7MGE CONVERSION - VALUE FOR MONEY ?

[CHOMPFS]

Is dit regtig die moeite werd om n 7MGE conversion te doen . Op die staduim voel ek regtig dat dit nie die moete werd was nie . Consumption is regtig nie na wense nie . Krag is aanvaarbaar maar ook nie so wat wonders nie ek het bietjie meer verwag .

[pampoen]

True.im a bit disappointed actually.Dont tell anyone:) The powers ok but not brilliant! its a toyota engine though and the standard transmission doesn't have to be changed,and that does save if your considering a conversion....What about a super charger?

[Spartan]

Manne persoonlik sou ek nie die 7M way gegaan het nie maar die 2JZ GE, ek kan glad nie kla oor die krag nie en wat brandstof betref weet ek dit is omdat my voet swaar is. As ek bedagsaam is en op let kry ek nie te slegte verbruik vir n 6 cylinder nie. Met die 2JZ GE wat die upgrade is van die 7M is ek op n 1200-1300 rpm in my volle torque curve wat ek nodig het vir 4x4. Met die VVT-i version wat ek nou in het is daar ook n aansienlike verbetering in brandstof verbruik op die ooppad teen 120-140 Km/h en ek het meer as genoeg krag.
Die ECU speel n groot rol en daar is n paar trieks met die lang sesse wat jy net uitvind met ondervinding, ek kan glad nie kla nie 8 )

[Klonkies]

more se,

As ek my 22R wil vervang met die 2JZ GE, watse kopsere kan ek verwag - engine mountings, gearbox en so aan?

Dankie

[ThysdJ]

No engine conversion can ever be termed "value for money"... All conversions are costly not only in terms of money but also in terms of frustration and irritation until all the teething problems are sorted out.

I have a 7MGE conversion in my Hilux, and although the power is not devastating it is ample and once you learn how to drive it it is more than enough to get you up and over most, if not all, obstacles. To fit an upgrade to "save on fuel" is a myth. You have the power you will use it and it will cost you fuel, and it sounds absolutely orgasmic when that long 6 starts screaming like a wildcat. You still have to propel the same weight over the same distance, with the same wind resistance (the Hilux Brick Shape), and although the EFI engine might use fuel in a more efficient way than a carb fed model, that savings are lost due to over-eager use of the "right foot".

You wont dice Golf GTI's and win robot to robot with a 7MGE, but you will be able to pass a truck on the open road with more ease than with a std 4Y/22R. As Jaco said the ECU has a lot to do with it, and a well tuned 7MGE is really a pleasure to drive.

[Spartan]

No engine conversion can ever be termed "value for money"... All conversions are costly not only in terms of money but also in terms of frustration and irritation until all the teething problems are sorted out.

Well said Thys

[Mr_B]

Must agree with Thys, the quality of the conversion has alot to do with the end result... Luke, from our correspondence, you've got a way to go before 7MGE conversion can be judged, once the EMU is setup right for the engine you will see a significant difference... on my 4Y EFi conversion, once the setup was right I managed 85kw(road dyno)... then with dyno tuning the engine achieved 93kw and was a hell of a lot smoother... my point is... don't judge your conversion before all the bugs are ironed out and the engine has been professionally tuned, especially if you are attempting the conversion yourself with an aftermarket EMU, that needs tuning to achieve it best!

Carlo Voetsek's 7MGE is managed by a Dicktator EMU, that baby is awesome, I believe it achieves over 140kw on the dyno! If he can do it, then anyone can!

Mr B

[CHOMPFS]

NOU JA MANNE EK MOET SE EK WAS BAIE SKEPTIES OOR DIE SITE . BAIE DANKIE VIR JULLE ANTWOORDE . OP DIE STADUIM STEM EK SAAM MET JULLE OM TE SE DAT DIE REGTER LOOD VOET N GROOT ROL SPEEL . OM TE PRAAT OOR KRAG AS EK LOW RANGE IS , IS DAAR NIE N PROBLEEM NIE ! MY GROOT KOPSEER SAL EK SE IS DAT MY TOP SPOET MAAR 150KM IS EN DAN KRY EK SO 2.5KM/L AS EK 140KM RY SO 3.2KM/L 130KM AMPER 5 MAAR TEEN 110KM 8KM/L . AS EK MOET SE DINK EK MY MOTOR IS GOED UITGESORT BEHALWE VIR DIE MANNAGEMENT SYSTEM (GO TECH) EK HET NOU MAAR N AFSPRAAK GEMAAK BY HULLE OM SO EK GAAN +/-550KM NOU MOET RY NA HULLE TOE . AS DAAR IEMAND ANDERS IS WAT JULLE KAN AAN BEVEEL LAAT WEET MY ASB . DIE HEAD IS GEGASFLOW , EK HET DIE BMW PISTONS IN EN DIE HELE MOTOR IS GEBALLENSEER .

[Mr_B]

Corrie, on the fuel consumption side, the dyno tuning is critical here, and your instructions to the tuner(and his abilities)...

Most tuners do something like this, in it's simplest form:

0-40% throttle = tune for medium power = 0 - 80km/h
40-70% throttle = tune for economy = 80 - 120km/h
70%-100% throttle = tune for maximum performance = 120km/h+

What this in essence means is that best economy will be achieved at around 110km/h... but if you open the throttle to achieve 150km/h the engine is running at max performance in terms of fuels, hence your fuel consumption goes for a ball of chalk!

Mr B

[CHOMPFS]

MR B
MY DING IS MY TROK KORT TUNNING MAAR HIER BY ONS IN BLOEM IS DAAR NIE WERKLIK MANNE WAT DIT REG KAN DOEN NIE . VAT JY HOM IN KOS DIT JOU N PRETTY PENNIE DAN KRY JY HOM TERUG DAN IS HY STEEDS NIE REG NIE . OP DIE STADUIM HET EK EN N MAAT VAN MY HOM OP DIE PAD GAAN STEL MET N VACUUM GAUGE EN DIT IS DIE BESTE VAT EK DIE TROK NOG KON KRY . ONDER LANGS IS EK GLAD NIE HAPPY NIE . AS DAAR DYNO TUNNERS IS IN JHB OF NADER AAN BLOEM WAT GOED IS LAAT WEET MY EK WAS AL IN WELKOM OOK .

[Mr_B]

Corrie, in Pretoria(IIRC) there is a 4x4 dyno tuning guru, Schalk... he has 'fixed/tuned' many guys conversions on the forum... to say the least, everybody is very impressed with his work and service...

The place is called DynoLogic:

388 Airport Rd
Doornpoort
Pretoria
0186

Telephone (012) 547-1111
Mobile 082 880-6116
Fax (012) 547-1111

Schalk comes highly recommended!

[ThysdJ]

Carlo Voetsek's 7MGE is managed by a Dicktator EMU, that baby is awesome, I believe it achieves over 140kw on the dyno! If he can do it, then anyone can!Mr B

Try 152 kw Bretton... but he pays for it in fuel bills...

[Mr_B]

Yip... that pretty awesome Thys... Jaco, the 2JZ is an awesome piece of machinery, but the fact is that most guys(myself included) cannot afford the engine... a 7MGE conversion is expensive, say round 40K... but that's still less than the cost of the 2JZ engine alone! Horses for coarses pal!

[Spartan]

Corrie
wat is die size (ID) van jou exhaust hoeveel boxes jy moet tenminste n 63mm van voor tot agter he, watse fuel pompe gebruik jy, het jy die suction by die tank groter gemaak, het jy n anti surge tank in watse radiator gebruik jy want n warm engine maak nie krag nie en daar is nog baie goed wat ek jou kan vra. Wie het die ding vir jou gewire?

[Spartan]

a 7MGE conversion is expensive, say round 40K... but that's still less than the cost of the 2JZ engine alone!

Nee B waar koop jy , daai 2JZGE sonder VVT-i is onder die 10K en ons koop ook imported engines wat al gebruik is, nie nuut nie, die 2JZGTE is so 15-16K en dan kom al die ander goed by.

[Mr_B]

Sorry Jaco... I was thinking of the Lexus V8 vvti...

[JohanM]

Personally I think that like the other said, any engine conversion is not really value for money. I don't have the money myself to fit other engine's and also don't have the time to sort out teething problems.

I did a EFI conversion on my 4Y, and it does go better, and is more driveable. If I use the extra power the consumption stays the same as with the carb, but goes slightly better. It has not made it noticably faster on topspeed though, but then again, why Race a SFA at 140 Km/h on a raod when going on a trip. It was designed with a topspeed of 145km/h in mind. Also you only win +/-15 minutes maximum over a 200 km+ distance when staying at 140+ compared to driving at 120.

! MY GROOT KOPSEER SAL EK SE IS DAT MY TOP SPOET MAAR 150KM IS EN DAN KRY EK SO 2.5KM/L AS EK 140KM
RY SO 3.2KM/L 130KM AMPER 5 MAAR TEEN 110KM 8KM/L

Daar spreek jy jou eie probleem aan. As jy die Frontal area vat van die SFA sal jy amper dubbel die krag van 'n gewone 7M enjin nodig he on jou topsnelheid veel meer te maak.

Kry vir jou 'n BMW PLATKAR as jy 150 km/h+ wil ry.... SFA = SLOWER FAMILY ADVENTURE

[Spartan]

It was designed with a topspeed of 145km/h in mind

Ja terwyl dit klink of die engine enige tyd gaan uitval op daai spoed

[conversion man]

Al die goed wat jy benodig vir die 7m het jy nodig vir n 1UZ ( LEXUS V8 ) EN MY SFA GEE 5.2 km/l teen 150 kph met aircon aan .Die v8 kos nie veel meer as n 7m nie en hy het nie gasket moeilikheid nie so sit net die v8 in en vergeet daai ou fossiel 7m want hy het nie krag nie en swaar op sous so hoekom ?

[Thabogrobler]

Corrie,

Eerstens, welkom op die forum. EK glo jy sal baie hier leer, maar ons luister graag na jou raad!

By wie was jy in Welkom? Willie by Autodok? Ek dink Ponti van die ou Tune&Auto sal sekerlik vir jou kan help? Hy het glo getrek net af in die straat, na Human Motors se kant toe, agter by Speed Pro, saam met Piet Lourens. Maar moet nie vir Piet vra watter enjin hy dink sal beter werk nie - Jy sal daar uit ry met 'n lekker 350 Chevy...

[Spartan]

Ek weet nie die V8 klink net mooi maar is nou nie eintlik n rocket nie en maak nie krag tensy jy die ding krap nie waar die L6 baie lekker werk net so stock van sy ma af en nie een van die twee is WOW lig op brandstof nie. So ek dink die manne wat die conversion ding wil doen moet besef dat jy nooit best of both worlds kry nie, of jy het n elkedag rondry bakkie wat jy net so nou en dan mee gaan speel of jy het n bakkie wat gebou en gemodify is net vir off-road. IMHO besluit wat wil jy doen en houop huil oor brandstof en krag en elkedag rondry want as jy baie krag soek gooi jy baie petrol en as jy ekkonomies soek kry vir jou n mini maar jy gaan nie alles in een paket kry nie. En goeie conversions kos geld AMEN.

[pampoen]

Must agree with Thys, the quality of the conversion has alot to do with the end result... Luke, from our correspondence, you've got a way to go before 7MGE conversion can be judged, once the EMU is setup right for the engine you will see a significant difference... on my 4Y EFi conversion, once the setup was right I managed 85kw(road dyno)... then with dyno tuning the engine achieved 93kw and was a hell of a lot smoother... my point is... don't judge your conversion before all the bugs are ironed out and the engine has been professionally tuned, especially if you are attempting the conversion yourself with an aftermarket EMU, that needs tuning to achieve it best!

Carlo Voetsek's 7MGE is managed by a Dicktator EMU, that baby is awesome, I believe it achieves over 140kw on the dyno! If he can do it, then anyone can!

Mr B

If i managed to get the software map hes running for my engine would it work? what engine mods does he have though?

[Toybox]

It will work in that your engine should start and probably run okay-ish.

The truth is that every engine is its own individual entity. No two are the same and consequently no 2 maps will ever be truly interchangeable. Before you go any further with judging the performance of your conversion I would get your van dyno'd by someone who knows what they're doing. (cause there are dyno guys and then there are dyno guys!)

[Mr_B]

Must agree with Toybox, we've tried my 4Y efi map on 2 engines of the same spec, but both needed further adjusting, which ultimately landed up in a proper dyno!

[pampoen]

interesting!but i am disapointed with the power shes putting out now ,She put out 138 hp on the wheels last dyno which i think was a bit pap considering she did put out 180 and is capable of pushing 200 plus,i just need to get that silly comp to ecu cable made up and then i can tune.

[Toybox]

From what I read the engine puts out about 190ish hp on the flywheel. So 140 odd on the wheels (if the dyno is to be believed, and I don't trust any of them) is pretty dam great!

[Mr_B]

Thats correct Toybox...

The 7M-GE was produced from 1986 through 1992. Output was 190-204 hp (142-152 kW(flywheel)) at 6000 rpm and 185-196 ft·lbf (250-265 Nm) at 4800 rpm.

The size of your tyres will also make a considerable difference... 32/33's do eat quite a bit of power... I'd say that 140hp on the wheels sounds really good, when you consider that my EFi 4Y gives 93bhp on the wheels(33's)...

[pampoen]

Carlo Voetsek's 7MGE is managed by a Dicktator EMU, that baby is awesome, I believe it achieves over 140kw on the dyno! If he can do it, then anyone can!Mr B

Try 152 kw Bretton... but he pays for it in fuel bills...

So this is just flywheel power then. interesting how do they actually measure flywheel hp vs brake hp?

[CHOMPFS]

DANKIE AAN ALMAL SE RAAD EK HET VIR MY BAKKIE N AFSPRAAK GEMAAK BY GO TECH . EK IS VOLGENDE WEEK IN JHB EN HULLE IS NOGAL NABY WAAR EK GAAN BLY . EK MOET SE SCHALK WIE JULLE AANBEVEEL HET IS BAIE PROFESSIONEEL ONGELUKKIG IS HY IN IN BLOU BUL LAND EN DUS TE VER OM DIT TE DOEN VOOR MY KURSUS BEGIN . BAIE OUENS PRAAT VAN N OU IN VANDERBYL , MAAR NIEMAND KAN NOG SY KONTAK BESONDERE VIR MY DEUR GEE NIE .

[Spartan]

DANKIE AAN ALMAL SE RAAD EK HET VIR MY BAKKIE N AFSPRAAK GEMAAK BY GO TECH . EK IS VOLGENDE WEEK IN JHB EN HULLE IS NOGAL NABY WAAR EK GAAN BLY . EK MOET SE SCHALK WIE JULLE AANBEVEEL HET IS BAIE PROFESSIONEEL ONGELUKKIG IS HY IN IN BLOU BUL LAND EN DUS TE VER OM DIT TE DOEN VOOR MY KURSUS BEGIN . BAIE OUENS PRAAT VAN N OU IN VANDERBYL , MAAR NIEMAND KAN NOG SY KONTAK BESONDERE VIR MY DEUR GEE NIE .

Nou wat nou, ons hoor nog niks, of ry die Lux te lekker dat jy nie kans kry om op die forum te kom nie vertel bietjie

[kfxnando]

well as far as dyno operators, self trust very few of them!!

however do know of one who will not BS you and have delt with him for around 20years

Sybie from Nyto Performance
in Brakpan
011 740 1330

he will tell it like it is and wont inflate numbers!!!

due to this topic of power between flywheel/sea level/wheels
did a little research
can be read on the link
http://www.kfxnando.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=54" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

hope this helps!!

[Spartan]

Jy praat van Sybie Coetzee

[kfxnando]

Jy praat van Sybie Coetzee

yep that is the one!!

[Spartan]

CHOPFS jy moet nou begin vertel van daai bakkie en hoe ry hy nou

[Gunta]

Nothing beats the torque curve of the L6. My 7m has 80% of its torque available just over idle. I cant complain about power with mine. I gas flowed the head and put on branches and a 63mm pipe, and nothing sounds as good when she starts to scream. I have taken her of the clock until my needle hits the trip meter and thats with all my camping gear on board. So IMHO I think it is a dramatic change from my 22R. I have just taken out my Dictator and fitted the OEM computer and airflow meter, so I will let you know what my fuel consumption is. I will have lost some power, but that can be rectified with a chip.

[CHOMPFS]

Ja ek is die ou wat gevra het of is dit regtig die moeite werd om so n conversion te doen .
Na die naweek het my sienning heeltemal verander oor my eie bakkie en so ook n paar ander . Soos almal gese het en ek ook geweet het is dat n ou wat go tech ken hom moet stel . Dus heeltemal n ander bakkie nadat ek dit laat doen het .
JA DIT IS DIE MOEITE WERD !