Headlights very weak.

SideKick · Post by **SideKick** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:26 am

Yes, still me

Another issue I have is that my headlights are very weak. Sometimes driving I check to see if my lights are on because they are near useless.

Now I did have a problem with my main lights going off when I turn my brights on, but I fixed that by taking appart the stuff behing the steering wheel, finding all those contacts, I cleaned it out with a very small screwdriver and some tissue paper. l also sanded off all the contact points with fine 120 grid sand paper. All my lights can go on at the same time now

But these very dim lights have been a problem since before that.

How or what can I test and where?

Thanks!!!

ThysdJ · Post by **ThysdJ** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:37 am

aaaahhhh a Hilux with proper lights!!

OOOOMS · Post by **OOOOMS** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:39 am

Stephan, upgrading your wiring usually solves this problem (use say 4mm wire in stead of 1.0mm)

Are your reflectors still good as in shiny on the inside. This reflects the light forward :wink2:

But 9/10 it has to do with the wiring

Post by **CasKru** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:43 am

Did you open the stalk unit or just clean the connection at the bottom of the steering column. What is you alternator voltage running at?

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:14 am

Stephan, if the reflectors are stoofed or the glass of the headlights is badly pitted, you can buy brand new Hella 4H headlights from Goeiehoop for around R200 each!

SideKick · Post by **SideKick** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:22 am

CasKru wrote:Did you open the stalk unit or just clean the connection at the bottom of the steering column. What is you alternator voltage running at?

I got all the way to that little box with all the copper plates inside. Opened THAT up and cleaned it out inside all the contacts

SideKick · Post by **SideKick** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:30 pm

Hi guys

OOOOMS wrote:Are your reflectors still good as in shiny on the inside. This reflects the light forward :wink2:

Mr_B wrote:Stephan, if the reflectors are stoofed or the glass of the headlights is badly pitted, you can buy brand new Hella 4H headlights from Goeiehoop for around R200 each!

The glass and the reflectors looks good (although it looks a bit dirty in this close up photo and it's very cloudy and raining outside so those reflectors also look less shiny now on the photo . . .)

IMG_0266.JPG: (107.61 KiB) Downloaded 471 times

CasKru wrote:What is you alternator voltage running at?

I've got one of those old school alternators where the regulator is a seperate box. But I did measure on the battery. Is that fine? With the engine off, it measures 12.49V and with the engine running I measure 15.96V

What else can I test?

OOOOMS · Post by **OOOOMS** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:41 pm

I still say wiring.....

However, not related to your lights, but this,

But I did measure on the battery. Is that fine? With the engine off, it measures 12.49V and with the engine running I measure 15.96V

is way to high... :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: Should be around 13.8 - 14.2volt max!

SideKick · Post by **SideKick** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:21 pm

OOOOMS wrote:I still say wiring.....

However, not related to your lights, but this,
But I did measure on the battery. Is that fine? With the engine off, it measures 12.49V and with the engine running I measure 15.96V
is way to high... :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: Should be around 13.8 - 14.2volt max!

How can it be too high??

And how do I measure the electricity going to my lights? And how much should it be?

Post by **Family_Dog** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:28 pm

Those are not the correct lights for a SFA. Replace them with the correct Hella fittings, fit Osram Nightbreakers Plus, the voltage at the globes should be close enough to the battery voltage when the lights are switched on. If not, you need to check all light wiring, particularly the 3-pin sockets and Ground connection.

-F_D

OOOOMS · Post by **OOOOMS** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:53 pm

How can it be too high??

And how do I measure the electricity going to my lights? And how much should it be?

15.96v is way to high for a 12 volt battery........fact, it will damage it :!: :!: :!:

You can measure it with your tester.
Remove the bulb, switch the vehicle on, take your tester and test the voltage at the light socket

KOBUSL · Post by **KOBUSL** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:06 pm

Family_Dog wrote:Those are not the correct lights for a SFA. Replace them with the correct Hella fittings, fit Osram Nightbreakers Plus, the voltage at the globes should be close enough to the battery voltage when the lights are switched on. If not, you need to check all light wiring, particularly the 3-pin sockets and Ground connection.

-F_D

Stephan, doen wat die oom se. Plus, sit herleiers ( relays ) in vir elke paar ligte soos wat hulle doen met die spots. Ek het verder gegaan, vir elke lig sy eie herleier EN sekering met dik drade . Dit maak dat die lig sy krag direk van die battery kry ( of amper direk )en nie eers 'n draai deur die harnas maak nie. Sorg dat die spul ook droog bly. Niemand kan die silikon agter die ligte sien nie, maar as 'n lig dood is sien almal dit. Ons blinde ouens sukkel maar soms om te sien.

519franco · Post by **519franco** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:34 am

dont mess around with the wireing just buy a plug an play hid kit. comes with all the wirering . best solution

Post by **pietpetoors** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:59 am

Agree with OOOOMS and Kobus, run thicker wire direct from batteries and let the normal wiring just switch the relay on and off. The draadjies they put in when manufacturing are way too thin. Problem on most old vehicles.

OOOOMS · Post by **OOOOMS** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:06 am

First sort out the 15.96volt it will cause other problems with you 12v lamps :!:

Post by **george** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:17 am

OOOOMS wrote:First sort out the 15.96volt it will cause other problems with you 12v lamps :!:

Also try a diffrent multimeter. The other day I tested mine and was giving the same reading 15-16 volts

I had another meter and that gave a reading of 14volts.
But if that reading is true you need to sort that out.You going to fry your battery

MOFASA · Post by **MOFASA** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:36 am

If all else fails try putting a candle in the headlight......

Do as 000OMS said and sort out the voltage first and then rewire the lights.....

Post by **CasKru** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:01 pm

Keep in mind that due to the floating earth on the stalk unit it's not that easy just using the existing wiring to power up the relays. The stalk unit needs a certain feedback or resistance from the headlights.

I wanted to do the same thing and ran into this snag. I've stop trying to figure it out but have found something in between that will solve that problem but have not tried it out. It is some circuitry with diodes and resisters and the two relays for low beam and high beam.

SideKick · Post by **SideKick** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:04 pm

Hi guys

So I measured the voltage.

The battery measures 12.5V.

I unplugged the back of the headlight unit and measured it there. 11.3V. Is that within acceptable margins? Or is that why lights are so extremely weak?

Post by **CasKru** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:07 pm

SideKick wrote:Hi guys

So I measured the voltage.

The battery measures 12.5V.

I unplugged the back of the headlight unit and measured it there. 11.3V. Is that within acceptable margins? Or is that why lights are so extremely weak?

That would be the reason yes.

Post by **LouisZ** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:12 pm

Family_Dog wrote:Those are not the correct lights for a SFA. Replace them with the correct Hella fittings, fit Osram Nightbreakers Plus, the voltage at the globes should be close enough to the battery voltage when the lights are switched on. If not, you need to check all light wiring, particularly the 3-pin sockets and Ground connection.

-F_D

Trace the earth, always earth to body, you can take it to Battery negative. The volts can be faulty Multimeter, mine packet up a month ago, were giving also about +2Volts more than it should.

OOOOMS · Post by **OOOOMS** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:17 pm

SideKick wrote:Hi guys

So I measured the voltage.

The battery measures 12.5V.

I unplugged the back of the headlight unit and measured it there. 11.3V. Is that within acceptable margins? Or is that why lights are so extremely weak? Yes

Definitely not :!: You have then a voltage drop of 1.2 volt between your battery and your lights. Huge problem

OOOOMS · Post by **OOOOMS** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:18 pm

You say you measure 12.5 Volt at the battery, is that with the vehicle idling or off ?

SideKick · Post by **SideKick** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:39 pm

OOOOMS wrote:You say you measure 12.5 Volt at the battery, is that with the vehicle idling or off ?

Hi

That is with the engine off. With the engine on, it's about 13.5V.

4x4megaworldpta wrote:Trace the earth, always earth to body, you can take it to Battery negative. The volts can be faulty Multimeter, mine packet up a month ago, were giving also about +2Volts more than it should.

This one is brand new. But I will get a friend to double check my readings with his. Eiter way, with my multimeter I measure a 1.25V drop. If it's out, then it's out on both and doens't change the difference between the two.

OOOOMS · Post by **OOOOMS** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:42 pm

This one is brand new. But I will get a friend to double check my readings with his. Eiter way, with my multimeter I measure a 1.25V drop. If it's out, then it's out on both and doens't change the difference between the two.

True

Post by **Mud Dog** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:47 pm

Now you have to find where to drop is ...... probably in the switching .... stalk switch or relays.

SideKick · Post by **SideKick** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:49 pm

Mud Dog wrote:Now you have to find where to drop is ...... probably in the switching .... stalk switch or relays.

Stalk switch.

Want to put in relays

but need to find out how

OOOOMS · Post by **OOOOMS** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:52 pm

SideKick wrote:
Mud Dog wrote:Now you have to find where to drop is ...... probably in the switching .... stalk switch or relays.
Stalk switch.

Want to put in relays but need to find out how

Relay only, ain't gonna solve your problem

519franco · Post by **519franco** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:41 am

just buy an hid kit and stop cuting wire inpronimg wires adding wire and i bet you now it wont be half the brightness of hids. i just istaled mine and its great

OOOOMS · Post by **OOOOMS** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 6:09 am

HID's are designed for certain reflectors (newer generation vehicles). The light pattern is not correct & not as effective as it should be.
Yes, a bit more light and a whiter light and a lot of unpleasantness for oncoming drivers.

Post by **Mud Dog** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:18 am

OOOOMS wrote:HID's are designed for certain reflectors (newer generation vehicles). The light pattern is not correct & not as effective as it should be.
Yes, a bit more light and a whiter light and a lot of unpleasantness for oncoming drivers.

This has been my take on HID's all along. If these kits were available with a corrective lamp unit (reflector AND lens), then I would say it's a worthwhile exercise, otherwise not IMO. Co-incidentally, I drove at night with a guy that had done a HID conversion just 2 months ago (new Corsa bakkie). The first thing that I noticed was the poor depth, both on dip and bright .... the light colour was nice and bright, but you could see that it wasn't focused .... there wasn't much penetration from the dispersed beam, even my old Osram Cool Blue's were better in this regard.

SideKick · Post by **SideKick** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:20 am

OOOOMS wrote:Relay only, ain't gonna solve your problem

I think not. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

If I take the "old" wires going into the light, I take them out, plug them into the "switching" side of the relay, run new cables from the battery to the "power" side of the relay, to the lights, then it should work 100% if my logic is correct

I just need to get some resistance between the switch and the relay . . .

Am I correct?

SideKick · Post by **SideKick** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:00 am

OK. Now that I'm trying to draw it, I see now I am wrong. I have to replace the wiring. And to be more specific, I don't know how to draw it.

Basically this is a simplified drawing of the wiring now:

: Drawing1.jpg (11.55 KiB) Viewed 4179 times

But when I tried to draw it with the relay in place, I clearly got it wrong!

: Drawing2.jpg (14.71 KiB) Viewed 4179 times

What relay do I get and how do I wire it up?

SideKick · Post by **SideKick** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:13 am

Or WAS I right and you actually wire it like this:

: Drawing3.jpg (21.37 KiB) Viewed 4179 times

I take the "old" wires going into the light, I take them out, plug them into the "switching" side of the relay, run new cables from the battery to the "power" side of the relay, to the lights, then it should work 100% if my logic is correct

I just need to get some resistance between the switch and the relay . . .

Am I correct?

SideKick · Post by **SideKick** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:20 am

Maybe just add an inline fuse . . .

: Drawing4.jpg (21.69 KiB) Viewed 4179 times

Post by **CasKru** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:51 am

Stephan in theory it should work but in practise it doesn't. The problem is that we have floating earths on our stalk switches. If you remove the plug from the one headlight and do your circuitry it will work like a charm but as soon as you unplug the second headlight everything changes and you will not get it to work like that

Post by **pietpetoors** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:32 pm

What is a floating earth?

Post by **CasKru** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:27 pm

a floating ground is a ground, that is a reference node serving as a common return path for current from other components, which is not electrically connected to the Earth.

SideKick · Post by **SideKick** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 6:27 pm

Hi Guys

OK. So I went to AutoZone. The electrician there wasn't really in a helpful mood, but the one thing he did tell me is that you don't need any resistor for the relay. You connect it up as is.

Coincidentally I confirmed this when I stripped down some more wiring and saw that my spots is connected up exactly that way with a 5 pin relay. I haven't disected it completely, but here is how I figure it so far. And how I'm thinking of connecting up my lights. (Black is the old existing wiring and red is new wires)

: Drawing5.jpg (22.71 KiB) Viewed 4164 times

Again please feel free to give feedback as I'm just trying to figure this out as I go along . . .

SideKick · Post by **SideKick** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 6:36 pm

Here are photos of that relay.

It has 5 pins and you connect the two lights up in parallel so they run independently . . .

IMG_0479.JPG: (166.29 KiB) Downloaded 263 times

IMG_0480.JPG: (150.84 KiB) Downloaded 263 times

Post by **Mud Dog** » Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:12 am

Like I said, I would start by cleaning up those connections on that relay .... they look very dirty and possibly even corroded. Run the lights for a few minutes and see if any of those wires, or even the relay itself, gets hot.

SideKick · Post by **SideKick** » Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:13 am

Somewhere we are missing each other . . .

These last pics are of my spotlights that is running off of that relay and is wired like in that diagram. They are working 100%.

It's my normal low and high beam head lights that is useless and that I want to get onto relays . . .

OOOOMS · Post by **OOOOMS** » Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:24 am

Have a read here:

viewtopic.php?f=95&t=20909&hilit=headlight+upgrade" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

MOFASA · Post by **MOFASA** » Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:32 am

SideKick wrote:Somewhere we are missing each other . . .

These last pics are of my spotlights that is running off of that relay and is wired like in that diagram. They are working 100%.

It's my normal low and high beam head lights that is useless and that I want to get onto relays . . .

Why not try replacing the relay with a new one (bosh or better) see if that makes any difference....
If that does not get you the lights you want try replacing as much as the old lighting wires as possible from the relay to the lights, it could be that the weir is onl and its loosing its current through to much corosion........

SideKick · Post by **SideKick** » Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:51 am

MOFASA wrote:
SideKick wrote:Somewhere we are missing each other . . .

These last pics are of my spotlights that is running off of that relay and is wired like in that diagram. They are working 100%.

It's my normal low and high beam head lights that is useless and that I want to get onto relays . . .
Why not try replacing the relay with a new one (bosh or better) see if that makes any difference....
If that does not get you the lights you want try replacing as much as the old lighting wires as possible from the relay to the lights, it could be that the weir is onl and its loosing its current through to much corosion........

There is no relays on my lights. That is why I'm trying to get the lights onto it . . .

SideKick · Post by **SideKick** » Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:11 am

OOOOMS wrote:Have a read here:

viewtopic.php?f=95&t=20909&hilit=headlight+upgrade" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hi

Yes. That is exactly what I'm trying to do, but I'm told my setup won't work and I'm trying to find out why it wont work . . .

CasKru wrote:Stephan in theory it should work but in practise it doesn't. The problem is that we have floating earths on our stalk switches. If you remove the plug from the one headlight and do your circuitry it will work like a charm but as soon as you unplug the second headlight everything changes and you will not get it to work like that

WESKUSKLONG · Post by **WESKUSKLONG** » Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:08 pm

SideKick wrote:
Mud Dog wrote:Now you have to find where to drop is ...... probably in the switching .... stalk switch or relays.
Stalk switch.

Want to put in relays but need to find out how

That is very easy,You will need two relays one for dims and one for brights.
At the bottom of the relay all the terminals have numbers.
(30) mains in +
(87) output to lights
(85) earth-
(86) trigger or switch.

SideKick · Post by **SideKick** » Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:22 pm

CasKru wrote:Keep in mind that due to the floating earth on the stalk unit it's not that easy just using the existing wiring to power up the relays. The stalk unit needs a certain feedback or resistance from the headlights.

Hi

How much resistance is needed?

Is 85 Ohm enough?

: Capture.JPG (28.52 KiB) Viewed 4142 times

SideKick · Post by **SideKick** » Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:57 pm

SideKick wrote:
CasKru wrote:Keep in mind that due to the floating earth on the stalk unit it's not that easy just using the existing wiring to power up the relays. The stalk unit needs a certain feedback or resistance from the headlights.
Hi

How much resistance is needed?

Is 85 Ohm enough?

Capture.JPG

If I remember my grade 7 electrical right, then:

55W / 13.75 V = 4 Amps that each bulb pulls.

13.75 V / 4 Amps = 3.44 Ohms resistance each bulb gives.

you said you only need one bulb for it to work, which means you only need 4 Ohms resistance for it to work, which means a relay giving 85 Ohms should be more than enough!.

Unless it is too much . . . I still don't understand this floating earth . . .