3.0 D4D Black Smoke

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BadboyGP
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Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:04 pm

Hi All,

I just acquired a 2008 D4D 3.0 Hilux DC 4X2. Love the vehicle to bits however I noticed while driving in all gears between 1800rpm and 2200 rpm under load and when boost kicks in she smokes black. Above 2200 rpm smoke subsides or if I let off the throttle nothing is visible.

No smoking on start-up or if I rev it on standstill.

Vehicle has 174000km
Oil change service was just done
Has fsh with Toyota
Air cleaner looks ok
I am not sure of Fuel Filter/Water trap needs replacement.
Fuel Cons seems a bit high around 12.9l/100km(granted I just got the vehicle and have been hooning it last week)

Any help appreciated.
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Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:49 pm

Black smoke is normally an indication of over fuelling. Hence perhaps also the reason for your high consumption figures. Have it checked out, it generates a high EGT and it can cause damage. Maybe the injectors just need to be cleaned.
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Tue Mar 10, 2015 8:57 am

Is the vehicle chipped? Is the exhaust system standard?

If the answer is yes and no, that could be the cause.
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Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:06 am

Vehicle is stock standard as far as I am aware.


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Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:18 am

I'd say replace the fuel filter to be safe and clean the water trap at the same time
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Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:04 am

Thanks will give it a try.


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Wed Mar 11, 2015 8:15 pm

Mud Dog wrote:Black smoke is normally an indication of over fuelling. Hence perhaps also the reason for your high consumption figures. Have it checked out, it generates a high EGT and it can cause damage. Maybe the injectors just need to be cleaned.
Ok changed both the air cleaner and water trap filter. Seems to have gained i bit of power however puff of black smoke still there just as she gets into power band.

Any tips on cleaning the injectors apart from wynns injector cleaner and 2so. Getting around 10km/L currently.


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Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:14 am

I had the same problem which was sorted a month ago. You valve on the EGR (exhaust gas return valve) is dirty or stuck. Also put the bakkie on the computer at Toyota, injectors reading should all be in the range of -3 to 3.
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Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:30 am

Dineshen
I do not know if this is a slip on your part?

I'd say replace the fuel filter to be safe and clean the water trap at the same time


Ok changed both the air cleaner and water trap filter.


I presume U meant that U changed the DIESEL Filter and not the Air Filter....

It will also help to change the Air Filter if it is Dirty...

I also think that 10 kms/l is fair, depending on your driving style...

Keep the feedback on your smoking problem though...
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Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:49 am

Rianc wrote:I had the same problem which was sorted a month ago. You valve on the EGR (exhaust gas return valve) is dirty or stuck. Also put the bakkie on the computer at Toyota, injectors reading should all be in the range of -3 to 3.
I have been suspecting the EGR for a while now, have seen a couple of photos where carbon/soot mixed with oil spray clogs the intake manifold. Just a question, how do you go about inspecting and cleaning, to disassemble the entire EGR/inter-cooler/intake manifold system is a huge project on it's own, especially if you are using your hilux as a daily runner. Ideas?
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Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:56 am

This is what I have gathered, "experts" recommend every 100 000 km to clean your EGR valve/intake manifold.
My d4d is now at around 150 000. So I think it calls for some close inspection. Don't want to hijack the thread so I'll start a new one.
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Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:59 am

I do not know, my 3d4d was at Toyota for two weeks and every part on the engine was diagnosed, injectors replaced but did not make a difference. The one day I phoned the Service Manager and suggested the EGR, which they then took of and found the valve was sticky and only had a play of less than 2mm. They cleaned it and all sorted.
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Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:35 am

Haboob wrote:Dineshen
I do not know if this is a slip on your part?

I'd say replace the fuel filter to be safe and clean the water trap at the same time


Ok changed both the air cleaner and water trap filter.


I presume U meant that U changed the DIESEL Filter and not the Air Filter....

It will also help to change the Air Filter if it is Dirty...

I also think that 10 kms/l is fair, depending on your driving style...

Keep the feedback on your smoking problem though...
Hi there, yes changed both air cleaner and diesel filter(sits at front in water trap).


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Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:37 am

Rianc wrote:I had the same problem which was sorted a month ago. You valve on the EGR (exhaust gas return valve) is dirty or stuck. Also put the bakkie on the computer at Toyota, injectors reading should all be in the range of -3 to 3.
Thanks for all the advise guys, will give the egr/intake a go next.


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Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:32 am

Rianc wrote:I do not know, my 3d4d was at Toyota for two weeks and every part on the engine was diagnosed, injectors replaced but did not make a difference. The one day I phoned the Service Manager and suggested the EGR, which they then took of and found the valve was sticky and only had a play of less than 2mm. They cleaned it and all sorted.
Just on the off chance that you would remember, did toyota only clean the EGR valve or the whole system through to the intake manifold? Or wont it be necessary?

I would like them to clean out mine as well. Could you remember a price involved?
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Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:01 pm

Reinart, I think they only cleaned the EGR, and not the system. Mine was for free under extended warranty as part of the search for the problem. I will get you the cost. Maybe you will only pay for the labour? Say 2 hours. By the way, I struggled to find any information on this for over 3 months and almost sold the vehicle because of this. It only has 73 000km on the clock.
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Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:58 pm

I'm going to block off the vacuum pipe to the actuator of the EGR in order to bypass it altogether

Will post results if any
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Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:18 pm

Nishan, first check an read Reinhart's post in the new thread created before you attempt this.
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Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:28 pm

Die$eL wrote:I'm going to block off the vacuum pipe to the actuator of the EGR in order to bypass it altogether

Will post results if any
Before you do, have a look at my thread, post #2, the guy explains why bypassing the EGR altogether on a d4d is not a great idea. Seems it is also used to dump excess boost from the turbo.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=38537" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by Reinart21 on Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:29 pm

Rianc wrote:Reinart, I think they only cleaned the EGR, and not the system. Mine was for free under extended warranty as part of the search for the problem. I will get you the cost. Maybe you will only pay for the labour? Say 2 hours. By the way, I struggled to find any information on this for over 3 months and almost sold the vehicle because of this. It only has 73 000km on the clock.
Hi Riaan, what was the initial symptoms or problem which lead you to start looking the problem?
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Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:17 pm

Thanks guys. I wont do it then. That mentions blanking off the EGR with a plate.

I'm speaking of closing off the vacuum pipe that actuates the EGR. I suppose it will cause the same issue of the excess boost not being able to escape.

How does one go about cleaning the EGR?
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Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:29 pm

Die$eL wrote:
How does one go about cleaning the EGR?
Exactly my question. But like I said I did not want to hi-jack the thread. Seems that toyota can do it for you. Although the root/carbon build up is not limited to the EGR valve, but from there through the inter-cooler where the exhaust gas is cooled to an oily mist where it goes back into the air intake manifold.

i.e. the worst would probably deposit at the EGR valve but it does get through your inter-cooler to the intake manifold as well.

A friend suggested to start with just taking off your inter-cooler, using thinners poured into it, let it lie for a half hour or so, shake and pour out the liquid, what comes out should be a indicator of how much carbon has reached your intake manifold, rinse with clean thinners and let it dry for 2 hours before re-assembling. If it is relatively clean, then just do the valve.
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Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:47 pm

Apologies for jacking the thread

My Tuna is an 06 model with 124 000kms. I removed my intercooler and it was clean at both ends. No soot build-up at all.
My Hilux was the same.

I pop-in a bottle of 2SO now and then and injection cleaner probably once every 6 months. + use about 10 tanks of 50ppm then 1 of 500ppm
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Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:32 pm

Ok, yesterday evening after watching some "how to clean egr" videos on youtube I did the following.

Removed turbo inlet pipe after air cleaner
Started her up and warmed up to normal temp
Got my beloved broomstick handle and wedged it between accelerator pedal and seat, kept rpm to aprox 1800
Took out the carb cleaner and sprayed into TIP, @1 sec bursts with three second intervals. Used about half a can
Put everything back as they were

I then took her for a nice burn on the highway for about 10km at 3000rpm in 5th.

Surprised surprise, the belching seems to have gone. Now only a small puff of black smoke on hard acceleration.

For some strange reason the wasted boost sounds more pronounced now when I let off the accelerator.






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Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:50 am

Sounds good Dineshen.

I also wanted to clean the EGR but couldnt find any vids on how to other than the method you mentioned. I was skeptical about using carb cleaner into the turbo inlet as I'm weary of it damaging turbo seals etc. I havent heard that it does, its just an assumption on my side.

I ended up relocating all 3 hooters instead. Just to make it that little more difficult for someone to steal the vehicle.
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Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:35 pm

Reinart21 wrote:
Rianc wrote:Reinart, I think they only cleaned the EGR, and not the system. Mine was for free under extended warranty as part of the search for the problem. I will get you the cost. Maybe you will only pay for the labour? Say 2 hours. By the way, I struggled to find any information on this for over 3 months and almost sold the vehicle because of this. It only has 73 000km on the clock.
Hi Riaan, what was the initial symptoms or problem which lead you to start looking the problem?
Ek het bietjie rook gesien as ek by skoonpa se driveway op reverse in die sonlig in, gaan toe na Toyota en laat die injectors check! een was bietjie uit en dring toe daarop aan dat al vier vervang word, wat hulle toe doen. Toe ek die kar huistoe ry die middag begin iets my oog vang in die tru-spiel. Black smoke, presies soos jy beskryf het op rpm etc. So weet nie wat gebeur het nie, of of hoe nie, miskien het die nuwe injectors meer iets nodig gehad en toe blyk dit die egr te wees??
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Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:00 pm

Most diesels will give a puff of smoke just as the turbo starts boosting.
It over-fuels for a split second when Turbo boost is not yet what its suppose to be.
I would only be concerned if it keeps on smoking even at 3000rpm.

The newer models with the CAT in you cant see the puff.

I removed my CAT, and also have a puff of smoke now JUST before boost is 100%.
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Thu Mar 26, 2015 1:34 pm

Ok injector pump stuffed, i guess thats what caused the smoking! Will be replaced under cpa implied warranty.


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Thu Mar 26, 2015 2:02 pm

Please provide me with more information! eg

1. How did you figure this out? What tests was run on the pump?
2. What is this warranty referring to? (cpa?) I have extended warranty so that should also cover it. My problem is however solved, but would like them to replace if suspected.

Thanks
RianC :beg:

PS Very interesting, since the dealer put their own mobile diesel tank on with a compressor of some sort to override my complete fuel system, and no smoke were evident! Running on the true system after the cleaning of the egr some smoke still evident, however not as bad as before.
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Thu Mar 26, 2015 3:42 pm

Rianc wrote:Please provide me with more information! eg

1. How did you figure this out? What tests was run on the pump? Toyota diagnostics
Flow rate very low
2. What is this warranty referring to? (cpa?) I have extended warranty so that should also cover it. My problem is however solved, but would like them to replace if suspected. Consumer protection act - just bought the vehicle

Thanks
RianC :beg:

PS Very interesting, since the dealer put their own mobile diesel tank on with a compressor of some sort to override my complete fuel system, and no smoke were evident! Running on the true system after the cleaning of the egr some smoke still evident, however not as bad as before.

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Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:16 am

So i cleaned my EGR (Thanks Jack Russel for the info on how to find it etc.)

Was a fair amount of work. Lots of sensors to disconnect, mounting brackets to open, had to remove the intercooler etc.

I'm glad to say, I managed to put everything back without any spare bolts left over. Also, started up and no engine light or anything.

Here are some pics

EGR before

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The junk from the exhaust inlet to the EGR
Image

EGR after

Image

Exhaust port of the EGR before
Image

Exhaust port of EGR after
Image

I also flushed the intercooler with parraffin. I only had like 200ml but that 200ml came out very black.

It's a mission to mount the intercooler on again hey! To get all those bolts lined up! :blackeye:

I dont really feel any difference in the vehicle, but my bum dyno is not calibrated well.
fyi, the vehicle has 145 000kms on and is a 2006 model
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Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:45 am

Great stuff!!

My d4d is at Toyota dealer currently. Conflicting reports between two dealers, one says pump and the other says fuel rail. (Low fuel pressure)

Will confirm outcome.


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Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:51 am

Any news Dineshen?
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Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:04 pm

Sorry boet been busy. Will collect the hilux tommorow. Apparently it was some sensor on rail and the diaphragm in tank pump.

I will report once I have collected.


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Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:40 pm

ok....so its now also the #1 Injector which will be replaced
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Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:31 am

Sounds like those guys are not too sure.
replacing parts and seeing if it makes a difference

Anyways, its not at any cost to you right?
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Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:08 am

No cost to me fortunately. It seems like hit and miss, was first diagnosed with injector pump at McCarthy Toyota Midrand at a cost of R15k to replace. The vehicle was then moved to Randburg Toyota for second opinion as they claim those pumps do not often fail. They(randburg Toyota) then picked up low rail pressure and torn diaphragm on the in tank pump.

After replacing the rail pressure sensor and in tank pump the vehicle experienced hard starting, it was found #1 injector was out of spec. That's being replaced today.
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Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:23 am

Sheesh. Just lucky you dont have to pay for it!!

And you getting all new stuff :)
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Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:57 am

Dineshen,

Just double check on that injector #1 that is out of spec, most guys on the forum are of the opinion that the injectors are split into pairs therefore #1 and another one would together be out of spec, very seldom that it is only 1 of them that are out of spec. AFAIK the second injector would only show it is out of spec once the #1 is replaced.

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Fri Apr 10, 2015 2:10 pm

Reinart21 wrote:Dineshen,

Just double check on that injector #1 that is out of spec, most guys on the forum are of the opinion that the injectors are split into pairs therefore #1 and another one would together be out of spec, very seldom that it is only 1 of them that are out of spec. AFAIK the second injector would only show it is out of spec once the #1 is replaced.

m2cw

Thanks for the heads up mate, I will confirm with dealer.
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Fri Apr 10, 2015 2:13 pm

Die$eL wrote:Sheesh. Just lucky you dont have to pay for it!!

And you getting all new stuff :)

There was no way I was going to pay for it! I complained the first week of getting the bakkie, purchasing dealer did nothing until the vehicle dies on me in Haarties!

As per CPA, consumer is entitled to 6months implied warranty.
BadboyGP
High Range 4WD
High Range 4WD
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:18 am
Town: Midrand
Vehicle: Hilux D4D3.0 Raider DC 4x2
Real Name: Dineshen

Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:44 am

Guys, need some advice.

Its seems like dealer is trying to shift blame. He claims they found petrol in the diesel and that was the cause.

On the day of me getting stuck, I did a trip to Bloem and on my way back I filled up just outside bleom 50ppm at Engen one stop. The bakkie made it back fine with the fuel, all 480km of the return trip with about half tank still in the tank. Surely if petrol was in the tank something would have given within the 400km trip. I did complain about the excessive smoking upon taking delivery to which the service manager put in a bottle of injector cleaner and said it will go away.
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Reinart21
LR 4WD Rear Locker
LR 4WD Rear Locker
Posts: 287
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:51 pm
Town: Secunda
Vehicle: Toyota Hilux 3.0 D4D 4X4 D/C 2011 - ONCA Bullbar Dastek Unichip 76MM S/S Freeflow Leveling Kit. Hilux SFA '97 D/C OME Suspension extra long range tank', V8 coming soon!
Real Name: Reinart

Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:36 pm

If they are willing to take off the gloves to shift the blame to you, I am sorry to say, but in my opinion they have no intention of accepting responsibility and are trying to get away from paying up. I know it is easier to say on a forum but honestly, last week toyota secunda stuck it to me, d4d on 151000 km's, timing belt light came on at 150k, booked the service on Tuesday, Friday was the day of service, after the bakkie was serviced, toyota called for collection. Upon collecting and paying for the service they mentioned they did not replace the timing belt kit because they did not have the parts. Talk about crap service, and to top it off they mention we had to walk to the parts department and order the parts, and pay n 50% deposit, because deposit is always payable 50% on any parts ordered. Then the oke tunes me, don't worry we won't charge you for labor on the timing belt kit, but failed to mention he has already charged us all the labor on entire 150k service which already includes the labor for the timing belt kit. Talk about kicking a man when he is down. My father in law is a heavy die hard toyota fan and about a week ago he says to me you must be as stubborn as a friggin donkey with those guys otherwise you won't get anything out of them and they only take your hard earned moneys.

If toyota has any obligation to replace/fix on their account, I would not let it go easily.
BadboyGP
High Range 4WD
High Range 4WD
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:18 am
Town: Midrand
Vehicle: Hilux D4D3.0 Raider DC 4x2
Real Name: Dineshen

Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:25 pm

Ok, my vehicle was just delivered now after I kicked up a storm.

In-tank pump replace
Fuel Rail sensor replaced
Two injectors replaced.

NO cost to me!

Will report on the smoking issue tonight after testing.
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Reinart21
LR 4WD Rear Locker
LR 4WD Rear Locker
Posts: 287
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:51 pm
Town: Secunda
Vehicle: Toyota Hilux 3.0 D4D 4X4 D/C 2011 - ONCA Bullbar Dastek Unichip 76MM S/S Freeflow Leveling Kit. Hilux SFA '97 D/C OME Suspension extra long range tank', V8 coming soon!
Real Name: Reinart

Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:09 pm

Keep us posted!

Glad it was at no cost to you!!
BadboyGP
High Range 4WD
High Range 4WD
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:18 am
Town: Midrand
Vehicle: Hilux D4D3.0 Raider DC 4x2
Real Name: Dineshen

Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:51 am

The black smoke is practically non-existent! Test drove last night and again this morning. That black puff of smoke is gone!

Happy Hilux :cool:
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Mud Dog
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 28692
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:18 am
Town: East London
Vehicle: '90 SFA Hilux DC 4X4, Full OME, 110mm lift. Brospeed branch, 50mm ss freeflow exhaust. 30 x 9.5 Discoverer S/T's on Viper mags. L/R tank. (AWOL) '98 LTD 2.4 SFA, dual battery system. Dobinson suspension, LR tanks, 31" BF mud's.
Real Name: Andy
Club VHF Licence: HC103

Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:42 pm

Good to hear!! :thumbup: :thumbup:
When your road comes to an end ...... you need a HILUX!.

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Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers ... what you do today, might burn your ass tomorrow.
Don't take life too seriously ..... no-one gets out alive.
It's not about waiting for storms to pass. It's about learning to dance in the rain.
And be yourself ..... everyone else is taken!
Die$eL
LR 4WD Full Lockers
LR 4WD Full Lockers
Posts: 892
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2010 9:57 pm
Town: Midrand
Vehicle: 06' Hilux 3.0 D4D 4X4
Real Name: Nishan

Wed Apr 15, 2015 7:37 am

Glad to hear its resolved and at no cost to you!!!
Real drivers use three pedals
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