SFA Running hot

Musselcracker · Post by **Musselcracker** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:05 am

I have a 4y that blew a head gasket last year:

So far I have

Removed head
Changed head gasket with toyota orginal
Changed thermostat
Changed radiator
Skimmed head and had a little welding done on it
Changed temp sensor
changed needle on dash board
Had head off again - replaced with toyota orginal gasket again
filled with coolant

And yet after all of that i get the bakkie on to the high way and the temp needle still climbs up to about the 3/4 mark under the red! Slow down around town and it comes back down to normal!

Please Please help.. i have had it at a good mechanic and he thought he had fixed it, cant get hold of him auntil next week so I was hoping we could bounce some ideas around until then?

I am at my wits end with this thing?? What could be making it run hot?

Vlak vark · Post by **Vlak vark** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:19 am

Check the vicos cluch. WHen the engin is hot the fan is supose to be solid.
If not you fan is stuffed.

Musselcracker · Post by **Musselcracker** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:08 am

still have the fixed fan

The Legend · Post by **The Legend** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:46 am

Did you check the earth at the back of the cluster?Is the engine realy getting hot(not faulty meter reading)Did you put in Toyota antifreez?Waterpump OK?

Post by **JohanM** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:12 am

Also check the radiator cap, maybe is faulty can also can problems.

Renew cap with OE toyota part as I have had failures on pirate parts.

Musselcracker · Post by **Musselcracker** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:50 am

changed radiator cap
and also checked earth on the engine

Musselcracker · Post by **Musselcracker** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:53 am

had a mechanic change the temp gauge cluster

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:18 pm

Like Lollie mentioned... waterpump, maybe the impellers are corroded away leading to insufficient flow at higher rpm?

I would install an external temp gauge(seperate sender and circuit), so that you can tell if it's mechnical or electrical. If the ext. gauge stays within operating spec and the internal gauge fluctates then it's an electrical fault(probably earth)

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:30 pm

One more thing... the SFA cluster has a resistor of some sort connected to the temp gauge, this resistor's job is to keep the gauge still from +- 80deg to 90deg C.

Is it possible that this resistor is stuffed?

Mountain Man · Post by **Mountain Man** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:32 pm

I also had the same problem until the radiator was changed to a 3 core radiator - problem solved!! May or May not be your problem.

Mars · Post by **Mars** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:04 pm

Have you had the radiator checked to make sure it is not partially blocked? The other thing is do you perhaps have big spots that sit in the air-flow in front of the radiator.

When you are driving fast the engine is working hard generating more heat but this is compensated for by the increased airflow through the radiator. The core could be partially blocked (inside) restricting flow of coolant and reducing you cooling capacity of your radiator or there could be sand/dust/seeds in the outside of the core (if you follow what I mean) restricting airflow.

Hope this helps

Hoppy · Post by **Hoppy** » Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:42 pm

Fit the 2.4D 1999 to 2004 Radiator with top hose, (Midas no. RH 7148), problem solved.

Musselcracker · Post by **Musselcracker** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:48 am

i don't understand why I need to change and upgrade things if I have changed nothing to the engine and it has been working fine in the past!

I have a brand new raditor, it has had spot lights for its entire life i have done lots of travelling in it before... why now would i need to start upgrading!

Lets explore the water pump option as it is the only part in the heat/ cooling system I have not replaced? Are the empellor fans plastic? surely with the new radiator there should be more water flow anyway?

Musselcracker · Post by **Musselcracker** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:51 am

Thanks for the advice guys.... its just very frustrating!

I will hopefully have a chat to the mechanic today and give you guys some feedback

The Legend · Post by **The Legend** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:26 am

The empellor fans are not plastic,they can corroded away.I presume that you have the cowling fitted to your radiator?

Musselcracker · Post by **Musselcracker** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:45 am

Possible corroded water pump.... surely that is the only thing left and may have caused the head to blow

Post by **JohanM** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:07 am

Musselcracker wrote:Possible corroded water pump.... surely that is the only thing left and may have caused the head to blow

Not always, mine blew cause the headbolts was not torqued properly. Also the headgaskets gets old and starts to weaken first at cylinder no4 where it usually blow's the gasket first. Also its the furtherest from the waterpump thus more heat there than at any other cylinder.

It could also be like you suspect, the waterpump, but I replaced mine at 15 years old and the inside was basically brand new.

Musselcracker · Post by **Musselcracker** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:23 am

eish... i must say the mechanic is keen to get stuck back in!

he can't handle that thing is not fixed!

karoodonkie · Post by **karoodonkie** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:35 pm

Also check that the rubber damper pully. Mine was loose and did the same as an slipping fan belt when the fan engaged. There was no sound like an slipping fan belt but when checked with an timing light the paint mark on the pully would go round and round and not stay fixed on the timing mark.

The Legend · Post by **The Legend** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:19 pm

Guys,Sorry for the stupid question,but what is a rubber damper pulley?

Post by **JohanM** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:28 pm

Lollie wrote:Guys,Sorry for the stupid question,but what is a rubber damper pulley?

Dawie that is a crankshaft pulley that has the rubber cussion inside it to absorb the vibrations of the crankshaft. If it doesn't have it, it can vibrate loose and cause major damage.

Musselcracker · Post by **Musselcracker** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:36 am

that should not cause the van to get hot on the highway surely....as the fan is Obsolete with the car moving forward?

Mars · Post by **Mars** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:24 am

Nope. When cruising on the highway the engine is working hard and generating a lot of heat. The damper slipping will cause a reduced cooling capacity. Worth checking out. It won't go on slipping forever before it jumps off there. Either backwards against the engine causing damage or forwards and into the radiator.

Seeing as you replaced or checked almost everything else I would definitely take off the waterpump and inspect.

4x4Maniac · Post by **4x4Maniac** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:47 am

You mentioned that there was some welding done on the head, is it possible that the head still has a hairline crack somewhere, did you do a compression test? Did you fit the correct thickness gasket?

Musselcracker · Post by **Musselcracker** » Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:19 am

should go back to the mech this week!

if there was a hair line crack in the block... would there be mayo oil water mix in the tappet cover!
the water in the bottle has dropped about an inch.... thought it would just be the air bubbles working them selves out

The Legend · Post by **The Legend** » Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:04 pm

Musselcracker wrote:should go back to the mech this week!

if there was a hair line crack in the block... would there be mayo oil water mix in the tappet cover!
the water in the bottle has dropped about an inch.... thought it would just be the air bubbles working them selves out

It is not suppose to be-check your cooling system properly for any water leakage

4x4Maniac · Post by **4x4Maniac** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:02 am

The mayo color / milky color indicates coolant mixing with oil, this could be from coolant leaking into the oil or vice versa, most likely another blown gasket.

Musselcracker · Post by **Musselcracker** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:44 am

Okay let me make this clear!!!

There is NO NO NO....mayo in the tappet cover!

I was saying that if there was still a hairline crack in the head, WOULD there not be mayo in the tappet cover??

Knersus · Post by **Knersus** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:05 am

Chris for sure it is not nice to struggle with overheating as a Hi lux is not suppose to overheat. One thing is for sure there is a problem. What caused the first gasget to blow seems not to be fixed. My wild guess will be that you will have to replace the top. It seems that there is coolant leaking somehow and it might be a hareline crack. I really hope for your sake that it is a leaking hose or something small. Good luck and keep us posted

Vlak vark · Post by **Vlak vark** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:26 am

That sounds like a small water leak, what prevents the system from building up presure.
This also helps to lower the temp and helps from overheating.

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:44 am

One of the "unseen" coolant leak spots on a 4Y is at the rear of the head where that metal plate - coolant pipe bolt on. Had this issue on my 4Y after a HG redo... also lost coolant, but couldn't find any leaks, till I spotted a few drops of coolant on the bellhousing.

4x4Maniac · Post by **4x4Maniac** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:41 am

Ah ok, so no mayo color... Check the rear as Brent pointed out. There could still be a crack between the valves also which will explain the coolant dropping. If there is a loss in pressure that could be the engine overheating. Why not take it to Silverton rediators and let them check the pressure with that green stuff, if it turns yellow, it is a cracked head. If not, it could just be a pipe... Good luck, hopefully it's not another gasket or worse the head.

Musselcracker · Post by **Musselcracker** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:46 am

Silvertons replaced the radiator after I had put the head back on! I am sure they would have checked all that... Plus the mechanic would have checked that when he took the head off a second time and replaced a head bolt and changed the gasket again!

When I drove it to Langebaan and the temp gauge was up in the hot in 3/4 there and back..... It did not use a drop of water! I took 5 litres with me in case as i suspected it! I am sure that little inch is just the air bubbles and it settling

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:53 am

Musselcracker wrote: I am sure that little inch is just the air bubbles and it settling

Quite possible, air often gets stuck in the heater piping, which takes a while to bleed.

Musselcracker · Post by **Musselcracker** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:21 pm

WOW this is frustrating!!!

cooling systems are the worst when you start messing with them!

Musselcracker · Post by **Musselcracker** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:56 am

Okay word from the mechanic!

he ran in the lot at 3500 rpm and did not run hot.... he took on the freeway and there the temp gauge went up!
He stopped the car and ran around to feel the radiator pipes... they were fine and he was able to touch them!

he noticed the car was pinking (pinging) its head off.... so I have told him to make 100% sure all the mechanical stuff is 100%
As it has been EFi'ed we need to put it on the dyno again and have a look.... also check all the sensors!

He is also changing the temp sender unit to an orginal toyota unit.... just as it now the only unorginal part on the bakkie

thoughts???

Mars · Post by **Mars** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:40 pm

It could also heat up if the ignition timing is out. That was more common with the old points and condenser systems.

Musselcracker · Post by **Musselcracker** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:13 pm

MR B (the EFI guru)

I am running a spitronics system

Toybox · Post by **Toybox** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:13 pm

My 2c regarding the timing.

The only time your bakkie was dyno'd was in Durban. One would assume that sea level is sea level and that the MAP sensor could compensate accordingly but it is possible that the sensor and vacuum maps need recalibration (another dyno). I suspect that when we take it for a drive with the laptop plugged in we'll see that the vacuum map will be either falling off the edge of the graph or sitting in an odd spot on the correction maps.

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:36 am

Chris, correct me if I'm wrong... you are still staying in Durbs, so altitude shouldn't be a factor as you dyno'd there.

First thought, check that the EFi map hasn't dropped. Haven't heard of this happening with the latest Spitronics, but Mr Turbo and GoTech did suffer from this in the past. But still not likely the issue, because the base map is usually conservative, so pinging isn't likely, and the engine would run like a very sick dog.

Secondly, more probable... has the distributor been installed in a slightly more advanced position, so that when the efi map shows say 10deg advanced, the engine is actually running say 15deg BTDC. This would explain the pinging under load. It's possible that the dissi was re-installed incorrectly when the HG was redone. Too advanced timing can definitely lead to overheating problems, and your engine is pinging. Most mech's just put the dissi back in the centre position, not realising that it must be sync'd to the EFi ecu.

When we did my 4Y efi conversion, we locked the distributor as far anti-lockwise as it could go, so that if it were ever removed, it would be easy to re-install in the correct position without messing with the sync between the dissi and efi computer.

Hook up your laptop to the Spitronics EMU, get the timing light out and check that the engine and ecu are sync'd!

Musselcracker · Post by **Musselcracker** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:37 pm

Great thanks guys!!

Toybox and I will fiddle with it and have a look