EFI conversion

AdrianZ · Post by **AdrianZ** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:37 am

Ek wil bietjie die slim manne se raad he.

I'm planning to do the EFI conversion on my 22R, I already got the intake manifold and some quotes to get a dictator installed and all those bits and pieces. I got a spanner thrown into the works by another mechanic that I went to go see about it. He said that it's better to get the harness from a donor car along with the ECU and sensors because there are a lot more sensors and you can tune it a lot better. I now have someone in the US that can send me all of those too

Which is the best way to do this?

zepplin · Post by **zepplin** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:56 am

ALL you need is a local management system. If the guys doing the management fitment are worth their salt, they'll make up a harness. The 22R is not a high tech motor with knock sensors etc. Mine runs sweet with a Dicktator.

zepplin · Post by **zepplin** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:00 am

Have a look here before you spend any more money. The conversion alone will cost you around R9K. This way you'll have a spare motor.
viewtopic.php?f=132&t=20830" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:06 am

The Dicktator package comes with the required wiring harness. The OEM 22RE(22R efi) has alot more sensors than the Dicktator setup, but the OEM setup is not tune-able! The Dicktatior doesn't use the OEM airflow sensor. The Dicktator can be setup to run either TPS based or MAP based. From my experience you get better fuel consumption running MAP(manifold air pressure) based than TPS(throttle position based).

Have to agree with Steve, the 22R runs perfectly well on a Dicktator. Your biggest challenge once your EFi is up and running is choosing the right guys to tune it!

Post by **LouisZ** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:05 pm

On the 22R the Dicktator already have the Harness, it is just to route it right.

The sensors that is needed is an extra water sensor and the air sensor, one usually get from a 1992 or so Toyota 2.2lt Camry.

The OEM sensors is too much and not neccessary, not an issue like Mr.B say.

Gunta · Post by **Gunta** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:44 pm

What is the cost of the OEM computer and harness? It will always be more reliable to tune and better on consumption with the original. I used to carry a spare dictator because I have lost maps before and if something goes wrong in the bush you have a problem unless you have a laptop and know how to tune it. Personally if I had the option I would always go original depending on price. I have tried all the systems and eventually I went back to the original and never looked back. There are many guys using the dictator or gotech but these ecu's are made for the track and not fuel consumption and are the easy way to get a motor to work in a modification. Most people don't use the original because they cant get it not because the others are better. Do your costings and see which is more expensive and make a decision from there.

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:55 pm

My humble opinion... the success of an aftermarket EMU based conversion is the quality of the installation and tuning... botch either of those up and you'll always have trouble! I'm running 33" tyres and still get up to 8km/l on the open road(@ 110km/l) and have never had an issues with my setup, except a cheapie HP pump that killed over.

If you can get the OEM setup in good condition it is well worth considering, but it won't be tuneable and some of the sensors can be quite pricy should they give you hassles, like the airflow meter!

Gunta · Post by **Gunta** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:21 pm

Bretton, I bought a brand new Airflow meter from toyota and I am not sorry that I went original, it works like a charm. I am not knocking the other ecu's, but I have used them and they have there place but if it costs you around the same I would take the original. I have had 5 different tuners and they all achieved pretty much the same with the dictator and gotech but my fuel consumption was never great. I increased my fuel consuption by 50% with the original. I have never seen a 22R with the oem system, but I am sure it will be more economical than the aftermarket. I think he should give it a try and let us all know how it works with the original if he can get one.

Post by **LouisZ** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:38 pm

Ok, pricing on some oem parts:

1. Ecu Oem 2 nd hand = $84-$150 (((part # 8966135630) discontunued))
2. Air flow sensor = $99-$192
3. EGR check valve = $85
4. EGR injection tube = $157
4. TPS = $105
5. Knock Sensor OEM = $130-$187

Work on lowest cost = $660 EXCL FREIGHT. ( R5280).

Still want to use OEM? Dictator = R2900
Splitronics = R2100
Air Sensor Camry =R 350
Temp Sensor = R105

Gunta · Post by **Gunta** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:59 pm

R2900 is just for the ecu, you still have to have it installed and mapped on the dyno. I think you will pay around 1k more for the original but I think its worth it. I would still like to see the original on the 22R. All the 7mge and lexus motors running the original have less problems and far better fuel consumption than the Dictators. All you have to do is ask the okes out there what their consumption is and how their motors are running and that will give you a good idea what to go for.

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:05 pm

Mark, I'm not knocking the OEM route at all. The problem is that if you can find a 22RE OEM ecu and harness it's usually in less than idea condition and honestly buying the OEM parts new does not come cheap, if they are even available! Remember as well the 22RE was never sold in SA(unlike the 7m which was), so you ain't going to find spares 2nd hand via the normal local channels, which leaves you having to import/go the ebay route if something packs up... could be costly and time consuming! What do you do if the 2nd part you imported is a defective? But yes... one day when my SFA grows up I'm going to fit a 1UZ with original ECU, wiring and sensors! One day!

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:07 pm

Gunta wrote:R2900 is just for the ecu, you still have to have it installed and mapped on the dyno. I think you will pay around 1k more for the original but I think its worth it. I would still like to see the original on the 22R. All the 7mge and lexus motors running the original have less problems and far better fuel consumption than the Dictators. All you have to do is ask the okes out there what their consumption is and how their motors are running and that will give you a good idea what to go for.

Like I said before, for a Lexus V8 and 7MGE I'd try and go OEM, but with the 22R it's a dice up simply because the EFi parts, new and 2nd hand are not readibly available in SA!

Gunta · Post by **Gunta** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:20 pm

I cant argue since I have not seen one done here, but it would be interesting to see if he can get a good 2nd hand one from the USA and see how it runs compared to the aftermarkets. But I do get you when you talk about spares. The cressida had a 22R as well but I think it was slightly different if I recall.

Post by **LouisZ** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:24 pm

Ok, find one new Ecu http://www.villagetoyotaparts.com/produ ... 35630.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Price =

R7500

The other picture is a 2nd hand one.

Mark, personally I do not have a problem with OEM parts, just the ease of getting it and especially on a 22RE Ecu, where will you take it to set? Some one would have to buy the machine R85000, then to get the rights to the programming and training of the operator, that just to service maybe 100 22RE Efi conversions. What will the cost be?

On the other hand, yes I had a problem with a Dicktator that was sold as "new" to me, also dropped the maps. But after 3 days it was fixed, no cost and installed.Since then I did not have any issues till the day they stole the Hilux. The dyna, pricing vary between R500-R1200, depends where you are in S.A.

The 7m is a good motor and setup with the OE Ecu and give good results as you say.

But it was STD in South Africa, easy access. Most service stations have the machines and people to help out to set it.

Look at the big picture, every setup differs.Every conversion done depends on the installer and the time and research done on it.

Gunta · Post by **Gunta** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:43 pm

Louis you do have a point but you can put a piggy back chip onto it and anyone will be able to tune it. I think the biggest problem is getting the stuff not the tuning. If he can get it, it might be worthwhile as long as its a good price. Although in my opinion if I were looking to spend 15k on an EFI I might as well put in a 7m for a bit extra and it wont break anything either. The lexus is a great option but requires more money if you want it to handle the power and be reliable.

Gunta · Post by **Gunta** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:47 pm

The only thing to setup is the airflow meter itself and any oke that works on a dyno knows how to set them. None of the guys do any tuning with the computer itself unless you have a piggy back installed.

Post by **LouisZ** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:54 pm

Yip, let them do the research 1st. Parts like you see is available, mostly google'd, overseas. Another especially with 2nd hand parts, do they work? If new, the cost. You saw the price difference new R7500 against R1000 2nd hand.

Conversions like your 7m works, the 4Y Efi, 1UZ done by prof people, and even now the basic 22RE works. Do not make it complicated.

Mainly "WHAT IS YOUR NEED?" Only the person can tell you that want it.

Gunta · Post by **Gunta** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:06 pm

Agreed

I guess it depends on how much moola you want to spend to get the best HP for your buck.

Bulletjie-3 · Post by **Bulletjie-3** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:31 am

Is the power difference between the 7M and 22R EFI worth the price difference ? Both fuel consumption's I think is about the same. My 7M gives 90kW and 167Nm on the wheels.

Gunta · Post by **Gunta** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:04 am

Bulletjie-3 wrote:Is the power difference between the 7M and 22R EFI worth the price difference ?

Deffinitely.

AdrianZ · Post by **AdrianZ** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:14 am

Thanks for the inputs.

I'm not really anywhere closer to making a decision though, I've been having all these arguments that you raised with myself the last couple of months. What I want is basically just to be able to drive up hills on the open road without having to gear down to 3rd and driving up there doing 60km/h and then also better fuel consumption. I thing 6.5km/l doing city driving and on the open road is a bit much.

How much is the 7M? (is that the 3L Cressida motor?)

Gunta · Post by **Gunta** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:30 am

The 7m was used in the supra and the cressida. The supra had larger injectors and longer inlet manifolds and pushed about 15kw more. I have the supra in mine with orriginal management and I get around 7.2km/l normal driving.

AdrianZ · Post by **AdrianZ** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:28 am

Here is what it would cost to get the parts here. It also includes the extra parts that I asked them to include that is not on the 22R motor. All the prices are in US$

22R-E EFI swap parts, misc. parts 250.00
Upper radiator hose 22R-E 26.47
Spark Plug 8.88
Spark plug wire set, 22R-E 77.46
Distributor Cap, 22R-E 18.06
Ignition rotor, 22R-E 4.51
Shipping & Handling - USPS Express Mail International (2
packages) 350.00

AdrianZ · Post by **AdrianZ** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:29 am

The Misc parts includes:

• Intake manifold *
• Intake plenum and throttle body assembly *
• VSV/fuel pressure up *
• VSV/evaporative (optional) *
• VSV/EGR (optional) *
• Fuel filter *
• Fuel filter bracket *
• 2 high pressure fuel hoses
• Fuel rail *
• 4 fuel injectors w/ o-rings *
• Fuel pressure regulator *
• Fuel dampener *
• Knock sensor *
• Air flow meter
• Passenger side water pipe from timing cover *
• Throttle body coolant hoses *
• Distributor *•
• Engine wiring harness *
• ECU (computer)
• Oxygen sensor
• PCV hoses *
• Assorted vacuum hoses (optional) *
• Vacuum hose rail *
• EGR pipe *
• Injector resistor (P/S inner fender)

Post by **LouisZ** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:10 pm

On the 22R, the only parts needed is the upper waterhose. Then the Elec plugs that fit on the injectors, the Injector O-rings, Extra temp sensor, air sensor, high pressure fuel pump, filters, idle control valve. That is is you go the route to fit a aftermarket ECU.

Gunta · Post by **Gunta** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:47 pm

Adrian, that is not bad at all. I am keen to see how it will run with the OE management.

AdrianZ · Post by **AdrianZ** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:57 am

So what is the verdict? Should I give it a go?

I'm just worried that it'll work out to a lot more money than just putting the dictator in and I'll get the same results

Gunta · Post by **Gunta** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:35 am

If you can get all the bits I would give it a go. I am sure your fuel consumption will be better as well.

krazy_kameleon · Post by **krazy_kameleon** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:56 pm

I beleive if you can get all the right bits then an OEM ECU and a DASTEK uniChip is the ultimate in smoothness and reliability.

There are 2 many variables in the aftermarket ECU arena.

If the aftermarket ECU was so good why are the auto manufactures not queing up out side Chris Dicks (Dicktator) or Joe Katick (GoTech) doors and saving themselves a fortune in developement costs???

...having said that and aftermarket ECU and EFi beats a carb anyday

just m2C

AdrianZ · Post by **AdrianZ** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:18 pm

Thank you to everyone for their inputs. I have just ordered the parts from the states, I will go this route and see how it goes.

I'll keep everyone posted on the progress. Exciting!

cprinsloo · Post by **cprinsloo** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:24 pm

The reason why the aftermarket ECU route is so popular is that the ECU is tunable and has a much more simple setup than the EOM. No MAF, no TPS, you can use reliable aftermarket spares, you can get help (lots of knowledge right on this forum), you can get help from the ECU manufacturers etc. If you really want reliability you'll have to carry spares of everything, then aftermarket much better than OEM, less spares and you can buy everything new in SA. If you do it yourself you will know what goes where to get you out of trouble. As stated before most problems iarebecause of bad installation and poor tuning, very few problems caused by the ECU itself (but that happens).

CHeers,

C

Gunta · Post by **Gunta** » Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:09 am

thats great Adrian, let us know when it arrives and your project begins.

AdrianZ · Post by **AdrianZ** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:16 pm

Well I finally got the parts. 2 boxes full of individually wrapped goodies

Now the next step is actually finding someone that can do it for me

any suggestions?

The Legend · Post by **The Legend** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:28 pm

AdrianZ wrote:Well I finally got the parts. 2 boxes full of individually wrapped goodies

Now the next step is actually finding someone that can do it for me any suggestions?

Leave your car with Louis in Pretoria,fly back and pick your car up after three weeks

AdrianZ · Post by **AdrianZ** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:22 pm

Lollie wrote:Leave your car with Louis in Pretoria,fly back and pick your car up after three weeks

wie is Louis en het jy dalk 'n nommer vir my dat ek bietjie met hom kan gesels.

The Legend · Post by **The Legend** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:17 pm

AdrianZ wrote:
Lollie wrote:Leave your car with Louis in Pretoria,fly back and pick your car up after three weeks
wie is Louis en het jy dalk 'n nommer vir my dat ek bietjie met hom kan gesels.

Louis is van 4x4 Megaworld Menlyn.Sy naam op die forum 4x4 megaworld.Jy kan hom gerus skakel op sy sel 084 twee 5 nul 556 nul.Hy het my EFI en n hele paar ander forum manne sin ook gedoen.Hy maak uit van EFI conversions

AdrianZ · Post by **AdrianZ** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:35 pm

Lollie wrote:
AdrianZ wrote:
Lollie wrote:Leave your car with Louis in Pretoria,fly back and pick your car up after three weeks
wie is Louis en het jy dalk 'n nommer vir my dat ek bietjie met hom kan gesels.
Louis is van 4x4 Megaworld Menlyn.Sy naam op die forum 4x4 megaworld.Jy kan hom gerus skakel op sy sel 084 twee 5 nul 556 nul.Hy het my EFI en n hele paar ander forum manne sin ook gedoen.Hy maak uit van EFI conversions

Dankie Dawie, ek sal hom bietjie bel en hoor wat die proses is en belangriker hoeveel dit gaan kos

Post by **LouisZ** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:41 am

Ek het jou message gekry, laat weet my as daar vrae is.

Post by **LouisZ** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:25 pm

Update

I finished Adrianz 22R with the OE Toyota parts. Well to tell the truth it was a long mod.

There was countless problems. Harness was incomplete, diagrams that differs quarterly and yearly, components here and there that gave problems like the Ecu that was fixed, Air flow meter, Throttle position sensor, fuel regulator. Also and o boy, the coil & igniter, this had to imported from the USA as an extra cost on top of the parts already received, we waited almost a month. Also luckly the guy in the Usa helped, but questions and answers was communicted with with waiting periods up to 3 days from each other. This was not send with the 1st time, with this one HAVE to match it up to be correct with the same year that the Efi come out, otherwise the Ecu read the values not correct and it under perform. All compnents must be mached exactly from the vehicle it comes out.

Wiring have to be done precise, no room for error, earths must be cheched to the finest detail. Some earths for the Components have to earth through the Ecu, one fault and the Ecu get wrong info.

Setup with the compnents have to be precise. One thing we also had was the just a slight difference in the timing chain can cause the dizzy to give wrong ignition info to the Ecu. We changed the chain also on top of the Original Efi costs to get it right.

Now the Question, what was gained?

Ok the Dyna before hand gave with 32 inch Wheels:
Hp = 69 Hp
Nm = 132 N.m at approx 3900rpm

After the Efi:
Hp = 74 Hp
Nm = 139.8 N.m at 3000rpm

After Dyna was after 3 Runs, 1st was to see what is going on, 2nd and 3rd was setting just the timing, this was all that could be done. The next will be is to "Chip it" to get more. There is a another posibility that these Readings can change is that the "Ecu" can learn itself to perform a bit better, we hope so.

Time spend on it was 220 Hours of work, I stopped at that and did not book any further.

Here a few Pictures.

Post by **CasKru** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:37 pm

Eina pyn. Klink vir my na 'n erge ervaring. Lyk netjies though.

Post by **LouisZ** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:44 pm

Dit was 'n reuse leer proses. Nooit gedink dat die motors(22R) so ingewikkeld kan raak en elke deel so presies uitgewerk is deur Toyota nie. Die Rekenaar gee ook error codes uit deur die engin lig wat verbasend nogals presies is. Dit laat weet jou waar die probleem kan wees, dis net hoe jy dit toepas. Bv. die TPs het heeltyd probleme gehad, draadwerk was reg, earths was reg, die was oordentlik opgestel stap vir stap soos deur Toyota in Amerika, elke faultfinding is maar weer strip, drade toets in segmente. Laastens is die hele Throttle body geruil met TPS van 'n ander Efi manifold wat ek gehad het(Een van wat ek later gaan gebruik waar ek nie die TPS nodig sal he nie), darem dieselfde jaar. Die het die trick gedoen en geen error codes.

Adrian het die bakkie klaar, hy se ry bietjie beter. Hy sal nog die Ekonomie vastel.

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:51 pm

Louis, not to put a damper on things, but I seriously doubt that the EMU will learn and re-program itself. In this case I'd definitely switch to aftermarket. The job does look really neat!

Post by **LouisZ** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:16 pm

We work on what the guys in America say and according to the Toyota Manual for these 22RE. The whole thing is everytime one take power off the Ecu resets everything(+error codes) and have to learn everything all over. It betters itself if left without interference. One can change the setup to be better without it learning, BUT one need Toyota's machines to change it. Like we know it is in America.

The OE Toyota EFI is very Advance but cost wise seriously consider alot of homework(One years manual differ from the other), that is mechanically and electronicly, Ignition, sensors the ins and outs. Wiring and components, be sure about the relays, you need a special relay to do special combined fuctions, alot of correspodence with a specialist overseas to double check, make sure every part is tested and 100% working order, especially when it is 2nd hand.

I will do it again.... great if you want to learn more.

But for now I will do the Efi's my way, simpler with Aftermarket Ecu's.

The Legend · Post by **The Legend** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:18 pm

Louis

Hoe is dit moontlik dat daar so klein verskil in verbetering in perde krag is (69 -74 HP)?My bakkie het dan 84Hp en 145 NM op die dyno uitgeskop nadat jy hom ge-EFI het.

Ek weet hy het groter bande as my bakkie op maar ek sou verwag het dat hy meer as 74 HP sou uitskop

Jou werk lyk baie netjies hoor !!

cprinsloo · Post by **cprinsloo** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:21 pm

Respect!! Ek dink ek sou lankal 'n vuurhoutjie getrek het....

Agteros · Post by **Agteros** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:29 pm

Hi Louis - netjiese werk!

maar

ek wonder of die kool die sous werd is vir so min ekstra perde

Post by **LouisZ** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:52 pm

Dawie, ja die Dicktator en selfs die Splitronics sal beter wees, dit skakel baie van die sensors uit en ander faktore wat buite gelaat kan word, meeste Aftermarket Ecu sal meer verfynd gestel word om beter krag of petrol verbruik te kan gee, die grootste element is die dizzy wat reg moet wees(Rotor phasing), ek hou van die 22RE OE dizzy. Adrian het die parte gekry en sou gemors word om oor te skakel, die stelsel was nog nie gedoen nie, dit is wel nou 'n moontlikheid. Kom ons hou duime dat die ding leer.

Een ding wat ook gewys het op die dyna was die impak van die pypwerk van die throttle body na die aircleaner, die draaie het ook krag weggevat. Ons sou die battery en filter kon omruil maar daar was klaar 'n snorkel.

Chris ons was moedeloos...

Hugo, ons wag in spanning...

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:39 am

Louis, the problem I have with the old OEM setups, is exactly that, they're old! If any of the critical components give hassles(ECU, TPS, AFS, specials relays, etc.), you going to have to source replacement parts from overseas. With the aftermarket ECU's you can use generic sensors, and often can calibrate the ECU to accept non-standard sensors, like the water temp sensor and air temp sensor. With a new Lexus VVTi V8 I can see the reasoning behind staying with the OEM EMU's with all the advanced controls(like VVT) and systems, but with a older generation setup, like that of the 4Y and 22R, aftermarket just makes so much more sense!

Agteros · Post by **Agteros** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:45 am

OK let me try and understand...are you guys saying the power increase is so small because of the OEM used in stead of after market management systems?

Post by **LouisZ** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:50 am

4x4megaworldpta wrote:Yip, let them do the research 1st. Parts like you see is available, mostly google'd, overseas. Another especially with 2nd hand parts, do they work? If new, the cost. You saw the price difference new R7500 against R1000 2nd hand.

Conversions like your 7m works, the 4Y Efi, 1UZ done by prof people, and even now the basic 22RE works. Do not make it complicated.

Mainly "WHAT IS YOUR NEED?" Only the person can tell you that want it.

I wrote this a while back, this just confirms it. I do not regret the Conversion, I learned alot. My next 22RE in October I am doing the Dicktator setup again.

Hugo we can say Tyres, piping(we changed from 61mm to 76mm to get more) and the OE non user programmable Ecu makes it not ideal for power.

We must get Adrian's input on this aswell, how he feels, what the Bakkie is doing now.

AdrianZ · Post by **AdrianZ** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:01 am

Daar is definitief 'n verbetering in die krag, nou dat ek weer bietjie rond gery het hier onder in Durban, met al die bulte, kom ek dit agter. Waar ek gewoonlik tot in 2de teen 40km/h moes op sukkel kan ek nou gemaklik daar op kom.

Dit wil vir my voorkom of die ding leer en dit beter raak, ek sal maar na 'n maand of twee hom weer vat vir nog 'n dyna tune en sien wat hy dan se. Ek wil (sodra ek weer geld het) maar vir die UniChip opsie gaan, ek dink dan sal ek 'n groot verbetering sien. Nou dat al die verskillende sensors daar is dink ek mens sal hom baie goed kan in stel. Sal maar sien.

Ja dit was nogal 'n storie en vir die geld en tyd so ver is ek effens teleurgesteld met die resultate. Ek sal nou sien hoe die petrol verbruik lyk.

Post by **LouisZ** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:09 am

Ek sal graag wat is die petrol verbruik, hou ons op hoogte.