Die groot skok.

[wim]

Ek is die grootste Toyota fan wat ek ken , as jy wil nonsens praat oor n Toyota moet nie dit by my kom doen nie jy gaan jou moses sien as jy vir my vertel jou 4x4 gaan myne ore aan sit dan se ek noem die plek en tyd.Ek het twee Toyota 4x4 trokkies die een n 1995 sfa dc en die ander n 2010 3l d4d dc . Ek is mal oor altwee van hulle . Maar vandag kry ek toe n groot SKOK . My vriend se 2012 3ld4d met 123 000 km op die klok het n gat in sy no 1 piston gebrand . kwotasie van Toyota om hom reg te maak is .............R184 000............ek het nie spelfoud gemaak nie julle lees reg.

[Rebel 4x4]

Overfuelling?

[Taljaag]

B●○□☆♡♥★ Wimpy amper vloek ek.

[wim]

Overfuelling?

Moet overfuelling wees , hy het n chip in en ek het so n paar dae terug agter hom gery en gesien die trokkie rook swart , wou nog met hom daaroor praat en toe gebuir dit. Dis n dem taai toffie om te kou hierdie.

[4x4BEES]

Nee o donmer
Jy kan 'n HELE BAKKIE koop vir daai regmaak prys

[Thabogrobler]

Watse chip het hy in?

Ek is seker hy sal 'n tweedehande enjin vir baie goedkoper kry?

[CasKru]

Dit is wat ek ook dink... 'n enjin moet goekoper wees as dit. Waar het jy nou al gehoor dat mens finansiering sal moet kry om jou bakkie reg te maak... eina pyn

[Bugzy]

Dit is 'n skande....dat hulle 'n mens so kan uitbuit

[bduk]

Ish

Sal baie graag 'n gedaileerde rekening wil sien

[Mr_B]

The D4D engine is available from the engine importers/scrapyards... except to pay R 40K+ for one in decent condition! Remember lots of the import engines come out of delivery vehicles in the East... anyone know a delivery driver that treats the vehicle/engine well?

[pietdevs]

As jy dink dis 'n skok - wag tot jy Toyota se waarborg sien. Dis nie die papier werd waarop dit geskryf staan nie....

Article from Leisure Wheels by Rick Last
Warranty? What Warranty?

Following a rather unsavoury experience with Toyota South Africa, I obtained a law professional’s interpretation of the legal implications of a Toyota vehicle’s warranty. Toyota owners will be astounded to discover how worthless their new vehicle “warranty” actually is. In fact, it provides one with no assured protection at all. If a vehicle’s engine fails, the owner of that vehicle has virtually no recourse.

How could this be? A couple of phrases in particular hand all the power over to Toyota South Africa.

“The obligation under the vehicle warranty is limited to an election by Toyota to repairing or replacing such parts which are in its opinion (NO ONE ELSE’S) defective,” reads the warranty. The lawyer I consulted interprets the sentence in the following way: Under this warranty Toyota alone will decide if a particular vehicle is defective and whether the company will deign to repair it. Should a Toyota owner encounter a defective component that the owner reasonably expected to be covered under the manufacturer warranty, they will find (as I did) that the input and opinions of any external technical experts recognized by the motor industry can, with impunity under the “warranty” contract, be entirely disregarded by Toyota. The “warranty” (read “indemnity”) would simply be unenforceable in a court of law in the face of Toyota’s unilateral discretion and consequent decision as to whether it will repair or replace any defective parts.

The “warranty “ also states that: “Consequential damage/cost arising from a component failure is not covered by the “warranty”.

This means that Toyota will repair or replace only parts that it deems to have been defective. It will not repair any damage that was caused by that defective part.

For example, should one’s engine have a defective head gasket that fails (as occurred in my case on a relatively new vehicle) there is a very high probability that the vehicle will suffer catastrophic engine overheating without any warning signs. My vehicle’s engine overheated, which cracked the engine block, warped the head and scoured the pistons. In short, my vehicle’s entire engine needed to be replaced. The Toyota warranty, however, did not cover the damage caused by the defective head gasket. Toyota was only required to replace/repair the head gasket, and then only if it deemed the gasket to actually be defective.

My vehicle has been subjected to multiple independent expert inspections with corroborating laboratory analyses performed by the SABS laboratory, and conclusive proof of a manufacturing defect was found.

In order to protect itself, Toyota has attempted to make me out to be a liar, without providing any supporting technical data or evidence of its own.
To add insult to the above, a critical component relating to the vehicle’s safety in an accident situation (a steering spindle that triggers the release of air bags) was removed from my vehicle by McCarthy Toyota Pietermaritzburg and inserted into an unsuspecting Toyota client’s vehicle as a warranty replacement. This was all done during the time that my vehicle was in Toyota’s care whilst under investigation for the engine failure. It was done entirely without my knowledge or consent, my vehicle then being returned to me (months later) with a refusal to repair it and no mention made of my family’s compromised safety.

I leave it for the reader to draw his or her own conclusions about Toyota and whether it is safe to do business with them in the context of “warranty” claims, and, in leaving one’s vehicle in their care.

[ChrisF]

Wonder what one would pay for a similar motor at a scrapyard - from an acident write-off vehicle .....


also wonder what 4xLux would charge for a similar repair ? new block, and rebuild from there ...

[Haboob]

This is typical of big bussiness that cannot be challenged by the little man...
The same applies with the service plan, for which you are paying when you buy a new vehicle. Should the five years expire before you have done the 90 000 kms, you cannot request them to supply a new fuel filter that would have been fitted for the 90 000 kms Service at 50, 60, 70, or 80 000 kms, as it is not ue then. Should it be fitted then the customer must pay extra for it. This has already been payed for, with the Service Plan purchased with the vehicle...

[ChrisF]

As jy dink dis 'n skok - wag tot jy Toyota se waarborg sien. Dis nie die papier werd waarop dit geskryf staan nie....

Article from Leisure Wheels by Rick Last
Warranty? What Warranty?

Following a rather unsavoury experience with Toyota South Africa, I obtained a law professional’s interpretation of the legal implications of a Toyota vehicle’s warranty. Toyota owners will be astounded to discover how worthless their new vehicle “warranty” actually is. In fact, it provides one with no assured protection at all. If a vehicle’s engine fails, the owner of that vehicle has virtually no recourse.

How could this be? A couple of phrases in particular hand all the power over to Toyota South Africa.

“The obligation under the vehicle warranty is limited to an election by Toyota to repairing or replacing such parts which are in its opinion (NO ONE ELSE’S) defective,” reads the warranty. The lawyer I consulted interprets the sentence in the following way: Under this warranty Toyota alone will decide if a particular vehicle is defective and whether the company will deign to repair it. Should a Toyota owner encounter a defective component that the owner reasonably expected to be covered under the manufacturer warranty, they will find (as I did) that the input and opinions of any external technical experts recognized by the motor industry can, with impunity under the “warranty” contract, be entirely disregarded by Toyota. The “warranty” (read “indemnity”) would simply be unenforceable in a court of law in the face of Toyota’s unilateral discretion and consequent decision as to whether it will repair or replace any defective parts.

The “warranty “ also states that: “Consequential damage/cost arising from a component failure is not covered by the “warranty”.

This means that Toyota will repair or replace only parts that it deems to have been defective. It will not repair any damage that was caused by that defective part.

For example, should one’s engine have a defective head gasket that fails (as occurred in my case on a relatively new vehicle) there is a very high probability that the vehicle will suffer catastrophic engine overheating without any warning signs. My vehicle’s engine overheated, which cracked the engine block, warped the head and scoured the pistons. In short, my vehicle’s entire engine needed to be replaced. The Toyota warranty, however, did not cover the damage caused by the defective head gasket. Toyota was only required to replace/repair the head gasket, and then only if it deemed the gasket to actually be defective.

My vehicle has been subjected to multiple independent expert inspections with corroborating laboratory analyses performed by the SABS laboratory, and conclusive proof of a manufacturing defect was found.

In order to protect itself, Toyota has attempted to make me out to be a liar, without providing any supporting technical data or evidence of its own.
To add insult to the above, a critical component relating to the vehicle’s safety in an accident situation (a steering spindle that triggers the release of air bags) was removed from my vehicle by McCarthy Toyota Pietermaritzburg and inserted into an unsuspecting Toyota client’s vehicle as a warranty replacement. This was all done during the time that my vehicle was in Toyota’s care whilst under investigation for the engine failure. It was done entirely without my knowledge or consent, my vehicle then being returned to me (months later) with a refusal to repair it and no mention made of my family’s compromised safety.

I leave it for the reader to draw his or her own conclusions about Toyota and whether it is safe to do business with them in the context of “warranty” claims, and, in leaving one’s vehicle in their care.

I do believe this applies equally to other brands ...


this whole thing of covering only the part that fails and not the "consequencial damage" certainly applies to most manufacturers.

[ROOFER]

So now what recourse do you have as the client ???? what about my faith in the brand The Big Fish decide WHAT HAPPENS to the THE LITTLE fish .the unsuspecting buyers thinking all is
well

[pietdevs]

This is where it hits the fan. I am a BIG Toyota fan but very disillusioned with the parts' price and service. I have a friend with a brand new Corolla D4D - it uses 500 ml of oil over a 1000 kms and is getting worse after the first service. Toyota wants to fit new rings to a brand new vehicle. I lose all respect for a car if the vehicle has been overhauled after 15 000 kms and I think it is very poor from Toyota SA. I rest my case.... To top it all - Toyota says the oil consumption is normal...... HA HA HA HA!!! I hope the dealer reads this forum!

[pietdevs]

Maybe it's a good thing that Ford bakkie sales have passed Toyota......

[Mr_B]

This is where it hits the fan. I am a BIG Toyota fan but very disillusioned with the parts' price and service. I have a friend with a brand new Corolla D4D - it uses 500 ml of oil over a 1000 kms and is getting worse after the first service. Toyota wants to fit new rings to a brand new vehicle. I lose all respect for a car if the vehicle has been overhauled after 15 000 kms and I think it is very poor from Toyota SA. I rest my case.... To top it all - Toyota says the oil consumption is normal...... HA HA HA HA!!! I hope the dealer reads this forum!

Got to mention that a good friend of mine was a mech/tech at Porsche here in Cape Town. One client's GT2 used a little too much oil for his liking, and after a long drawn out affair Porsche headoffice in Germany agreed to have the motor opened for inspection under warrantee. What was found? A missing oil scraper ring on one of the pistons... like that straight from the factory in Germany! If the uber @nal quality crazy German's can make that mistake, I'm sure any motor manufacturer can make mistakes!

[MCHILUX]

If it's only the piston thats damaged why not replace only the pistons and rings ?

[johanvb]

What is meant by Overfueling?

[Mr_B]

In simple terms it's when too much fuel is continuously injected into the cylinder for combustion. In the case of a diesel engine this increases the combustion temperature and exhaust gas temperature. If the temperature rises too high for an extended period engine damage may occur such as a crack head or, in this case, a hole burnt through the piston.

[ChrisF]

Straight from the factory the engine managment provides "enough" fuel for the vehicle to do what it promised.


We then get an itch and want a bit more power .... and add a "chip".


Now there are TWO ways to add more power:

1) Give the engine a proper service, new air filter etc. Free flow the exhaust. Then add a chip to optimize the engine parameters while doing a dyno tune.

2) The process starts exactly like step 1. THEN you get greedy and only the first part of the throttle is "moderate" and the last part of the throttle is set to "over fuel" - more fuel = more power ...


The problem is that you only get more power when the engine USE the extra fuel. If the fuel is still "burning" when it is going out the top and turbo to the exhaust you get a LOT of heat in these components !!!


THIS is where an EGT comes into play - Exhaust Gas Temperature monitoring. With this gauge you can SEE how the EGT rise when you over fuel .... and at a critical level you will get an audible alarm. YES, modern engines DO have an EGT built into the engine management - and this gets over riden by the chip ....


My 2,5 had the above done - free flow, intercooler, chip and dyno tune, AND an EGT gauge fitted. Dynotech specifically set it up that at highway cruising speed, 110km/h in the 2,5, the engine mapping is moderate and no ver fueling happens. BUT, when I put foot to pass, or a long hill, it over fuels to provide the extra power. It takes a good few minutes for the EGT to steadily rise before getting high, and still not near the critical temperatures. Finish the pass, let off the throttle and the temp drop immediately. Then again, this is why Hoppy refered me to Dynotech - they are moderate in their setup. There is another crowd in Stikland that are NOT. They love pushing it to max ...en dis wanneer engines seer kry ....

[ChrisF]

Just to stir the pot a bit ....


YES, Toyota certainly has lost the plot with useless staff, pathetic warantees, insane parts prices, yada yada ....


But consider driving a vw with a DSG box .... the mechatronic-control unit for the gearbox sends an error code ... the vehicle does NOT start, and vw picks it up on a flat bed .... then you get the good news .... 40k just for the control unit !!! 80 to 120k if the gear box needs replacement, over and above the control unit price !!!!!!!!!




all the more reason the overhaul that SFA and to stay low tech :)

[Mr_B]

Chris, this where the choice of chip is very important. The entry level cheaper chip only increase the fuelling to gain extra power. The better ones control more parameters such as booster, timing, fuelling and have better interpolation algorithms between tuning load sites. This allows the better chips to safely increase power output while still honouring the factory safety settings. A proper dyno done by a qualified experienced tuner is critical after installing a chip!

[Toppie4x4]

That is why I do not believe in adding chips etc etc

[Haboob]

That is why I do not believe in adding chips etc etc

+ 1

I have also been shown by a Diesel Mechanic that the manifold should be a rust colour, but where chips have been fitted these start burning blue/grey. This is apparently a sure sign of high EGT...

A diesel engine also has a much higher compression than a petrol engine, so chipping or overfuelling increases this compression, thus decreasing the natural engine life of your vehicle...
Just my 2CW...

I think that it was also in the July 4X4 magazine where the differences between petrol & diesel engines were discussed and their point is that a diesel engine does not like to be driven hard, so be gentle with your diesel if you want it to last longer. If you have a heavy foot then you need the 4.0 V6 which is more suited to this aggressive driving style (the 2.7 petrol engine is also bullet proof, but does not have the same power and would probably be a more frugal running engine in the long run)...

[Mr_B]

I've got no problem with chipping, but it must be done right. You don't buy a 2nd hand unit and fit it to your vehicle and just drive. It must be tuned properly on a dyno. Personally I'd start by fitting an EGT gauge, you can monitor the standard setup EGT's to get a benchmark, and then keep monitoring the EGT's after the chip is installed.

I know Toyota like to be conservative in their standard tuning, leaving a large margin for safety. So adding a well tuned quality chip isn't an issue. What I find interesting is that Toyota themselves have 3 different tuning for this same engine, market dependant... from Wikipedia(in RSA it's 120kw/343nm):

"In some markets, outputs are 127kW/410Nm and 140kW/510Nm. Redline of this engine is at 4200 RPM. Compression ratio is 17.9:1."

So adding a well tuned chip just liberates the power that is already available... something Toyota themselves do for various markets! Oh, and just out of interest a well tuned UnichipQ's power stats are:

STANDARD: 120 KW @ 3600 rpm & 343 NM @ 1400-3400 rpm
AFTER UNI Q: 140 KW @ 3400 rpm & 395 NM @ 1400-3400 rpm

So the Unichip isn't pushing nearly what Toyota's own tuning pushes in terms of torque! And Toyota wouldn't compromise the longevity of their engines!

[Thabogrobler]

Wim,

Watter chip was in?

[pietpetoors]

Me thinks the quote means "we do not want to help you, go away"
Surely you cannot charge that to change piston and rings on a Toyota.

[Mr_B]

Good point Pieter. That said I'd love to know what Toyota SA will ask for a brand new D4D engine. Would be interesting to compare this price tag to the total purchase price of the Hilux it is fitted in! It's pretty clear the nickname "Stealers" fits well!

[ChrisF]

Me thinks the quote means "we do not want to help you, go away"
Surely you cannot charge that to change piston and rings on a Toyota.

Pieter it would be interesting to know that ACTUAL damage ....


if it was just a hole in a piston, then surely the quote is obscene. OKAY, it is still obscene even if they fly in a brand new complete engine !!


Wondering if it was a catastrophic failure with the con-rod causing terminal damage ....

[MCHILUX]

OK so I'm one of the useless Toyota staff members but never did we try to steal money from customers . We have repaired many 1KD engines by only replacing the pistons only saw 2 conrods that was damaged with oil on the pistons.

[ChrisF]

OK so I'm one of the useless Toyota staff members but never did we try to steal money from customers . We have repaired many 1KD engines by only replacing the pistons only saw 2 conrods that was damaged with oil on the pistons.

dont feel too bad


ALL trades have "stealers" and "dealers" .....


I am now busy with a survey for a client on various of their sites .... Was less than impressed to see an 18 month old site - NON COMPLIANT ! ..... hier kom sports as daai verslag gestuur word ..... professionally registered experts acting like "stealers" ....



Ek was BAIE bindruk met Toyota Upington !! Selfs n dankie brief aan die dealer principle gestuur.

Maar dan is daar plekke soos Toyota Barloworld Tygervallei ook ....

[MCHILUX]

Ja baie van ons word onder die selde kam geskeer maar wat kan n ou se. Beste raad wat ek vir Wim kan gee is om n tweede opinie te kry. Daai ouens rook iets wat hulle nie getax op word nie.

[wim]

Ek gaan uitvind watse chip in was dan sal ek julle se. Die kwotasie was op n nuwe engine wat hulle R85000 voor soek en dan die grap is hulle se dat hulle moet n 100 000km waarborg gee op die nuwe engine en hulle kan nie die ou komponente soos die injektors, dieselpomp ,turbo ens vertrou nie so hulle moet dit ook vervang.Hulle het op aandrang van ons toe ingestem om die injectors en dieselpomp te laat toets .Hulle se ook hulle sal slegs as die mense wat die goed toets hulle waarborg dat hulle gaan vir die volgende 100 000km reg bly dan sal hulle dit aanvaar.Ek sie nie dat dit gaan gebeur nie. Ek se ook vervang net die gebreekte piston en al die ringe en bearings , haal die chip uit en monitor die engine vir rook en hitte en soo aan.

[Blitzkrieg]

Ek is die grootste Toyota fan wat ek ken , as jy wil nonsens praat oor n Toyota moet nie dit by my kom doen nie jy gaan jou moses sien as jy vir my vertel jou 4x4 gaan myne ore aan sit dan se ek noem die plek en tyd.Ek het twee Toyota 4x4 trokkies die een n 1995 sfa dc en die ander n 2010 3l d4d dc . Ek is mal oor altwee van hulle . Maar vandag kry ek toe n groot SKOK . My vriend se 2012 3ld4d met 123 000 km op die klok het n gat in sy no 1 piston gebrand . kwotasie van Toyota om hom reg te maak is .............R184 000............ek het nie spelfoud gemaak nie julle lees reg.

Wimpie, hulle m@ere man!
Eks net so groot Toyota man.
Stuur daai enjin Congo toe (Kolwezi) att: Jaco VD Westhuizen Congo Equipment.
Ons maak daai enjin gou reg en dyno hom ook sommer.
Kyk, ek werk ook vir 'n dealer (Caterpillar) en verstaan partykeer die pryse. Maar dis net mal.