33" s on stock hilux

trap4x4 · Post by **trap4x4** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:19 am

Hi Guy's... did a bit of digging but didnt find an answer..... Will 33 x 9.50 inch tires fit on a stock suspension 1990 4 door Hilux?

Thanks in advance....

Scooter · Post by **Scooter** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:21 am

In short travis, NO :!:

AFAIK you will have to firstly move the front axle forward by 35mm or something and secondly you will have to lift the body, 50mm should do. Or else you will have the wheels touching the body.

Im sure there will be more answers to follow.

Here's one or two topics on it:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4534&hilit=33+inch+tyres+on+4y
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2243&hilit=bigger+w ... y&start=20

Post by **JohanM** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:23 am

Welcome Travis!!!!

The 33 " Tyres is a bit big for the standard suspension setup due to the fact that it will catch the body quite badly when cross axle's are encoutered. I know that the front axle is to be moved forward when wanting to use the 33" to your full advantage and also a body lift is highly recomended to clear the tyres.

The max the std suspension can handle without problems is 31" tyres.

ThysdJ · Post by **ThysdJ** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:46 am

Travis, dude Hi there... Yes you can fit 33"s on stock 4door Hilux suspension, BUT you wont be able to drive it. Coenie (King Rat) here on the forum fitted 33"x10.5"x15" BFG Muds on his Lux and drove in town with it for a while (a week) before he had the front axle moved forward by 35mm. Off-road it sucked. The tyres fouled on the wheel arches and the turning circle is just about non existent while articulating.

Short answer, for off-road work, NO, for light on road work MAYBE, in case of emergency only. Do the suspension mods you wont regret it...

trap4x4 · Post by **trap4x4** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:30 am

33 x 9.50 's on the hilux..... get the odd rub...

Scooter · Post by **Scooter** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 7:12 am

Nice Travis. Did you move the axle forward or was there enough room?

Perhaps if there was enoguh room, the spacing is different to our local model

trap4x4 · Post by **trap4x4** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 7:46 pm

Havent moved or done any mods yet... this is a imported JDM, so not sure how different the suspension would be... i thought the running gear was the same as the export tacomas in the states tho.

SYRON CONVERSIONS · Post by **SYRON CONVERSIONS** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:03 pm

Just got to add my moans here as well.......

To fit 33" tires to a std truck, you do not have to move the front axle foreward.

This vehicle in the pic's, does it have the independent fron suspension?

The reason why I say that the front solid axle can be standard is.

You can lift the body by 75 to 80mm.
Then cut away the body metal behind the front wheels. Weld in new plates.
Trim the front fenders as well. Until you have sufficient space for the wheel and tyre to articulate.
With the rear wheels, fit some 2" wheel spaces.
Fit wider fender flares to take up the protusion of the tyres past the fenders.
Fit some wheel spaces to the front wheels as well.

With the moving of the front axle foreward, it is a stuff up with the wheel inclination angles and control of the steering and vehicle, I do not care what other people have to say about my remarks, but these are the facts.

Your vehicle in the pic, if you say that it is still std, cannot and will not articulate correctly and the rear inner side walls of the tyres will touch the chassis, but maybe you only drive through snow.

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:20 pm

Hi Simoan,

I went the route of moving the axle forward, to date I have had no issue whatsoever, no matter what you say... and that's a fact!

B

SYRON CONVERSIONS · Post by **SYRON CONVERSIONS** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:57 am

Snipes wait and see what happens and then you will remember me

King Rat · Post by **King Rat** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:08 am

No issues with my moving the axle forward either, and much cheaper and faster than doing bodywork and that's a fact as a fact can be.

ThysdJ · Post by **ThysdJ** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:15 am

What could go wrong Simoan? Also I have not had any hassles with the axle moved forward. It sure is cheaper and quicker than having the fenders panel-beated.. Also an 80mm body lift is quite severe not so?

SYRON CONVERSIONS · Post by **SYRON CONVERSIONS** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:14 am

Guys I am eating brealfast, just had a quick look here, have to go, busy getting a truck ready for the RWC, will explain negative aspects later on.

cheers

BlumTRD · Post by **BlumTRD** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:51 am

http://www.brian894x4.com/Hiluxdifferences.html

http://www.brian894x4.com/images/ReneChapmanHilux.jpg

If i'm correct this truck is a SFA :wth:

Elke man doen wat hy wil , dus wat ons uniek maak . anders was ons almal
se Lux'e die selfde , hoe boring sou dit gewees het

. Die mens sal nooit altyd
als weet nie :Geek: , elke mense het iets besonders en saam maak dinge werk .

If sombody tells you can't :x , make a point and show that it can be done 8 ) .

Trap4x4 nice Hilux

SYRON CONVERSIONS · Post by **SYRON CONVERSIONS** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:21 pm

The trac bar will touch up against the U-bolt when you turn, there are two options available to sort this problem out.

1. Buy a special trac bar from Supioreengineering in Australia, it is manufactured in such a shape to not touch the U- Bolt.

2. Fit cross over steering.

Yes you guys who only use your vehicle on the tar roads and maybe to the shopping mall might not experience any problems, but when your vehicle is at max articulation the trac bar will touch and thus the "horseshoe arm" can snap, on each end of the trac bar, there are little round ball joints, these joints will wear quickly and they can also snap off.

The anti wrap bar, this is the steel rod with rubber inserted bushes on each end has to be lengthened, some people just leave it off, but the people who lengthen it are messing around with the inclination of the torque related aspect, depending what the person did to the front propshaft, if they did not lengthen it and they just allowed the splines to take up the difference, well they will soon have other worries when they are at full articulation and thus this is why it is not a good idea to move the front axle foreward.

And to make matters worse, you must always remember that it is very dangerous to say to anybody that you can do this or that concerning any part of a vehicle, because if something goes wrong for some reason or the other, people can make you responsible for what you said and can in turn just say that you said that it can be doen or whatever. This is why when guiding a person who is driving his 4x4 off-road, you have to have a little chat with him first, telling him that he is to make the final desicion of his or her actions.

Carry on and make your remarks negative or positive of what I have said, but be warned of moving the front axle foreward on your vehicle.

ToyX4 · Post by **ToyX4** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:46 pm

Here you go again, thinking you're the only one who takes your Hilux off road :!: :!:
The people who commented on this, do actually take their Hilux's off road :!: :!:

Riceburner · Post by **Riceburner** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:11 am

On a SFA I cut 10mm away from the rear of the front wheel arch with a angle grinder. No rubbing at all. Easier than moving the axle forward.

King Rat · Post by **King Rat** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:56 am

SYRON CONVERSIONS wrote:Carry on and make your remarks negative or positive of what I have said, but be warned of moving the front axle foreward on your vehicle.

Thanks for the input.

ThysdJ · Post by **ThysdJ** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:16 am

I must thank you Simoan for your concern, and your advice is duely noted. In my experience, though, after 5 years of having a "moved axle" and doing more off-roading than most guys and probably the same as you. I have never snapped anything, snagged a track-bar on a u-bolt or had any of the other hassles you mentioned. It does, of course, depend on who does the job, and if that person knows what he/she is doing.

Yes I also concur with you that it is not just a matter of moving the axle forward, but that altering the length of the front propshaft should also be considered. Mine was lengthened by the way, and this comes back to the part where the guy who does the job needs to know what he's doing.

If, however, you would rather cut away your body-panels and do some panel-beating, then so be it, but in my humble opinion just moving the axle is a much easier workable solution.

Riceburner · Post by **Riceburner** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:38 am

AllPro Offroad and Marlin Crawler sell thier 4 and 5" lift kits with offset front blades that relocate the front axel to accomodate 35 and larger tyres.

SYRON CONVERSIONS · Post by **SYRON CONVERSIONS** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:07 am

What a wonderful interesting debate we are all having

What next topic are we going to debate about

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:33 am

Hi Simon,

Thank for your comments and concerns, I will take a good look at these pointers when my lux is in a heavy articulation situation(600km away, still running the engine in). Most of the guys in Cape Town rely on Alan for advise and these types of modifications, he has been going the front axle move for many years(10+) and knows what he's doing, and does a proper job. My 4x4 buddy Craig had the axle moved(done by Alan) with 35inch tyres and does extreme obstacles with max articulation without problems!

B

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:51 pm

Thys

Between you and Allan did describe the mod and showed pics of the conversion which did also include shortening the torque rod and pitman arm. But the info is scattered between different topics. Dont you want to combine all the foudies into a nice article which also includes the measurements and a description and then Pieter can move it to the member's article section.

Simon

Welcome back have not seen much of you one the forum lately. But why the attitude? if we are all nice and friendly here we can still differ of opinions without everyone getting into a fight.

Back to the topic, I guess if you simply move the axle without modifying the Pitman and shortening the torque rod and lengthening the prop shaft is is not a good mod, but if it is done like all the ones Allan did it works great. I drove Snipes' van when we were doing his EFI and even on high speed the vehicle is stable there is no bump steer or pitman catching issues.

SYRON CONVERSIONS · Post by **SYRON CONVERSIONS** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 5:45 pm

Why the attitude

Well it seems that I have now caught you all out, from the beginning I was just joking with you all and fooling around, you see there are just too many serious people on these forums, this is why I have kept away for a while, however it seems that some people just cannot take a joke and thus I will not debate anything with you all, as you all know what you are doing. And I have also seen you joking about various topics and giving advice in a joking way before, thus Bingo

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:04 pm

OK you got us all

SYRON CONVERSIONS · Post by **SYRON CONVERSIONS** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:42 pm

Ronny's 1996 Toyota Hilux single cab if you read back somewhere, we also moved the front axle foreward to fit the 33's, but we got our trac bar from Australia and yes what Riceburner said is also correct.

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:04 pm

Ha ha ha... blah blah... Simon you're a funny guy... well almost... I know the air is a little thin in your part of the country...

ThysdJ · Post by **ThysdJ** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:52 am

BenHur wrote:Thys

Between you and Allan did describe the mod and showed pics of the conversion which did also include shortening the torque rod and pitman arm. But the info is scattered between different topics. Dont you want to combine all the foudies into a nice article which also includes the measurements and a description and then Pieter can move it to the member's article section.

Will do so Bennie, gee net eers gou 'n kansie.. Bit busy right now. There are pics on my Photobucket account though, for those who dont want to / cant wait.

Look here:
http://s235.photobucket.com/albums/ee26 ... ech_Stuff/

Sifu-Lux · Post by **Sifu-Lux** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 11:48 am

Hey Thys, how about that promised article? I am feeling motivated to start some mods after not doing much to the Lux for a while.

Thinking Axle move, leaf spring saddle fix (as per Louis), adjustable torque rod, shortened/adjustable drag link, lengthened front prop shaft, and maybe a 25mm body lift to fit some 33's.
So your artical would be valuable

Why do I need to? I don't, but I need a project :D

@Bretton, are you still happy with 33's and no body lift?

Sifu-Lux · Post by **Sifu-Lux** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 12:06 pm

Ah, just found the article on moving the axle forward viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4131&p=45299&hilit= ... xle#p45299

Just a question on the article Thys, why is the one spring saddle locating hole drilled 35mm from standard, and the other one 30mm ?

I didn't see anyting here about making the front prop shaft longer? Is it done by a prop shaft company, or do you make a spacer at one end on the mounting flange?

SYRON CONVERSIONS · Post by **SYRON CONVERSIONS** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 5:59 pm

Remove front propshaft.
Have it lengthened at a propshaft business
They must also re-balance the propshaft
Make sure that they fit the correct nipples
Have them check the double cardan joint, if worn fit a new joint but it must be of a good brand, do not fit a cheap joint.
Check the flange pinion seal and also the flange on the transfer case for leaks. Check that the locking nuts on both flanges are correct.

If you need some more help. just give me a call while you are doing the mod cell 082 499 1924 anytime will be fine.

Sifu-Lux · Post by **Sifu-Lux** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 6:32 pm

Thanks Simon. I have a spare front propshaft and a spare front torque arm, so I may use them for the mods and keep my original ones "original" :shifty:

Will just have to cut and shorten my brand new drag link

Post by **Mud Dog** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 7:30 pm

Sifu-Lux wrote:Ah, just found the article on moving the axle forward viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4131&p=45299&hilit= ... xle#p45299

Just a question on the article Thys, why is the one spring saddle locating hole drilled 35mm from standard, and the other one 30mm ?

I didn't see anyting here about making the front prop shaft longer? Is it done by a prop shaft company, or do you make a spacer at one end on the mounting flange?

The saddle holes are at differing distances since in RSA (or any other LHD country) the left front wheel should be slightly forward of the right one. The reason is to compensate for road camber, since our roads are cambered to the side for water run-off. A perfectly geometrical wheel base will tend to run off to the left all the time. This variance can be as much as 15mm more foprward on the LHS.

Depending on how much suspension lift you have, or how much further forward you move your axle will determine whether you need to lengthen the propsaft. The standard shaft is often adequate for either one or the other. To check after you've done the work, jack the front off the ground on the chassis or cross member so that the axle hangs freely at full extension. The slip-joint on the prop should have at least 30 / 40mm left to go before it slips out of the splines. You would have to mark it's position or measure it at full axle extention and then remove it to check how much the joint was still engaged.
The use of flange spacers works, but is not ideal since this tightens the angles at the universals and stresses them. It's far better to lenghten the shaft (professionally of course).

Hope that helps.

ThysdJ · Post by **ThysdJ** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:10 am

Andy, Andrew and Simoan.. What more is left for me to say??

I drove my previous Hilux (Boggom) with axle moved forward 35mm to accommodate 33" tyres, without lengthening the propshaft. This was with stock suspension. When I fitted the OME suspension , however, it became necessary to lengthen the propshaft. This was done at an engineerig place who also balanced it.

Sorry guys I must actually still get round to doing that article... :wth: :wth: :wth:

Sifu-Lux · Post by **Sifu-Lux** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:10 pm

Andy, I understand that the holes are offset from a straight "parallel" axle reference to allow for road camber, but, that would mean that the original holes are like that. Therefore if you are re-drilling new holes for the axle move, then you have to move each hole by 35mm from its original position. If not, you will either increase the axle parallelism, or reduce it, affecting the road camber compensation either more or less than standard, not so??

Another question, do you need wheel spacers to fit 33x12.5x15, or do the tyres clear the body and suspension at full steering lock? I would be fitting these tyres to 8J Pro-White steel rims.

ThysdJ · Post by **ThysdJ** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:11 pm

As long as the rims you are using has a nice negative offset (deep dish) the tyres will clear the suspension and other goodies at full lock. I drove with 33"s on normal 7J pro-white rims and they touched the suspension at full lock. I remedied that by fitting rims with negative offset and problem solved.

Post by **Mud Dog** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:50 am

Andrew, if you don't have any steering issues like pulling to the left, then drill the new holes at 30 or 35mm both sides. Should be fine. I was just trying to explain in response to you query, the reasoning as I undestand it, why a difference was suggested. Personally I would go with the different measurements, but if you need reassurance, it's easy enough to check with your friendly local wheel alignment centre.

Sifu-Lux · Post by **Sifu-Lux** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:29 pm

I am thinking of pressing out the rubber bushes from the torque arm when I do the mod.

Anybody got any ideas where I can get replacement rubber bushes ??

Am thinking of going the left/right threaded "turnbuckle" mod route, but using a solid steel hex bar and then boring it through on the lathe and tapping a left and right thread in it. This will give a nice outer hex face to use a spanner on to adjust it.

Nickle plate everthing for corrosion and so it looks good

Hex bar material something like this pic

: MAXDRILL_Hollow_Drill_Steel_Bar.jpg (47.17 KiB) Viewed 8654 times

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:33 pm

Sifu-Lux wrote:I am thinking of pressing out the rubber bushes from the torque arm when I do the mod.

Anybody got any ideas where I can get replacement rubber bushes ??

Am thinking of going the left/right threaded "turnbuckle" mod route, but using a solid steel hex bar and then boring it through on the lathe and tapping a left and right thread in it. This will give a nice outer hex face to use a spanner on to adjust it.

Nickle plate everthing for corrosion and so it looks good

Hex bar material something like this pic
The attachment MAXDRILL_Hollow_Drill_Steel_Bar.jpg is no longer available

Andrew

You must press out the rubber bushes if you're gonna cut and weld the knuckles anyway.

They are pretty easy to remove as the bushes are wrapped in a split collet so you will NOT damage them whilst removing and re-inserting them.

Just use a hydraulic press and a drift over the steel core or outer collet

Did you see the Article Mud Dog posted on the Adjustable Torque Rod idea

I followed up on his idea and built a very successful Adjustable Torque Rod from a Merc' Tie Rod and the knuckles off a Hilux Torque Rod - adjustment range allows for the forward axle move too

Sifu-Lux · Post by **Sifu-Lux** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:22 pm

Good to know the bushes have split outer collets. The spare torque rod I have is off an '87 double cab, so I hope the rubber bushes are still OK after 22 years

Will inspect when I strip. Maybe go and do that just now.

If I need to do a body lift, has the petrol filler hose got any slack in it, or must it be loosened, moved up and then re-tightened? Can you get to the rubber filler hose clamps without removing the load body?

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:26 pm

Sifu-Lux wrote: If I need to do a body lift, has the petrol filler hose got any slack in it, or must it be loosened, moved up and then re-tightened? Can you get to the rubber filler hose clamps without removing the load body?

Haven't do a body lift man, my set of 50mm Nylon Spacers are still in their box in the garage :roll:

There's a Topic in the Archives on doing a 50mm body lift on an SFA, try doing a Forum search nê 8 )

Good luck dude

Rich

Sifu-Lux · Post by **Sifu-Lux** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:53 pm

Got my butt in gear today and started preparing for the 33"'s.

Got the torque rod cleaned and sandblasted to see whats going on. Rubber bushes still look OK. Whiles that's underway I decided to clean up my spare front prop shaft when I got home tonight. Some engine cleaner, a scraper and a high pressure clean and voila!

Now, everything feels OK on it, seems to move freely and smoothly. Can this be dis-assembled to inspect the inner double cardon joint? Will lenghtn to suit and balance once the axle is moved.

Placed an order for a set of Kumho 33x12.5x15 KL71's (have to come from Cape Town)

Something like so :D