Nog n 2.7i gechip vandag........

[Jxjdm]

Het vanoggend my bakkie by RBTS afgelaai vir Uni-Q chip & dyno.
My bakkie het nog die std exhaust op, maar het n custom induction op wat ek hier by die shop aan mekaar geslaan het. Die filter moet nog gebox word om te help teen enjin hitte stof modder ens..... Bakkie het 31" Bridgestones op.

Hy was nie te sleg voorheen nie, maar ek het gevoel die ding is maar baie pap onderlangs, en dis al wat ek wou beter kry vir nou met die chip.
Die dyno graph wys WIEL KW en FLYWHEEL NM, voor die dyno (rooi) en na die dyno (blou).

Tyd verloop: 8 uur in, 1 uur klaar!
Koste: R2850-00

ek is met die resultate. Die bakkie loop sommer baie beter onderlangs.....

IMG-20120119-00149 (Small).jpg (18.59 KiB) Viewed 3669 times

IMG-20120119-00150 (Small).jpg (20.71 KiB) Viewed 3669 times

[Donkey]

Hi Jake, will you please moniter the fuel consumption and give some feedback? Just out of curiosity

[Jxjdm]

Hi Jake, will you please moniter the fuel consumption and give some feedback? Just out of curiosity

Doing just that at the moment Donkey.. it will be urban consumption though, as i rarely use highways etc....

[Donkey]

Cool hoping for some improvements!

[Jxjdm]

Me too.... so far so good.

[Jxjdm]

Hi Jake, will you please moniter the fuel consumption and give some feedback? Just out of curiosity

Fuel: Engen 95
Km/L: 7.32
L/100km:13.69
Mostly Urban driving, and some highway driving. All at national speed limits.

[dalkill]

i've always wondered about those readings.
it seems NM peaks at +-2500rpm, where as KW peaks at 4000rpm.

So where should one aim at when driving areas with alot of hills, like the N2 down to arniston / witsands ?

[pietpetoors]

Shaakir I find that between 120 and 130km/h is the best. I think that is between 3000 and 3400 revs.

If you drive a road like the N2 and you try to do it at 100 or 110 then it has no power and actually uses more fuel than at 120 to 130

If you go over 140 fuel consumption drops dramatically
Try to aim at 125 (where the road permits), for me I get my best balance between consumption, ease of ride and driving time there.
If you are on holiday driving through the Karoo enjoying the scenery, 90 to 100 is the way to go.

[george]

Shaakir I find that between 120 and 130km/h is the best. I think that is between 3000 and 3400 revs.

If you drive a road like the N2 and you try to do it at 100 or 110 then it has no power and actually uses more fuel than at 120 to 130

If you go over 140 fuel consumption drops dramatically
Try to aim at 125 (where the road permits), for me I get my best balance between consumption, ease of ride and driving time there.
If you are on holiday driving through the Karoo enjoying the scenery, 90 to 100 is the way to go.

Piet I agree with you.i drive the 2.7 more on the rev counter.I try and keep it over 3000rpm an then it feel s good.You also have to "attack" the hills.Drop a gear early and then it cruises out. Must say if this motor had some more low down torque it probably would be close to perfect

[pietpetoors]

I am also playing around with the heat and cooler air
That metal air intake pipe which runs over the tappet cover, it has a tank which is located next to the tappet cover just above the exhaust manifold.
Apparently that is for vehicles in Europe to get up to temperature quicker.
This is not my idea, heard it from Willem 3RZ , but last week had that tank removed and we closed the hole where the tank was. The two pipes on the tank we welded directly on the pipe.
I did that to get cooler air into the engine.

I can feel that it has more power lower down, looses less speed on uphills and the power is more constant. I dont know if other 2.7's does the same, but previously mine was a bit dead and then at 3400 revs it all of the sudden got more power, feels like the second stage on a 36 Weber that opens. Now with that pipe removes that effect is not there anymore, it just pics up power constantly.

Maybe you guys who plays around with the dynos can have such a pipe made and then test it and see what the results are with the standard pipe (with tank) and the modified pipe without the tank

My second stage of this development which I will do today:
That tank is mounted on a bracket next to the head. I will take a 3mm Aluminium checkered plate and attach that to the bracket in order to shield off more heat.

[george]

this sounds quite promising. i hope you are doing a proper write up :wink2:

my engine also do the same on 3400 rpm.

[pietpetoors]

I will as soon as I tested it more. I did not think it would make such a big difference on the low end power but was suprised.

I would love to compare the same vehicle on a Dyno with the two different pipes.

Willem 3RZ just mentioned that his is more thirsty than before, but he also did other mods at the same time and is not sure if it was due to this pipe modification. I filled both tanks on Tuesday especially for a consumption test.

Willem also took those shiny heat shield pipe they use on industrial air conditioner pipes and put that over the rubber air intake pipes in order to shield the air intake more from the engine bay heat.

[Jxjdm]

I experimented recently with a straight 63mm pipe direct from the throttle body to a "cone type filter", and attached the Fuel pressure regulator to the Manifold vacuum port(which is normally blocked off on the 2.7 i's.....) Why Toyota ever put this "vacuum pipe" leading to the fuel pressure regulator BEFORE the throttle body,where almost NO vacuum is present, is beyond me...... Does any body here know the reason for this?
Anyhow...... With the straight 63mm Stainless Steel pipe and filter(which obviously has less restriction than the OEM filter) Low and high end "feel" was more pronounced, but the Flat spot that Pieter mentioned above, was more pronounced between 3000-3800rpm. At 3800rpm its almost as if u were driving with the handbrake on, and then released it!!! When i purchase my Lux... it had this damn "cone" filter in place, with a flex like plastic tube, and the OEM filter & housing was missing.............

This Flatspot could not be "tuned" out with the Uni-Q either, so i'm guessing it has definately got something to do with the airspeed going onto the motor.... which actually makes a bit of sense. The std 3RZ intake manifold being designed for low-mid range torque (long primary runners on the manifold and a small plenum and throttle body) may just simply not want an ample supply of air, and some sort of reversion occurs in the intake tract......................
hmmmmmmmmmmmmm back to the drawing board!!! LOL... gonna experiment with various diameter venturis and placement of these venuris in the intake pipe, to try overcome this issue................

I have not driven any other 2.7i's yet (except the vvti's) and when i read Pieters comment about the flat spot... a little light went on!!! haha!

[pietpetoors]

Do you think the fact that mine has a snorkel on which forces air into the intake can be the reason why my flat spot is gone after fitting the straight pipe where yours has been worse after fitting the flat pipe

[pietpetoors]

Jake, while it seems like you know what you are talking about, I want to move those things where the plug leads go into (in the olden days we had a coil now these things).
I want to move it to the firewall just behind the engine (at the top). Their current position is an extremely stupid design for a 4x4 because the moment you hit some water the fan and fanbeld spray them with water and then you get a serious misfire.

Can one just move them?

[JohanM]

Do you think the fact that mine has a snorkel on which forces air into the intake can be the reason why my flat spot is gone after fitting the straight pipe where yours has been worse after fitting the flat pipe

Pieter, my logic says that the box that you removed and closed of on the intake pipe combined with the ram effect of the snorkel will definately be the major player in the fact that your enigne is more responsive. Also seeing that the box had a "turbulence" effect when air is forced through the snorkel as it gets more air and first circulate it through the box and part goes direct to the throttlebody and intake which will cause the motor to feel partly "suffocated" at low speeds.

[Piesang]

Do you think the fact that mine has a snorkel on which forces air into the intake can be the reason why my flat spot is gone after fitting the straight pipe where yours has been worse after fitting the flat pipe

Het iemand al ooit 'n turbo op die 2.7 probeer sit of gaan dit nie werk nie

[pietpetoors]

Nee Pieter, die super charger is beter opsie vir die 2.7 , maar kos 'n paar sent
Die Alpine lae druk super charger bout net aan en jy hoef niks anders te verander nie
maar teen ongeveer R23,000 leer ek eerder geduld aan

Die voordeel van super charger bo turbo is dat die super charger vir jou meer krag gee van laag tot hoog regdeur en turbo gee tipies eers teen hoë revs vir jou meer krag wat nie is wat jy in 'n 4x4 soek nie

[Piesang]

Nee Pieter, die super charger is beter opsie vir die 2.7 , maar kos 'n paar sent
Die Alpine lae druk super charger bout net aan en jy hoef niks anders te verander nie
maar teen ongeveer R23,000 leer ek eerder geduld aan

Die voordeel van super charger bo turbo is dat die super charger vir jou meer krag gee van laag tot hoog regdeur en turbo gee tipies eers teen hoë revs vir jou meer krag wat nie is wat jy in 'n 4x4 soek nie

Ok nou leer 'n doppie ook

R23k is nogal baie om uit tehaal op een salg, maar ek sal darm laaik om dit te doen.

Pieter daai deel van die ontsteking wat jy wil skuif, ek reken as dit nie meganies van die masjien af aan gedryf word nie, kan jy dit seker eenige plek na toe skiuf.

[Jxjdm]

Jake, while it seems like you know what you are talking about, I want to move those things where the plug leads go into (in the olden days we had a coil now these things).
I want to move it to the firewall just behind the engine (at the top). Their current position is an extremely stupid design for a 4x4 because the moment you hit some water the fan and fanbeld spray them with water and then you get a serious misfire.

Can one just move them?

Yes Pieter, jy kan die coil packs skuif na enige plek waar die plug drade standaard sal bykom. Sal net die elektriese conneksies moet verleng, en die lasse ordentlik seel met "shrinktube".....

[Jxjdm]

Het iemand al ooit 'n turbo op die 2.7 probeer sit of gaan dit nie werk nie

Ek is besig om n kit saam te stel v my Lux op die oomblik...... Sal hoofsaaklik v padgebruik wees, maar mens weet nooit...

Hier is die link: viewtopic.php?f=93&t=23143" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[pietpetoors]

AH HA, dis waar ek die prentjie gesien het met die coils wat net agter bo die engin sit, dis daai turbo prentjie van jou

[Jxjdm]

Yup..... maar daai een op die prentjie, was n custom build gewees oorsee. Jou STD coilpacks kan ook geskuif word, nes daai... Probeer die STD plugdrade hou, vir ingeval jy n stel moet vervang in die toekoms!!!!! Jy kan wel Nr 1 & 4 se drade ruil met mekaar, (om orals waar hul moet wees by te kom) sowel as 2 & 3 s'n. Maak net seker dat #1 op die coil na #1 cyl gaan, #2 na #2 cyl ens

[pietpetoors]

Ek dink dit gaat maklik wees want die harnas llop van agter die engin na voor
Dus moet ek net die harnas oopsny en daardie drade uithaal, ek gaan glad nie aan die drade hoef te sny nie
As hulle te lank is sal ek hulle sommer net oprol

Ja, gekyk as ek 1 en 4 en 2 en 3 se drade net ruil sal hulle bykom

[pietpetoors]

What is this thing? It is something plugged into a plug and is near the coils?

What is this

[Jxjdm]

What is this thing? It is something plugged into a plug and is near the coils

Nie heeltemal seker nie Pieter, maar dit lyk v my soos n tipe ballast resistor of iets.... heel moontlik om krag na die coils te beheer. Sal more gou in die manual kyk en seker maak.....

[Piesang]

What is this thing? It is something plugged into a plug and is near the coils?

move-hilux-coil (7).JPG

Dis een van daai goed wat hul insit net sodat ons die voertuig na die profesionele manne toe moet vat

[bostokkelos]

smaak my julle groot manne maak uit van rondspeel! Baie interresant gewees! Ek sit met die selfde dooie kol op my 2.7 op lae revs. As ek julle reg verstaan sal dit verbeter as ek n snorkel opsit? Ek het nogni vasgetrap met plugdrade wat natgeword het nie, maar n trippie deur n transkei riviermond het skade gemaak in my fuse boks!! Gan beslis daai ding goed seel voor ek weer die water aanvat!! Het julle nou al tot konklusie gekom of daai hilux 2.7 chip die brandstof verbruik verbeter? Ek trap vas op 6km/l met 31' BF Muds op! Maak nogal die beursie seer op die lang pad!

[Hannes Meyer]

Dit is iets wat ek ook na sal gaan kyk

[Jxjdm]

Het gister n chat gehad met Ross wat al my dyno werk doen. Hy se sekere Toyota's het tot 18 fuel en timing maps op die ecu's gelaai deur die fabriek. Afhangende van toestande, altitude ens, sal die ding nou die beste "map" kies op daai stadium om te gebruik.... hy is nog nie seker of die 2.7i's ook die stelsel gebruik nie.
Wat hy wel met my Lux opgetel het op die dyno toe hy die chip gedoen het, is dat die ecu die engine baie lean (tot 15:1!) laat hardloop van +- 3000 tot so +- 3600rpm, en dan skielik die mengsel weer ryker maak. Hy reken dit kan iets met n "cruise map" of so iets uit te waai he.
Nou.... die probleem kom hier in! Omdat die Uni-Q chip n piggy back is, en basies net die OE ecu se seine modify, word die "lean-> rich" stadium ook beinvloed. As hy byvoorbeeld die "lean" deel ryker maak, en dus meer krag maak, raak die engine veels te ryk waneer die ecu oor swaai na die "ryk" map toe op +-3600rpm!!!!

Wat ons volgende wil probeer, sal so bietjie kopkrap vat.... Die Uni-Q het die capability om meer as een map te hardloop, en ook sodoende tusen die maps te kan swich. Basies wat ons wil probeer doen is een map hardloop van idle tot +- 3000rpm, en dan oorswaai na n ander map net voor die ecu self sy enrichment doen. As ons die integrasie van die twee maps se swich over points reg kry, sal die resultaat n gladde kurwe gee, wat heel moontlik dan daai "flatspot" behoort te elimineer.
Ons het die selle metode al vorens op die Honda Vtecs gedoen met uitstekende resultate... ( Vtec motors skakel oor van n normale cam na n high lift cam in die middel van sy rpm range, en fueling op daai switchover point kan nogal n nagmerrie wees)
So hou duim vas asb... as die ding werk, soos ek dink hy sal, kan ons vir n klomp 2.7i eienaars n oplossing bied vir daai FLATSPOT in die middel vd revrange. Brandstof verbruik behoort ook dan beter te wees, sienende dat ons nie meer soveel lepel moet trap om iewers te kom nie..................

[Piesang]

Het gister n chat gehad met Ross wat al my dyno werk doen. Hy se sekere Toyota's het tot 18 fuel en timing maps op die ecu's gelaai deur die fabriek. Afhangende van toestande, altitude ens, sal die ding nou die beste "map" kies op daai stadium om te gebruik.... hy is nog nie seker of die 2.7i's ook die stelsel gebruik nie.
Wat hy wel met my Lux opgetel het op die dyno toe hy die chip gedoen het, is dat die ecu die engine baie lean (tot 15:1!) laat hardloop van +- 3000 tot so +- 3600rpm, en dan skielik die mengsel weer ryker maak. Hy reken dit kan iets met n "cruise map" of so iets uit te waai he.
Nou.... die probleem kom hier in! Omdat die Uni-Q chip n piggy back is, en basies net die OE ecu se seine modify, word die "lean-> rich" stadium ook beinvloed. As hy byvoorbeeld die "lean" deel ryker maak, en dus meer krag maak, raak die engine veels te ryk waneer die ecu oor swaai na die "ryk" map toe op +-3600rpm!!!!

Wat ons volgende wil probeer, sal so bietjie kopkrap vat.... Die Uni-Q het die capability om meer as een map te hardloop, en ook sodoende tusen die maps te kan swich. Basies wat ons wil probeer doen is een map hardloop van idle tot +- 3000rpm, en dan oorswaai na n ander map net voor die ecu self sy enrichment doen. As ons die integrasie van die twee maps se swich over points reg kry, sal die resultaat n gladde kurwe gee, wat heel moontlik dan daai "flatspot" behoort te elimineer.
Ons het die selle metode al vorens op die Honda Vtecs gedoen met uitstekende resultate... ( Vtec motors skakel oor van n normale cam na n high lift cam in die middel van sy rpm range, en fueling op daai switchover point kan nogal n nagmerrie wees)
So hou duim vas asb... as die ding werk, soos ek dink hy sal, kan ons vir n klomp 2.7i eienaars n oplossing bied vir daai FLATSPOT in die middel vd revrange. Brandstof verbruik behoort ook dan beter te wees, sienende dat ons nie meer soveel lepel moet trap om iewers te kom nie..................

As jy dit regkry is jy ons almal se Hero

[pietpetoors]

So if they loaded 18 maps it means that there are 18 "lets guess the best one" maps and not one that has been tuned for that specific engine. So that is then why it is better to put in an aftermarket chip and have it tuned specific for your engine ?

[Jxjdm]

Ek verstaan self nie altyd heeltemal mooi wat hy daarmee bedoel het nie Pieter..... DIE dyno ouens is mos soos rocket scientists en dink almal is op hul level met betrekking tot die goed........ wat hy wel genoem het as voorbeeld is die Toyota 20 valve Rsi's & Rxi"s. Die goed het 18 maps, en jy weet nooit met watter een van die 18 maps jy besig is om the modify met die chip nie........... dus is n unichip gewoonlik n mors v geld op die Voertuie.......

Ons wag nou net v n bietjie stillerige dag daar by hom, dan gaan ons daai dual map trick bietjie try.......

Hou jul almal op hoogte sodra ek enige resultate het....

[Hannes Meyer]

:boredom:

[Theodorus]

Pieter ek ry n 2.7 ifs 2004 het ek ook daai heat pyp wat julle van praat


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=-24.207704,28.729806" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Mylux

[Jxjdm]

Gister toe ek ry om my dogter by die skool op te tel, voel ek die Lux van my se "flatspot" raak erger en erger.... Terug gekom by die werkswinkel, wil die Lux vrek sodra jy die accelarator raak, maar idle en start 100%.....
Eerste gedagte is dat daar moontlik iets fout is met die Chip..... instaleer gou die Bypass plug, maar dinge bly dieselfde...
Lang storie kort, ek check toe gou die fuel pressure....................... n hele 1 bar!... en as ek die return feed na die tenk toeknyp, dan BLY hy op 1 bar...........
Laat sak toe die tenk gister middag laat, en verwyder die pomp. In my laai het ek n WALBRO 255 pomp at ek gewoonlik op die Turbo Honda's gebruik. (Die pomp is identies dieslefde as die Toyota pomp, behalwe dat hy so 8mm langer is, en die electric plug groter terminale het.)
Sit die Walbro in, maak als weer vas, en draai die sleutel. Die bakkie vat eerste keer, en idle soos stroop..... check die fuel pressure, 3bar op idle, en amper 6 bar as ek die return toe knyp!!!! Gaan ry met hom n draai, en voel sommer dadelik een helse verskil teenoor waaraan ek gewoond was .... die bakkie trek somme sterker, loop gladder, en beste van als..... DAAI FLATSPOT IS WEG!!!! heeltemal weg.

Nou myne kan moontlik net n uitsondering wees tot die norm, soos bo in vorige replies genoem deur ander 2.7i eienaars, tov die flatspot tusen 3000 & 4000 rpm. As daar iemand anders anders is wat selle probleem het en so iets wil probeer(pomp verander), laat weet asb hier op die forum wat die resultate was. Dit sal nogal interesant wees, as die flatspot probleempie met die 2.7i's, iets simple soos n substandaard pomp kan wees......

[pietpetoors]

Dis nou vir jou 'n ding, sal beslis in gedagte hou.

[Hannes Meyer]

wat is die standaard pomp se druk teenoor wat jul in het? Wat se besonderhede het mens nodig om die nuwe pomp te koop

[Jxjdm]

Standaard Toyota pomp is +- 150l/min@5bar. Die Walbro pomp is 255l/min@5bar. Ek kan hul hier in JHB kry teen ongeveer R1100-00

http://www.nolimitmotorsport.com/walbro/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ek het DIE een gebruik:
http://www.nolimitmotorsport.com/prod/GSS342" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Hannes Meyer]

Lees ek reg is dit per uur of per minuut wat dit lewer. Ek sien daar is 'n inline een ook vir die manne wat nie die een in die tank wil uithaal nie, wanneer mens die toets maak, miskien inline een kry en paar 2.7 toets. Dit klink vir my na iets wat ek sal kyk.

[Jxjdm]

Lees ek reg is dit per uur of per minuut wat dit lewer. Ek sien daar is 'n inline een ook vir die manne wat nie die een in die tank wil uithaal nie, wanneer mens die toets maak, miskien inline een kry en paar 2.7 toets. Dit klink vir my na iets wat ek sal kyk.

Per uur Hannes... Net pasop dat waneer jy die inline pomp gebruik, dat die standaard pomp wat nog in die tenk is, nie n restriction veroorsaak nie....

[Hannes Meyer]

dit kan ook gebeur ja, mens sal maar toets en ky wat maak die druk en vloei saam met ander pomp