Tracing my vehicle's history

[jafman]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

This is my first post since joining. I would really appreciate some help from you if you can spare the time.

I'm in Karachi, the main port city of Pakistan and have recently splurged on the purchase of a Hilux Raider Heritage Edition V6 4.0 year 2011.

I'm interested in tracing the history of the vehicle if possible.

What I have in my possession is a single document which is the certificate of registration bearing the seal of the Republic of South Africa.

Car dealers in my city are notorious for messing with the mileage on the vehicles that they import and while I'm very happy with the car itself I would like to know just for the record if I've been told the truth.

I'm attaching a picture of the registration document in the hope that one of you can point me in the direction of a website or service which can tell me how much mileage was on the meter before the vehicle left your wonderful country.

The last three license numbers are DC14XKGP NES3166 NO3882

Thanks in advance for your help.

And thanks for letting me join your forum.

[Haboob]

Welcome to the Forum Salman, A certified Toyota Dealer should be able to draw this information off the Toyota dealership website for you...

[Hangover]

I am not familiar with NES and NO registration numbers and i am quite surprised that something is exported from south africa as we normally pay double the price for cars if we just keep Mozambique and Botswana in mind. By the registration price something also looks fishy as i pay around 4 times that amount for registration.

[Thabogrobler]

For a start you can enter the VIN number on www.toydiy.com where it will tell you the basic info.

[jafman]

Thanks Thabogobler.

I got some info from Toyodiy

At least year of manufacture is confirmed along with original destination i.e. South Africa.

I'm interested in the mileage when it left South Africa for my country.

Anyone know a way to find that out?


Below is Toyodiy info:


Market
General,N. America

Year
10/2011

Make
TOYOTA

Model
HILUX

Frame
GGN25

Vehicle characteristics
GRADE: SR: SR TYPE
DESTINATION: SA: SOUTH AFRICA
DRIVER'S POSITION: RHD: RIGHT-HAND DRIVE
CABIN: DCB: DOUBLE CAB
DECK: SD: STANDARD DECK
ENGINE: 1GRFE: 4000CC 24-VALVE DOHC EFI
FUEL SYSTEM: HTWC: HIGH EFFICIENCY TWIN CAM
GEAR SHIFT TYPE: 5FC: ATM, 5-SPEED FLOOR SHIFT
BUILDING CONDITION: CBU: COMPLETELY BUILT UNIT
COLOR CODE: 040
TRIM CODE: FH10

[Mars]

What is the mileage on your Lux?

[jafman]

Meter says just over 27,000

[Rusti]

Hi Salman,

Nice van!

Thats really low mileage.. I can't help trace the mileage etc but 1 thing I look for hear is how the seats and rest of the interior look compared to the mileage.. With your mileage the seats and interior should look brand new.. But if they are stained and dirty and look like someone has sat in them for 100 000km then your mileage has been messed with. Sorry for not being able to give you an accurate way of checking but this might show you some clues.

You probably thought of this already but is there a service book in the cubby hole? A 2011 should also have a service book with the mileage in it. It would raise further suspicion if someone has removed it..

[MCHILUX]

Had a check on the system full service history up to 90 000 km at dealers sold in JHB

[Rebel 4x4]

Seems to me if his meter is sitting at 27 000km, and MCHILUX checked it had full service history up to 90 000km that the oddo was tampered with.

[Hangover]

How nice of those exporting people to make an old car brand new... Car surgery even involved speedo enhancements... I think you should start yelling at these idiots Salman

[jafman]

Rusti, thanks for the message. The interior is quite literally spotless and the seats are all firm. Leather is clean though without the new leather smell. Rest of the interior, including all buttons gadgets pretty much everything gives the impression of matching with the mileage though given MCHILUX's update whoever pimped it knew what they were doing if they brought it from 90,000 to 27,000 and fooled me into thinking it was near enough to the truth. And yes, no service book.

MCHILUX thanks for your effort. Any chance I can get the evidence to show the seller and get him? At the very least to get the dealer to admit his wrongdoing.

I thought the meter may have been tampered with but my estimate of mileage reduction was about 30,000 to 40,000 making my actual mileage estimate about 55,000 to 60,000 at the outside. What got me to the forum was the fact that I looked up a lot of v6 hiluxes for sale on olx.com.za and other auto websites in South Africa to get a feel for the value there. I don't think I saw a single 2011 Raider with less than 90,000 on the meter.

Which is why I smelt a rat and came here to seek help. Thanks for all the help guys. Now if only MCHILUX could (pretty please!!!) send me a scan or a link to support my claim I'd take it to the dealer and give him a good working over.

Thanks again people.

[jafman]

Stef (Hangover)/Thomas (Rebel 4x4)

You're both right, let's see if I can get something done about it.

[Mars]

I am sorry to say that when the license was renewed on 22 Aug 2014 the declared mileage was 110 563. I will not be able to provide you with any documentary proof though. IT was already on dealer stock in May 2014 so it is unlikely that the mileage is any higher.

I was concerned that it may have been a stolen car that was cloned and then sold to you so I did a quick investigation into the matter. At least I can confirm that it was a legitimate export.

I must say that I am surprised that it is possible to export a vehicle from South Africa, with our ridiculously inflated vehicle prices and shipping costs, to Pakistan and still turn a profit.

a Small consolation is that these vehicles are extremely tough and a V6 with 110 000 kilos on is nothing compared to what they are capable of.

I wonder how they turn back the miles on an electronic odo. Probably just switched the cluster. It is also possible that the mileage was already "adjusted" here in SA and then sold on like that to Pakistan.

[Haboob]

I am sorry to say that when the license was renewed on 22 Aug 2014 the declared mileage was 110 563. I will not be able to provide you with any documentary proof though.

Can this information not be copied from the Service Records (Copy & Paste) and mailed to Salman...

[Mars]

My info does not come from the service records. I was looking at it from a law enforcement perspective and unfortunately am not at liberty to provide it.

[jafman]

You've done more than enough Mars.

Thanks a lot for your help.

So I'll cap the investigation here at 110,000 km.

Serves me right for trusting a car dealer at his word.

No worries though.

I would like to say that the machine is mechanically and electronically quite fit. I had it checked at a trusted mechanic and he wasn't able to find anything on the diagnostic computer other than battery voltage irregularity. Denter went over every inch of the car to check for touch-ups/repaints etc. and said it was solid and had never been repaired. I had the machine lifted to inspect the undercarriage and there is literally no rust anywhere on the chassis or the body. South Africans, especially the guy/guys who owned my machine must have been a meticulous person. There's nothing to fault the machine on at all. And I'm a bit of a perfectionist so I agonize over scratches and rust and other blemishes. Engine purrs like a kitten when cruising and roars like a weewee'd-off lion when i punch it.

While i trust that the car must have done 110,000 to me it doesn't feel like its more than the meter so i'll keep thinking of it as 27,000 hahah. It may be as Mars says, that the dealer here was an idiot and someone over in SA played him but I can tell you that dealers in my country are fully capable of doing this themselves.

I guess time will tell whether i made a mistake or not.

You guys are all awesome.

Thanks a lot.

[jafman]

A small note on domestic prices in Pakistan:

A Honda Civic brand new with the top trim costs the equivalent of USD 25,000 (drive-away excluding insurance) here. Hilux D4D Diesel 2KD-FTV VIGO domestic model brand new costs about USD 40,000 (drive-away excluding insurance). Toyota Land Cruiser Prado 2.7 Auto TX (import 2015, model 2011) costs the equivalent of USD 65,000 (drive-away excluding insurance). The import duty structure is insane here. Between 100% and 150% of the vehicle's value depending on displacement. If you want to check out domestic prices here you can visit a site called www.pakwheels.com and check out new and used car prices for yourselves. Bet ours are more exorbitant than yours, hands down.

[ChrisF]

I wonder how they turn back the miles on an electronic odo. Probably just switched the cluster. It is also possible that the mileage was already "adjusted" here in SA and then sold on like that to Pakistan.

Apparently one can order the "unit" on-line to turn back milage on various cars.


There have been a few threads on the other forum about people trading in vehicles and then spotting it being advertised with MUCH less miles .... seems to happen way to often !



PS - at 27 000km the tires should still be in very good nick, AND the spare should be the same brand and virtually brand new ..... Digging deeper the condition of the brakes may give it away as well.

[jafman]

Be Goodrich off road tyres on. Spare is different. Brakes are solid. But I'm guessing they were serviced regularly since MCHILUX says there's a history for the first 90,000 km.

Outwardly there's very little that points to high mileage. I guess maybe a dyno test can reveal how much power the engine has lost. Short of that I can't figure a way to tell. I'll post pictures later to show you what I mean.

[Mars]

Another consolation I forgot to add is that it is a one-owner vehicle, The original owner which was a company sold it onto the second-hand dealer or possibly traded it for another vehicle when it went out of warranty.

[jafman]

Thanks Mars. That brightened my day a bit.

[Rusti]

Salmon I must say that I also had issues with the dealer that sold me my van. He said the tyres were brand new (14 000km on them), the 2nd fuel tank was suppose to be 70l but it's 40l, the alarm went off by itself all day every day and killed the battery that then needed to be replaced etc etc and I was seriously on the war path.. I was advised by family members that had taken their car dealer to court and I just left it alone.. I HATE that I've had to do that but court takes years and it costs money to get lawyers involved. And after all that it's still the best car I've ever owned and almost 2 years later I still get excited to drive it..

I'm just hoping to see the car dealer cross the road in front of me 1 day.. Sorry... I can't wait to see him TRY to cross the road in front of me... Maybe I should go past his shop on weekends...

All the best of luck with your van.. With 110 000km on the clock it's still an amazing vehicle..

[jafman]

Yeah Rusti. I get the same feeling everytime i get a picture of in my head swearing to the mileage being honest.

BTW, I found the service booklet today in the papers that came with the car. I hadn't had time to check all of them when i got the car. Mileage as per service record until July 2014 is indeed 110,481 just as Mars had said. Also, there was a single owner all the way to 110,481 and service was on time for each 10,000 kilometers. Owner appears to be one meticulous person and I thank him/her from the bottom of my heart.

So yeah, now fully established that the dealer lied and also provided documentary evidence against himself.

I do love the machine, however. Its phenomenal and while I was trying to replace a fuse today found out that next to the fuse box there's a UNICHIP also installed. So that made my day.

I guess I'll just leave things where they are and move on.

Thanks all of you for your kind words and help.