Labour rates of Dealers compared to Labour rate of a Independant

What do you like/dislike or use/not use
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Dealer Labour Charge per Hour R850 Excl. Vat

Will you pay someone else Equal the above rate for a Service?
2
8%
Will you pay someone else just under the above rate for a Service?
8
33%
Will you pay someone else half the above rate for a Service?
14
58%
 
Total votes: 24
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LouisZ
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Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:29 pm

Lets see how you guys rate this.

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CasKru
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Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:41 pm

The someone you refer to... is it an accredited someone? Can they stamp the book and will the manufacturer guarantee still be valid?
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LouisZ
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Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:53 pm

Cassie lets say non accredited for time being. Have to add too if your vehicle is out of warranty.

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pietdevs
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Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:21 pm

That means your useless warranty is null and void....?

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CasKru
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Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:44 pm

Made my vote with the above in mind.
To God be the glory

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4x4BEES
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Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:45 pm

CasKru wrote:Made my vote with the above in mind.
+1 :thumbup: :thumbup:

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LouisZ
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Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:46 pm

"That means your useless warranty is null and void....? " How do mean Piet? Just asking?

This is for the people that the vehicles are out of the warranty or the service plan. IE SFA Hiluxes year models 1989 to 1998 then too for the IFS Hiluxes from 1998 to 2005.

Thanks Cassie.

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ChrisF
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Wed Sep 02, 2015 5:21 pm

CasKru wrote:The someone you refer to... is it an accredited someone? Can they stamp the book and will the manufacturer guarantee still be valid?
I dont think any dealer/brand will honour a warantee when an "independant" works on a vehicle that is still under guarantee. Surely there may be exceptions if it is not practical to get to an approved dealership ....


That said, my faith in Barloworld Toyota Tygervalley took yet another knock this weekend .... :naah: :frustrated:


First service outside the service plan, so I dig in and do it myself - with a 4 year old toolboy :thumbup: :cooldude:


Biggest problem was getting the large trolley jack under the Etios ... bumper is just too low and the lift points too far back.


Drain the oil - EASY
Replace the fibre washer on the sump plug
Remove the oil filter - actually very easy to reach, thus making the jop even easier. AND mounted low thus no long oil drips ...
Replace the four spark plugs. again very easy to reach.

WOW, what a nice car to work on !!

Replace the air filter.

New filter on
sump plug back in

add new oil


Then out with my check list, EVERYTHING the dealers are SUPPOSED to check. From the lights, to all the fluid levels, condition of the CV boots, brakes, etc etc ....

Even taking the time to train the 4 year old toolboy the job took less than 1 hour.


In 2014 Toyota charged R 1 293-91 for this very service -
DSCN2490 (Small).JPG
Doing ALL the inspections properly it will take the best part of 30 minutes to do this service when you have the equipment and experience, thus just over R 1 000 per hour labour rate

Now a year later the prices look as follows :

NGK spark plugs (same as the old units given back to me after the dealership service) - R 166,17 ... Was R 340,52 at Toyota 16 months ago. :crazy:

Same oil, same price ...

30% markup on the sump plug gasket at Toyota

90% markup on the oil filter at Toyota

Toyota did not bother to replace the air filter so cant compare the price. At R 218,63 I replaced it.

The fact that I had to take the Etios back 2 days after the service for a recall item does not sit well with me. IF they did all the checks they should have seen it, and done it the first time.


Now for the cherry on the Toy badge ... :aggresive:

This is the plugs that was handed back after the 20 000 km service (yes, I also did not think they replaced them so soon on new cars) .... but the it was replaced and charged for.
DSCN2485 (Small).JPG
Classic NGK plugs that was replaced .... see they wear for plugs that are supposed to be only 20 000km old

So imagine my surprise on Saturday when I see THIS when I service the Etios, exactly another 20 000km later -
DSCN2487 (Small).JPG
A DENZO !! :silent: And a wear pattern that do look the part for 40 000 km .......

Now WHAT is the chance Toyota Barloworld Tygervalley actually fitted DENZO plugs during the 20 000 km service ??????? DENZO is what it comes with when imported .....




So back to the question -

Would I pay a DEALER to service my car - HECK NO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Would I pay an independant to work on my car - YES, I have done so and will gladly do it again. Oil change is one thing, but when it gets to the cam-belts etc I book it in.

The rate .... You only need a small glimpse into the books of any artisan to understand what it actually costs to provide a proper service. R 1000 an hour for PROPER SERVICE is absolutely fine by me.

but I am not interested in paying a lesser fee if one "mechanic" overseas 10 appies on 20 cars .....

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ChrisF
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Wed Sep 02, 2015 5:35 pm

LouisZ wrote:"That means your useless warranty is null and void....? " How do mean Piet? Just asking?

This is for the people that the vehicles are out of the warranty or the service plan. IE SFA Hiluxes year models 1989 to 1998 then too for the IFS Hiluxes from 1998 to 2005.

Thanks Cassie.
Louis many modern cars come with only a three year warrantee, but a 5 year service plan.

The Etios and various other entry level cars come with shorter or even no service plan, and also a short warantee period.


There are thus thousands of 5 year old vehicles out there that are prime candidates for independant artisans.



Personally I wait until a few months before the end of the warantee, then I get into my overalls and give my vehicles a proper inspection. This is when I am overwelmed by shear "joy" when I find that Toyota Barloworld Tygervalley did not grease the universals on my Hilux in 50 000 km ....



Yes, I appreciate the need for a stamp in the book while in the warrantee period. But after this period the dealers dont see me again.

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Obelix and Dogmatix
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Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:24 pm

There was no option service vehicle myself (including doing own cambelt after lots of research) so i did not vote
Rules are there to make you think before you break them!!!
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woman so as to give him time
to think of an answer
for her first question
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COMMON SENCE IS NOT A GIFT, IT IS A PUNISHMENT!! BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT HAVE IT!!!
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JohanM
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Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:08 pm

Chris,

I would like to add a curve ball here. However it might be not so on the point here as it is a different brand. In 295K the Volvo has been serviced at only the selling dealer. Crazy as you might think, it actually paid off having that lever of advantage when the turbo suddenly failed after developing a serious oil consumption problem. The dealer and VolvoSA chipped in generously to help ease the cost on the repair. A lot of work was done and the car returned back with a like new engine as all things was replaced. It was costly, and it was a long time to have it fixed.

All I can say is that with the Prado I took it in for the 290K service at Toyota. Yes all the services till now was done at toyota. Had a small issue with the t/cover gaskets sweating oil. Booked it in and asked them to sort it out and also fix an annoying sound coming from it when stationary in drive in traffic and some other small items that wasn't part of the service. The car stayed overnight to fix a stripped thread on one of the t/cover bolts. no one could explain it as no record could be traced that it has been replaced before. I only paid for the service and the gaskets. No labour to replace it and no cost of the thread repair (helicoil). I even payed a reduced rate with discount on the parts as it had a full service history with Toyota. Also they borrowed me a loan vehicle at no cost and even offered to put in R 150-00 fuel as I stay 70km away from my service centre.

So Yes this is maybe not so on point, but I will keep servicing it with the agents. I do believe in keeping good relations with the Dealership and team is vital and I have been servicing there since early 2000 something. Always took in my dad's vehicles also. I have paid to much school fees to having "experts" work on my vehicle and when something goes wrong they cannot be accounted for. When the workshop stuff up and they have done so more than once, they fix it at their cost and have to offer me a new warranty on their work and thus far I will rather pay the premium and make it somebody else responsibility than struggle with it myself or somebody that doesnt know all the in's and outs.

It stay however a personal choice, but i have no reason to not do it this way. My weekends are way to short to be spending it working on my own car when I can be out enjoying it on the road.
Johan Marais

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ChrisF
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Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:15 am

Johan I DO agree with your sentiments.

Have had similar experiences with my BMW motorcycles over the years. Built excellent relationships which turned into long term friendships.


As for Toyota -

I have the utmost respect for Toyota Upington. We had an intermittent problem that developed while we were on holiday. The service we received on that day can only be described as superb. And rightly so I did send a thank you letter to the dealer principle.

But sadly then you get the likes of Toyota Barloworld TYGERVALLEY. Now please understand that I bought from them specifically as my office window looks out onto their premises. Thus the time impact of servicing would be kept to a minimum. In fact I paid a few rands more buying from them than from their Kuilsriver branch. Out of 8 services between the two vehicles I had to take it back 5 times !!

I have spoken to the sales staff (who just cries as they have lost more clients due to this very same issue), I have spoken to the "service advisors" ( I personally believe the real issue lies with their lack of interest, and them not checking the very basics before advising clients the service is done), I have spoken to the service manager (who just covers for his service advisors, and each time blames a new appie), I have even spoken to the dealer principle on a number of occasions. Sadly over a period of 6 years NO improvement in their service levels have been noted.


For the last service I took a day's leave and took the Hilux to Toyota Barloworld KUILSRIVER. SUPERB service !! But this means the better part of a 2 hour return trip in peak traffic to drop off the Hilux and then another marathon in peak traffic to pick it up again .... Time I simply dont have for regular service - frankly I do such a regular service in less time than one of these peak hour trips.


YES, I would prefer to pay and have it done by professionals. But sadly the local dealer dont seem to employ "professionals" ....


To take this one step further. Our boss has a Ford, and he no longer uses the dealership closest to us, but drives another 25km to get to another dealership that actually provides proper service levels.



Thus the choice between dealer vs indy relates to more than just "cost".

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LouisZ
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Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:59 am

Its quite interesting to hear. I actually phoned Toyota yesterday for a check for my 2.7 IFS, just to let them hook it up onto the Ecu, they said labour will be R850 excl. vATTT :shock2:

I thought whaattt?? Then one can take it to someone else. Now if a service say check this and that and it don't get done, why pay this?

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Thu Sep 03, 2015 1:07 pm

Do all my own 10000km sevices and minot repairs.
Recently had a blown manifold gasket repiared by my local independent mechanic.

Costs:
938.00 skim manifold
196.00 manifold gasket
47.90 flange gaskets
5.20 exhaust stud
21.00 exhaust nuts
4.50 M10 flat washers
385.40 welding of exhaust
280.00 labour
18.20 sundries
Total: 1595.20

Awhile back he checked brakes, set tappets, set timing, checked oil levels in diffs, regreased wheel bearings, replaced rear shakcle rubbers - R1382.

Big advantage living in a small dorp and driving a SFA Hilux!
Harold (Greytown, KZN)
http://www.alib.co.za/hilux.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Stef
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Thu Sep 03, 2015 1:38 pm

Good service centers are hard to find, period, let alone finding one that's affordable...

And if the appie is working on the car charge appie rates...don't pretend you have your "expert technician" (or these days they promote themselves to engineers) working on the vehicle when in fact it's a matric laaitie with 5 days on the job training...

Had bad experiences with VW @

Market square Uitenhage
Tavcor Embassy PE
Mcarthy Wonderboom
Hatfield VW

I'd much rather pay someone independent the equivalent rate.

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ChrisF
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Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:36 pm

Stef now imagine you had a 2 year old VW CC ... not exactly a cheap car ... under warrantee, dealer services the lot.


Battery fails ...

no problem, covered under the service plan.

BUT, they come fetch the car on a flat bed - because they cant jump start it .... and they first want to do a diagnostic test to ensure it was nothing more than just a failed battery.

Actually does not sound bad ....


Until it takes three days to get your car back.

at least it was washed ... with an oily rag smearing the windscreen ....


Barons Bellville certainly dont take care of their clients.



The total irony of this is that the BEST service I ever had from a car dealer - when I bought a Fiat Uno, and the ownership and after sales service.

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Stef
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Fri Sep 04, 2015 12:37 pm

Eish...quite fancy the GTi Golf but I'd rather add A few bucks & get a new Lux...not that I can afford it :mocking:

Had a '99 Polo Playa, ran perfectly until the 1st service...then heavy on fuel, later had issues with the stub axle in the left rear (flat spots on the tyre) needless to say I sold it like that.

2007 Polo Classic; perfect, except for the aircon that kept losing gas; by the time it was written off last year, aircon still needed regular recharging.

2010 Polo, wife's car, same story with the aircon to date.

All purchased brand new; never replaced a battery on any of these...

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ChrisF
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Fri Sep 04, 2015 12:54 pm

Stef you are a sucker for punishment :lmao:


I bought my first VW Polo, brand new, from Barons in April 2008 ... October 2008 I traded it in and bought a 4x4 :yahoo: :cooldude:



All other cars I have owned 3 to 5 years .... the VW had absolutely no faults, but I just never got to liking it (you know that feeling when you just start smiling when a car moves your soul) .... and missing my bakkie did not help, then the itch for the 4x4 .... shame that vw never stood a chance .... :siffler: :surrender:



and NO, I wont admit to test driving a milk-truck, even less will I admit to being impressed ... :tease: :twisted:

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Stef
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Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:12 am

Jaja...finances pretty much dictated what i could afford at the time...

Was still better than the Ford & Opel equivalents which were cheap to buy but hideously expensive when it came to basics like shocks, brakes etc...plus driving an SFA to work and back daily is just not viable; polo gave me 720km on 50l with a combined cycle commute.

Having said all that, I haven't replaced the Polo 'cause what does one buy? Certainly not another Polo at R200k + ...can't afford a D4D, not even the 2.5..so I bought an offroad trailer instead :mrgreen:

So I lift club to work and exercise the Ninja on the odd days when I have to commute alone

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