blown head gasket symptoms

Tinman · Post by **Tinman** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 3:38 am

i have the mayonaise in the rocker cover, brown sludgy oil, and hardly any radiator fluid left.
how hard is it to change the head gasket?

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:33 am

Tinman wrote:i have the mayonaise in the rocker cover, brown sludgy oil, and hardly any radiator fluid left.
how hard is it to change the head gasket?

Not difficult if you follow your fellow countryman's Instruction Manual:

Hilux/4 Runner 1970-1997
Automobile Repair Manual
Author: Max Ellery
Code: EP.TH4P

Available From:
Max Ellery Publications
78 Hatham
Golden Square
Victoria 3555
Ph. 03 5444 5622
Fax. 03 5444 2660

Best of luck

Rich

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:40 am

For the South Africans:

It's available through Kalahari.net for R250

For Other Hilux Manuals go to:

http://www.ellery.com.au

Retrieve the relevant Code:

ie. Code-EP.TH4D for all SFA Hilux Diesels

Then Order through Kalahari.net

Rich

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:57 am

Hi Tinman,

The 4Y often blows on the outer edge of the no.4 cylinder.

Replacing the head gasket is pretty straight forward, but there are a few things to watch out for. The 4Y is a push-rod motor, so the cam is in the block, the head can be removed without having to remove the timing chain and assembly. The rocker assembly just bolts off, but can be bit of a pain to put back on, you have to keep rocker arms/push rods in place while bolting the assembly back on. You must also mark which pushrod goes where and put them back exactly as they were. You will have to drain the coolant, disconnect the water pipe at the top, as well as the pipe from the rear of the head. Drain oil, remove oil filter and replace.

Once the head is off, the block and head should be pressure tested and checked for warping/ visible crackes, if warped they(head/block) will need to be skimmed as least, if cracked you will need to get advise from an automotive engineering firm on whether it's repairable. Many mechs just put a new gasket in without checking the head and block, leading to premature failure of the head gasket.

You will need a good torque wrench, to torque the head bolts back to spec, the head bolts must be re-torque'd after 1000km's...

If you are not entirely positive you can do the job rather get a good mechanic to do it, may work out cheaper in the long run!

B

Tinman · Post by **Tinman** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:09 am

i have a manual on how to do it and i have everything that i need, shouldnt be too hard. lets just hope there isnt to much corrossion. what is the best way to clean the surfaces if there is a very slight bit of corrosion?

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:06 am

On any other mating surface I would say use a mating surface file and some emery paper, but this the head and block... if you want the job to last a decent length of time, then skimming the head is vital!

B

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:08 am

snipes wrote:On any other mating surface I would say use a mating surface file and some emery paper, but this the head and block... if you want the job to last a decent length of time, then skimming the head is vital!

B

I need to polish up my fluffel valves, so:

Where can I get a bag of skimming powder from Bretton or does it now come in a Gel

Rich

dalkill · Post by **dalkill** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:09 pm

snipes wrote: The 4Y often blows on the outer edge of the no.4 cylinder.

I had the same with my SC 2.2. Previous owner had skimmed the thing to it's last so I had to replace - with pirate head. Was fine after that till one day one of the water pipes burst and I did not notice the temp go up past red... Tested it when I was selling it some time after that. Slight crack in the gasket, but all seemed to be OK.

Does the import 4y's have the same problem?

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:21 pm

dalkill wrote:
snipes wrote: The 4Y often blows on the outer edge of the no.4 cylinder.
Does the import 4y's have the same problem?

Interesting question

4Y Head gaskets usually blow on Original 4Y's at nothing under: 180,000 and then it's not uncommon for them to go again around 230,000 and then again around 300,000 odd Kms

As the Korean ones are manufactured using the tooling they bought from Toyota Japan; I guess they will follow suite

:roll:

Rich

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:26 pm

My opinion on 4th cylinder blows:
The wall between the water jacket and cylinder is pretty thin at the back end of the no.4 cylinder. On the block and head this water channel is one wide channel, but the head gasket divides it into 2 section, with a piece of gasket inbetween. So over time(lots of time...) the piece of gasket between the 2 channels weakens and deforms, allowing the high combustion pressure to push the steel 'cylinder' part of the gasket back a bit, making it fold, and eventually you have a blow head gasket. I would think that the original head gasket is higher quality and lasts longer. The pirate gaskets are probably weaker and therefore suffer this fate sooner than the OEM part. This is exactly what I found with my lux!

m2cw :D

B

Scorpion · Post by **Scorpion** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:12 pm

Dadz Toy BFI wrote:
4Y Head gaskets usually blow on Original 4Y's at nothing under: 180,000 and then it's not uncommon for them to go again around 230,000 and then again around 300,000 odd Kms

My original 4Y went 360k km's before the headgasket went...

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:02 pm

Scorpion wrote:
Dadz Toy BFI wrote:
4Y Head gaskets usually blow on Original 4Y's at nothing under: 180,000 and then it's not uncommon for them to go again around 230,000 and then again around 300,000 odd Kms

My original 4Y went 360k km's before the head gasket went...

I met one that has done 470k and is still going strong hey

Mine was blowing on the 1st and 4th head when we took the head off after the transplant

(she'd done 183k)

When you look closely at the block you can see the susceptible area at the back of No.4; where the barrel and water jacket are close, close true.

I took some close up high definition photos with Bretton's camera, hopefully he'll release them when his laptop comes back from the repair shop :roll:

Rich

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:26 am

The repair shop is battling with my laptop, not sure why, maybe sony parts availability, anyway I may well fire up the old desktop PC this evening as backup!

B

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:27 am

Stuart

Check out these New 4Y's from a Dealer in Brizzy Mate

http://www.brisbanemotorimports.com.au/new-parts.htm

Rich

Tinman · Post by **Tinman** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 4:10 am

cheers for the link.
the head is off!!! head gasket was blown through on every cylinder, and the head is warped by about 1mm.
the block seems fine, so i will probably get the head skimmed or get a new head. what is the best way to clean the head gasket off the head and block?

Tinman · Post by **Tinman** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 9:11 am

ok maybe 1mm is a bit off its actually .1 of a mm off
anyproblems with just new gasket and re torquing a bit tighter than its supose to be?
im trying to get this runnung again as cheep as possible.

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 9:38 am

Tinman wrote:cheers for the link.
the head is off!!! head gasket was blown through on every cylinder, and the head is warped by about 1mm.
the block seems fine, so i will probably get the head skimmed or get a new head. what is the best way to clean the head gasket off the head and block?

You can get a special file "just for the job".

Bretton (Snipes) might just take a picy of his for you

Rich

Tinman · Post by **Tinman** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:10 am

sorry to get ur hopes up chaps, the head is stuffed, the water jacket next to no4 is corroded so closes that it would blow the head instantly because the twit of a previous owner used water not coolant.

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:16 am

Tinman wrote:sorry to get ur hopes up chaps, the head is stuffed, the water jacket next to no4 is corroded so closes that it would blow the head instantly because the twit of a previous owner used water not coolant.

Yeah, mine looked pretty horrible too mate

Any chance that you can post some photos of your engine showing the probs; as many folk never get to see it 1st hand - helps us understand and ol' :roll:

So what will it be for you Sir a Korean Beauty

Rich

Tinman · Post by **Tinman** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 5:41 pm

i will post pics as soon as possible.
no im gonna stick with my block because that's fine. im just gonna get a new head, which comes in on tuesday

All up for complete head and head gasket kit $730 australian
then when i have it all going good. WEBBER TIME

also whats a good way to get the rear rocker bolt out??? it doesnt want to budge

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 5:54 pm

Stuart

Just remember to get your lux some wooden wheels with the Webber as both rechnologies has been around from about the same era

Tinman · Post by **Tinman** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:30 am

heres the pics u asked for.

Tinman · Post by **Tinman** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:32 am

heres a few more pics

: Definitely blown

: Yip its blown

: That's only 3mm between the cylinder and jacket

: The Gory insides

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:30 am

Hi Stuart,

Yip that's a blown head gasket alright! I'm 100% sure your lux will a much happier lady with the new head on! The file that Richard mentioned is a surface mating file, but I wouldn't recommend it for use on the head or block. I have cleaned the block surface before with a solvent(like thinners) and a light scraper/stanley knife blade, doing the job carefully!

The part I don't enjoy is cleaning the head around the exhaust/intake manifold, those pesky studs are a pain!
B

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:38 am

Thanks for the Pics Stuart :!:

Maybe one of the Mods can do something nice with those photos ;

Will make a great Reference Thread for the average Lux Owner who's never seen his engine.......

Naked

Have also got some good macro shots of my shot gasket and similarly corroded No.4 jacket, once Petrol Head Bretton (Snipes) gets around to downloading them :roll:

Thanks again mate

Rich

Scooter · Post by **Scooter** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:54 pm

Tinman wrote: also whats a good way to get the rear rocker bolt out??? it doesnt want to budge

Stuart, try giving it a "little" tap, the vibrations tends to loosen bolts. Also try leaving a bit of silicon spay etc (wd40 etc) for a day or two.

If corroded, then im afraid the only way is to break it off and drill it out.

Glad you foudn your problem. The lux will be much happier with a new head. :D

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:26 pm

Stuart

Please post a few photos of your old head too

My vehicle's Original Motor looks quite different to the regular 4y's in RSA, I'm wondering if it was an Ausy Spec.

I'm keen to see the top view mate

Rich

Tinman · Post by **Tinman** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:59 am

i got the head bolt off with a 3' torque bar, shows just how tight it was on there.
Hopefully the new head and gasket kits comes in today.
the sooner it comes in the sooner i can let it rip

Tinman · Post by **Tinman** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:49 pm

heres the pics of the new head and assebly

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:55 pm

You Beauty !!!

Very Nice Stuart

Big thanks for posting such awesome pics

Rich

Scooter · Post by **Scooter** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:02 pm

Nice Stuart, Looking good mate.

Just looking at the pics, that engine bay looks way to clean to be a working lux

Seriously though, have you thought about replacing that old points dissi with an electronic one

Would give you even better performance :!:

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:39 pm

Stuart

Can you tell us what state the water inlet flange was in please

Mine was quite corroded, but we salvaged it and used some high temp' grey silicone on the outside - to be safe

Also - my motor didn't have a thermostat

Just the top half of the thermostat was installed; to make use of the rubber seal :roll:

Suffice to say we installed a new Toyota one in the new Korean 4Y

By the way I was keen to see your head as my old one had "unusual" wells in the top - not usually seen on a 4Y in RSA and the "Aussie Spec" was my 1st guess. Does yours have four deep wells on the right hand (manifold) side; when viewed from the top - I can't get a clear look at that area on your photos:?:

Thanks for Posting Stuart, it's great to see how you do things down-under

Rich

Tinman · Post by **Tinman** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:29 am

yeah my head has the bits that u were tlking about.
its so clean at the moment, as soon as i get oil coolant and a filter im off to find some GLORIOUS DIRT ill post some pics of that.
yeah im going to look into an electronic ignition there about $200 aus
mite leave it a bit tho because my dizzie is near new.
What is the BEST oil for the 4y?

Tinman · Post by **Tinman** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:38 am

the inlet flange was slightly corroded but it cleaned up fine and seeled fine.
yes the wells are there in the right manifold
Also is there some easy way to put rockers in becuse we ended up using one way ties and string to hold everythin place, that or u have 10 arms. the string and ties worked well tho.

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:41 am

Tinman wrote:the inlet flange was slightly corroded but it cleaned up fine and seeled fine.
yes the wells are there in the right manifold
Also is there some easy way to put rockers in becuse we ended up using one way ties and string to hold everythin place, that or u have 10 arms. the string and ties worked well tho.

Great News mate :!:

Looking forward to seeing and hearing about you getting down n' dirty with your shiny bitz

Rich

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:35 am

Hi Stuart,

On holding the rocker arms in place on the shaft, I used the long pieces of hard wire left from used rivets(cause they were strong enough), bent the 2 ends down, pushed the ends into the holes on top of the rocker arms to keep them in place, worked perfectly!

Can't wait to hear how she runs!

B

Tinman · Post by **Tinman** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:47 am

sorry ladies and gentlemen but shes not running.
shes got oil and coolant
all plugs are cleeen, all cables r correct it turnes over, fuel is going into the carby.
anyidea people?????

Scooter · Post by **Scooter** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:02 pm

Timing out? rotor in? points opening? Spark?

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:59 pm

Be sure your dizzy isn't fitted 180deg out of position. I caught myself like that once or twice.

Tinman · Post by **Tinman** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:18 pm

k heres the diagnostic report
great spark
good compression
timing is correct
fuel is going into the fuel bowel in the carby

however i remember when ever iv taken the carby off there was a pool of fuel in the manifold, so im thinking bad jets, or something else with the carby. the carby has no choke and both ovcv have been disabled.

im goining to try cleaning the jets on the carby tomorrow.

Tinman · Post by **Tinman** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:21 am

ok all jets are clean
and it runs but it back fired up through the carby.
iv tightened up the manifold nuts however iv got a flat battery (DAMN U MURFY)
im going to get a new battery, and nice big propper one, because mine is a cheap small generic one.
what battery do u guys recomend? my mums has an exide n50 light truck/4x4 which has lasted ages and is great, and iv used it in mine once when i needed 2 move mine when my bat was flat, and it was soo much better.

Post by **Family_Dog** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:06 am

Exide 652 will fit and has somewhat higher capacity than the standard 647. Not sure whether the battery reference numbers in Aus are the same as here, but you can compare the specs & sizes from this PDF chart. The 652 is slightly taller than the original spec 647 battery and you will need a new J-bolt, has to be about 15mm longer than the original one.

Australian Exide: http://www.exide.com.au/products/specifications.php

-F_D

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:28 am

Hi Stuart,

Back firing through the carb is typical of the dizzi shaft/rotor being installed 180deg out. Do you have the instructions to check if it is installed correctly? It's an easy mistake to make... I too have been caught out like this!

B

Scooter · Post by **Scooter** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:12 am

Turn the motor over at the crank unitl No1 is firing and make sure the rotor lines up with the correct spark plug lead.
There should also be a marking line on the dissy itself (with cap off) that shows the correct position for the rotor to line up with.

Worth a look :D

Tinman · Post by **Tinman** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:29 am

ill be checking all what u guys said in a few hours once iv finished some papper work, and then my old battery should be chared.

Tinman · Post by **Tinman** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:33 am

all rotors are fine however there is about half a mm maximum between the bracker at peek, is that correct?

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:35 am

Scooter wrote:Turn the motor over at the crank unitl No1 is firing and make sure the rotor lines up with the correct spark plug lead.
There should also be a marking line on the dissy itself (with cap off) that shows the correct position for the rotor to line up with.

Worth a look :D

This is exactly what caught us out as well. The timing mark is on zero, piston one is at TDC but if you do not check to ensure that the valves are rocking the dizzy may very well be out by 180.

To test this, remove the plug and alu tube at no 1 stick your fingers in the hole and feel the pushrods moving while you turn the motor slowly by hand. Both the pushrods should be down and not move while the engine turns and the timing mark on the crank pulley passes the 0 degree mark.

This is the correct way but experience taught me that if she misfires back through the carb it is normally an indication that she is out by 180 degrees.

Simple check is to quickly take out the dizzy, swing it 180 and put it back in. Swing her now and if the backfiring stopped she should now fire on no1 during the compression/power stroke and not while a valve on no1 is open

Hope she starts now

Scooter · Post by **Scooter** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:13 am

Can always rely on Bennie to give us a better explanation :D

Stuart, the breaker point gap for the 4Y should be 0.45mm so yours sounds good.

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:35 pm

BenHur wrote:
Scooter wrote:Simple check is to quickly take out the dizzy, swing it 180 and put it back in. Swing her now and if the backfiring stopped she should now fire on no1 during the compression/power stroke and not while a valve on no1 is open

For the mechnically challenged guys like me, what Bennie means when he says 'swing it 180 and put it back in':

Take a (very) deep breath, Take the dizzi cap off, take the dizzi lock bolt out, exhale - breath in (fetch a beer)note the position of the rotor, lift the dizzi body up until the rotor shaft can turn freely(disengaged from the worm gear),exhale - breath in (down the beer) turn the rotor shaft 180deg, slide the dizzi body back into place but remember to compensate for the worm gear, cause that will affect where to rotor points once the shaft is back in place... when you done the rotor should point exactly 180deg from where it originally was.exhale (fetch another beer)

Bretton you left out a few steps - I added it in red

and I tweaked it a little more!

:D

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:53 pm

I sense a Bennie spoek!

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:11 pm

snipes wrote:and I tweaked it a little more!

So did I by changing your extra comments to BLUE

and locking you out from your own post so you can not go and stuff it up again

Tinman · Post by **Tinman** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 5:09 pm

Ok guys theres one massive problem with it all
WHAT DO I DO WITH THE OTHER BEER YOU DIDNT SAY TO DRINK THE SECOND ONE!!!!!
I cant do self thought ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
ok ill be checking everything tomorrow afternoon when i get home from work so about 7am ur time
and ill be getting the new battery for it. also, has anyone fitted a 4y with a 34 adf webber because thats wat everyone does here in kangaroo land and i hate my nikki, it must have been put together on a friday after noon.
the webber is $395 australian, and everyone here recons its worth it.

cheers for the advice

Post by **Family_Dog** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:03 pm

I used a 36/36 Weber before the BH-EFI conversion. The Webber provided netter pulling power than the original carb, not much difference in fuel consumption, (both was horrible) and useless on a steep incline. But it sounded very nice!

-F_D

Tinman · Post by **Tinman** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:12 am

hey all
it works but i got carby issues, cos the choke has had it it only runs through one butterfly which aint enough so it dies at low rpm and sounds lik a gattlin gun.

Scooter · Post by **Scooter** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:35 am

Tinman wrote:hey all
it works but i got carby issues, cos the choke has had it it only runs through one butterfly which aint enough so it dies at low rpm and sounds lik a gattlin gun.

You sure you not trying to sell yourself a weber

Eish, it is proving difficult to diagnose over the net on this one. What have you checked and changed so far Stuart

Tinman · Post by **Tinman** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:26 am

ok the carby has been cleaned and all new gaskets and everything.
the problem is that the ovcv is broken so im just not getting enough air/fuel through to the engine.
im going to try making a linkage so as to get both butterflies working in unison,
i just dont want to get stuck anywere because of that carby which has been a lemon since day one.
im gonna try as much as i can with it, however i have driven a lux with a webbered 4y and it definately had more grunt than mine. if only i had the time and expertise to go efi.

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:53 am

Tinman wrote: ......................im going to try making a linkage so as to get both butterflies working in unison,
i just dont want to get stuck anywere because of that carby which has been a lemon since day one.
im gonna try as much as i can with it, however i have driven a lux with a webbered 4y and it definately had more grunt than mine.

if only i had the time and expertise to go efi.

What's the Latest Stuart;

did you get both butterflies working in unison

(Bennie is open to Holidays down-under hey

)

All the best :!:

Rich

Tinman · Post by **Tinman** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:49 am

sorry its been so long
iv fitted a new solenoid and accelorator pump
when i tried it i never sealed it up properly so i think it is leaking, because it keeps dying at low rpm and i ran out of daylight.

HOWEVER, i had a spiffing idea, can the nikki carby and in its place twin 1.5inch SU carbies off a 1100cc mini of which i allready have one, this idea cam from my brothers who never have problems with there mini carbies due to the simplicity of them.
if i can get an identical carby to match my other SU i will go for it, well i do have one but apparently that mini needs it

the plan would be a plenum which bolts onto the original manifold into which the 2 carbs would bolt
ill try and get the nikki working enough so as to get the lux into the workshop, then i can work day and night on the SU idea, if it goes to plan it will be a one of a kind and seriously meen looking beast
ill keep you all posted but ill make up another topic.

Tinman · Post by **Tinman** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:06 am

heres the topic link
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4303