3.0 D4D Clutch Problem

lukestoyzx · Post by **lukestoyzx** » Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:36 pm

Another thing to check is if all the uni's are timed properly??

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Post by **Mud Dog** » Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:56 pm

Good point Luke .... apparently the propshafts were worked on. (Luke is referring to phasing of the universals).

Philly · Post by **Philly** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:06 am

Thanks everybody for he responses so far. The Fortuner still has standard suspension. How would I go about to check the phasing of the universals?
Driving around a bit with it, it does feel like it has improved slightly, but like Andy sais, I'm not sure i have heard of a shudder that got better over time.
If i stand still and release the clutch without the car moving, there s nothing that feels funny, no shudder. Only when the car starts moving does it start shuddering..
So the universals sounds like a option to look at.

lukestoyzx · Post by **lukestoyzx** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:38 am

Make sure all your shafts look like this or they'll give you problems.
Image Link Broken

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Philly · Post by **Philly** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:06 pm

This is what they looked like when I got them back from propshaft guys. They look correct to me. Even have the pyltjies and everything.
Image Link Broken

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Philly · Post by **Philly** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:09 pm

I must also add, it does feel like it is getting slightly better, so I'm gonna give it a week or 2 and then see what it is like. Maybe its just my mind playing on me. I think best way would be to take in traffic next week and see what it does.
Thanks again for all the replies.

lukestoyzx · Post by **lukestoyzx** » Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:54 pm

They look ok, maybe they haven't been balanced properly.

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Philly · Post by **Philly** » Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:11 am

If they are not balanced, would I not feel it at a certain speed as well? There is no vibrations at all at any speed.
Think everything is pointing to the flywheel... it is such a small shudder.. but it is very irritating when you do feel it.
Will have to take gearbox out sometime again

and get the flywheel skimmed again, or maybe a new one, anybody know the price of new one?

Mars · Post by **Mars** » Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:51 pm

Just drive it for a while before you pull the gearbox again. You will quickly notice if it is getting worse.

Nightwolf · Post by **Nightwolf** » Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:42 pm

Hi, hoop een van julle kan my advies gee!
Ek het so 3 maande terug my tuna se clutch vervang alles werk mooi ens, 2 weeke later sukkel dit om in revers gear in te gaan en wil dan nie in 1ste gaan nie en moet dit vorseer.
Dit gebeur elke oggend en as ek n entjie gery het wissel die ratte beter maar dit sukkel maar nog. Sondag het ek die gearbox olie vervang met Castrol 75w-90 GL4, dit het nie veel gehelp nie.

Mars · Post by **Mars** » Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:29 am

Voel die koppelaar snaaks of anders as jy hom trap? Word dit enigsins beter as jy die koppelaar pomp? Gaan die ratte makliker in as die voertuig afgesluit is?

My eerste gedagte is dat die koppelaar nie mooi los nie. Dit is gewoonlik wanneer die kar nie in eerste rat en in trurat wil ingaan nie want die die voertuig staan stil maar die ratkas hou aan draai selfs al trap jy die koppelaar so die ratte wil nie inskakel (engage) nie.

Dalk het die master cylinder skade gekry toe die ou koppelaar op pad uit was. Dalk moet jy net die stelsel goed bloei want hy sal dit ook doen as daar lug in die stelsel is.

Nightwolf · Post by **Nightwolf** » Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:20 am

Hi Mars,
Waneer die die kar af is gaan die ratte maklik in en uit, dit voel snaaks as ek ratte wissel as of die koppelaar bietjie vas sit of so iets.

Mars · Post by **Mars** » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:52 am

AS die ratte maklik ingaan as die enjin af is dan is dit die kopppelaar wat nie behoorlik los nie. Ek dink die probleem lê aan die hidrolise kant. Bloei hom eers en as dit nie werk nie begin jy kyk na die Master en die Slave silinders. Die kans dat die master probleme gee is baie groter as die slave so kyk eerste na hom as die bloei nie werk nie.

Verloor die voertuig remvloeistof?

Nightwolf · Post by **Nightwolf** » Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:25 pm

Dankie, ek sal dit eers bloei dan en dan vandaar af vat verder. Weet jy wat die specs is vir die "free play" op die koppelaar pedaal, voel as dit baie laag gestel is.

Mars · Post by **Mars** » Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:25 pm

Daar is twee goed wat jy kan stel op die koppelaar pedaal. Die een is die skroefie wat die pedaal se terugwaartse beweging stop. M.a.w. die hoogte wat die pedaal op stop. Ek is nie presies seker nie maar ek sal vanaand kyk in die handleiding wat ek het. Ek dink hy moet basies gelyk wees met die rem pedaal. As hy laer as dit is moet jy definitief die skroefie indraai dat hy hoër sit want as hy te laag sit dan gaan hy nie die slave silinder vêr genoeg druk om die koppelaar te laat los nie. Die "free play" kan jy stel deur die lengte van die stafie te stel wat aan die pedaal vas is van die master silinder af. Ek het hom gestel dat hy so 1mm beweeg voordat die stafie aan die piston in die silinder raak. Dit is maklik om met die hand te voel wanneer die stafie aan die piston raak. As hy te veel "free play" het gaan hy ook nie die slave silinder vêr genoeg druk nie.

Kortbroek · Post by **Kortbroek** » Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:16 pm

So om hierdie thread te revive. Ek ry 'n 2.5 d4d 4x4. Die laaste paar weke voel dit asof die koppelaar nie heeltemal los nie. Moet soms 2 of 3 keer probeer om in 1ste of tru-rat te kom en 1ste na 2de is taamlik grof. So ook 2de na 1ste. Ek het al opgemerk as ek die koppelaar 2-3keer pomp gaan hy makliker in rat in so ek vermoed die hydraulics. Hy het af en toe ook 'n shudder op die clutch as mens wegtrek en voel ook soms asof die koppelaar baie kort vat.

Het met die vorige diens (120k km) vir Toyota gevra om te kyk, hulle reken die koppelaar self is moeg. Quote: R12 000

Na ek hier gelees het is ek redelik seker dit is die slave/master silinder en nie die clutch nie, maar ek sal graag julle opinie wil hoor.
Ook vir die ouens wat die master of slave silinder vervang het, het dit gehou of weer opgepak? Daar is, neem ek aan, ook die moontlikheid dat dit op pak a.g.v 'n pressure plate wat te hard is?

By voorbaat dankie

Mars · Post by **Mars** » Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:59 pm

Hallo Hendrik
Ek is jammer om die draer van slegte nuus te wees maar die simptome wat jy beskryf is presies wat ek ervaar het. Namate die thrust bearing die vingers slyt raak die koppelaar al moeiliker om te trap totdat die master cylinder se agterste seël die gees gee. Jy gaan nog eendag trap en dan val hy deur. Om die master te vervang gee vir jou 'n baie kortstondige oplossing. Net totdat die seel nie meer die druk kan vat nie. Die slave gee nie moeiliheid nie. Dit is baie onwaarskynlik dat dit die slave sal wees.

Die ding is dat soos wat die vingers van die pressure plaat uitslyt ('n groef inslyt waar die thrust bearing kontak maak) verander iets in die konfigurasie van die clutch vurk, bearing en die vingers wat maak dat die clutch al hoe harder word om te trap. 'n nuwe master cylinder verander dit nie. Ek het ook naderhand begin wonder of die pressure plaat dan werkverhard of iets dat die al hoe moeiliker word. My broer het presies dieselfde ervaar op my skoonsuster se D4D.

Die enigste raad wat ek jou kan gee is om 'n goeie clutch kit te kry en die ding maar te doen. Doen terselfdertyd die "spigot bearing" wat in die kruk-as kom en die kruk-as olie seël sowel as die ratkas inset-as se seel aangesien alles al klaar uit is.

Kortbroek · Post by **Kortbroek** » Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:02 pm

Dankie Marnus, ja dan moet ek seker maar van die begin af vas trap en 'n clutch kit kry en dit doen. Help nie mens behandel net die simptoom nie.

Baby Cruiser · Post by **Baby Cruiser** » Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:16 pm

Hallo almal. Wil gou met julle iets deel oor my 3L d4d clutch. 2005 , 4x4 met nou 402 000 km op clock.
Gesukkel met pedaal wat swaar trap en nie tot bo terug kom nie. Sukkel om in lear ratte en R te gaan.
Vreeslike duur clutch kit of clutch selinder.
Sit toe maar eers 'n Midas master selinder in. Die hou toe so 6 maande en begin toe lek maar die probleem was nie weg nie. Sit toe weer die oorspronklike (oue) master selinder terug en sien toe..............
Die clutch pedal het so 'n vreeslike veer , omtrent heel bo aan wat hom weer terug bring.
Daar waar die veer in die clutch pedal haak het hy 'n rubbertjie wat altwee teen slytasie beskerm.
Ek dink nie die rubbertjie sal heel bly van brêkvis tot die kinders uit die skool kom nie.
Die veer het die pedaal so gevreet dat die gat omtrent 7mm geskuif het wat maak dat die veer nie meer genoeg hef het om die pedaal heeltemal terug te bring nadat hy getrap was nie. Dit het dan dieselfde effek as wanneer jou pedaal se freeplay nie reg gestel is nie , met gevolg dat jou clutch al laer vat tot hy later weg is.
Om op te som.
Probleem.
Clutch pedal geslyt waar terugskopveer inhaak.
Simtome.
Clutch trap moeilik , voel hard onder die voet.
Pedaal kom nie meer terug tot bo nie , want veer kan nie meer sy werk doen nie.
Clutch vat al laer en sukkel om rat te vat , want die clutch selinder raak nou uit stroke uit oor die slytasie op pedaal.
Oplossing.
Vervang die pedaal of beter.
Ek het myne uit gehaa en die pedaal op die milling machine opgestel daar waar die gat oorspronklik was. Boor dan die gat so groot as wat nodig is om 'n bus of sleeve in te sit.
Die veer het 'n reguit punt wat in die pedaal gaan van so 12 mm waar die pedaal maar so 6 of 8 mm breed is. Maak sommer eenwat die hele punt van veer kan vat.
Probleem opgelos.
Sterkte met die terug sit. Maat van my het met syne 'n dag lank gesukkel.
As ek kan raad gee sit veer en pedaal aanmekeer en sit dan die boude in.
Baie bly oor ek nie nodig gehad het om clutch kit te vervang nie.
Het enige van julle ander manne al so iets gekry.

Kortbroek · Post by **Kortbroek** » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:33 am

So bietjie terugvoer. Probleem met my koppelaar was toe release bearing wat besig is om te seize. Bearing het gevolglik die pressure plate diafragma se vingers begin sluit wat verhoed het dat hy behoorlik kan release. Effense lip wat in geslyp was op die vingers was dan ook verantwoordelik daarvoor dat die koppelaar harder voel (Sien foto hieronder). Die koppelaar plaat het net gewone slytasie gewys, hier en daar klein brand merke maar niks ongewoon en sou eintlik nog baie km's gehou het, maar het nou 'n hele kit ingesit.

Koppelaar is nou weer botter sag

Mars · Post by **Mars** » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:13 pm

Dit is presies die slytasie wat ek op altwee ons voertuie gesien het. In albei gevalle het die thrust bearing nog glad en sag gedraai. In albei gevalle sou die koppelaar plaat nog 100 000 plus kilometers gehou het.

Ek is bly jy het reggekom.

yotaman · Post by **yotaman** » Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:01 am

Dit is terugvoer, uitruil van ondervindings en die deel van advies soos in hierdie draad, wat die Hilux 4x4 forum so aangenaam maak! Thanks to all

BlueLegend45 · Post by **BlueLegend45** » Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:46 am

Mars wrote: ↑Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:16 am If you do some research on this and other local sites it is quite apparent that many guys are experiencing issues with the clutch on their D4Ds. The symptoms are typically that the clutch pedal starts to sag or get harder to depress (the pressure that is required to depress the pedal gradually gets harder and harder over time and is therefore not that noticeable). Gear changes also get more notchy/harder, engaging reverse gradually becomes more difficult and in some instances they start getting shudder on take off. The problem is almost invariably traced to the master cylinder or sometimes the clutch accumulator. In one or two instances the clutch slave cylinder also started leaking. I have gone through the exact same sequence of events. See http://www.hilux4x4.co.za/views/viewtop ... =3&t=25494 and this thread where I ended up replacing the clutch accumulator. http://www.hilux4x4.co.za/views/viewtop ... =3&t=36142 On Thursday afternoon my clutch again lost pressure on my way home and I ended up driving in peak traffic without a clutch - not a pleasant experience . MY Brother's 3lt D4D 4x2 had the exact same issues and after replacing both the master and slave cylinder the problem was still there. You could bleed the system perfectly but the first time you depress the clutch after bleeding it would simply "collapse". We replaced the clutch on his bakkie and the problem went away. The bakkie had done 120 000 ks.

I have been expecting to replace the clutch on my bakkie for some time and had fortunately already bought a clutch kit and spigot bearing. I was actually planning on replacing the clutch next weekend as soon as I had finished installing the adjustable front suspension on my Porsche Spyder replica that I built. Thursday evening I removed the gearbox and found the exact same thing as with the clutch on my Brother's D4D. In both instances the OEM clutch was made by LUK. In both instances there is no visual indication of any problems with either the clutch plate or pressure plate. My clutch plate still had more than 30% of its friction material left before reaching the minimum wear (this after 245 000 ks) and my brothers had more than 50% left. Both clutch plates had some wear on the fingers where the thrust bearing runs when the clutch is disengaged, slightly more on mine. The wear noticeable is a groove that is worn into the fingers of the pressure plate. As the wear increases the clutch becomes harder to depress. I suspect it is because the angles are changing ever so slightly decreasing the leverage.

In both instances the pressure required for the pressure plate to release had become so great that the hydraulic system could not handle the pressure anymore and the seals failed. In my case the front seal in the master cylinder had ruptured through the back of the seal (it literally burst through the back) and the bearing/sealing surfaces of the seal on the piston was completely frayed and worn away.

On Friday I took the flywheel in for skimming and then used the time to get a rear crankshaft oil seal from Toyota. The flywheel still looked fine and did not have any uneven wear or hot spots on it but I believe in skimming a flywheel whenever I replace a clutch. The oils seal wasn't leaking but it is such a job to remove the gearbox that it is a good idea to replace it while it is possible. This was the most expensive oil seal I have ever bought at R729. I bought the original Toyota seal as it has directional grooves in it ensuring a better seal and you are guaranteed of the quality of the Toyota seals.

I replaced the clutch with a Sachs clutch that I bought from Goldwagen for R3100. It came in a Sachs box but the clutch and pressure plate are both etched with Aisin Brand marks and part numbers so either Sachs is making clutches for Aisin or they are sourcing some of their clutches from Aisin. Either way is no issue for me as both brands are excellent quality.

I re-installed the gearbox on Friday night and finished the job on Saturday morning. What a surprise!!!! The clutch went from feeling like the clutch on an old Tractor to that of a 1300 Corolla. I simply could not believe it. Like I said earlier you get used to the clutch pressure building up gradually over time so you do not really notice how hard it gets..... until the seals start failing.

We also installed a Sachs clutch kit in my Brothers D4D and the experience was exactly the same. He came to my place yesterday and I felt the clutch pedal on his again. It still feels the same after almost a year.

Not only is the clutch pedal unbelievably light when compared to the old clutch but the gear shifts are also much, much lighter with absolutely no notchiness. It feels like a brand new gearbox! The total cost of the job was R4304. R3100 - Sachs Clutch kit, R729 - Oil Seal, R75 - Original Toyota Spigot Bearing which I bought from Toyota as no-one could tell me the size of the bearing (a sealed 6201 bearing) and R400 to skim the flywheel. Interestingly the spigot bearing I removed is a NSK bearing which was made in China. It is actually still perfect but I chose to replace it as well while the gearbox is out.

I could have bought a LUK kit for R500 less but I am now convinced in my own mind that I will never buy a LUK clutch again.

I will post a detailed post on how to replace the clutch as soon as I have the time.

Hi Mars - Just wondering how those Sacs clutches are keeping up?
I have a shudder when at operating temperature sometimes and sometimes not so suspecting a flywheel skim and a new clutch kit with spigot bearing and oil seals.
I'm seriously considering the Steves Auto Clinic upgraded TUFFTOY275 clutch which comes to the same price for a fitted clutch at Toyota.
Anyone opinions on this product - good or bad?

So many options - so little funds

Bear · Post by **Bear** » Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:42 am

I will leave "Mars" to answer your initial question.

From my experience a leaking oil seal causes a spray of oil or oil vapour to settle on the clutch causing a vibration due to slip. Check the mating point of the bell housing if there seems to be oil indicating an oil leak.

Reading the old posts, there seems to be so much of confusion on poor performances of clutches and things to do. Below are my opinions if required in the future while we on the post.

Flywheels are not only skimmed because of visible damage but because of the heat it endures and causes a slight warping similar to the cylinder heads. The surface of the flywheel needs to be level for ultimate clamping of the clutch plate, and to avoid vibrations and mild slipping. On a professional opinion, all rotating parts should be balanced as well when refurbished, which very few do.

There is a minimum to which the flywheel can be skimmed though before it weakens. I have seen race car flywheels disintegrate because of lightening them. One disintegrated and came through the firewall and ripped the guy’s leg off. Be careful not to over skim.

On install of a clutch, components need to be replaced. The releaser bearing and a new pressure plate and a good brand brake fluid/clutch fluid. Clutch fluid needs to be replaced at least once a year on a daily driver. The heat causes moister to form in the fluid and the clutch does not perform to it optimum. Every little thing contributes to the poor performance of a clutch.

Generally “shudders” equate to a poor install of the clutch.

BlueLegend45 · Post by **BlueLegend45** » Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:37 pm

Thanks for the reply

I purchased the vehicle last year June from the 1st owner and it had only 15600 km's on the odo so I'm almost sure that it's the original clutch it came out with
It's now sitting at 50 000 km's that was put on by myself. Mostly day to day highway driving and the odd dirt road - so not a work horse that tows and does a lot of 4x4 and bundu bashing.

The clutch being "weird" in the sense that some days it behaves like it should and other days it has this shudder confuses me as I'm not heavy on a clutch, nor do I tow or load heavy loads.
It does not slip or do anything else than presents a shudder in 1st gear on pull away when it feels like it.

I was confused until I started googling D4D clutch problems and then a whole new world opened up to me and as you say - there are so many factors and aspect and opinions and proposed solutions that it sounds easier to trade the whole vehicle in for another one that is automatic.

I'm concerned that I spent 12k on a new clutch and end up with exactly what I have now hence the consideration to go with the SAC upgraded TUFFTOY275 clutch but even that might not resolve the current issue as I've seen a lot of posts where guys replaced clutches and flywheels just to end up where they started off with no improvement.

I asked Mars about the SACS option as it was cost effective and from what I can gather it worked out well opposed to a Toyota Luks clutch kit if that is what they still use but their price on just the clutch kit is about double compared to SACS.

Bear · Post by **Bear** » Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:46 am

Hi Johan
Firstly don’t be too hasty to trade in a vehicle for a small fault. If you are happy with it otherwise, then fix up what’s wrong. Mars may not have seen the post as yet, but there are many other experienced guys on the forum who could provide their inputs. Also try clutch specialists, not one but many – google them in your area.

On my Mercedes I had a similar problem. I took it to gearbox and clutch specialists and they could not pick up the fault. There was a slight oil leak from the bell housing which everyone told me that it was the engine rear seal or gearbox front seal. I disagreed with them because I never lost any oils from either. I finally got tired and just drove it waiting for something to break. Finally one morning the clutch pedal fell to the floor. I checked the clutch fluid and it was empty. It was the slave cylinder which was fitted on the bell housing and leaked slowly into the bell housing on the clutch plate and caused the shudder. When warm it would dry up and operate well.
Finally the problem was solved.

BlueLegend45 · Post by **BlueLegend45** » Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:28 pm

Hi Ricky
With the prices of vehicles at this stage the Hilux will stay - I like it too much in any case and happy with it otherwise.

When it comes to which clutch to choose, what would you guys recommend:
Valeo or Sachs
Not keen on Luk as that is what is in there now and not keen to repeat.

BlueLegend45 · Post by **BlueLegend45** » Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:31 pm

Bear wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:42 am From my experience a leaking oil seal causes a spray of oil or oil vapour to settle on the clutch causing a vibration due to slip. Check the mating point of the bell housing if there seems to be oil indicating an oil leak.

By the way Ricky - I did crawl around and looked for any sign of oil but saw nothing that indicated that there was oil leaking.

Bear · Post by **Bear** » Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:54 pm

Well I’m basically out of options.
Not sure which clutch is better. Generally all branded names should be good. One of the more experienced guys can advise which is a better clutch.
Before changing the clutch, have multiple clutch specialist have a look to diagnose the fault first, as you could have the same problem after a new clutch.

Jaws · Post by **Jaws** » Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:02 pm

Just for interest I drive like a tool at times and I'm on 230k km with my original clutch. This includes many times where I got stuck in sand and I used the slip the clutch to get refs up to get unstuck.

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Post by **Cinco** » Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:56 pm

I went through 3 of the LUK EXEDY CLUTCH KITS FROM Toyota.Eventually replaced with the Sachs heavy duty kit for Vigo and no problems since?
This was a few years ago.

Mars · Post by **Mars** » Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:40 am

Sorry for only replying now. The Bakkie is on 365000 ks now and the Sachs clutch is still 100%. The one in my brothers bakkie is also still perfect. I am not sure how many ks it has done.

ByronMuller · Post by **ByronMuller** » Wed May 13, 2020 11:47 am

Good day everybody, i have a hilux 3.0,d4d double cab,4x2,i hear a squeaking sound when i step on the clutch paddle.
When the car is switched on or off ,it still makes the squeaking sound.
Toyota Barloworld,Kuilsrivier, told me i need to replace my clutch, quotation is R10500.
I really want to make sure what the problem is before replacing the wrong parts.
Any information would be appreciated
Thanks

Tim86 · Post by **Tim86** » Wed May 13, 2020 1:06 pm

Clutch operation is not affected by whether the ignition is on or off. Get someone to press/depress the clutch pedal while you listen for where the noise is coming from (ignition off). Squeaks often arise from the pin that holds the pedal in place in the footwell, in the master cylinder piston rod connection to the top of the pedal arm (footwell), the master cylinder piston itself (footwell/firewall), the slave cylinder piston itself (underneath by the bell housing), and the slave cylinder piston rod where it pushes on the clutch release lever (goes into the bell housing). Spray WD40 on the pedal pin, rod connection, and slave rod connection to release lever. Clutch squeaks are common and most certainly do not immediately indicate that a clutch replacement is required. At first glance I would say that there is a good chance they are taking you for a ride. How many km's on your vehicle? Nail down precisely where the squeak is coming from and let us know.

Post by **Mud Dog** » Wed May 13, 2020 3:25 pm

Yup, agree. There is nothing on the clutch plate that will cause a squeak, .... maybe the pressure plate but even that is a long stretch. Most likely one of the pins / linkages that Tim mentioned but my guess would be the clutch fork pivot. Difficult to get to inside the bell housing but WD 40 with the little extension tube should be able to get at it.

ByronMuller · Post by **ByronMuller** » Thu May 14, 2020 3:22 pm

Thanks Tim86 and Mud dog,problem solved, it was just like you guys said.
On point ,noise is gone.
I cannot believe that guy from Toyota Barloworld ,Kuilsrivier, just listened to the noise and told the sales lady,"He needs to replace the clutch ".
Thats so unprofessional, I will not go there again.

Thank you guys,much appreciated.

Tim86 · Post by **Tim86** » Thu May 14, 2020 3:45 pm

Which bit was it?
From now on fix it yourself.

Post by **Mud Dog** » Thu May 14, 2020 10:38 pm

Byron, even though you may not be mechanically inclined, there is a lot that you can do for yourself and save some bucks. If however the vehicle is under warrantee or has a service plan, you should stick to those.

You are always welcome to ask here (as you did) for second opinions and most of the guys are happy to help where they can.

ByronMuller · Post by **ByronMuller** » Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:26 pm

Hi guys,i have a problem, my bakkie was standing for 6 days now,ive started it yesterday and while pressing the clutch to put the car in first gear,i hear a grinding sound,when i put the car in neutral its gone,1st gear while idling, i hear the sound again,what can this be?

Post by **Mud Dog** » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:34 am

Just to be clear, you only hear the sound when the clutch is depressed, no matter whether it's in neutral or 1st gear?

If this is the case, then it's the release bearing. These are sealed bearings that have their own lubrication sealed inside. It is however not a perfect seal and dust / dirt does get into it over time. It could be that the grease inside has hardened but still keeping it quiet with regular use, and now that its been standing it has become noisy.

What mileage has the vehicle done on the current clutch?

To get to the release bearing the box has to come out - time consuming job for a relatively inexpensive part. So if you're going to pay a workshop for their labour, it makes sense to do the rest at the same time, i.e. clutch plate, pressure plate, flywheel skim if necessary, spigot bearing, rear end crank seal and gearbox input shaft seal. Becomes pricey, but still better than having to pay the labour again a little down the line for a failure on any of the above components.

Offtrack · Post by **Offtrack** » Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:53 am

Mentality creates some insane illusions at times, after reading this post l feel like my bakkie is a little stiff on the clutch

Montie · Post by **Montie** » Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:45 pm

Sorry to revive the subject, is there any difference between the Vigo D4D 2x4 and 4x4 clutch?

Post by **Mud Dog** » Fri Jan 01, 2021 12:03 am

The Vigo owners can perhaps tell you for sure, but I seem to think that there is a difference.

Montie · Post by **Montie** » Sat Jan 02, 2021 12:12 pm

Mud Dog wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 12:03 am The Vigo owners can perhaps tell you for sure, but I seem to think that there is a difference.

Thanks Andy, I am already in the process of removing the 2x4 gearbox and will be able to make a side-by-side comparison of the two boxes once alongside each other. I already have the Sachs clutch kit (purchased a while ago), so that can also be used for comparative purposes. As quick and dirty check, I now phoned one of the local parts suppliers, the same part number is listed for both the 3.0 Vigo 2x4 and 4x4 clutch, it even has the same number as for the 3.0 KZ TE clutch.

Incidentally, I recovered a 10 ton trolley jack from a local scrap metal yard last week (( all it needed was a bit of oil and now again working like new!) thus with an impromptu made-up gearbox cradle, the removal and installation of the two gearboxes should be a breeze.... (I hope!) because this jack has more than sufficient lift. Note, I will be doing the swop on the ground, although I do have a 4Post Lift in the garage.... I am not Schwarzenegger and doing this by myself without

help.... so lifting from the ground to above the head is out!

Jaws · Post by **Jaws** » Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:36 pm

Montie wrote:Sorry to revive the subject, is there any difference between the Vigo D4D 2x4 and 4x4 clutch?

Pretty sure they are the same

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Montie · Post by **Montie** » Sat Jan 02, 2021 7:35 pm

Thanks Herman! Confirmed!

Marnu Nigrini · Post by **Marnu Nigrini** » Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:36 pm

Hi guys, I what to upgrade my 3.0 d4d 4x4 clutch as I tow everyday up to 3ton and I have replaced it 3 times already... Looking for a extra heavy-duty clutch... Any suggestions?

Jaws · Post by **Jaws** » Thu Mar 11, 2021 8:26 pm

Seems to be a hit and miss affair.

I always thought Exedy clutch is the best in the business but higher up in this thread there is someone who had it replaced.

Im now on 260k km with my original clutch still perfect

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Mars · Post by **Mars** » Fri Apr 02, 2021 6:15 pm

Marnu Nigrini wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:36 pm Hi guys, I what to upgrade my 3.0 d4d 4x4 clutch as I tow everyday up to 3ton and I have replaced it 3 times already... Looking for a extra heavy-duty clutch... Any suggestions?

What clutches were you using?

Jay1982 · Post by **Jay1982** » Tue May 25, 2021 10:14 am

Guys I heard someone say that the Hino clutch can be used and that its stronger ?

Mars · Post by **Mars** » Sat May 29, 2021 6:51 am

There are so many different Hino Trucks that you would need to be a bit more specific. It is possible that one of the smaller Hinos use a similar clutch. There are a few dimensions that would need to be the same. The pressure plate will need to have the same diameter, thickness and hole arrangement for the bolts and pin holes to fit on the Hilux flywheel. It may be possible to keep the Hilux pressure plate and use the Hino clutch plate. In my experience the original pressure plate was the issue rather than the clutch plate. The clutch plate diameter should also not exceed the maximum diameter your flywheel and pressure plate can accommodate. Same goes for the thickness of the clutch plate. The clutch plate should also be able to fit onto the input shaft of the gearbox. Ie diameter of shaft and number/size of splines. It would be interesting to know. It is very likely that the Hino clutch will be more robust.

Montie · Post by **Montie** » Fri Apr 28, 2023 11:22 am

Seems to be an old topic, so I am just adding my feedback and experience.

My son-in-law drives a 4x4 Fortuner which purchased as a used vehicle. This vehicle seemed to had some heavy off-road use before, the chassis is filled with dirt, we re[placed the rear diff side shaft bearing and have found some water in it. The bigger issue was the clutch that either shuddered or some slipping when towing. The vehicle had been to several "experts" who "worked /replaced" the clutch. When my son-in-law found a job in Bahrain, my daughter had to depend on the vehicle and the with the clutch issues not abating,

I then decided to replace the clutch myself, off course with her helping. Since I had already installed a 260mm Sachs clutch with absolutely no issues afterwards, in my Hilux, I opted for the bigger 270mm Sachs for her 4x4 Fortuner, thinking that it took the bigger clutch, since it is a 4x4. When trying to bolt in the clutch, the bolts all fit but the pressure plate was oddly too far from the flywheel... Jah Well!!!

The flywheel is recessed and the recess on this one was meant for the smaller 260mm plate. The smaller clutch was not an option, so I removed the flywheel and after careful setting up in my lathe, I carefully machined the recces until the flywheel accommodated the larger OD plate. After bolting everything back in, the Fortuner is now an absolute pleasure to drive, soft clutch, absolutely no shudder or slippage, even when towing or working hard!!

yotaman · Post by **yotaman** » Fri Apr 28, 2023 12:05 pm

Happy for you, thanks for sharing

rood · Post by **rood** » Sat Apr 29, 2023 7:44 pm

To be honest! Wish you could help me! Have paid over R36 000.00 and R41 000.00 in the last three years replacing cluthes and gears on the gearbox on my D4D extra cab 4x4 and at this stage my vehicle is standing because of a clutch and do not have the funds to replace the clutch.

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