van die sigaret aansteker en die huidige is 'n National Luna system.
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Re: Installation of cole hersee solenoid

Post by Mud Dog »

As dit nou 'n petrol model was, was dit eenvoudig (tap af van die coil feed), maar met diesel is miskien die alternator 'n oplossing.
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Re: Installation of cole hersee solenoid

Post by Stephan_V »

Hi

To open up an old question and one probably answered since...

Where can you tap power that will not connect the cole hersee while the starter is turning.

It seems like the cigaret lighter will do this. It seems when the ignition is turned on it has power. Power goes off while the key is in the starting position and back on when its left to return to the ignition on position.

Only problem the ch will be on when the key is turned to the first click.

Any other places that will achieve activating the soliniod when the started is not turning?
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Re: Installation of cole hersee solenoid

Post by Mud Dog »

You could wire it so that it's a manual switching with a toggle switch / rocker switch (with LED indicator) inside the cab. With the LED indicator type you will see when it's on or off. The advantage of doing it this way is that you can open or close the circuit to the 2nd battery at any time that you wish.
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Re: Installation of cole hersee solenoid

Post by Stephan_V »

Hi,

Thanks Andy, yes good idea. I will add one even if I get one from a source linked to the ignition. I just need to think if I will remember to switch it off if I go all manual.
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Re: Installation of cole hersee solenoid

Post by Obelix and Dogmatix »

Morning, under the engine hood you will be able to find a switched 12V from the loom that go's to the wiper motor. Just use a pin to pierce the wire when checking this way you leave the insulation mostly intact until you find the right wire. If you are not in to much of a hurry I can check to night on mine which wire it is.
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Re: Installation of cole hersee solenoid

Post by Mud Dog »

I just need to think if I will remember to switch it off if I go all manual.
That's why you should use a rocker switch with a LED indicator so that you can see the lit LED when it's on.

I wired mine directly off the battery (with appropriate in-line fuses) so that I could open / close the circuit without the key in ignition. The reason why I did this is because my 2nd battery is a stand alone installation that get's charged with a solar panel (semi-permanently mounted on the canopy roof). This allows me to charge the main battery if I need to while the vehicle stands locked up - it also allows me to use the 2nd battery as a 'jumper' if I find the main battery to be low after a period of non use - I can also choose to use the alternator for supplying charge to the 2nd battery when for example I have the freezer going and travelling at night.

Doing it this way just made so much more practical sense to me. :winkx:
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Re: Installation of cole hersee solenoid

Post by Stephan_V »

Thanks Andy, yes agreed it adds a lot of functionality and with the led you should be able to breach the forgetting aspect.

Obelix thanks for the offer. Im not in a hurry. Will only get this done over the weekend. That being said I am leaning towords the manual set up so I would not want to make you any trouble.
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Re: Installation of cole hersee solenoid

Post by Mud Dog »

Here's a very rough sketch of how I set mine up. Fuses are important - put the 30A fuses in the main feed as close to each battery as is practically possible and the 5A fuse close to the solenoid.

The rocker will have 3 terminals, one will be the live supply, another the switched live feed and the third will be to ground the LED in the rocker. If after connecting the LED stays permanently lit, switch the connections between the feed and supply. :winkx:

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Re: Installation of cole hersee solenoid

Post by DeonV »

Jo, the easiest way you could have gone for a little more money was if you bought the cole hersee system from 4x4 Meaga World. It has a controller on switching power to your second battery five minutes after engine startup. I installed this system more than a year ago and no problems yet, main thing is that your main battery is safe from being drawn flat and no extra switches is necessary to isolate the dual system. This system can also be switched on or off via the monitor installed inside the cab. I installed this system myself in less than an hour, cables to the loadbin for second battery included.
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Re: Installation of cole hersee solenoid

Post by ChrisF »

Apologies for going slightly off topic -


PLEASE ensure you use the correct system for "YOUR" needs.

Few basics to bear in mind :

Type of battery - connecting two batteries in parallel with a "switch" (be it a solenoid or manual switch) works for two lead acid batteries in parallel. And even then only when both are close to each other, ie both in the engine bay. Move one battery to the rear of the vehicle and you have a voltage drop that will impact on the state of charge of the second battery.
IF your second battery is a deep cycle you NEED a peak of 14,5V to ensure a full charge, higher than most alternators can cope with. Thus you need more than a "switch".
IF you have another type of battery DO check with the supplier what peak charge voltage is required ..... (some conflicting information out there on this)


IF your battery is in the back of the vehicle, OR if you use a deep cycle battery as your second battery PLEASE do consider using a "DC-to-DC" charger (this raises the alternator voltage to ensure the 14,5V peak charge voltage)

PS - I keep on using the term PEAK voltage, as the battery only needs this very high voltage at the end of the charge cycle


The downside of the dc-2-dc approach is that this does not allow using the 2nd battery as a back-up to the first battery if needed ....



now if things are not "clear as mud" just yet .... things DO get more interesting when you want to add a solar charging system ...... But there are enough other threads about this.



final comment - I know two applications of a marine rotary switch, to control power to and from a second battery - both worked perfectly for many many years - both a second standard lead-acid battery in the engine bay. Both these guys had less issues than most of us with our fancy deep cycle systems ...
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Re: Installation of cole hersee solenoid

Post by Stephan_V »

Andy/Chris thanks for the info much appreciated

Deon thanks for the heads up. I will keep it in mind

Chris at the moment I run a high cycle in a batery box. The mediun to long term plan would be to add the cteck or hsdp to the batery box. (One of the reasons I do not want to use an nl solenoid as it will not work with the dc to dc).

At the moment I have pretty thick cables running to the back. Actually a little too thick, not very workable. I then have a 12v trip switch from 4x4direct i use to manually disconnect when I stop. With the bakkie running, battery and fridge at the back connected my voltage drop is something like .05. I measure about 13.5 on the main batery and 13.45 at the back. That being said the alternator as is will not properly charge a batery other than the high cycle. ( in my opinion)

I have found it ok for now but I need to fully charge the second batery with the benton when i get home.

The reason for adding the ch switch is to take out the manual connect and disconnect until I have dc to dc and i liked the idea of being able to switch power at the back off completely so i figured the even with the dc to dc i would atill like to have it.
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Re: Installation of cole hersee solenoid

Post by ChrisF »

Stephan you are pretty much describing my initial system.

and it worked fine for the typical weekend trip.

Then a three week trip in peak summer to Kgalagadi and Namibia .... OUCH !!! The alternator simply could not charge the battery properly. After that trip the battery had been fully drained more than once and had to be thrown away.


One of the cheapest high quality solutions today is the 12A unit from HcDP - http://www.4x4direct.co.za/batteries-an ... -p-566.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


This unit even allows solar charging - though this switch-over has to be done manually. The two automatic switch-over solutions are "pretty expensive" ......



short of spending so much money - cole-hersey solenoid for normal charging, AND a 220V charger to use in camp at least every second or third day. BUT a decent 220V charger costs no less than the 12A HcDP unit ..... seems there is no way out of spending a load of money .....
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Re: Installation of cole hersee solenoid

Post by DeonV »

I can say with certainty that the system I installed works perfectly if you don't stay over for more than one night. I did the Namaqua Eco Route last year, stopping to set up camp at 16:00 and then departing at ten after breakfast and not once had any issues with any of the two batteries. My deep cycle is a 105Ah battery with a monitoring system and it never went below the low check line on the monitor. This trip was done over a period of two weeks and I had frozen meat and ice cold beers every single day, everybody knows what extreme temperatures is reached in that area and still the 60L ARB coped pretty well I would say.
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Re: Installation of cole hersee solenoid

Post by Stef »

This is almost a bigger debate than the current social media frenzy over the racism saga :mocking:

Had a discussion recently about whether one should use a DC - DC for a deep cycle in the rear. Our consulting engineer for UPS systems reckon 14.5V is not necessary, battery will just charge for longer. Megaworld experts and battery retailers were adamant that one should buy a DC-DC...for obvious reasons hehe. But no one could explain why NL would sell the solenoid DB system and not a DC-DC setup. :D:

No argument a DC-DC setup is better ito charging cycles etc especially for a deep cycle battery. Personally I think the NL system was intended for a lead acid setup as there is a winch override switch on mine. The system in my bakkie is also rigged with 50mm cables between the batteries so one could use both batteries for the winch and as a backup to start the engine. (done by previous owner)
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Re: Installation of cole hersee solenoid

Post by ChrisF »

Stef certainly safer to answer on this thread rather than "other social media" threads .....

Some advantages of a dc-dc system:
- it can provide the higher final charging voltages that a deep cycle require (attend cources on alterrgative power and battery systems and you will see some realworld values for the different battery types, required for proper charging, AND for proper float maintenance charge rates ... These suppliers DO check the data logs to ensure the correct values were used before entertaining any warantee claims ... so YES, there are some hard data out there about what is required for proper charging and proper maintenance)

- more importantly it LIMITS the charging current !!! A flat battery will take all the charge an alternator will throw its way. Ironically this is why it may be better to use a 6 or 10mm2 wire for a battery system, to actually limit the charging curret .... but this is a whole new hot topic ....


I would guess the NL system pre-dates deep cycle batteries .....
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Re: Installation of cole hersee solenoid

Post by Johan Kriel »

ChrisF wrote:Stef certainly safer to answer on this thread rather than "other social media" threads .....

Agree, some experts only think they know something, and then they are quit aggressive if you catch them out. :shh:

Ek gebruik beide sisteme, maar op my toerkar glo ek maar die DC to DC laaier. Die laat die battery net soveel beter sy werk doen. n 90l plus 25l yskas in die Kaokoveld Desember werk n batery se gal maar ek het nog nooit n issue gehad nie, inteendeel ek maak die poeding koud altyd vir Kersfees :D:

n Man het nie genoeg tyd daar om n 'deepcycle' met n alternater te laai nie, hy is vrek n 3 dae. By gese ek het n n 90Ah AGM battery en natuurlik die 150 watt solars vir die dag as ek nie ry nie.
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Re: Installation of cole hersee solenoid

Post by Stef »

Stem 100% saam :thumbup:

Self ook nie antwoorde gehad nie toe ek gevra is wat se verskil 0.5V gaan maak nie ...LOL ..Al wat ek weet is dat daar charging cycles is en ek het 'n deep cycle verloor agv die NL sisteem; sonder 'n behoorlike laaier "bulk charge" mens net sonder enige beskerming itv stroom/temp.

My opset is tans die NL sisteem met 'n AC Delco "truck battery" en 50mm kabels tot agter; dus kan ek die winch override gebruik sonder enige probleem.
Van die agterste batt af het ek 10mm kabels tot by die Brad Harrison op die towbar waar my boswa gekoppel word. Tans besig met die installasie, maar die plan is om die toeveoer wat van die bakkie af kom aan die Ctek D250S te Koppel wat op sy beurt die boswa se batt sal laaiery sal hanteer. Het ook 'n 100W solar panel wat ook aan die Ctek gekoppel word. Die Ctek kan net 20A hanteer so die 10mm is meer as voldoende.

Blykbaar kan mens nie die D250S saam met die solenoid gebruik nie nie, maar hopelik met die AC Delco tussen in sal dit nie 'n problem wees nie, anders gaan ek die solenoid moet skuif, want ek ek gaan nie NOG 'n kabel van voor af in trek nie :naah:
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Re: Installation of cole hersee solenoid

Post by Stef »

So iets:

Solar Panel BH
20151230_203057.jpg
Ctek
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Rooi draad van links onder af is wat van bakkie af kom
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