DUTCH AUTOMOTIVE , RE ; LEXUS CONVERSIONS !!!!!!!

DUTCHAUTO · Post by **DUTCHAUTO** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:10 pm

HI GUYS .

BEFORE I GET JUMPED ON HERE GOES !

If there is ANY payment due to the forum for the following post please let me know . I am NOT trying to spam but to trying to make a point here !

I HAVE SEEN TOO MANY PEOPLE CRY , and lose a lot of money to " fly-by-nights " !!!!
We see a huge number of guys coming in to the shop asking for a quote on a lexus V8 conversion on various models and makes and the response is usually one of dismay and utter shock .

The worst reply i get from a customer is " MAAR N ANDER OU HET GESE ALLES VIR R 25000.00 , julle is D@NNERS mal , dis dan net R 5500.00 vir die motor en box !!!! "
A few months later the same car is towed to us with half a job done , the " conversion specialist " either ran away with the money or got stuck with various other issues . "
After a day or two with us the shock comes ...................the wrong engine mounts , the wrong bellhousing , the wiring is a mess , the parts wont fit , the fuel pump is wrong , the cambelt have not been changed etc , etc , etc ..............
This is gonna costs him my initial quote to fix all the Stuff-ups , plus the money he paid the " conversion specialist " down the road !!!!!!!

Tears come fast and shaking of the head and hands follows soon !

Please , do you homework ........... pay good money for a clean conversion that you can be proud of , that will last a lifetime and is hassle free . If not by us , but find a shop who have contactable referances and previous conversion work you can look at , also speaking to some of theire customers too .

Sorry , my two cents worth ............

Jean van der Riet

witmamba · Post by **witmamba** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:37 pm

Hi Jean, welkom by die forum. Is bly om jou hier te sien.

DUTCHAUTO · Post by **DUTCHAUTO** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:41 pm

hi daar Hans .......... geweet jou moet hier wees !!!!!!!!!!!!! thanks .

Danman · Post by **Danman** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:48 pm

Hi jean,
Welkom hier dis altyd lekker om met manne te praat wat weet hoe.
Wat is 'n ballpark figure vir die lexus conversion op die sfa.

Danie

DUTCHAUTO · Post by **DUTCHAUTO** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:54 pm

Danman wrote:Hi jean,
Welkom hier dis altyd lekker om met manne te praat wat weet hoe.
Wat is 'n ballpark figure vir die lexus conversion op die sfa.

Danie

HI MATER , DANKIE .

jy gaan kyk na rondom R 50000.00 na R 55000.00 , hang af wat jy soek ?

jean

jacques kotze · Post by **jacques kotze** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:43 pm

Welkom Jean! Ek ken n Jean van der Riet wat van Tzaneen af kom, weet nie of dit jy kan wees nie, maar wat is die kans dat daar twee van julle kan wees!

blom · Post by **blom** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:16 am

Hoesit Jean
while you are on the box
then be so kind as to explain to us pleps how you get to the R55000
break it down and put the costs to "jobs"/things

DUTCHAUTO · Post by **DUTCHAUTO** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:43 am

blom wrote:Hoesit Jean
while you are on the box
then be so kind as to explain to us pleps how you get to the R55000
break it down and put the costs to "jobs"/things

HI daar , Voor ek aangaan kan iemand my seblief se wie ek moet kontak om te adeverteer , anders kom ek in die Moelikheid op die site !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

jou antwoorde .............

Kom ons werk op n manual box op n raider 3/4 y en of 22r .

ENGINE , R 5500
DICKTATOR , SPITRONICS , R 6500 . ( GEWIRE , MAPPED AND DYNO TUNED )
NUWE KZTE RADIATOR , R 1950
CLUTCH , ( VALEO DYNA ) R 2500
FLYWHEEL , BELHOUSING R 8000
ENGINE MOUNTS ( TEFLON BUSHES ) R 1000
STEERING SPACERS R 400
BMC / K&N FILTER KIT AND STAINLESS INTAKE, R 1500
COMPLETE 3" ( 76mm ) STAINLES EXHAUST , R 4500
ELECTRIC FAN WITH RELAYS , WIRING AND BRACKETS , R 2000
BOSCH FUEL PUMP ( AND LIFT PUMP ) , R 1500
SPARK PLUGS , OIL , OIL FILTER , CAMBELT , FUEL LINES , BRACKETS , TEMP SENDER , AND SUNDRIES @ ABOUT R 2000............... COMES TO R 36850 IN PARTS ONLY ............. OUR LABOUR AND UNFORSEEN PROBLEMS AND MODIFICATIONS @ ABOUT R 15000 AND YOU GET TO R 50 000.00.

Remember , things like the cooling pipes are done with silicone bends and tig welded 304 stainless tubing , braided hoses are used , the exhaust is perfect , the look and fit of the fuse box and the tuning and final look a priority for us ! ( most of this i have not even put in the above quote . We may make R 10 000 if we are lucky ! But there is nothing as lekker as a happy and proud customer that opens his bonnet for everyone to see ! lol

Like i said , you can do it for less but its gonna look like an abortion !!!!!!

i am attaching pics for your approval

DUTCHAUTO · Post by **DUTCHAUTO** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:50 am

jacques kotze wrote:Welkom Jean! Ek ken n Jean van der Riet wat van Tzaneen af kom, weet nie of dit jy kan wees nie, maar wat is die kans dat daar twee van julle kan wees!

neee boeta , nie ek nie ................ seker net so lelik soos ek , lol

Stubs · Post by **Stubs** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:04 am

well if I had 55K I would have this done, but what about all the additonal strain on the side shafts, props, due to all the extra torque, does this not have to be modified or upgraded ????

Stef · Post by **Stef** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:04 am

Jean, welcome & tx for the breakdown.

I think we all know that there are additional/hidden costs, but never truly realise just how much. I think many people fall into the trap where they've started a conversion and then run out of funds, hence the shortcuts etc. just to get it running

R50k is a very competitive price...I've heard of prices up to R85k...

DUTCHAUTO · Post by **DUTCHAUTO** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:08 am

Stubs wrote:well if I had 55K I would have this done, but what about all the additonal strain on the side shafts, props, due to all the extra torque, does this not have to be modified or upgraded ????

hi , its a TOYOTA !!!!! the diffs and prop is fine , just the box that takes a bit of strain if you treat it with no respect . Not the strongest box ever . But we fit a quality VALEO cluth anyways !

Gunta · Post by **Gunta** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:16 am

In the end you get what you pay for.

DUTCHAUTO · Post by **DUTCHAUTO** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:17 am

Stef wrote:Jean, welcome & tx for the breakdown.

I think we all know that there are additional/hidden costs, but never truly realise just how much. I think many people fall into the trap where they've started a conversion and then run out of funds, hence the shortcuts etc. just to get it running

R50k is a very competitive price...I've heard of prices up to R85k...

hi and thanks . If i had the luxury of doing ot at that price ( R 85 K ) i would retire soon ! There are a few cars like Pajeros that will go up to about R65000 to R 70 K by us .

the guys are already moaning at R 50 / 55 K !

DUTCHAUTO · Post by **DUTCHAUTO** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:19 am

Gunta wrote:In the end you get what you pay for.

a man with vision ! lol

OOOOMS · Post by **OOOOMS** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:28 am

Hi Jean and welcome to the Forum, seems you can add some value with realistic outlook

Firstly you will have to join here:
http://www.hiluxclub.co.za/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; fore a mere R100 per annum that's a tad more than R8.00 per month

To advertisv and become a commercial member, see here:
http://www.hilux4x4.co.za/rates/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

jacques kotze · Post by **jacques kotze** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:33 am

My skoonpa het R80 000 betaal vir sy KIA K2700I. Dit sluit in die conversion, Aircon, body lift & cruise control.

frik · Post by **frik** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:01 pm

DUTCHAUTO wrote:HI GUYS .

BEFORE I GET JUMPED ON HERE GOES !

If there is ANY payment due to the forum for the following post please let me know . I am NOT trying to spam but to trying to make a point here !

I HAVE SEEN TOO MANY PEOPLE CRY , and lose a lot of money to " fly-by-nights " !!!!
We see a huge number of guys coming in to the shop asking for a quote on a lexus V8 conversion on various models and makes and the response is usually one of dismay and utter shock .

The worst reply i get from a customer is " MAAR N ANDER OU HET GESE ALLES VIR R 25000.00 , julle is D@NNERS mal , dis dan net R 5500.00 vir die motor en box !!!! "
A few months later the same car is towed to us with half a job done , the " conversion specialist " either ran away with the money or got stuck with various other issues . "
After a day or two with us the shock comes ...................the wrong engine mounts , the wrong bellhousing , the wiring is a mess , the parts wont fit , the fuel pump is wrong , the cambelt have not been changed etc , etc , etc ..............
This is gonna costs him my initial quote to fix all the Stuff-ups , plus the money he paid the " conversion specialist " down the road !!!!!!!

Tears come fast and shaking of the head and hands follows soon !

Please , do you homework ........... pay good money for a clean conversion that you can be proud of , that will last a lifetime and is hassle free . If not by us , but find a shop who have contactable referances and previous conversion work you can look at , also speaking to some of theire customers too .

Sorry , my two cents worth ............

Jean van der Riet

Hi Jean

I have send you a PM

Cheers Frik

Gunta · Post by **Gunta** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:09 pm

Jean, you should try and get a complete front end with the management system and complete wiring harness and that lexus will run even better and better fuel economy too.

Andre du preez · Post by **Andre du preez** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:38 pm

Al wat ek kan se is dit lyk REG!!!!

DUTCHAUTO · Post by **DUTCHAUTO** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 8:05 am

Andre du preez wrote:Al wat ek kan se is dit lyk REG!!!!

baie , baie dankie andre

GeorgeJvR · Post by **GeorgeJvR** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:58 am

Whats your take on the 2JZ conversion?
Have you done some of them, and cost?

witmamba · Post by **witmamba** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:00 am

2JZ - MY DROOM ENGINE!

DUTCHAUTO · Post by **DUTCHAUTO** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:23 am

GeorgeJvR wrote:Whats your take on the 2JZ conversion?
Have you done some of them, and cost?

stuur my nommer seblief . nog net 7mge turbo gedoen. jy sal moet die 2jz jumbo box gebruik ratkas gebruik .......... ander kaste BREEK !!!!

n bietjie duurder aangesien die motor duurder is , en die box omtrent soveel soos die motor kos !

laat weet

DUTCHAUTO · Post by **DUTCHAUTO** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:25 am

OOOOMS wrote:Hi Jean and welcome to the Forum, seems you can add some value with realistic outlook

Firstly you will have to join here:
http://www.hiluxclub.co.za/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; fore a mere R100 per annum that's a tad more than R8.00 per month

To advertisv and become a commercial member, see here:
http://www.hilux4x4.co.za/rates/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

i will settle as soon as possible , and sens u a banner

OOOOMS · Post by **OOOOMS** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:30 am

DUTCHAUTO wrote:
OOOOMS wrote:Hi Jean and welcome to the Forum, seems you can add some value with realistic outlook

Firstly you will have to join here:
http://www.hiluxclub.co.za/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; fore a mere R100 per annum that's a tad more than R8.00 per month

To advertisv and become a commercial member, see here:
http://www.hilux4x4.co.za/rates/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

i will settle as soon as possible , and sens u a banner

Noted :wink2:

DUTCHAUTO · Post by **DUTCHAUTO** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:01 am

OOOOMS wrote:
DUTCHAUTO wrote:
OOOOMS wrote:Hi Jean and welcome to the Forum, seems you can add some value with realistic outlook

Firstly you will have to join here:
http://www.hiluxclub.co.za/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; fore a mere R100 per annum that's a tad more than R8.00 per month

To advertisv and become a commercial member, see here:
http://www.hilux4x4.co.za/rates/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

i will settle as soon as possible , and sens u a banner
Noted :wink2:

please send me the banking details for the banner ad please so i can do the transfer !

tx, jean

OOOOMS · Post by **OOOOMS** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:15 am

PM sent

GeorgeJvR · Post by **GeorgeJvR** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:34 am

Thanks Jean that is exactly the reason i opted for a EFI on the STD motor. BUT when my ship comes in .....2JZ all the way

DUTCHAUTO · Post by **DUTCHAUTO** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 1:45 pm

Gunta wrote:Jean, you should try and get a complete front end with the management system and complete wiring harness and that lexus will run even better and better fuel economy too.

hi , ek verstaan nie , probeer weer ...... ek is stadig , lol

Agteros · Post by **Agteros** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:03 am

Hi Jean - ek dink hy bedoel as jy die kompleet 1UZ-FE koop met die oorspronklike Lexus engine management system gaan dit beter krag en brandstofverbruik gee as die aftermarket Spitronics of Dictator?

Ek dink dis wat hy bedoel. :)

Gov · Post by **Gov** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:26 am

DUTCHAUTO wrote:
Gunta wrote:Jean, you should try and get a complete front end with the management system and complete wiring harness and that lexus will run even better and better fuel economy too.
hi , ek verstaan nie , probeer weer ...... ek is stadig , lol

I think he is suggesting getting the lexus engine with complete lexus harness and lexus management.

@gunta: There are few issues with this: most engines are just havested out the cars quickly so everything is just cut out. There are also many electronic issues including that most of these new cars the engine management, instrumentation and keys are all paired with each another, so you will have to get all of this for the engine to start.

@Dutch: I'm very much in favour of the way you guys approach this conversion. If I get mine done I would like to have the intake on the passenger side and integrated into the original Donaldson airbox. I heard that you can swap the intake to the opposite side, is this true?

Would also like a dual exit exhaust ie one on either side just infront of the back wheel

ToyX4 · Post by **ToyX4** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:30 am

Front cut - includes the engine bay and the instumentation, ignition, everything in the dash. Wiring harnesses and ecu's included

swartvark · Post by **swartvark** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:34 am

Gov wrote: I heard that you can swap the intake to the opposite side, is this true?

Can be done.

Gov · Post by **Gov** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:52 am

ToyX4 wrote:Front cut - includes the engine bay and the instumentation, ignition, everything in the dash. Wiring harnesses and ecu's included

Oki, most engine places only have the engine. I suppose the it takes up much more space to import those.

@Swartvark: Thanks for the pic.

Now I must start saving, lexus V8 and 33's

KOBUSL · Post by **KOBUSL** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 12:38 pm

Welkom Jean. Jy praat waar woorde. Miskien moet jy dit weer skryf IN GROOT ROOI LETTERS. Op hierdie web werf sal jy van baie ombouings lees, en van nog meer wat reggemaak moes word. Ek hoop alle voornemende ombou-lede neem dit ter harte. Weereens welkom.

PS Nou moet jy net nog 'n Hilux kry, dan sal jou lewe volmaak wees.................................

Gunta · Post by **Gunta** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:03 pm

You can get the 1uz with the complete original management system then you dont have to put these aftermarket management systems on. I have used Domingoes, Gotech and Dictator and none of them run as well as the original computer. I went from 4.2km/l to 7km/l on my 7mge. IMO the reliablility is better if you stick to the original.

DUTCHAUTO · Post by **DUTCHAUTO** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:34 pm

Gov wrote:
DUTCHAUTO wrote:
Gunta wrote:Jean, you should try and get a complete front end with the management system and complete wiring harness and that lexus will run even better and better fuel economy too.
hi , ek verstaan nie , probeer weer ...... ek is stadig , lol
I think he is suggesting getting the lexus engine with complete lexus harness and lexus management.

@gunta: There are few issues with this: most engines are just havested out the cars quickly so everything is just cut out. There are also many electronic issues including that most of these new cars the engine management, instrumentation and keys are all paired with each another, so you will have to get all of this for the engine to start.

@Dutch: I'm very much in favour of the way you guys approach this conversion. If I get mine done I would like to have the intake on the passenger side and integrated into the original Donaldson airbox. I heard that you can swap the intake to the opposite side, is this true?

Would also like a dual exit exhaust ie one on either side just infront of the back wheel

yes , we are doing one right now , and yes we turn the intake around to build shorter pipe to the stock donaldson box and we fit a repalcement K&N filter inside the donaldson box ,,,,,,,,,,, no problem there !!!!

DUTCHAUTO · Post by **DUTCHAUTO** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:39 pm

KOBUSL wrote:Welkom Jean. Jy praat waar woorde. Miskien moet jy dit weer skryf IN GROOT ROOI LETTERS. Op hierdie web werf sal jy van baie ombouings lees, en van nog meer wat reggemaak moes word. Ek hoop alle voornemende ombou-lede neem dit ter harte. Weereens welkom.

PS Nou moet jy net nog 'n Hilux kry, dan sal jou lewe volmaak wees.................................

lol , my navara loop soos n droom , my vrou het betaal vir hom uit die boks !!!!!!!!!!! ek vra nie vrae sal jy ?????????????? lol

DUTCHAUTO · Post by **DUTCHAUTO** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:43 pm

Gunta wrote:You can get the 1uz with the complete original management system then you dont have to put these aftermarket management systems on. I have used Domingoes, Gotech and Dictator and none of them run as well as the original computer. I went from 4.2km/l to 7km/l on my 7mge. IMO the reliablility is better if you stick to the original.

hoe se ek altyd ////////// daar is baie min GOEIE tuners daar buite .// almal met n laptop en spanner is mos n machkie en n tuner ?????????

die driveability , economy , power is net so goed soos die tuner !!!!!!!!!!!!!! ek se nie ek is die beste nie maar ek spandeer baaaie tyd tyd op die dyno om n goeie balans te kry !!!!!!!!!!!!!

DUTCHAUTO · Post by **DUTCHAUTO** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:46 pm

Gov wrote:
ToyX4 wrote:Front cut - includes the engine bay and the instumentation, ignition, everything in the dash. Wiring harnesses and ecu's included
Oki, most engine places only have the engine. I suppose the it takes up much more space to import those.

@Swartvark: Thanks for the pic.

Now I must start saving, lexus V8 and 33's

spaar boeta , spaar !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DUTCHAUTO · Post by **DUTCHAUTO** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:48 pm

Agteros wrote:Hi Jean - ek dink hy bedoel as jy die kompleet 1UZ-FE koop met die oorspronklike Lexus engine management system gaan dit beter krag en brandstofverbruik gee as die aftermarket Spitronics of Dictator?

Ek dink dis wat hy bedoel. :)

ek was nie bewus van die stock ecu wat beskikbaar was nie

DUTCHAUTO · Post by **DUTCHAUTO** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:10 pm

TO ANSWER THE QUESTION ABOUT STANDARD MANAGEMENT OR AFTERMARKET ( dicktator , gotech , spitronics )

This reply after all the relies and a private message i got !!!!

i have NO problem with a standard management system from a smoothness and reliability point , no issues there ........... BUT ............

The stock system utilises the two lambdas , the air mass meter / map sensor , the idle control valve , the air temp sensor , the throttle position sensor etc , etc ........................

SHOULD any of those parts go wrong you probably have to buy an import motor ( again ) to source the parts .

Utilising the Dicktator ( that we use ) you do away with most of those parts making component sourcing nul .

like i said , THE ECONOMY AND POWER IS ONLY AS GOOD AS THE TUNER .................... in South-Africa we are so used to inferior service , service delivery , product and quality of workmanship that we take it as a given , and th guy that knows what he is doing cant get the benefit of the doubt ??????????

We spend a LOT of time ensuring the best of both worlds >
After saying that , i ONLY tune power !!!!!!!!!!!!! Logic dicktates that you need less throttle input to achieve the same power as a shitty tuned map , thus enchancing economy and having very good power at your control !!!!!!!!

like i said somewhere here before , only my way of doing things ..............and everyone sends me Jack Daniels as a sign of hapiness !!!!!!!!!!

Jean , The Dutchman

Gunta · Post by **Gunta** » Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:25 am

DUTCHAUTO wrote:
Gunta wrote:You can get the 1uz with the complete original management system then you dont have to put these aftermarket management systems on. I have used Domingoes, Gotech and Dictator and none of them run as well as the original computer. I went from 4.2km/l to 7km/l on my 7mge. IMO the reliablility is better if you stick to the original.

hoe se ek altyd ////////// daar is baie min GOEIE tuners daar buite .// almal met n laptop en spanner is mos n machkie en n tuner ?????????

die driveability , economy , power is net so goed soos die tuner !!!!!!!!!!!!!! ek se nie ek is die beste nie maar ek spandeer baaaie tyd tyd op die dyno om n goeie balans te kry !!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree with you there. One just has to find a reliable tuner that puts his money where his mouth is.

Post by **petoors** » Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:37 pm

hi..wil net vra ..het iemand al n cresieda 5 sppoed box met lexus in hilux probeer ?

DUTCHAUTO · Post by **DUTCHAUTO** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:03 pm

petoors wrote:hi..wil net vra ..het iemand al n cresieda 5 sppoed box met lexus in hilux probeer ?

gee my n nommer dan bel ek jou !

DUTCHAUTO · Post by **DUTCHAUTO** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:05 pm

wat is julle almal so stil ?????

lekker naweek ,

Jean

OOOOMS · Post by **OOOOMS** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:08 pm

Offtopic

Lekker naweek vir julle ook

DUTCHAUTO · Post by **DUTCHAUTO** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:31 am

Hi alamal . Baie dankie vir al die foon oproepe en positiewe terugvoer , ons hoop ons en dir forum en hul maats kan nog baie besigheid doen ?

Hier n paar fotos van nog n voertuig wat ons aflewer !!!
Hoop julle is beindruk met die klein details ?

Cheers , Jean

Gunta · Post by **Gunta** » Fri Sep 30, 2011 8:11 am

Jean it looks great, just a few questions.
1. did you have to do a body lift?
2. what consumption are you getting?
3. What gearbox are you using?

DUTCHAUTO · Post by **DUTCHAUTO** » Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:57 am

Gunta wrote:Jean it looks great, just a few questions.
1. did you have to do a body lift? YES , sump lies to close for comfort .
2. what consumption are you getting? some guys 5 kms to a litre , others up to 10 kms to litre , driving style maybe ???3. What gearbox are you using?

4y / 22r with Valeo clutch

Gunta · Post by **Gunta** » Fri Sep 30, 2011 1:08 pm

What lift did you do and what length bolts did you use?

DUTCHAUTO · Post by **DUTCHAUTO** » Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:50 pm

HI GUYS .

Have anyone done a 3 UZ vvticonversion with SUCESS ?

i have a customer with headaches about NO performance and i have no knowledge on these as yet !

Anyone ?

Jean
Dutch Auto

Gunta · Post by **Gunta** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:08 am

Speak to Alex (Perskers) he will be able to help you.

Agteros · Post by **Agteros** » Sun Mar 16, 2014 12:18 pm

Hi Jean, doen julle nog Lexus conversions? Ek het probeer op julle website kom maar lyk my hy is af?

swartvark · Post by **swartvark** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:07 pm

ek sien nou waar die naam Agteros vandaan kom

sorry......maar ek moes net iets se toe ek die datum van di vorige pos sien....

Post by **Baasvark** » Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:54 pm

Wat het van Dutch geword en is hy nog bereikbaar?

Hangover · Post by **Hangover** » Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:49 am

Dutch is toe sover ek weet!!! Jean het blykbaar n moewiese pos by Merc gekry toe het sy pahulle nog so ruk daar aan gebly maar toe toegemaak.