Dakar 2014

ThysdJ · Post by **ThysdJ** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:33 pm

Mr_B wrote:Where can I buy a Mini 4x4... lol... I recall all the Toyota okes saying Toyota would dominate this year due to rules changes that would negative affect the Mini's performance... what happened?

BMW is on top of their game Boeta B...

What tyres are Giniel running on? He has LOTS of flat tyres this year..

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:34 pm

zepplin wrote:
ChrisF wrote:Yesterday he lost 11 minutes - exactly how long it took to change two flat tires ...
If he prepared a little better he could have the flats at the same time & would only lose 5.5 minutes..........

grapgat ....

Harold · Post by **Harold** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:35 pm

THIS is part of the reason the Minis do well - they stick together to some extent and do help each other.

Must have learnt from the stategies of the 'Tour de France'.

Post by **CasKru** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:37 pm

I'm just wondering if the organisers calculations were correct when they set the restrictor size for the petrol powered vehicles. I smell a rat.....

4x4BEES · Post by **4x4BEES** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:28 pm

There is always discrepancies when there are restrictors involved.
I remember the same a couple of years ago in world superbikes. Same problems for the 4 cylinder bikes (restricted)
compared to the V twins (non restricted).

kfxnando · Post by **kfxnando** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:01 pm

Seeing that the SA teams of toyota and Ford aren't doing so well

might as well find a mini to support

so I pick
Nasser Al-Attiyah

From some of the stories that I have seen her is a very nice guy, even sponsoring some youngsters who had lost their sponsor
he deserves to win, and seeing that a mini is going to win again. . . . .

Yep. Restriction are always an issue
Remember Van Der Linden with the 300zx twin turbo
they kept restrict and restricting and restricting
eventually all the restriction started cousin reliably issues with the turbos and he pulled out of racing the modifieds

Post by **CasKru** » Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:13 am

On Twitter

Giniel de Villiers ‏@TheRealGiniel
Eventful day for us. Stuck for 5min, then puncture again and then half throttle for last 50km. Nearly ran out of fuel

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:29 am

what is the standings now ?? How much time did Giniel loose to number 2 position ??

zepplin · Post by **zepplin** » Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:44 am

Lying in fourth, over an hour behind third place.

Mylux · Post by **Mylux** » Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:07 pm

So as a matter of intrest, what tyres are they using?

Tonto · Post by **Tonto** » Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:49 pm

So on what restrictors are the Minis running?
I really hope Giniel is running as fast as possible and not waiting for a mistake from the Mini manne! There might not be one, there might have to be 5 in this case.

Toppie4x4 · Post by **Toppie4x4** » Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:23 am

We need to except the fact that the minis are fast and reliable, GDV do have a lot of punctures?????

Post by **CasKru** » Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:34 am

Toppie4x4 wrote:We need to except the fact that the minis are fast and reliable, GDV do have a lot of punctures?????

13 in total. Maybe they should switch to another brand.

Even though the Mini's are reliable, they have the advantage unless the Dakar officials relax the rules on the restrictor or... Imperial Toyota and Hallspeed should consider fitting an turbo to the V8

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:55 am

and the Mini's now officially run to team orders ... even less chance of them now breaking down ....

okay, respect to them. they did run good.

4x4BEES · Post by **4x4BEES** » Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:01 am

A turbo V8 can work, but what about fuel economy?
Maybe a turbo V6 could work beter, then it can go in the production Hilux's

Die$eL · Post by **Die$eL** » Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:39 am

It doesnt seem to be going well.

You guys think there is still chance of a podium finish for GDV?

Post by **CasKru** » Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:05 am

Die$eL wrote:It doesnt seem to be going well.

You guys think there is still chance of a podium finish for GDV?

There is still a long stage ahead today. Doubt that there will be much change in the order. The thing is the Mini's have team orders now so maybe, with them not concentrating and not pushing as hard, they could maybe get stuck or make a mistake with their mind not in it.

Peterhansel said in the show this morning that even though they didn't have any problems in yesterdays stage (and was under team orders) head hated / didn't like it at all. And maybe due to Roma beeing so close but yet so far... one laps in concentration or even over cautiousness....

It's not over until it's over (wow... who would have thunk

) but in all likelyhood... Giniel and Dirk will be in 4th or 5th place... which in it self is not bad at all, all things considered and the amount of bad luck they had

4x4BEES · Post by **4x4BEES** » Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:09 am

As long as there is distance to cover before the end of the race, there is always a chance!

kfxnando · Post by **kfxnando** » Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:19 pm

Looking at the current situation and the fact that the ministry have had no problems with their power steering

Unless there is an unforseen catastrophic events
me think it could very well be a 1, 2, 3 for the minis

Eish

Post by **CasKru** » Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:46 pm

Seeing that all the punctures is what cost Giniel and Dirk most of the time they lost, I get the impression that they tyres are not the best out there....

In other words... what I'm trying to say is... BFGoodrich is crap

dantjie · Post by **dantjie** » Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:01 pm

Sorry om te se maar GDV le op no 5 plek

4x4BEES · Post by **4x4BEES** » Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:08 pm

dis nogsteeds nie sleg nie.

Post by **CasKru** » Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:14 pm

Met die hoeveelheid teespoed wat hulle gehad het dink ek daai is glad nie te versmaai nie

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:38 pm

julle is maar met min tevrede ...... (evil grin)

hou maar nog STYF duim vas daai Mini sien sy gat ...

GI Jane · Post by **GI Jane** » Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:55 pm

CasKru wrote:Seeing that all the punctures is what cost Giniel and Dirk most of the time they lost, I get the impression that they tyres are not the best out there....

DakarTyres.JPG
In other words... what I'm trying to say is... BFGoodrich is crap

Yip, a blowout on mine at 35 000km.... after me meeting with a rep to tell him how unhappy I was with the condition of my tyres after 30 000km. He assured me I would get 80 000km out of the tyres..... Dream on...

BFG are not what they should be.... Sorry for Giniel...

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:10 pm

nou net meer as 30k op my BFG

ons beplan nou aan n Angola trip einde van die jaar - sien nie kans om met die bande so ver te ry nie !!

die nuwe BFG is SWAK !!!!!!

Dingo · Post by **Dingo** » Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:29 pm

A couple of days back it looked like Giniel was running a set of Michelins :shifty: :shifty:

Just check the standings - hier kom bollie, after Mini team orders settling on the positions, Peter Hansel won todays stage and is now 26 sec ahead with tomorrow being the last stage - can imagine to dilemma Mini management are now in. Amazing that after 5000 odd kms the difference is down to seconds now.

Giniel 4th on todays stage and remain 4th overall - Terranova is 6 mins behind. Don't think Giniel is gonna make the podium, unless something happens upfront.

Tomorrow is a short 157km stage to the finish.

the Ford of Alvarez had a good stage, posting 7th on the stage and now moves into 9th overall albeit 16hrs behind.

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:13 pm

Dingo wrote:A couple of days back it looked like Giniel was running a set of Michelins :shifty: :shifty:

Just check the standings - hier kom *a*, after Mini team orders settling on the positions, Peter Hansel won todays stage and is now 26 sec ahead with tomorrow being the last stage - can imagine to dilemma Mini management are now in. Amazing that after 5000 odd kms the difference is down to seconds now.

Giniel 4th on todays stage and remain 4th overall - Terranova is 6 mins behind. Don't think Giniel is gonna make the podium, unless something happens upfront.

Tomorrow is a short 157km stage to the finish.

the Ford of Alvarez had a good stage, posting 7th on the stage and now moves into 9th overall albeit 16hrs behind.

they quietly got on with the job.

respect to Ford.

GI Jane · Post by **GI Jane** » Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:31 am

Good Morning Hilux fanatics.... Ummmm did Giniel win the Dakar or not....???????

http://gaps.dakar.com/2014/dakar/stage-13/aso/ukie.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If so why are'nt we all jumping for joy,

OR am I totally clueless in reading the results.... Yip, you can say it if I am...

Okay read the results...... Well, I think that he did exceptionally well, coming 4th overall and winning stage 13, with the pressure of the mini team behind him. Yip whatever tyres he used did'nt help him with all the punctures....

Post by **CasKru** » Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:33 am

They came 4th over all. They did how ever win the final stage.

GI Jane · Post by **GI Jane** » Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:55 am

Cassie your so kind, you never responded to the clueless comment....

Saw that, but still an awesome result...

kfxnando · Post by **kfxnando** » Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:31 am

Think it's time for me to sell the hilux and get a mini

think if one takes away the time lost with power steering and Tyre issues, he could very well of won it
if
if
if

ThysdJ · Post by **ThysdJ** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:38 pm

Take out the Lexus conversions and fit BMW diesels...

Post by **CasKru** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:19 pm

Okay... found the culprit on Toyota SA facebook page. The wheel and tyres they used:

Here are the details: Evo Corse racing rim is 300 Euro (roughly R4,400). Racing tyre from Michelin 450 Euro (roughly R6,600).

Johan Kriel · Post by **Johan Kriel** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:02 am

Seems the tyres were an isssue, but is the hilux not to heavy, comparing the performance of the minis.

Post by **hendrik.earle** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:14 am

I think in one of their videos they said the Hilux only weighs something like 900kg. Can't remember if its with fuel or empty.

Traveler · Post by **Traveler** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:41 am

Giniel actually commented that he had never changed so many tyres in his career on one race.

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:57 pm

Johan Kriel wrote:Seems the tyres were an isssue, but is the hilux not to heavy, comparing the performance of the minis.

"performance" in the dunes were okay.

the issue was the top speed .... die mini het lang bene ....

BUT, he never lost more than 1 or 2 minutes per day to the minis due to lack of top speed - each loss was equal to the tire stops of the day !! (but that is just my observations from the day times - I have no hard telemetry data to back this up)

kfxnando · Post by **kfxnando** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:03 am

ChrisF wrote:
Johan Kriel wrote:Seems the tyres were an isssue, but is the hilux not to heavy, comparing the performance of the minis.
"performance" in the dunes were okay.

the issue was the top speed .... die mini het lang bene ....

BUT, he never lost more than 1 or 2 minutes per day to the minis due to lack of top speed - each loss was equal to the tire stops of the day !! (but that is just my observations from the day times - I have no hard telemetry data to back this up)

Agree with you
And time lost with the power steering issues

ThysdJ · Post by **ThysdJ** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:14 am

Amazing how they managed to run those Mini diesels at high speeds in the heat without engine failure..

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:28 am

ThysdJ wrote:Amazing how they managed to run those Mini diesels at high speeds in the heat without engine failure..

what actually fails on a diesel at high temp ??

Turbo ? (do we know if they replaced these during the race ?)

Head/top ? (again, do we know if they replaced these during the race?)

DEKSILS ... ek sou GRAAG meer van daai 7 ure per dag se video materiaal wou sien !!

Tegnies is daar soveel meer wat ek wil weet van die game !

En dan natuurlik al daai span gees stories ....

ThysdJ · Post by **ThysdJ** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:50 am

Agreed Chris, but imagine the data they collected on those items in terms of R&D during an event such as this...

4x4BEES · Post by **4x4BEES** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:21 am

ChrisF wrote:
ThysdJ wrote:Amazing how they managed to run those Mini diesels at high speeds in the heat without engine failure..
what actually fails on a diesel at high temp ??

Turbo ? (do we know if they replaced these during the race ?)

Head/top ? (again, do we know if they replaced these during the race?)

DEKSILS ... ek sou GRAAG meer van daai 7 ure per dag se video materiaal wou sien !!

Tegnies is daar soveel meer wat ek wil weet van die game !

En dan natuurlik al daai span gees stories ....

Daarmee stem ek 100% saam

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:49 am

ThysdJ wrote:Agreed Chris, but imagine the data they collected on those items in terms of R&D during an event such as this...

plaas hulle minis gebruik vir eksperimentering en die regte goed vir Giniel gee ...

ThysdJ · Post by **ThysdJ** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:43 am

ChrisF wrote:
ThysdJ wrote:Agreed Chris, but imagine the data they collected on those items in terms of R&D during an event such as this...
plaas hulle minis gebruik vir eksperimentering en die regte goed vir Giniel gee ...

Giniel en die manne het self besluit waarmee hulle wil ry... hulle het baie werk om te doen vir volgende jaar se Dakar..

MAAR BMW gaan ook nie op hulle hande sit van nou tot volgende jaar nie.... so watch this space..

Post by **JohanM** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:13 pm

Some inside info that very few will know....

The mini's had everynight a full service of fluids and filters and the turbo's were replaced approx 3/4 times during the race.

I personally think that this sport is heading the same unfortunate way as F1 and all motorsport. With the biggest budget and widest range off spares anybody can win this race with a team paid top dollar to be a parts fitter all night long.

I personally feel that the intake restrictors should be stricter on the turbo diesels than natural aspirated petrol engines.

Should be interesting to see if the diesels can handle all that power in high temperatures and altitudes and very high EGT's????
The Turbo diesels should be running a 32mm intake restictor and the V8 should have the current turbo diesel restrictor of 36 mm. Should be able to level the playing field easily with this.

Each vehicle should be able to have only one turbo replaced during the race and all vehicles are to have only one service on the rest day. the rest should be able to handle the race. thus the service interval should be 5000 km on these high powered vehicles.

Also there should be a set budget that the value of the team, spares, vehicle's and the racing costs of tyres ect should be capped.

This will put pressure on all those teams that think its easy to be so competitive with such a small budget compared to others.

I personally can't help to think that there was some form of back pay towards those that set out the restrictions as it was clearly evident from the start that the turbo diesels were favoured.

Die$eL · Post by **Die$eL** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:06 am

I agree with JohanM 100%

The turbo diesels clearly had an advantage. Just look at it. No1 could even come close to them.

I found it weird that the minis had virtually no mechanical problems throughout the race. Is that because they replace soo many components at every stop?

Or are we just being sore losers trying to justify not being on the podium?

ThysdJ · Post by **ThysdJ** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:23 am

Couldhave, wouldhave, shouldhave....

The race was run under the rules that all competitors agreed to before the start. If they didnt agree, they would not have taken part. That said, the fact that parts get changed overnight is nothing new, it has been with Dakar since yonks ago. If they start placing restrictions on this and restrictions on that, then it will become the circus F1 is.

What you put in is what you get out... Hilux didnt make it because they chose the wrong setup, and had some bad luck but they were never running at the same pace as the minis. We were sitting here in the last few days, wishing for a mini or minis to make a mistake or break down so that Giniel can get on the podium.. because we knew he couldnt make it any other way.. that is not really the way to win anything now, is it?

The fact is, Hilux needs to do a LOT of work if they want to run rings around the Minis.. and only competing in the SA rally championships is not going to be enough.. they need more than that.. But here's to next year... lets hope the minis make more mistakes then...

PS How much of Giniel's Hilux is actually Hilux??

4x4BEES · Post by **4x4BEES** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:01 am

I agree with oom Thys.
Formula 1 is a circus because "the pinnacle of motor racing" has too many rules and restrictions.
If the idea it is to make it more competitive, then why not make it a one make series.

The same can be said of the Dakar. If the Hilux team wants to beat the Mini's then they should probably
also go the turbo diesel route. And then take enough spares to be able to do a complete engine
rebuild after every stage.

The mini's beat us because they used the regulations to benefit them, not restrict them.

Oupa Stig · Post by **Oupa Stig** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:19 am

Dit was die Referee. BMW het hom gekoop. Als sy skuld.

aaag toe, die enigste ouens wat die Hilux kon klop was manne met 'n MOEWIESE groot budget. Hilux het goed gedoen!

Post by **CasKru** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:36 am

Oupa Stig wrote:Dit was die Referee. BMW het hom gekoop. Als sy skuld.

aaag toe, die enigste ouens wat die Hilux kon klop was manne met 'n MOEWIESE groot budget. Hilux het goed gedoen!

En twin super chargers....

Maar dis reg... mini het gewen. Finish klaar. Wonder net by myself, hoeveel dit hulle gekos het om die Mini oor die wen streep te kry vs hoeveel dit gekos het om die Hilux oor die streep te kry

ThysdJ · Post by **ThysdJ** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:44 am

CasKru wrote:
Oupa Stig wrote:Dit was die Referee. BMW het hom gekoop. Als sy skuld.

aaag toe, die enigste ouens wat die Hilux kon klop was manne met 'n MOEWIESE groot budget. Hilux het goed gedoen!
En twin super chargers....

Maar dis reg... mini het gewen. Finish klaar. Wonder net by myself, hoeveel dit hulle gekos het om die Mini oor die wen streep te kry vs hoeveel dit gekos het om die Hilux oor die streep te kry

Irrelevant... Die Mini's het die podium volgemaak, dis wat almal onthou.. Uiteinde van die saak is wat jy saai sal jy maai.. wat jy insit kry jy uit...

Ek vra weer... hoeveel van Giniel se Hilux is actually Hilux?

Post by **CasKru** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:52 am

ThysdJ wrote:
CasKru wrote:
Oupa Stig wrote:Dit was die Referee. BMW het hom gekoop. Als sy skuld.

aaag toe, die enigste ouens wat die Hilux kon klop was manne met 'n MOEWIESE groot budget. Hilux het goed gedoen!
En twin super chargers....

Maar dis reg... mini het gewen. Finish klaar. Wonder net by myself, hoeveel dit hulle gekos het om die Mini oor die wen streep te kry vs hoeveel dit gekos het om die Hilux oor die streep te kry
Irrelevant... Die Mini's het die podium volgemaak, dis wat almal onthou.. Uiteinde van die saak is wat jy saai sal jy maai.. wat jy insit kry jy uit...

Ek vra weer... hoeveel van Giniel se Hilux is actually Hilux?

Kom ons se dit lyk soos een, doen so goed soos een so dan moet dit een wees

Nay ek betwyfel nie die feit dat Mini hulle ore aan gesit het nie. Ek wonder maar net vir interessantheid die kostes verskil wat dit gekos het om een van die minis oor die streep te kry vs die Hilux.

Maar wat ek wel vir jou kan se.... as Giniel in een van daai minis was dink ek sou hy op die podium gestaan het

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:22 am

Luister manne - EK ry HILUX, EK support HILUX !

daai goed wat die mini badge op het, het wel die podium gevat ... maar ek support HILUX !!

geen beledings vir die mini manne nie

geen verskonings vir waar die Hilux ge-eindig het nie

het ek gesê - EK support HILUX :)

en DIE is mos die HILUX forum ... so al die verraaiers kan maar net in die hoek gaan sit ...

Hoppy · Post by **Hoppy** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:47 am

Die Hilux is nie n Hilux nie, en die Mini ook nie n Mini nie, maar hulle word vir daai fabrikate doelgebou met slegs n gedeelte van die oorspronklikke bakwerk, so, elkeen is vry om in te sit en te doen wat hy wil.

Ek dink die Hilux sal beter doen met n Diesel (en oordentlikke bande).

Die grootste nadeel van Petrol enjins is dat hulle n 35mm "Inlet restrictor" in sy keel sit om sy spoed af te hou vir veiligheid, dis n internasionale reel, dis ook in RSA van toepassing.

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:56 am

Hoppy wrote:Die Hilux is nie n Hilux nie, en die Mini ook nie n Mini nie, maar hulle word vir daai fabrikate doelgebou met slegs n gedeelte van die oorspronklikke bakwerk, so, elkeen is vry om in te sit en te doen wat hy wil.

Ek dink die Hilux sal beter doen met n Diesel (en oordentlikke bande).

Die grootste nadeel van Petrol enjins is dat hulle n 35mm "Inlet restrictor" in sy keel sit om sy spoed af te hou vir veiligheid, dis n internasionale reel, dis ook in RSA van toepassing.

hehehe ....

eintlik is al daai top voertuie tog net n doelgerigte PYPKAR, met n paar plastiek panele om dit na iets te laat lyk.

OF daai "minis" is GROOT, of daai drywers is KLEIN - want ek het nog nooit n grootmens gesien wat se skouers op die dak hoogte van n regte mini is nie !

Post by **hendrik.earle** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:56 am

Ek sal like om n standaard model van elke fabrikaat in die dakar te sien. Koop hom van die vloer af by Toyota, ford, landrover, Isuzu, Tata ens. Enigste veranderings mag net vir veiligheid wees soos daai 6punt safetybelts en natuurlik beter bande. Dan sal dit interessant wees om te sien hoe ver vorder elke maak.

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:58 am

hendrik.earle wrote:Ek sal like om n standaard model van elke fabrikaat in die dakar te sien. Koop hom van die vloer af by Toyota, ford, landrover, Isuzu, Tata ens. Enigste veranderings mag net vir veiligheid wees soos daai 6punt safetybelts en natuurlik beter bande. Dan sal dit interessant wees om te sien hoe ver vorder elke maak.

.T2 klas (dink dis wat hulle dit noem)

HEELWAT van hulle in die Dakar - kry net GEEN tyd op die tv uitsendings nie ....

juis HIER waar die mooi stories is, van "regte mense" wat deelneem (nie vervaardigers wat tjek boek resies jaag nie)

ThysdJ · Post by **ThysdJ** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:09 am

CasKru wrote:Maar wat ek wel vir jou kan se.... as Giniel in een van daai minis was dink ek sou hy op die podium gestaan het

Soos hy met die Touareg/Amarok/Polo/Citi Golf gedoen het... Daaraan is daar geen twyfel nie... As die ouens nou net bietjie verder wil dink as wat hulle neuse lank is... dan sal jy 'n ander ding sien...

Net die deurhandvatsels en die hoofligte was Hilux...

Die res was allerhande ander goed..

So eintlik is Hilux se deurhandvatsels en hoofligte glad nie so sleg nie... Beter as Ford Ranger sinne...

Post by **CasKru** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:26 am

ThysdJ wrote:
CasKru wrote:Maar wat ek wel vir jou kan se.... as Giniel in een van daai minis was dink ek sou hy op die podium gestaan het
Soos hy met die Touareg/Amarok/Polo/Citi Golf gedoen het... Daaraan is daar geen twyfel nie... As die ouens nou net bietjie verder wil dink as wat hulle neuse lank is... dan sal jy 'n ander ding sien...

Net die deurhandvatsels en die hoofligte was Hilux... Die res was allerhande ander goed..

So eintlik is Hilux se deurhandvatsels en hoofligte glad nie so sleg nie... Beter as Ford Ranger sinne...

Ek sal nou byvoorbeeld glad nie omgee om self daai Hilux in my yard te kan trek nie.... hulle kan selfs net vir my daai motor gee