Weber retroject as EFI option?

Post questions, advice and pictures of Engine conversions here
Post Reply
User avatar
Sven
Low Range 4WD
Low Range 4WD
Posts: 169
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:06 pm
Town: Nelspruit
Vehicle: '89 Hilux DC
Real Name: Sven

Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:30 pm

So a quick random search and I came across a Weber retroject throttle body that basically is a direct replacement for a Weber carb (38 Dgas in my case) that has every linkage and design of the Weber 38 that is an EFI system. I find this pretty brilliant as an option for the sake of solo ventures in the bush, I could quite literally keep my old carb in a little box and if any electronics did go bonkers I could go EFI to carb in probably less then an hour. I guess the biggest challenge is getting it to SA
'89 hilux D/C SFA, import spec.4YImageImageImage

User avatar
Mud Dog
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 28328
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:18 am
Town: East London
Vehicle: '90 SFA Hilux DC 4X4, Full OME, 110mm lift. Brospeed branch, 50mm ss freeflow exhaust. 30 x 9.5 Discoverer S/T's on Viper mags. L/R tank. (AWOL) '98 LTD 2.4 SFA, dual battery system. Dobinson suspension, LR tanks, 31" BF mud's.
Real Name: Andy

Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:10 am

You would have to install an adjustable pressure regulator so that you could reduce the pressure once the carb is re-fitted. Not doing so would result in the pressure being too high for the float to be able to keep the needle valve closed, which would result in flooding. Otherwise it sounds like a good option.

I also just have to wonder that since injection will take place before the manifold, does it have just one injector? or maybe two? and how is it / are they pulsed? Will an after market ECU have provision for only one or two injectors (this is an unusual way of doing it), or will one have to link all the injector wires to the same injector / split them over two injectors - and then would the feed back through the linked cables have an effect on the ECU? Hmmmm ...... :think:

Before committing to that conversion, I would first verify how many injectors in the system and if less than 4 verify if a locally available after market ECU can accept that.
When your road comes to an end ...... you need a HILUX!.

Image
Image

Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers ... what you do today, might burn your ass tomorrow.
Don't take life too seriously ..... no-one gets out alive.
It's not about waiting for storms to pass. It's about learning to dance in the rain.
And be yourself ..... everyone else is taken!

User avatar
Sven
Low Range 4WD
Low Range 4WD
Posts: 169
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:06 pm
Town: Nelspruit
Vehicle: '89 Hilux DC
Real Name: Sven

Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:18 am

So there are 2 injectors inside the throttle body I guess acting the same way as what a carb would. I also wondered about the ecu part with it probably having to be synchronized. there is so little information on the internet about it though.
If they did decide to market it properly it could be a very interesting option for older vehicles like the Ford essex and so forth.

As for the refitting carb, I guess the regulator is the best option, but perhaps just keeping a mechanical pump aswell for trips
'89 hilux D/C SFA, import spec.4YImageImageImage

User avatar
Family_Dog
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 12715
Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 10:09 am
Town: Klerksdorp
Vehicle: Hilux DC SFA, Hilux 2.7 DC, Hilux 2.7 SC, Prado 95 VX
Real Name: Eric
Club VHF Licence: HC101
Location: Klerksdorp, NW
Contact:

Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:37 am

Rather than go that way, I would suggest rather keep a spare ECU, Igniter & HP Fuel pump if you feel the necessity. Little else can go wrong with the system.


-F_D
Image

White Fang: 1999 2.7i DC Raider 4x4
Bull Dog: 1987 4Y-EFI 2.2 DC 4x4
Pra Dog: 1998 Prado VX 3.4
Hound Dog: 2000 2.7i SC 4x4


One Staffie, One Jack Russell, One Ring Neck Screecher, 17 Fish of questionable heritage


Image

webconuk
Newbie
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:43 pm
Town: Sunbury
Vehicle: None
Real Name: Martin

Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:07 pm

Hello. Just came across this thread, and as the manufacturer of Retroject, thought perhaps we could shed a little light on what it does. As has been stated, its a direct replacement for the Weber 32/36 or 38/38, so if you are replacing one of those, then Retroject will fit to the existing manifold, linkage and air filter. It comes with 2 x Weber 480cc/m PICO injectors, air temp sensor, 3 bar regulator, TPS and IACV. You will need an ECU, which just needs to be a simple fuelling ECU and if you take a speed signal from the coil then you wont need to fit a trigger disk, and lastly you just need an HP fuel supply. Any questions, please just le us know

User avatar
Mud Dog
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 28328
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:18 am
Town: East London
Vehicle: '90 SFA Hilux DC 4X4, Full OME, 110mm lift. Brospeed branch, 50mm ss freeflow exhaust. 30 x 9.5 Discoverer S/T's on Viper mags. L/R tank. (AWOL) '98 LTD 2.4 SFA, dual battery system. Dobinson suspension, LR tanks, 31" BF mud's.
Real Name: Andy

Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:33 pm

Welcome Martin and thanks for the info. :thumbup:
When your road comes to an end ...... you need a HILUX!.

Image
Image

Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers ... what you do today, might burn your ass tomorrow.
Don't take life too seriously ..... no-one gets out alive.
It's not about waiting for storms to pass. It's about learning to dance in the rain.
And be yourself ..... everyone else is taken!

Mars
LR4WD, Lockers, Crawler Gears
LR4WD, Lockers, Crawler Gears
Posts: 1201
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 12:33 pm
Town: Pretoria
Vehicle: Toyota Hilux 3lt D4D DC 4X4
Real Name: Marnus

Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:56 am

This really sounds like a great solution. In Europe the first fuel injection Golfs came out with a similar injection system with the main difference being that the throttle body had just one injector. I used such a setup on a Porsche Spyder RSK kit car that I built and it works well. The only issue is with the turbo charger the one 800cc injector is working over 90% of duty cycle so it does not last leaving you with a single point of failure. Using two injectors is a great idea as it reduces the load (which would not be as much on a normally aspitated engine to begin with) giving you the reliability you need. Any entry level go-tech or spitronics will work well.

webconuk
Newbie
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:43 pm
Town: Sunbury
Vehicle: None
Real Name: Martin

Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:18 pm

Mars. Actually a lot of cars in Europe had a single point injection system as a stop gap solution between carburettors and multipoint injection. Bosch, Marelli and Delco all had systems and they were universally terrible, mainly due to the duty cycle issue you mention, but at the time the focus was on getting catalysts on to everything. Twin injector does reduce the load on the injectors, and they are actually production line Weber 480cc/m units which are extremely reliable for up to about 220bhp

Mars
LR4WD, Lockers, Crawler Gears
LR4WD, Lockers, Crawler Gears
Posts: 1201
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 12:33 pm
Town: Pretoria
Vehicle: Toyota Hilux 3lt D4D DC 4X4
Real Name: Marnus

Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:01 pm

Well Martin I must commend you on a great idea. I wish I knew about this solution a long time ago. As it is I have gone too far down the path of converting my Spyder to multi-point EFI. I already have everything including having modded the Beetle intake manifolds to take injectors etc. BTW I am keeping the Bosch throttle body as is because it gives you a TPS and I am going to use the big injector to enrich the mixture when the turbo is boosting. That way I can run smaller main injectors with quicker response and have a lot of petrol spraying when the turbo kicks in. :thumbup:

User avatar
FIRSTGEER
LR4WD, Lockers, Crawler Gears
LR4WD, Lockers, Crawler Gears
Posts: 1418
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:00 am
Town: King WilliamsTown
Vehicle: 2,5 D4D Singlr Cab 4X4 Full OME suspension. snorkel.GMA aftermarket bullbar.
Real Name: Tony Geer
Club VHF Licence: HC 109

Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:24 pm

Thanks for sharing with us Martin a welcome to our forum
Image

User avatar
pietpetoors
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 10267
Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 9:12 pm
Town: Langebaan
Vehicle: 2.7 Hilux 4x4 DC
Real Name: Pieter
Club VHF Licence: X27
Contact:

Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:44 pm

Brilliant idea, just a pity it is so expensive.
Only Dead Fish Go With The Flow!
Image
1999 Hilux 2.7i 4x4 Raider DC. Rear diff-lock, Red Peppor Bull Bar and rock sliders, 31" Cooper ST, Snorkel, Alu-Canopy, VHF Kirisun radio, West Coast Rust, Mikem Rear Suspension, Ball Joint Spacers in front, 25watt LED Spots

Mars
LR4WD, Lockers, Crawler Gears
LR4WD, Lockers, Crawler Gears
Posts: 1201
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 12:33 pm
Town: Pretoria
Vehicle: Toyota Hilux 3lt D4D DC 4X4
Real Name: Marnus

Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:39 am

Its the Rand/Pound exchange rate killing us.

User avatar
Sven
Low Range 4WD
Low Range 4WD
Posts: 169
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:06 pm
Town: Nelspruit
Vehicle: '89 Hilux DC
Real Name: Sven

Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:10 pm

So will a Mr Turbo EFI work on something like this? i have one lying around
'89 hilux D/C SFA, import spec.4YImageImageImage

Mars
LR4WD, Lockers, Crawler Gears
LR4WD, Lockers, Crawler Gears
Posts: 1201
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 12:33 pm
Town: Pretoria
Vehicle: Toyota Hilux 3lt D4D DC 4X4
Real Name: Marnus

Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:58 am

Not 100% with you. What have you got lying around the weber retroject?

User avatar
pietpetoors
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 10267
Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 9:12 pm
Town: Langebaan
Vehicle: 2.7 Hilux 4x4 DC
Real Name: Pieter
Club VHF Licence: X27
Contact:

Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:49 pm

Not sure how it works if they say you can add ANY aftermarket ECU. Maybe they have different wiring kits for different aftermarket ECUs
The critical dimensions are identical including positioning of throttle lever and throttle rotation, so it will be possible to remove a Weber twin choke carb., bolt on Retroject, add any aftermarket ECU and loom and a high pressure fuel supply from a Webcon WFP600.
Only Dead Fish Go With The Flow!
Image
1999 Hilux 2.7i 4x4 Raider DC. Rear diff-lock, Red Peppor Bull Bar and rock sliders, 31" Cooper ST, Snorkel, Alu-Canopy, VHF Kirisun radio, West Coast Rust, Mikem Rear Suspension, Ball Joint Spacers in front, 25watt LED Spots

User avatar
Mr_B
Monster Truck
Monster Truck
Posts: 7324
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:38 pm
Town: Cape Town
Vehicle: Honda Jazz
Real Name: Bretton
Location: Brackenfell

Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:57 pm

All the ECU does is take various sensor inputs and work out optimal fueling and timing. Most of these aftermarket ECU's have multiple config options, so if the EFI carb has an option to drive 1 or 2 injectors(depending on the EFI carb's injector count), then it should work fine. That being said, I've seen a few guys toss Mr Turbo ECU's out due to problems.

Post Reply

Return to “Engine conversions (Lexus/7M-GE/3RZ-FE etc)”

  • Information
  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: No registered users