extended shackles

Cookie Monster · Post by **Cookie Monster** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:36 pm

Hi Guys

I want to lift the back of the van about 40mm any ideas

I got a quote today for longer shackles and they want to charge me R240 ex vat per side and ex labour

I am sure it cant be to dificult to manufacture

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:56 pm

If you can find someone to bend lekker fris flatbar you will be a for away

DOELLOOS · Post by **DOELLOOS** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:06 pm

Goeie bl*#$%sem, kan jy dink watse voorarms 'n ou sal moet he om sulke flatbar te kan buig....

Post by **pietpetoors** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:45 pm

My idea was to just cut the existing shackle in two. Then weld an insert of 40mm on an area where you do not have to bend it. If you are concerned about the strength you can even weld another piece on top of the existing piece with thinner flat bar that can easily be bent. If you give the flat bar a proper v-shape bevel before welding it should be as strong as a solid piece. Just make sure you have good penetration. (on the weld).

Cookie Monster · Post by **Cookie Monster** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 7:08 am

Hi all

My shackles are straight and dont have any bends in them. I am just a little worried about stabilaty due to the length

and another thing how long would they have to be to give me about 40mm

Post by **pietpetoors** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:22 am

I am sure you can use Pythagoras to calculate that.

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:37 am

Justin

That is hard to say, it all has to do with the current angle at which your shackles are positioned. The shackle position gets determined by the linear distance between the blade's connecting bolts. The more curved your blades are the smaller this distance would be and the flatter your blade the longer it will be. Thus with a "shorter blade the shackle will tend to be more upright and the length of the shackle compared to the gain in lift will tend more towards a 1:1 ratio i.e. 20mm length will give 20mm lift. but it the blade is "longer the shackle will be positioned at an angle and you will then have to go to your mother and hope she kept some of your old school books, especially your Trigonometry books so you can use that to determine the length of the shackle.

Or

Make a set of test shackles that are 80-100 mm longer than stock, drill a few sets of holes in them and then test-drive it until you find the right balance between lift and stability that works for you. If you are worried about the shackle's stability, you can weld a piece of flat bar between the two sides to "lock" them together. Just make sure you position it in such a way it does not hinder the movement of the shackle and acts as a bump stop.

Or

If you really want to be smart, you can make a adapter out of thick square tubing (or flat bar welded into a square shape) that bolts in position underneath your chassis and then the stock shackle can mount on this adapter again. I have seen a few okes on the oversees forums do that, and it seems to be a bit more stable then the longer shackles if you are not into building extreme articulation rock crawling vehicles, which is normally not too stable at higher speeds.

The other advantage of doing this is that you can now position the hole where the shackle mounts onto this adapter in such a way that you achieve the best angle for the shackle to be positioned at. Depending on the curvature of your blade, you want the shackle to be standing at almost 45 degrees to allow movement into both directions. This will allow inward and outward travel of the suspension.

If the shackle is too vertical the ride will be more bumpy and the shackle my invert if the wheel drop down too low when off-road and that can bend the blades if the shackle gets locked in an inverted position when the suspension tries to move back to its normal position.

If the shackle is too horizontal the upwards movement of the blades will be limited by the amount of travel before the blade stops against the chassis limiting upward travel of the suspension.

Nevertheless, remember this lift method will also not give you a 1:1 lift ratio as you are only extending one side. If you really want to be smart you can, make a similar adapter for the hanger as well.

Having two adapters per side will allow you to move the axle forward or backward to the ideal position where the slip yoke on the rear prop is also in the best position allowing enough travel in both directions while the suspension articulate. But do not forget to keep the wheels' position with regards to the wheel arches in mind otherwise the vehicle might look awkward or the wheels may rub.

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:42 am

pietpetoors wrote:I am sure you can use Pythagoras to calculate that.

Doesnt Pythagoras only work on perfect triangles? I think you rather need those other swear words to calculate this, remember SIN, COS and TAN

Scooter · Post by **Scooter** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:20 am

Hope to shed a bit of light on the Trig subject:

Trig.pdf: (80.88 KiB) Downloaded 216 times

Post by **pietpetoors** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:54 am

No man. I think you guys make it too difficult. Look at you shackle. I cannot do this in the red tale, so somebody will have to translate:
Die shackle sal jou skuins sy vorm. Trek denkbeeldige kort sy horisontaal en 'n denkbeeldige vertikale sy. Die vertikale sy gaan deur die pin van jou shackle. No meet jy die horistontale sy en jy meet die vertikale sy. Tel 40mm by die lengte van die vertikale sy want dit is hoeveel jy hom wil lig.

Nou vat jy Pythagoras. Kort sy gaan X wees en lang sy gaan Y wees. Dus:
Die vierkantswortel van (X kwadraad plus Ykwadraad) gaan vir jou die lengte van die skuins sy gee. Ek kan nie formules hier tik nie so ek hoop bostaande werk reg.

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:29 pm

Vir petagoeras

om te werk moet die hoeke 45+45+90 of 30+60+90 grade wees of het ek nou weer die kat aan die stert beet:?

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:36 pm

Eish Scooter hoe seer kry my breins nou toe ek daai dokument van jou oopmaak.

Toe ek in 1996 my diploma gevang het het ek myself belowe ek will nooit weer wiskunde doen wat ek nie die antwoorde op jmy vingers en tone meer kan uitwerk nie.

Desimale wiskunde is veels te moeilik, so ek stick maar eerder by binere somme want jy hoef net tot by twee te kan tel

Scooter · Post by **Scooter** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:19 pm

Jammer bennie :!: I need to know this stuff for work, but to tell you the truth I still get confused when I look at it.

Cookie Monster · Post by **Cookie Monster** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 7:02 pm

Mmmm :? Thanks guys for all the help but I what they say a simple guy and when they say A boer maak a plan that discribes me even though I am english :D My GF is afrikaans :D so I think I will make a mock up with holes as Bennie said and decide on what works best and the I will weld a brace between the to to make it really strong

Will post pics as I go along.

Niel · Post by **Niel** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:01 pm

Cookie Monster wrote:I want to lift the back of the van about 40mm

Gents, what will this lift do to you fuel consumtion?

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:55 pm

Niel kom ek verduidelik dit gou vir jou so, op jou IFS worry jy oor fuel consumption, op jou SFA is dit nie 'n faktor nie, met hom worry jy eerder oor off-road ability

Niel · Post by **Niel** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:58 pm

So jy se dus die verbruik gaan redelik op as ek tussen die lyne lees

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:04 am

Nee wat 'n 40mm lift agter sal nie so 'n groot verskil maak nie

DOELLOOS · Post by **DOELLOOS** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:40 am

My advies is om dit eers deeglik te ondersoek. Maak seker oor wat jy alles gaan nodig he. Praat met soveel kundige mense as moontlik, en vat hom dan vir Safari Centre om te doen.

Terwyl hulle besig is kan jy 'n biertjie of twee drink, lekker tv kyk en selfs op die Playstation speel. As jou GF game is kan jy selfs...

Cookie Monster · Post by **Cookie Monster** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:10 am

hehe

Talking about fuel consumption I wonder how much of a difrance a sail covering the load body will make

Niel · Post by **Niel** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:44 am

Some guys remove the tail gate in order to save on fuel. Never done it myself and never got somone to tell me if it works or not.

ToyPiet · Post by **ToyPiet** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:32 am

I have found on fuel consumption it doesn't matter how I rig my hilux.
I tried the following:
1: Only canopy fitted
2: Canopy and roofrack fitted
3: Only roofrack fitted
4: No Canopy and roofrack fitted

Made no major difference to fuel consumption, stil a good 7km/l

ThysdJ · Post by **ThysdJ** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 2:26 pm

The fuel consumption of any vehicle is directly linked to the weight of the driver's right foot.

If you drive a "lifted" vehicle at moderate speeds the effects of the increased wind resistance (due to the lift) on the fuel consumption will be much less than when pushing the vehicle closer to the limits ....

ToyPiet · Post by **ToyPiet** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:06 pm

why would a lifted vehicle use more fuel than a non lifted vehicle, the air footprint is still the same except for the little bit more tyres that will be visible?

A lifted vehicle will sit higher but there will be a bigger gap between the vehicle and the ground. It is not like you added extra body panels that create more drag!

or am I missing something?

DOELLOOS · Post by **DOELLOOS** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:24 pm

Die hoogste bome vang die meeste wind...

ThysdJ · Post by **ThysdJ** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:46 pm

Fuel consumption or the deterioration thereof when you extend the shackles should not be your main concern. Stability of the vehicle at high speed or in windy conditions should be the main consideration. Unless you do crawling and cross serious obstacles it is really unnecessary to extend shackles for extra lift. A standard SFA Hilux with 31" tyres is pretty much high enough to clear most obstacles.

Post by **Family_Dog** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:46 pm

Justin,

Riceburner is selling a set of Hi-Lift shackles for a Hilux...

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=968

-F_D

cprinsloo · Post by **cprinsloo** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:08 pm

Hi,

Simon talked about revolver shackles at some time. Anybody have any photos?

Cheers,

Chris

DOELLOOS · Post by **DOELLOOS** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 7:18 am

The Revolver shackle allows free movement of the axle in a vertical manner, netting a more comfortable ride. The articulation it gains comes close to, if not exceeding, what you get out of a coil conversion. We all know the price we pay for those kits. They are expensive conversions that require professional installation most of the time and then add on to the price of the kit itself. It can get expensive quickly.

cprinsloo · Post by **cprinsloo** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 8:10 am

Thx man,

Any idea what the cost of this shackles are?

Cheers,

Chris

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 8:36 am

To import then is expensive. Hendrik Fourie (Ostilion http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/member.php?u=485) on the community forum makes them locally at an engineering business at much better prices. Contact him if you are interested.

Just remember to be able to use them you would also need longer travel shocks in the rear otherwise downward articulation will be limited by the shock's length.

I am seriously considering getting myself a set of revolvers in future. I was even thinking of making the top mounting of the shock to be revolving as well similar to the shackle, so that if the shackle opens the shock mount simultaneously move to enable the suspension to articulate fully on a standard length shock, but this is still just a theory in my head, I have not seen anyone implement such a system yet, so I am not 100% sure if it will work

Cookie Monster · Post by **Cookie Monster** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 8:56 am

Hi FD

Thanks for the heads up but they look a little short

for the rear as mine apear to be just as long the ones Riceburner has for sale ar fitted to the front and my front is high enough. Bennie I will check it out.

There was a guy yesterday at the compo with a standard Nissan Sani single cab 4x4 who tryed one of the obsticals and he got so stuck they needed a tractor to get him of. This was all because of ground clearance. Of course everyone had a good laugh

.Anyway I am sure my van would have made it just the way it is

The reson I want to lift the back is purely asthetic not that she is sagging I thing it will just look better. I will post a pic a little later of her side on then you can tell me what you think.

Cookie Monster · Post by **Cookie Monster** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 7:10 pm

Side pic of the van what do you guys think about the rear hight :roll:

Post by **Family_Dog** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 7:25 pm

Seems to be higher than mine, mine seems to be nose-up?

-F_D

Cookie Monster · Post by **Cookie Monster** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:51 am

Hi FD

Looks like you have the same "problem" I do if it is a problem what do the other guys think? If I were to lift the back by 40mm how much better would my departure angle be?

Scooter · Post by **Scooter** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:14 am

Don't forget that the difference in fender shape gives the illusion of the vehicle being "nose high".

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:26 am

Justin

Before lifting too much try this first:

It is difficult to see from the pic but I suspect yours is suffering from a similar problem mine had, in which the rear of the load bin seems like it is sagging. I loosened the body mounts on the loadbin and added a few spares (washers/flatbar with holes etc) in there to lift/tilt the load bin somewhat. Stand a distance away and then check the lines in the loadbin vs the cab to make sure the rear is not sagging. Also check the lines between vertical the load box and the cab. A small adjustment here can make a huge difference in the overall apprearence. I added about 25mm at the rear mounts and 15mm at the middle ones to get mine right.

To improve the departure angle you can also move the Tow Bar inwards (closer to the rear axle) as far as possible without compromising the protection it gives on departure. Make sure it is properly secured so that it will not move upwards if it is slammed from beneath.

If you then still feel it needs a lift start by lifting 20mm only as 40 might be a bit extreme.

Eric same goes on yours.

SYRON CONVERSIONS · Post by **SYRON CONVERSIONS** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:23 am

Double twist, lockable revolver shackles work for me, but there are a few things to consider before you just go our and buy yourself a pair for your vehicle, some measurements are required that you have to consider, this is very important.

1. Measure the bracket that is welded under the chassis, width.

2. Measure the width of the spring main leaf blade the one that the shackle pin goes through, also te width.

The imported type chassis this is the one with the imported type axles normally are suitable for the type of revolver shackles that we have used. Depending where you get your revolver shackles from, you can also buy the chassis bracket from the supplier as well, a real female dog to remove the brackets that are already welded onto the chassis, we used an angle grinder and also The Plazma Cutter.

Ramkat · Post by **Ramkat** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:38 am

Family Dog,

The owner of a business called Warthog in Klerksdorp has a very nice looking silver Hilux with extended shackles, he should be able to give some feedback on how it affects handling etc.

Maybe you can speak to him and let us know what he says?I've also been thinking of extending shackles on my bakkie.

Niel · Post by **Niel** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:52 am

Ramkat

I see you have a Dobinsons suspension. Can (and how) you compair it with the rest i.e. Bilstein, OME .....

Ramkat · Post by **Ramkat** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:38 am

Niel wrote:Ramkat

I see you have a Dobinsons suspension. Can (and how) you compair it with the rest i.e. Bilstein, OME .....

I bought the bakkie with the Dobinsons leaf springs, gives the same lift as OME.I'm happy with it, except that the ride is very hard, not nearly as soft as OME.If one day i want to replace the leaf springs, i will go for OME.

Niel · Post by **Niel** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:50 am

Thanks, have you used OME before?

Ramkat · Post by **Ramkat** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:54 am

Not on my own vehicle, only seen it work and driving in bakkies with OME.

Niel · Post by **Niel** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:56 am

Thanks, ssems the market believe in OME

Mikem1 · Post by **Mikem1** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:49 am

good day

the ext shackles i sell are 50mm longer they only raise 25mm though remember the shackle angle has to remain at a negative angle it is a job you can do yuorself jack the wheels up till of ground then let the wheels just touch the ground and you remove the shackle and change over to the new ones the best is also to make a small spacer to put between the spring pack and tha axle ideally replace leaf spring pack to gain your height reaquired

Post by **Family_Dog** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:53 pm

Ramkat wrote:Family Dog,

The owner of a business called Warthog in Klerksdorp has a very nice looking silver Hilux with extended shackles, he should be able to give some feedback on how it affects handling etc.

Maybe you can speak to him and let us know what he says?I've also been thinking of extending shackles on my bakkie.

Hi Ramkat,

That would be Johnny. Yep, I have been speaking to him. I think he has sold that Hilux though, the SFA that stood in front of his shop? Haven't been there for a while, I should stop & say hello. He fitted the NudgeM to my SFA, did a good job, and then 4x4Mehga world did the suspension to both the other Hiluxes. The SFA crawled like a crab after the suspension upgrade, it would appear they did not send it for wheel alignment afterwards, but I took it to Champion in Stilfontein and Juan sorted that out for me.

I will chat Johnny, my SFA always looks as if it is going uphill, I thought the new ONE would cure that, but it accentuated it! Little bit better now that I've removed one leaf from each front wheel though.

-F_D

Ramkat · Post by **Ramkat** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:30 pm

Ja, die bakkie het altyd voor die shop gestaan.
As jy se' dit lyk of jou bakkie opdraande loop, verwys jy daarna dat sy gat hang?Dis mos 'n ou kwaal van die SFA.

Post by **Family_Dog** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:58 pm

OK, so dit is heel normaal dan!

Ek dink amper Johnny het daardie Hilux teruggekry, kan miskien verkeerd wees maar ek is seker ek het dit weer gesien so 'n maand terug toe ek laas daar was.

-F_D

Cookie Monster · Post by **Cookie Monster** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:37 pm

Hi Guys

Still busy with this project not sure if I need it though :?

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:17 pm

I received the pair of longer shackles for Eric's Hilux tonight.

These ones have 3 sets of holes to play wit the ride hide with. From the prototype set we saw that shackles that is 100mm longer gave us a 40mm lift. I will now play with the other sets of holes as well to see what difference it gives.

They still need a coat of paint before installation but this is how they look.

Justin if you are interested I can get you a set just like this for R 750. I may even have someone that will be coming to PE soon ( somewhere in March) who can deliver them to you if you are still interested.

Post by **CasKru** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:50 am

Bennie,

Jy se daai is R750 per set. Is dit 'n set van twee? Kan ek voor en agter dieselfde shackles gebruik en sal ek nuwe bushes moet kry (ek sien die is greassble)

Cookie Monster · Post by **Cookie Monster** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:55 am

Hi Bennie I may be I will let you know

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:14 am

Cassie nee daai is net die 2 agter, dis bietjie extreme vir voor. Voor moet mens ander dinge ook in ag hou soos die hoek op die propshaft wat gaan vergroot en nie verklein soos agter nie.

Gedink ek sal later van tyd speel met 'n kit voor wat 'n extension op die hanger ook insluit en jou toelaat om die as so bietjie vorentoe te skuif. So ver het ek nog net gesien die ouens sny hulle hangers met 'n grinder, druk 'n spacer in en weld dit weer vas, maar ek like nie die idee van sny en weld op my suspensie nie. Ek sal eerder iets wil he wat kan vasbout.

Die agter shackles in die prentjie se verste gat is 190 mm uitmekaar die standaard shackle is 85mm so hullle gee jou 105mm lengte gain wat Buldog se gat 40mm gelig het. Maar dis die meeste wat ek sal gaan alhoewel ek al ouens gesien het wat meer doen.

Ek sal bietjie prys kry by Van Zyl Springworks op Polyurethane bushes, maar jy het nie nodig om die busches te vervang as joune nie geslyt is nie. Maar obviously is poly bushes beter as origionals, maar joune is seker al vervang toe jou suspension gedoen is.

Post by **CasKru** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:23 am

Thanks Bennie man. Ek weet nie of my bushes replace is nie maar kan seker maar check as ek nie te lui is nie

Ek sal like om langer shackles agter in te sit al is dit net vir 'n ekstra 30mm. Hoe maklik is dit om daai shackles in die hande te kry?

As jy nou klaar is met daai kit vir voor (wat vasbout) sal ek ook een van daai vat :)

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:48 am

As jy wil hÃª laat maak ek vir jou 'n stel, skree net.

Gaan ons jou wa gebruik as Guiney pig vir die voor suspension?

Post by **CasKru** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:58 am

Ons kan daai ding doen solank ons net nie irreprable damage doen nie..(like glad nie van cut and weld nie) want daai tipe welds breuk altyd (in my opinie)

Weet jy dalk of safari shocks ekstra lengte shackles sal kan handle?

Post by **Family_Dog** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:24 pm

Bennie,

Those look fab!! Verrrry nice :)

I have to go to Zeerust Koppie soon to work on our Repeater site, but am trying to stall until I get Bulldog back. Zeerust Koppie is my official "testing" ground. It's on Army property and the Army guys reckon that a normal 4x4 won't make it, we would have to use one of their vehicles. Surprised them, both my Hiluxes made it, although the 2.7 did scrape a bit in one place

Would be lekker if you came along, I really would like to show you the Doornrivier route (not the same 'trail' as above), but then you would probably like to stay over at the river for the weekend and we can make it a weekend trip.

-F_D

pampoen · Post by **pampoen** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:15 pm

Hi does anyone know were they sell those revolver shackles

i cant seem to get access to this site to contact Hendrik Fourie.....(Ostilion http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/member.php?u=485)

Post by **CasKru** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:37 pm

If ou don't mind importing you can get from http://www.snakeracing.com.au

Post by **pietpetoors** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 6:02 pm

Pampoen, ask Simon ( memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=6 )
I know he once posted something about revolving shackles and he also knows where to buy them.