Engine vir SFA

Boerseun · Post by **Boerseun** » Sat Jan 29, 2011 1:17 pm

Hi ouens eks opsoek na so biekie raad oor n engine vir my SFA want my 7mge is besig om sy gat stadig maar seker te sien die vorige uienaar was maar n ou wat nie om gee vir sy karre nie so eks opsoek na n ane engine vir my bakkie ek kyk na 3y of die 4y maar will by toyota engins bly.

Ek kan n toyota 3y feul injection kry maar soek so biekie in ligting oor die engine kan enige iemand my help asb?

Ek kyk na beter brandstoff verbruik iets wat my nie langs die pad sal los nie want die 7mge gee my so tussen 3 en 4.5km/l en hy hou glad nie van water nie so eks nou moeg vir 7mge miskien as ek een dag groot is sal ek weer ene kry.

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Sat Jan 29, 2011 1:46 pm

Hi Mitchell,

Firstly the 7MGE is an excellent engine, decent fuel consumption with enough power to pull a heavy SFA Hilux around... personally I think you are going to get gatvol of a 3Y(2L, 62kw) or 4Y(2.2L, 68kw)... after having a 130kw+ of the 7M... also a 4Y will give you about the same consumption as a properly tuned 7M... about 6.5km/l on average... if I were you I would probably fit another 7M as your vehicle is already mod'd to fit it, and then rather spend the extra's on fitting an original Toyota ECU and required sensors... or a decent latest generation aftermarket ECU, like a Spitronics Titan... what ECU is the engine being controlled by at the moment?

Mr B

Boerseun · Post by **Boerseun** » Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:43 pm

It has the original toyota ecu with the air flow meter and im runing the STD 2.2 gearbox and diffs so the rpm is very high on this engine what is the averige feul consumption on these 7mge engins?

I was also thinking of installing the newer 2jz N/A engine i can get one for R9200 or just get an imported 7mge for R4200.

Bulletjie-3 · Post by **Bulletjie-3** » Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:53 pm

Thank you thank you Mr B

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:13 pm

Mitchell,

There's 2 guys on the forum that will give their experienced opinion shortly... Mark(Gunta) is running a newly overhauled 7MGE, with the original ECU and airflow meter, etc... he is getting 7km/l+(IIRC)... so his input will be valuable. Then there's Jaco(Spartan)... he is running the newer 2JZ with a GoTech ECU... he is getting 9km/l+(IIRC)... VVTi may have something to do with this better consumption... if I had the bucks and someone knowledgable, experienced and trustworthy to assist or do the fitment... I definitely go for the 2JZ... remember a Ching Chong 4Y with all the ancillaries(starter motor, alternator, etc...) with set you back around 8K, again that's excluding fitment and mods...

The 2JZ is a really good motor, it would be a major bonus if you could find one with complete ECU and wiring harness... not sure if this is possible...

Mr B

Agteros · Post by **Agteros** » Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:36 pm

Hi Mr B and others

I am also (maybe) considering some engine upgrade but having read through quite a bit of info on this forum came tot he conclusion that there is no clear-cut answer on what to replace your 4Y with and who to contract to do it. Is it possible to get a list of trustworthy suppliers which forum members can recommend?

I have been "warm" and "cold" on this issue for a couple of years now and I realise that sooner or later I will have to make the decision - either do the conversion (or remain with the 4Y) and/or acquire something like the new V6 Land Cruiser Pick-up mainly to use as an overlanding vehicle since the "standard" 4Y without air-con is becoming a bit "uncomfortable" for doing long distances in short periods of time.

Further, in my particular instance I need to justify whether it is worth spending 60K+ on an old 1986 vehicle (albeit it is in a very good condition)?

To throw another spanner in the works - I am very sentimental about old Agteros my vehicle so getting rid of her will be very hard for me!

I also have a Fortuner 4x4 V6 but it is not the ideal hunting car and to use it through the thorns and bush will make me cry

I am using this one as my "platkar".

Your opinions are valued.

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:07 am

Hugo... you got a 4L V6 for everyday... you love your SFA... IMHO... keep the SFA as is... if you want a little more power and better throttle response, I would honestly suggest fuel injection. I did my conversion over 2 years ago and everything is still running 100%... worth every cent! I had assistance from Bennie Hurter, he is an absolute perfectionist and in my opnion his EFi setup is bullet proof! It is pretty easy to DIY, and in so doing you have a very good understanding of what is potting and can easily diagnose any fault, should any occur!

Other than that, fit an aircon unit and SWAMBO too will be happy with the SFA!

Mr B

Agteros · Post by **Agteros** » Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:53 pm

Thanks Mr B

Do you know if Bennie is still doing the conversion? Have not seen him posting lately on the forum. Do you perhaps have some contact details of him?

Thanks in advance!

kfxnando · Post by **kfxnando** » Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:01 pm

Agteros wrote:Hi Mr B and others

I am also (maybe) considering some engine upgrade but having read through quite a bit of info on this forum came tot he conclusion that there is no clear-cut answer on what to replace your 4Y with and who to contract to do it. Is it possible to get a list of trustworthy suppliers which forum members can recommend?

I have been "warm" and "cold" on this issue for a couple of years now and I realise that sooner or later I will have to make the decision - either do the conversion (or remain with the 4Y) and/or acquire something like the new V6 Land Cruiser Pick-up mainly to use as an overlanding vehicle since the "standard" 4Y without air-con is becoming a bit "uncomfortable" for doing long distances in short periods of time.

Further, in my particular instance I need to justify whether it is worth spending 60K+ on an old 1986 vehicle (albeit it is in a very good condition)?

To throw another spanner in the works - I am very sentimental about old Agteros my vehicle so getting rid of her will be very hard for me!

I also have a Fortuner 4x4 V6 but it is not the ideal hunting car and to use it through the thorns and bush will make me cry I am using this one as my "platkar".

Your opinions are valued.

look at it this way!!
what will a new Hilux cost!!
400k????

so spending 60k on doing the conversion you would end up with a vehicle that you know what you have !!

so R45 000 value of your Hilux + R60 000 for the conversion = R110 000
can you buy a new one for that!!
and you will enjoy it more then the new one!!

as this will now be as per you dreams!!

conversion 60k yes!!
doing it self way way way less!!

a well know builder (known on here) told me man in the street buying every thing 35k!!
self will end up doing it for less, however have scored many bargains and free bees and called favors along the way!!

happy choices!!

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:13 pm

Hugo,

Bennie no longer does the whole conversion himself, but does supply some critical parts and assistance to Louis of 4x4 MegaWorld Menlyn Park. Louis has now taken over and does an excellent job, with excellent service. He is on the forum as well, username '4x4megaworldpta'... give him a call!

Mr B

Gunta · Post by **Gunta** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:33 am

Mitchell, the best advice I can give you is to keep that 7mge. The cost of changing your management system and bell housing and all the other bits is going to cost you. The 7 mge is bullet proof if yo understand and do it properly. I have had mine in for 7 years now and I rebuilt it last year in sept after it had done 300 000km. I am busy building another one for Everdt (Bullitjies) which we should have together over the weekend. The biggest problem with these engines is the head gasket. If you use the correct spares and know how to put it together then there is no reason why you should not get 300 000km plus on your engine and 6.5km/l minimum. I used to get 4.8km/l with the gotech and dictator and it improved drastically with the OEM management system. To rebuild that motor properly will be in the region of 15k plus labour. What is your cooling setup and radiator like?

Boerseun · Post by **Boerseun** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:51 am

Thanks oom

Im runing a toyota land cruiser radiator had a bmw one in but it was to small but the cruiser radiator work fine with 2 10" fans runing in frunt.there is a stange noise in the motor sounds like bearings or something in the head the 7m sounds like a isuzu any advise on what this could be?

Gunta · Post by **Gunta** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:59 am

It sounds like you have piston slap. My advice would be to buy another engine for around 4k and rebuild it with new pistons, rings, bearings and overhaul the head. The motor that we took out of Everdt's engine was making the same noises as yours and had no power. we bought another one and rebuilt it because you can't rebore those engines to much without having heating problems.
Below is a pic of mine.

scout · Post by **scout** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:00 pm

looking great gunta
what will a setup like this set one back plus minus , if done be expert or workshop?
myself and a friend both have 2.2 4y luxes and are considering doing a 7mge.
I am sure this has been asked a couple of times sorry and again plus minus?

Kaspaas · Post by **Kaspaas** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:51 pm

Mitchell, ek moet hier 200% saam met Mr B en Mark stem.

Ekt Kaspaas amper nou al twee weke. Ekt 900km met hom gery op 33's en 7.2km/l gekry.
Dis nou ook gesê dat ek nie meer as 120 gery het nie. Hierdie is gekry met die STD ECU.

Jou duur uitgawe is reeds gemaak. Die ekstra's wat die ombouing moontlik is maak, is die duurste gedeelte van n ombouing. Ekt ook my huiswerk gedoen, en met Kaspaas weet ek, as die 7M moet gaan na 300 000km, dan vervang ek hom vir R5000. GEEN ANDER PERSOON MET N OMBOUING KAN DIT Sê NIE!!

Ek wou bitter graag ook n 4y EFI gehad het, nou moet jy die som maak: 62kw @ 6.5km/l @ 120km/h
of 140kw @ 6.5km/l @ 120km/h

Ons het n 7MGE Cressida gehad (van nuut af), wat oor die 300 000km op gekry het. En ek weet hyt gereeld 230km/h gesien oppad Kenhardt toe. :wth:

Maar soos Mark en oom B sê: Die persoon wat daai ECU dokter, moet n Nobel prys kry. Wat as hy reg is, loop hy soos n droom.

Soos my signature getuig.

My voorstel, dokter eers daai ou 7m, anders vervang hom, en gebruik die orige moela vir petrol geld!!

Borntofish · Post by **Borntofish** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:54 pm

Jonathan if you do take this bold step to get rid of the 4y, may I have first ops on your power steering components!

Ou vale1 · Post by **Ou vale1** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:33 pm

Worst u can do to a SFA is to stick a bigger motor into it, why? EFI will do the trick on the road, and in low range it is as strong as a mule anyway! The 4Y is such a reliable, easy and cheap motor to maintain and work on, why go for the big stuff? Then u need to drop the suspension with low profiles just to keep it on the road above 140 (anyone driving a SFA above this speed needs Cassie's medication

).

Post by **JohanM** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:52 pm

Ou vale1 wrote:Worst u can do to a SFA is to stick a bigger motor into it, why? EFI will do the trick on the road, and in low range it is as strong as a mule anyway! The 4Y is such a reliable, easy and cheap motor to maintain and work on, why go for the big stuff? Then u need to drop the suspension with low profiles just to keep it on the road above 140 (anyone driving a SFA above this speed needs Cassie's medication ).

Koos ek stem heelhartig saam met jou!!! My SFA het ek eenmaal met +/-380kg se vrag agterin getoets kaap toe en terug en het so 7.7km/l gekry en ek het selfs een keer gekyk hoe hard hy kan loop met die vrag in en ek kon sy naald by die laaste syfer kry op die klok. 160 en ja ek raai dit nie aan nie, maar die 4y is lewendig genoeg om 120 te kan handhaaf met n redelike vrag in as hy EFI loop.

Ook as ek toer en vakansie ry, slaan ek nie meer as 110 sommer op die klok aan nie op teer pad nie. Ek ry mos juis sekondere paaie en grond paaie soveel ek kan so dan kan jy nie 120+ ry op sulke paaie nie.

Ou vale1 · Post by **Ou vale1** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:06 pm

Johan, daai Lexus het my seats gespoil! Om 'n sprint met die SFA te doen met daai V8 grom was great en daai speedo klim so vinnig dat jy vergeet van alles, en eensklaps besef jy die trok is nie gedesign vir sulke tricks nie, amper soos Koos se Klim sonder brieke

Kaspaas · Post by **Kaspaas** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:19 pm

Koos, die enigste rede hoekom ek sê hy moet hom met n 7M te vervang, is omrede hy reeds in het.
(harde werk is klaar gedoen)

As dit n oorspronklike 4Y was, dan sure, doen die EFI.

My gevoel is net, hy gaan meer geld spandeer om die 7M conversion te reverse na n 4Y toe, as om sy huidige 7M reg te kry.

Post by **LouisZ** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:17 pm

Hou die 7M, maak reg waar nodig en kyk liewers dan om die Std Ecu te vervang, klink so of die Ecu nie reg is nie, laat Gunta kyk of hy nie iets snaaks kry op die boks. Ek dink hy het al sy 7M goed leer ken.

Net ter inligting, my Efi kry deesdae so 9.3km/lt by 110km/h

Gunta · Post by **Gunta** » Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:36 am

scout wrote:looking great gunta
what will a setup like this set one back plus minus , if done be expert or workshop?
myself and a friend both have 2.2 4y luxes and are considering doing a 7mge.
I am sure this has been asked a couple of times sorry and again plus minus?

Jonathan the prices may have gone up a bit but what I can tell you is not to take shortcuts when you do this. I can put this motor together in my sleep and I have been running it since May 2004. I have had varsity fees on this engine and I know all of the remedies to its faults. If you do it properly you wont find a more reliable engine with that power that wont break your gearbox or drive train.
The motors are cheap around R3500 but thats where it ends. You have to take the head off and skim the block with the aluminium timing cover on otherwise the cover lifts the gasket ever so slightly and you get oil in your water. The block and head must be skimmed to a mirror finish not a course cut. Buy a Cometic metal gasket from Leda performance in Cape Town, they will ship it to you for around R1900. Get yourself some ARP stud bolts (R2100) and throw those stretch bolts in the dustbin. Take the head gasket and place it on the head and you will see there is a hole in the block and the gasket for water at the back of no6 piston. Make a mark on the head and have them drill it out into the water jacket. This was an inherrent problem with these motors and caused them to blow a gasket between no5 and 6. The gasket must be put on DRY no copper gasket stuff. The head must be torqued down to 115 nm and then you will have no problems with overheating again . If you get the motor complete with the harness cut off where it enters the firewall, try and get an ecu from Japan Auto they have a store room full of them but you need to go there and take one that looks good and has the plugs behind. I have got wiring diagrams for the ecu but you will need a sparky to trace and reconnect them to the ecu. You will have to buy an airflow meter from toyota (you can still buy them new) for around R3500 and then that motor will run like a dream.

If you still have the 4y motor in you will have to get a bellhousing, if you cant find one you will have to buy a new one from toyota. You use your existing flywheel and clutch assembly but you need to buy the cressida clutch fork otherwise it wont line up to the slace sylinder. You use your 4y engine mountings on the 7m and it bolts in the same place. You need a 3 core radiator and you mount 2 x corsa lite aircon fans in the front and thats your water system sorted. I have a VW bottle in as well but you dont really need it. Other than that if you have any other questions let me know. IMO I would rather spend the extra cash on a 7m rather than doing an efi on the 4y. The cost for power does not add up and the 7m is much better on fuel economy and the torque is massive. I have 80% torque at 1500rpm and max Torque at 2200 rpm which is just where you want it and the 4y will never be able to keep to the speed limit with 33" tyres on without driving in 3rd gear the whole way. The 7m is smoother MUCH quieter and you can leave it in 5th gear up the hills. Do it properly and you wont be sorry.

mark watson · Post by **mark watson** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:39 pm

mitchell , sorry but i am going to throw a spanner in the works , in the family we have all sorts of sfa hilux and the only one that never lets us down is mine with a lexus in ( check on the main page under lexus conversions that piet petoors put up we are in there ) we have 7mge / 3lv6 (camry ) 5l you name it . the problem with the 7m is it is a very peaky motor you have to give it gas if you want to move whereas the lexus has all the torque you will ever need ( mine has the auto in mated to the transfer case ) every customer with a hilux that we have fitted with a lexus has been happy as a pig in s**t , and its not just hiluxes -navara,pathfinder,musso,landcruiser,mahindra,hyundai,cortina,sprinters,colt,jeep you name it. when i hear the horror stories yes i can understand why people get negative , but my customers are my advertising i dont advertise as even spitronics send stuff to us and we are pretty much booked to end feb. but if you want to come round and see for yourself you are more than welcome. my hilux can make rustenburg from springs loaded with a ton and driving 100 - 110 with 15l of petrol so people must not tell me its not worth it. but check the v12 build in the cruiser.

zepplin · Post by **zepplin** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:39 pm

mark watson wrote:my hilux can make rustenburg from springs loaded with a ton and driving 100 - 110 with 15l of petrol

That's almost 14km/l. Should it not read 150l?

mark watson · Post by **mark watson** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:29 pm

if you want to confirm ill give you his no: but yes 15l to do 200km

mark watson · Post by **mark watson** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:31 pm

and you know whats the laugh we been doing it for the last three years so if you want to argue go for it , been there done that

mark watson · Post by **mark watson** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:38 pm

put a ton on your van and ill drive the *a* out of it and still use less petrol.

zepplin · Post by **zepplin** » Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:13 am

You should enter that Lux in the next Economy Run.

Rebel 4x4 · Post by **Rebel 4x4** » Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:54 am

mark watson wrote:mitchell , sorry but i am going to throw a spanner in the works , in the family we have all sorts of sfa hilux and the only one that never lets us down is mine with a lexus in ( check on the main page under lexus conversions that piet petoors put up we are in there ) we have 7mge / 3lv6 (camry ) 5l you name it . the problem with the 7m is it is a very peaky motor you have to give it gas if you want to move whereas the lexus has all the torque you will ever need ( mine has the auto in mated to the transfer case ) every customer with a hilux that we have fitted with a lexus has been happy as a pig in s**t , and its not just hiluxes -navara,pathfinder,musso,landcruiser,mahindra,hyundai,cortina,sprinters,colt,jeep you name it. when i hear the horror stories yes i can understand why people get negative , but my customers are my advertising i dont advertise as even spitronics send stuff to us and we are pretty much booked to end feb. but if you want to come round and see for yourself you are more than welcome. my hilux can make rustenburg from springs loaded with a ton and driving 100 - 110 with 15l of petrol so people must not tell me its not worth it. but check the v12 build in the cruiser.

How much do you charge for a lexus conversion from a 4y?

Hi-Hilux · Post by **Hi-Hilux** » Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:44 am

zepplin wrote:You should enter that Lux in the next Economy Run.

mark watson · Post by **mark watson** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:44 am

have a good laugh , but trust me i am having the last laugh , just had 2 customers come back , nissan hardbody 4x4 10.2km/l towing his boat and a sangyong musso 10.6km/l towing a trailer. but i suppose if you want to drive something like you stole it dont complain about consumption.

conversion cost 42k all in , rad,exhaust ( stainless ),aircon , dyno the works

Post by **LouisZ** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:14 am

What Radiator do u use? Do remplace crank, etc seals with the mod?

mark watson · Post by **mark watson** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:55 pm

on some we use the landcruiser radiator as its a 60mm core , some the kzte radiator , the trick is the electric fan because you get some junk out there , yes the front and back seals gets replaced , sumps , flywheels , front pump mods , exhaust , wiring , programming all gets done inhouse the only thing farmed out is the aircon pipes and gassing.

Andre du preez · Post by **Andre du preez** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:35 pm

Ek het 'n 4y in my bakkie..... ek het nou maar weer die naweek gesien veral as jy sand ry. Jy moet daai engine amper dood ry voor jy erins kom.
As jy kan gaan vir die 6 clinder regtig die 4y gaan net jou Petrol steel.

mark watson · Post by **mark watson** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:35 am

this is the thing with the lexus you have oodles of torque available and dont have to wind the hell out of the engine , with the 4y and even the 7m you have to give it gas , remember one thing the 7m is not even close to something like a 2f or 3f , we did a tata the other day with a 1j vvt and the guy was impressed with the power but hook something behind it and tow and its another kettle of fish ( very disapointing ) consumption up and have to give it welly to get anywhere , the torque curve sits to far up in the rev range , another point as mentioned before on this thread is you must strip the motor ( 7m ) and do this and that , sorry i want to buy a motor doll up the outside do minimal to it and run if it ever packed in pay 6k and stick another one in simple as that - . took it out and fitted a lexus with autobox and what a pleasure can tow a piggyback with a fully kitted colt rodeo with ease , 7.5km\l without towing 10.5km\l.

mark watson · Post by **mark watson** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:35 am

just had a customer come in yesterday with a kzte shape double cab 2wd with canopy , petrol consumption 11.4km to the litre , lexus motor and gearbox fitted.

Gunta · Post by **Gunta** » Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:07 am

Mark Where are you based I want to come and have a chat with you?

mark watson · Post by **mark watson** » Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:30 pm

mark , no problem , give me a buzz 082 762 6547 , im on the east rand.

Big D · Post by **Big D** » Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:56 am

I think one should check what your budget allows for, how much do you use your vehicle and what you use your vehicle for.

Mark , we hear what you say about the fuel consumption, but how much will you have to drive with your SFA to save fuel to make up for the conversion?

Will you get spares higher up in Africa for that V8.

Yes the 4Y is a donkey, and heavy on fuel, but it will last forever, and you get spares anywhere. If its all about the 0-100 mark, and 160km/h yes fit the lexus V8, if its about using a SFA what its designed for, keep to the basics.

But again each to their own. I just want to say more KW dont make it a better engine. All these engine have plus points and downfalls, V8, 7M or the 4Y. Decide on what you want to do with the vehicle and modify it to suit. Robot racer, competition truck or overlander.

Just my 2c

mark watson · Post by **mark watson** » Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:22 pm

spot on deon , everyone is looking for different things out of their bakkies / vehicles etc. i will never try shove a conversion down somebodies throat , i always tell a customer drive various combinations and then make up your mind. where the lexus scores points is for people such that have a vehicle that has popped a motor and is looking for an alternative , i have 2 navaras , colt , mercedes sprinter bakkie sitting in the shop now and each guy has been quoted between R20k - R40k to fix the motors but at the end of the day they have lost faith as they have been repaired before . so the lexus route looks appealing to them as if something happens with the motor R6.5k and you have another motor and to top it off its a toyota engine and they have a good reputation. but on the other hand it also comes down to how the job is done trying to make a quick buck does not work do it properly and you will have no hassles at the end of the day. and who doesnt like the sound of a v8. i got a quote for a 5cyl diesel motor for the sprinter hbs brand new R120k. the other plus is when having to tow something .

Big D · Post by **Big D** » Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:28 pm

I must admit, A sprinter with a lexus sounds very interesting

I cant imagine my Hilux with 200kw, With just the 70 odd Kw it feels unsafe. No safety systems, dodgy suspension and even worse brakes. And thats after replacing and/or upgrading

mark watson · Post by **mark watson** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:08 pm

deon , all the taxi owners that have sprinters are going over to lexus from the 5cyl diesel , the last customer came back and told me he used 1/2 tank from bethlehem to j/burg , and now uses 1/4 tank .

Big D · Post by **Big D** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:15 am

That is Scary! , a Taxi with a lexus.

mark watson · Post by **mark watson** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:00 pm

deon ,there is plenty of them around , but what i am doing for the owners is setting the rev limit so they cant go over 140 , so its teaching them a new driving style and they save loads on the juice bill.