5L TO KZTE or 2.7?

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Hill Billy
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Tue Dec 21, 2010 10:09 am

Doing some research and need to know what I'll be getting into.... :shifty:
I have a donkey 5L with 285k on it - and I want to go a little bit faster....

I'm looking to go KZT(E) or 2.7.
So a few questions:
1. As it is a diesel should I go the KZTE route?
2. Or is it better to leave the electronics and do KZT?
3. What would a conversion to 2.7 entail and would it be a MOJOR hassle?
4. So far it looks like any of these conversions will cost about R25-35K - am I in the ball park or am I way out?
5. I'm trying to get the most for the least amount of money/trouble.

We are not going to sell and buy something else; rather the devil you know.... and I've done a few mods already and will never get the money back on these mods!

I know Floris did an interesting mod and would appreciate it if he can give his 2c worth.
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Tue Dec 21, 2010 10:53 am

SAC low boost turbo conversion is a good opsion.

SAC Centurion is one of the best.

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Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:04 am

The 5L engine does not like turbos, the head will go within weeks. Mate of mine found this out the hard way, and he was not speeding at the time.


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Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:18 am

Thanx

But I'm a little hesitant to drop a turbo on it, as I've been warned, but it would be the cheapest option I think.

Do you have experience with this conversion?
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Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:43 am

Just had an :idea: :
Can you mod the 5L somehow to give you more?
What would the effect be?
Possible Costs?
Last edited by Hill Billy on Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:55 pm

Best would be to calculate what the conversion will cost, multiply by three and see whether it is still a viable option.

Should you decide to go ahead, take the money to be spent on the conversion and sell the current vehicle and use the available funds to BUY something that was manufactured with the engine of your choice; much easier and way quicker!
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Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:39 pm

Hi T
That might seem like a good idea, but to put a cat amongst the pigeons as this is a classic answer (that has merit).... it would be ok if it's a new car that u r getting, but to buy a Turbo-oil-boiler I think might me asking for more trouble. What other probs ($) is going to come to the surface.

That would leave me with only the 2.7 (petrol) option as second-hand. I would thus take the knock to sell the vehicle at a reduced price to buy one at an inflated price, so the conversion money is now taken care of.... now the fixing is going to start as it is with any new 2nd-hand vehicle. Now I know what I have, but want a little bit MORE!!!!
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Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:41 pm

A good condition KZTE engine is going to set you back a bit... probably 17-20K, so a complete conversion would be around 45K[+]. The 3RZ(2.7i) will cost you around 12-15Km with the complete conversion around 40K... you could look at the Mazda WL2 2.5TDi, great engine, the conversion would be around 35K...

Only consider the conversion route if you have enough time, 2 months, enough money, and you are willing to work through the niggles that crop up after the job is done... and yes there are always niggles... like aircon, overheating, wiring routing, sump design, etc...

If your present mods are transferable then I'd much rather buy the right vehicle, like the KZ/2.7... I've met a few guys that opted for the conversion route, only to sell the vehicle soon after cause they got frustrated with the niggles!

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Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:15 am

Hi
I also have a 3000D, have been doing some research for possible mods to increase power or engine replacement, so far everything i thought about just worked out way too expensive or would end up damaging the engine.
you can adjust your diesel pump, but increasing the diesel flow will kill your consumption.
i just made peace with my engine, and it's impressing me more everyday.

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Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:48 pm

Rudolf

Watse verbruik kry jy?
Ek kry 7.7 - 7.3, maak nie saak hoe ek ry nie. Moet my "injectors fix" vir beter verbruik. (As ek Shell VPower gebruik kry ek 8km/l...)

Stem saam met jou, in die bos is dit fantasties. Het a "trail" saam met a klompie LandRovers gaan doen, en ek se jou wat: my 170nm het nerens vir hulle 360nm terug gestaan nie.

Die prob kom in op die snelweg en ander paaie waar jy bo 80km/h ry en verby wil gaan, dit raak bietjie gevaarlik... :blushing:
O ja, end duine werk nie so lekker nie!
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Wed Dec 22, 2010 4:33 pm

ek kry ook so 7.5km op 'n liter as ek mooi ry, gewoonlik met aircon aan,
toe ek my bakkie 'n jaar terug gekoop het was hy maar redelik lui en dood op die snelweg, maar vir een of ander rede het hy baie meer "nippy" geword, ek haal nogal heel gemaklik so 140km/h. enige iets van 80km/h tot 130km/h tel hy redelik vinnig spoed op, soms teen bulte ook :)
ek wil juis binnekort die duine probeer het, maar soos wat ek al geleer het, my bakkie is nie so lief vir die sand nie. maar ek gaan dit nogsteeds probeer, gaan net sorg dat daar een of twee 4x4's en baie vriende saam gaan.

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Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:54 am

if one is going to do a conversion, for all the effort why not go all the way and do a Lexus V8 conversion!!
once done and sorted(like any other conversion) could very well be the last say!!
good fuel consumption!! power on tap!!

just thinking out loud!! :beach:
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Thu Dec 23, 2010 8:19 am

I would LOVE a V8!!!
But don't have 65-100k for that! - (Lexus conversion)

How about a V8 short block... should be cheaper.
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Thu Dec 23, 2010 12:24 pm

What do you guys think of a rebore of the 5L motor?

Can you take the 2986cc to say 3200cc? What would be the pitfalls and costs?
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Thu Dec 23, 2010 1:11 pm

Just got a little bit of schooling --> Thanx Richard (Tokkelos1)

The 2.8d was rebored to get to the 2986cc for the 5L.

Thus I'll have to shelve the rebore issue as there will not be enough material left.
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Thu Dec 23, 2010 1:53 pm

Hoffie,

the best woudl be to keep the engine as is. Toyota brought out a 5L-E motor which had the KZTE pump on it and a management system. That took the 5L power from 65 kw to 71kw.

Now if I were to look at more power, i will go hunting for a 5LE engine complete with pump, ecu's, keys ect and transplant the nessecary stuff to my engine.

Remember that the 5LE motor had the advantage of being chipped as the pump was electronic. I had once driven a chiiped 5LE and it was a lot better than the 65kw 5L motor, not a KZTE but it pulled really well and I could even get it to 150 on the clock on a long level road with ease.
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Thu Dec 23, 2010 1:57 pm

Toro, any idea of the kind of costs involved or possible probs/challenges?
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Thu Dec 23, 2010 2:21 pm

Mr_B wrote:A good condition KZTE engine is going to set you back a bit... probably 17-20K, so a complete conversion would be around 45K[+]. The 3RZ(2.7i) will cost you around 12-15Km with the complete conversion around 40K...you could look at the Mazda WL2 2.5TDi, great engine, the conversion would be around 35K...

Only consider the conversion route if you have enough time, 2 months, enough money, and you are willing to work through the niggles that crop up after the job is done... and yes there are always niggles... like aircon, overheating, wiring routing, sump design, etc...

If your present mods are transferable then I'd much rather buy the right vehicle, like the KZ/2.7... I've met a few guys that opted for the conversion route, only to sell the vehicle soon after cause they got frustrated with the niggles!
Everybody that I know that has gone the MAZDA route, changed to the 3C turbo (+- R22k). The other option is to go the Isuzu route, the imported 3.1TD one, also +-R22k.

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Thu Dec 23, 2010 2:36 pm

IF one puts in a bigger/badder engine do you have to change your diff ratio's or can you keep the ones you have?

What whould the impact be if I kept it as is?

Why do I want to change:
Original Spec : 67kw/4000rpm
SAC Dyno : 44kw/4000rpm

Original Spec : 191nm/2400rpm
SAC Dyno : 171nm/2400rpm

As you can see a big difference.
The fasted I've EVER got it was 138 on gps...
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Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:27 pm

Hill Billy wrote:I would LOVE a V8!!!
But don't have 65-100k for that! - (Lexus conversion)

How about a V8 short block... should be cheaper.

a conversion should not cost that much!!

then a small block V8 will work out prety close to what a lexus V8 will

have done the sums self before!!

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Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:28 pm

Fernando.
That is the price on the forum I've seen guys say that the Lexus conversion costs - in the end... :shock2:
This includes all the other mods like tires, brakes, suspention ect. that they felt was needed to keep that V8 on the road.
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Fri Dec 24, 2010 12:51 am

Hill Billy wrote:Fernando.
That is the price on the forum I've seen guys say that the Lexus conversion costs - in the end... :shock2:
This includes all the other mods like tires, brakes, suspention ect. that they felt was needed to keep that V8 on the road.
in that case yes!! if one starts doing tyres, breaks, suspension, lifts . . . . . . . . . .yes then i can see it coming to that and more, however I dont see those parts as being part of the conversions!!

to me '' tyres, breaks, suspension, lifts . . . . . . . . .'' these items are things that I would of done in any case with time!!
hence why I dont include them in the price!!

will give a personal story!!

self have built a workshop here at home, kitted it out with lots of tools incl a lathe/milling machine(so I can do things the way I want them, when I need them!!), partly to do the conversion, however I dont include those costs to the conversion costs as there will be more uses for every thing way beyond the lexus V8 conversion!!

by the same token
we ride quads and go away, then I could also add the cost of doing the conversion and the workshop to the cost of quadding!! and also the price of the Jeep!!

however will have use of the vehicle(with Lexus) and the workshop way beyond!!

and by the same token as has been said, take the money(100k) sell the vehicle and go get something that does all those things out the box!!
easier said then done!! yep I know, however we recently bough a Jeep WG/WJ V8 that does what we needed the conversion done for!!
worth every cent so far, and no mods required!!

however still going to do the conversion to the Courier (hopefully my life will settle down enough!!) !!
why some might ask??
1. couz I can :twisted:
2. couz I have already done so much planing and cost on most of the parts!! :twisted:
3. couz it will be a much better vehicle with the Lexus V8 then what it is now
4. to me will have much more value!! not necessarily to sell!!

the above is only my point of view, and others may see it different!! :beach: :beach:
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Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:14 am

Fernando

Saw your post on V8 for less than 30k viewtopic.php?f=98&t=11023. How did it work out wrt costs. Were you able to get it within budget? If you were to put a labour costs to it R___ and how many hrs did it take.

What kind of challenges did you have? How do you think the V8 Chev would compare to the Lexus V8 wrt to costs, hassels and performance geared to off-road use: Trails & overlanding?
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Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:33 am

Hill Billy wrote:IF one puts in a bigger/badder engine do you have to change your diff ratio's or can you keep the ones you have?

What whould the impact be if I kept it as is?

Why do I want to change:
Original Spec : 67kw/4000rpm
SAC Dyno : 44kw/4000rpm

Original Spec : 191nm/2400rpm
SAC Dyno : 171nm/2400rpm

As you can see a big difference.
The fasted I've EVER got it was 138 on gps...
Hillbilly,

THe spec that you have from SAC, is measured on the rear wheels in 4th gear on a rolling road dyno. Thus taking into account that it delivers 44 kw on the rear wheels, you can add roughly about 38% (drivetrain, alltitude, Rolling ressistance from tyres ect.) to that figure to get it back to fly wheel power. So in fact you should have close to 61Kw at altitude as tested, so infact your 5L is really delivering good power.

Alse bear in mind that you will lose up to +/- 15% power on the reef. The power Kw reading of 67kw is measured at the flywheel at the coast.

Also 138Km/h on the GPS is about the going rate for a 4x4 D/C Normal aspirated diesel like the 5L. My 4Y was tested in 1990 by CAR SA to only reach a top speed of 143km/h at see level.

So if you ask me, I will rather keep it as it is, knowing it is reliable. Spend the money rather on a safari than changing the engine. Also bear in mind when you cross over to Zambia, Mozambique or other places, you rarely do go faster than 80 on the speedo on a good road.
Johan Marais

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Fri Dec 24, 2010 11:01 am

Thanx Toro

Never thought about it that way! :yahoo:
I see you do ADVENTURES mmmm... "Spend the money rather on a safari than changing the engine".


Richard from BCon4x4 did my Timing Belt this week and it feels much better. :dance1:

I now need to go and have my injectors replaced/fixed @ Boch. :beg:

I'm thinking of taking them out myself - any tips.....? :boss:
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Sat Dec 25, 2010 1:00 am

Hill Billy wrote:Fernando

Saw your post on V8 for less than 30k viewtopic.php?f=98&t=11023. How did it work out wrt costs. Were you able to get it within budget? If you were to put a labour costs to it R___ and how many hrs did it take.

What kind of challenges did you have? How do you think the V8 Chev would compare to the Lexus V8 wrt to costs, hassels and performance geared to off-road use: Trails & overlanding?

we away at the moment, and gave the whole cost Lexus V8 Vs Chevy V8 or Ford V8, will do a whole new post on that as soon as we back and have my file in front of me!!

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Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:49 pm

been back for a few days, just dont find the exact info that I know I have somewhere, and laptop is dead! so maybe its on that hardrive somewhere!!

any case!! did find some info!!


Chev V8 Ford V8

Parts R2000 R2500

do however remember a few other things that I was told by the guys why supply the motors,and will try and remember them!! that the motors that one gets these days coming in almost all come with EFI manifolds, and that the local aftermarket systems can not run these 8s efficently, debaitable, however that is what I was told!!
so one will need to add the price of a manifold and a carb (4 barrel Holley) to the costs

then there might be the cost of a distributor, and a coil for sure!!

if one is using a manual gearbox, then there will be the cost of
1. bellhousing
2. flywheel
3. clutch set up

if one is going with the auto box, then one either has to get a complete unit (motor, gearbox and tranfer case) or one will need to do the conversion to get a seperate transfer case onto that gearbox
keep in mind that a lot of the newer gearboxes are electronic control and that cost and extra work will need to be addressed!!

the newer gearboxes have huge overdrives and hence the fuel consumption is not bad!!
Ford overdrive 27% and Chev 29%

witchever one looks at, the tranfer case, add one on, or use a complete set up, it will involve two new propshafts!! (new props would be advisable)

then there is the cooling system, the cast iron motors produce more heat, and here unlike the lexus V8 dont believe that one will get away with a stock lux radiator, as some have with the Lexus V8!!

then there is the extra cost of engineering with a FordlChev V8s, as with a Lexus V8 one only needs to service it (timing belt, idler pulley bearing, plugs and the rear main crank seal)

that is all that I now remember out of my head!!

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Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:28 pm

Hi I had a turbo charged 5l motor it did not run to bad. I now sit with the problem had a leaking injector on cylinder one and cracked a the piston in the midle cost to rebuild round about R24k. I am looking at doing a conversion not a dam am I putting a lexus v8 in don"t want to brake the drive train and its my every day car so I was thinking to put a na motor in like a new eara camry v6 or a 3l staight 6 from a cresida if i could find one. if any one has an ideal please give me sum feed back please as i work for a performance company and can do alot at work. :beg:

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Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:55 pm

Plenty if info on all the conversions you are interested in. Just do a search here. Hope you have lots of time to read through everything.
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Hill Billy
Low Range 4WD
Low Range 4WD
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:27 pm
Town: Johannnesburg
Vehicle: Hilux 3000D
Real Name: Hoffie
Location: Fourways

Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:37 am

Reviving an old thread - cool!!!
I went for the KZT but kept the mechanical fuel pump, to much trouble to move it all to electronic.
I have a few issues but we are sorting as we go. Now the money had stopped so the big waiting has started...
Hill Billy
Hilux 3000D
MIKEM Suspension
And Other STUFF

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