Convert Standard 4Y to EFI

[Family_Dog]

A while ago I was keen to install an EFI system on my 4Y. I made contact with a member on another forum, who had this to say:
---

Hi Eric

I was so busy that I did not go to the Forum very often, but glad that
you still got my reply.

The EFI setup requires some patience and insight from your side -
usually, the dyno-tuning results in good economy and performance, but
they don't set up the cold starting and a few other small things up as
perfectly as I would like it to be (I learnt to appreciate the smooth
starting and running of a factory fitted efi system in this way).

My experience is from using the Mr Turbo fuel injection system. There
are nicer ones out by now - like the Dicktator system.

You will be looking at the following:
Intake manifold plus injectors - R600 (Japan Auto Trading)
EFI system - R2500
Fuel pump R700 (best to fit inside fuel tank)
Modifications to distributor R800
Fuel pipes, clamps, and other misc R500
Dyno Tuning - R850

You will get much better throttle response and about 15% more torque and
power, without using more fuel.

In 5th gear on a level road, 140 km/h is possible, and on very steep
hills, you would not go down to third gear - only 4th.
---

I don't think he has his Hilux any more, I seem to think he had upgraded to something else. But the above information remains pertinent. Has anybody got anything to add to this?

-F_D

[pietpetoors]

The Hilux 1NSANE sold earlier this year had the fuel injection system on. Why don't you ask him how he did it.
His details are at memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=5

[Family_Dog]

Piet,

At first I thought EFI was the answer, but is it really? Much easier to sort out the Weber if a problem occurs out in the bush. I think a factory EFI is reasonably reliable, but can one say the same of an after-market conversion?

My 3Y engine still has a distributor & points, I am considering replacing that with a Midas Electronic Ignition kit (±R600) and then keeping the old parts for spare for the 4Y for when I go bundu-bashing. AFAIK, should the EI on the 4Y give problems, it should be a simple matter to pull all out and install the distributor/points system to get on the move again. Must say I have only heard of one failure with the 4Y electronic ignition, it does seem pretty reliable.

-F_D

[SYRON CONVERSIONS]

Hello FD

About two years back, Ronny and I jointly bought this engine, a 4Y from a person in JHB, he removed this engine and fitted a 7MGE thus we got the engine complete, it was running nicely in his Hilux before we bought it, we even got a Wild Cat branch as well and a few other items, just thought you might find these pic's of interest.





We have not used this engine yet, it has been put in storgage until we fit it into my Hilux.

[BenHur]

A while ago I was keen to install an EFI system on my 4Y. I made contact with a member on another forum, who had this to say:

Eric

Was that mail from Arthur? If it is him, he still has the Lux he only swopped the 4Y EFI for a 7M-GE and then sold the EFI motor to Simon.

Like the mail states the Mr Turbo is a bit grof. That is why I am also looking at changing mine for a Dicktator when I am replacing my motor.

The cold starting you can fix yourself if you have a Laptop with the programming software (which you can download free of charge from the net) and a lot of patience. The problem is that you can test the cold starting only once or twice a day effectively as the engine needs to stand for at least 6 hours but preferably over night to test.

The other problem is that none of the aftermarket EFI controllers have an input for a knock sensor so it is difficult to get the timing setup in such a way that your engine does not ping when working under extreme load. That is where the way the Dicktator operates is beating the Mr Turbo hands down. Unfortunately I do not know the GoTech system at all.

All in all the conversion does seem a little expensive at first but if you do high kilos it might become a viable option if you consider the current fuel prices.

The other thing to consider is that with an EFI you will never suffer from fuel starvation at extreme angles off road as some carburettor vehicles do.

Regarding the fuel pump I differ in opinion from Arthur, I did not use the expensive VDO submersible pump which you must fit inside the tank, but rather a VW Golf/ Polo inline pump that I fitted just outside the tank to onto side of the chassis rail. That way they are out of harms way but easy to reach, and if you ever want to do over landing you can actually take a spare one with (they are half the price of the submersible ones) and it will take you 5 minutes to replace. The other advantage is that now you can fit an extra easy reachable fuel filter between the tank and the pump. The main reason why these pumps fail is normally dirt in the fuel as they use the fuel to lubricate their moving parts.

My GTi which used a similar pump failed when she was 4 years old. I then saw that the filter was connected behind the pump. I bought another pump and then inserted another filter between the pump and the tank and I sold her more that 14 years later and the pump was still fine. I saw on the Polo I also drove later on that VW fixed their design flaw.

The other advantage of these aftermarket systems is that they are not that complex to understand and fix as the manufacturers’ systems.

The basic components needed to make it work are:

1 The EFI ECU.
2. The map sensor’s pipe which is a small vacuum pipe that gets connected between the ECU and a opening somewhere in the intake manifold after the throttle body to read the Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP)
3. Your distributor needs to be modified to either Optical or Hall pickup sensor. Obviously you can not use your old points and condenser and if your vehicle had already utilised an electronic ignition but it is a magnetic system like many Toyotas use you need to change it to a hall pickup. The vacuum advance and retard also gets locked since timing will now be adjusted electronically from the ECU.
4. An Ignitor chip (TP 100 chip). This is a chip which any distributor type electronic ignition system uses to convert the low voltage input signal from the distributor pickup to a higher voltage signal to drive the distributor.
5. A connection wire from the ECU to an engine (water) temperature sensor. You need to install an extra one as you can not use the existing one which drives the temperature gauge as both connections supply voltage to the sensor and this will clash.
6. Connection wires to supply voltage and switching to the fuel pump, distributor and injectors.


The following additional connections can be made to refine the working of the system. As these are not critical their working (or failure) will not leave you stranded next to the road.

1. A connection to the throttle position switch situated on the shaft that rotates the butterfly in the throttle body.
2. An air temperature sensor which you install in the airflow path typically inside air cleaner. With the Mr Turbo you must use a Golf VR-6’s sensor but with a Dicktator you can use any old thermistor (that you buy at an electronic store for less then R5) since it has a calibration option in the software.
3. A connection to a Lambda sensor on your exhaust manifold to measure the engine’s CO’s. My 7M-GE engine does have such a sensor but the 4Y obviously would not.

Attached is a Block Diagram depicting all the components of the EFI system. They are not that complex. I would rather trace a fault here, then on a mecahnical carb and points/condensor system.

efi.jpg

[Cookie Monster]

Maybe one day when I am big and my Hilux has grown up :D I will fit EFI to my 4y or fit a 7MGE motor My Hilux is only 17 years old 8)

[BenHur]

Maybe one day when I am big and my Hilux has grown up :D I will fit EFI to my 4y or fit a 7MGE motor My Hilux is only 17 years old 8)

Jou Hilux is een van die dae groot. Dus kan jy regtig so 'n mod doen vir sy 18e verjaarsdag

[george]

Maybe the EFI will become cheaper as the GWM bakkies is coming out with them.

[BenHur]

Ja, who knows Autozone might even start selling them for Taxis one of these days. If I were the marketing manager for Autozone I might look at that and then gear up with one of the local EFI management suppliers like Dicktator and sell the complete kit wit a harnass and a decent usable default mapping for the engine for lets say R10-12K.

By doing this Philemon would be able to still install the engine with the prewired ECU into his Taxi himself and the supplied engine mapping already preloaded onto the ECU should be OK to drive the TAXI without having to dyno the engine first. Dyno's can then be done only to make sure the ECU program is fully optimised.

[Family_Dog]

Bennie,

Thank you for your most informative post. Yes, it was Arthur!

Just when I thought I'd write off the idea of an EFI conversion, you post this and now I am all lus again!!

Your sketch makes perfect sense and the guys I spoke to here in Blikkiesdorp are not very clued up about this, but I like the idea of chatting to the GWM (or other vehicles that also use this engine) and get their feed on installing a local kit.

If the price should prove to be viable, then I am all for it. The Hilux with its standard trim 4Y engine is quite a capable vehicle as is, provided there's no head-wind blowing, but even so a moderate increase in power will be just that much more helpful and pleasant to live with.

-F_D

[Family_Dog]

Hello FD

About two years back, Ronny and I jointly bought this engine, a 4Y from a person in JHB, he removed this engine and fitted a 7MGE thus we got the engine complete, it was running nicely in his Hilux before we bought it, we even got a Wild Cat branch as well and a few other items, just thought you might find these pic's of interest.

Simon,

Yes, thanks, I am interested in the pictures! Sadly, two years ago I didn't have a SFA Hilux and had no idea I would be getting one, I never even particularly liked them (Geesh.... Did I say that?? Sorry, Boss )

But that was because my introduction to one was sitting in the back seat of one (I am over 6' tall) and I couldn't even put my feet under the drivers seat, because he had a large radio installed there. When I eventually saw the light, there's just no stopping! It just has to be about the most versatile vehicle around, even more so than my beloved 2.7i.

-F_D

[BenHur]

Just when I thought I'd write off the idea of an EFI conversion, you post this and now I am all lus again!!

Come on Eric you know you want to do it, what are you waiting for?? You know you wanna do it.

You will have the most coolest SFA Lux in Klerkies . You will be the envy of all your friends. The chicks will fall over their feet to catch a ride in such a cool lux It will make you really happy.


Seriously have a look at the Dicktator website. You can do the installation yourself.

http://www.dicktator.co.za/

The wiring diagrams you will use:
http://www.dicktator.co.za/downloads/20PIN_Wiring.htm
http://www.dicktator.co.za/downloads/ST ... LAYOUT.pdf

Your installation will only have one coil and ignitor.

You can also download the PC software that is used to map (tune) your engine.

http://www.dicktator.co.za/downloads/dicktator.zip

To use it offline go to the "File Options" Tab and select the "Work Offline" button at the bottom left.

So waneer sit jou EFI in?

[george]

F_D Wrote

I am considering replacing that with a Midas Electronic Ignition kit (±R600)

Hi Eric.I also bought one of the cheap electronic distrubutors.It started giving intermitent :x problems.I went than with a second hand Toy one.Apparently it happend with a few other guys as well.I think it happend to Swifty as well.
Maybe there is a diffrence between the diffrent parts or maybe I was just unlucky.

[Family_Dog]

Bennie,

Thanks for the links! I will look at them later when I have finished with my emails & forum readings... :D

You will have the most coolest SFA Lux in potch.

Haai, Sies! Ek bly mos in Klerksdorp, nir Poitkiestroom nie!

There is an advert currently running on OFM, our regional radio station (sort of an improvement of Jacaranda... ) where two guys are in conversation, one from Potch, one from Klerksdorp. Absolutely crazy, they talk the poshest Queen's English I have ever heard! Makes me wonder if the ad Agency has ever heard English spoken in this part of the world.

(Note to Self! Of course they have, they could've heard me talkling to meself...)

-F_D

[Family_Dog]

George,

Good info! I was just about to write on the general reliability of Electronic components - they actually seldom do give problems unless they are submerged or suffer voltage surges. But then, that is just pure bad design!

If one considers that 90% of the computers sold today are made in China, one would have expected the Chinese Electronics Industry to be World Leaders in this field. Sad that this is not quite true. Must be poor design with their after-market Electronic Ignitions, which are not really that high-tech to design.

Guess I will wait a while then and leave the distributor in place, in the 3Y. It is not giving me any problems, come to think of it, nor is the electronic system in my Chinese 4Y playing up, although I have heard of this happening before on a brand new engine.

-F_D

[BenHur]

About the reliability of these after market units, keep in mind that products like Dicktator are also being exporting to places like Europe, so I believe that means it can't be too sh1tty.

The other electronic components that can go is the hall pick up in the dizzy and the Ignitor chip. The ignitor is a standard TP-100/900 as is used in vehicles like VW. So if you buy a decent one it should last. I communicated with Chris Dicks from Dicktator via mail a while ago and he said that he prefer people buy a decent one from him with the ECU, rather than buying one at a local spare shop and ending up with cheap Chinese unit.

So I guess the reliability of the system has everything to do with the way it is installed and the quality of components used. If you buy a crappy ignitor or coil it will give problems. Proper wiring and water proofing will ensure a good reliable system.

[SYRON CONVERSIONS]

Can you please post the contact details of this dicktator business.

Thankyou

[BenHur]

1 Master Street
Airfield Benoni
(011) 425 3267
hellrot@iafrica.com
Chris 082 604 5289
Graham 082 415 6015

[SYRON CONVERSIONS]

I contacted Chris, he said that this ecu unit costs R2 100. in vat, he said that postage would be an additional R120. will most probelt get one from him for this engine that we have, but no use for now. :roll:

[BenHur]

I contacted Chris, he said that this ecu unit costs R2 100. in vat, he said that postage would be an additional R120. will most probelt get one from him for this engine that we have, but no use for now. :roll:

Simon

So why not do the EFI conversion on your current motor. Then you can proof to every one that the EFI is more efficient than Carbs with points and condensor.

Just swap the intake manifold and the dizzy, add the ECU and ignitor, if needed change the coil and Bob's your uncle.

[SYRON CONVERSIONS]

Will contact Chris in the morning, get his bank details and buy this item, will then post some info about it here and a few pic's and see what vehicle we will put it into.

[Family_Dog]

Will contact Chris in the morning, get his bank details and buy this item, will then post some info about it here and a few pic's and see what vehicle we will put it into.

... My vehicle comes to mind....

-F_D

[BenHur]

Cool Simon, do you have someone in Queenstown that can Dyno it for you and know how this type of software work, or do you have to seek someone in East London to do it for you?

[SYRON CONVERSIONS]

What we want to rather do is make up an engine stand for this spare engine, with a radiator etc and then fit the ecu wired in and then just take this unit down to east london with the Gaylux to a friend who can sort out the settings.

[BenHur]

Simon

You should be able to start the engine with a default map but the reason you need a Dyno is to optimize the engine map for your engine in "real life" conditions. That is why you actually need the system installed in a vehicle then put it onto a "load cell dyno" and set the engine map up to optimal performance under load.