KZTE Towing problems !!!!

Sun Chaser · Post by **Sun Chaser** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:13 am

Over Dec I bought a boat and towed it to Misverstand Dam just outside of Cape Town,I was shocked to see how poorly my Lux towed the boat up the hills. Firstly I must say that I have a Alu Canopy and rooftop tent on the bakkie, which will affect airflow.
The boat is a 19ft Sunmaster which is +- 800kg, so the load with all other accessories in the boat, still under a ton. The bakkie towed quite well on the level road, but underperformed on the steep hills.(going past Malmesbury) I had to change down to second gear (3000rpm - 3500rpm) and when changing to 3rd, lost power and had to go back to 2nd, which made the temp climb to almost in the red. It was about 3pm and hot outside, I never had the a/c on, and sometimes put the heater on to help cool the engine down.
The trip back to CT, was later in the day and cooler outside with a strong SE headwind and the temp never went above 3/4, but still battled with the hills.
She has 250 000km on the clock, no intercooler or chip.The injectors have not been looked at to my knowledge. The engine normally performs very well, even when fully loaded on our annual trips to Namibia, but i don't usually tow anything.
Is the 3.0 KZTE capabale of towing such a heavy load, or do i need to look at a D4D or V6 Cruiser or 4.0l V6 Hilux for towing.
I was hoping for any advice as to where i should start to look at changes or repairs to my bakkie.
Please help

Ian

louis fourie · Post by **louis fourie** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:34 am

Ian

I tow a ±1.2t Conquerer caravan and never have to go 2nd and very seldom to 3rd (normally passes is where I need to go to 3rd). According to my knowledge your temp gauge should stay stable (mine does) no matter what the outside temp and how hard the engine is working. That gauge is as accurate as using a shifting for a vernier. Mine stays constant from 60°C to 105°C water temp - try not to drive it higher that 105°C.

Oupa Stig · Post by **Oupa Stig** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:46 am

I've done 210k k's in my KZ. It's a workhorse (as opposed to recreational) and thus always carries load, sometimes very heavy. Have NEVER see my temp gauge over half, even with massive load in sand in Moz. Perhaps something's amiss with your cooling.....

Post by **Mud Dog** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:00 am

From your description I must agree that it sounds like a radiator problem. Check that it is not choked with insects and dirt, also, if there are any areas where the tiny little fins are bent over ...... this will restrict airflow. Look to see if those little fins are not corroded /disintegrating ... if they are they will not be able to transfer heat to the airflow. Another possibility is that the visco fan is sluggish / slipping .... could even be a damaged radiator cowl.

Rebel 4x4 · Post by **Rebel 4x4** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:09 am

This is not normal, the KZTE should eat that hills being a diesel and fun filled with torque compared to the 2.7i, and as you mentioned its close to a ton, which is not overloading. As the guys mentioned above, temp gauge should stay constant, especially in low gears. If you were in a higher gear and laboring the engine, the temp gauge will go up.

Sun Chaser · Post by **Sun Chaser** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:44 pm

Thanx to all for the advice. I was leaning towards a cooling problem, and also had a look at the visco fan, but could not see any oil marks or signs of leaks. What is the best way to check the fan if its working properly?
What could be the reason for it being so sluggish on the steep hills. There wasnt enough power to keep it in 3rd, which i found very unusual, even when reving it to 3700rpm in second, I would change to 3rd and It would just drop below 2000rpm and have to go back to second.
I am thinking about fitting an aftercooler and chip, and probably a freeflow exhaust next month. Will it be a great advantage to the vehicle for towing?

JJBotes · Post by **JJBotes** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:53 pm

I just had my KZ at SAC for intercooler,chip & freeflow. They found a problem with some valve that sits at the diesel pump. Replacing this valve already made a huge difference in the KZ's power. Don't know if this is your problem ,but fitting an intercooler & chip is deffinatly a step in the right direction, especially if you are towing something.

4x4Maniac · Post by **4x4Maniac** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:55 pm

Not to throw a spanner in the works, but would really check out the radiator for blockages and thermostat. If it quickly climbs to red it could evidently be a cracked cylinder head or leaking gasket, get a good radiator place to check the radiator and pipes.. Then closely monitor coolant level. If I pull a 2.5 ton trailer I can hardly feel it, so something is wrong.

Once we went hunting and came back pulling a trailer with game of about 400kg. When I towed it on a flat road surface, no problem, but as soon as I go uphill, big problem. It turned out to be a cracked cylinder head. Got the AMC head +-R13000 later for everything from radiator to injectors and still going like a boing, 30k's later.

Thabogrobler · Post by **Thabogrobler** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:14 pm

Firstly, there is a big gap between 2nd and 3rd gear - with heavy loads you can have a problem.

BUT I suspect you have a cooling/cracked head problem.

Head down to Hoppy(AEW Auto) and have him check out you truck.

Once it gets a clean bill of health, install an interecooler and chip ASAP!

Please keep us updated!

Niel · Post by **Niel** » Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:17 am

Gents. that hill is a female dog and is more than a km long (uphill and steep). With a full loaded Echo 4 I go up there in 3rd gear (towards the top). But none of the problems you experience. I agree with the sufggestions from the others and look if it breathes properly as well - clean filter or someone did not leave something in the air filter (like a cloth - that someone left in for me to remove). Hope it is just coolent/radiator.

Post by **Polarbear2008** » Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:58 pm

Sun Chaser I suggest you get your KZ to Alan (Hoppy) forum member and Hilux guru! If anyone can get to the bottom of this HE can!

It is defenitely not normal for the truck to heat up like that under load! I have never ever had my temp needle move at all no matter what the condition or load!

Buffalo Soldier · Post by **Buffalo Soldier** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:07 am

Ian, I tow a Commander Caravan. When towing uphill, she struggles. Most of the times I have to go to 2nd gear, BUT, I keep the revs at 2500, nothing more. Temp stays constant. But, this is painful. I have cracked the head. And only 252000 km on the clock. Seems like she could not handle all the stress. I have replaced the radiator cap and the thermostat. Cap started leaking and the thermostat opened only half the travel. But, I guess the damage was done, although the temp never exceeded 3/4 of the range. Guess what, I am looking for a new head now.......

I only use the Lux for towing, not too much solo driving. But, I have never seen a temp rise when solo driving. Will start tonight with the disassemble of the motor, and might as well clean the injectors and radiator while at it.

dalkill · Post by **dalkill** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:35 am

Eish, breaks my heart to hear the stories of the KZTE and their head problems.

Looks like the only one imune to this disease is / was the KB280DT. I have not heard of one of those going.
Although I have read many horror stories of the 300TDi... limp mode, engine cutting out.

Sun Chaser · Post by **Sun Chaser** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:35 am

I have sent Allan a PM to get a quote for a few things to be done on the bakkie. I do hope that it's not a cracked head,

as that would be very sad

.
Thanx for all the replies, I will hopefully get the work done near month end and will let you guys know what the diagnosis is.
Keeping fingers crossed its nothing serious.

Buffalo Soldier · Post by **Buffalo Soldier** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:08 am

Quick update, will post pics later. Took the head off last night. Head cracked all over, between the valves on 3 of the 4 cylinders, 3 of the combustion chambers cracked and also the head around where the combustion chambers are situated. And, the temp never even went very high, nowhere near the red markings. But, the Lux served me well, I will repair her and go for another 250K odd km traveling, mostly towing the van offroad.

Cheers. (will post pics on Monday).

Donkey · Post by **Donkey** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:16 am

Ockert, whilst you're at it, have a look into the AMC heads, good luck!

4x4Maniac · Post by **4x4Maniac** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:17 am

Ockert, was presies dieselfde met myne, twee krake tussen valves. Ek glo as jy die AMC head opsit sal jy baie meer kilo's kry as dit... Onthou dat n engineering shop vir jou te kyk na die valvestems en die shims reg te kry, maak ook die block mooi skoon met n Stanley en kyk na die regte dikte gasket. As jy nog n geldjie het laat die radiator nagaan en maak skoon, nuwe radiator cap. Ek het ook my head boude vervang en injectors gestel.

Daar is n ou in PTA Wes, wat vir my alles oorgebou het vir n R1000. Draai net die water temp sensor en studs uit.

4x4Maniac · Post by **4x4Maniac** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:21 am

Fernando's Motor Engineering
(012) 3271374

Sterkte, laat weet of jy nog vrae het, ek help graag.

O JA ek het toe sommer die Timing belt ook vervang, my tensioner was nog reg.

Buffalo Soldier · Post by **Buffalo Soldier** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:10 am

Werner, ek neem aan die AMC heads is verbeter sodat dieselfde probleme nie weer voorkom nie? Het reeds pryse gekry, baie goed, wat 'n AMC head insluit. Ek neem aan die "combustion chambers" word in gepress? Ek het die verkoelings water opgevang vir besigtiging. Dit is nog suiwer skoon, geen sediment of aanpaksels nie. Slegs die rooi kleur van Toyota se verkoelings water. Ek het die voertuig gekoop met 145K op die klok, en sedertdien was hy nooit by die agente nie (my mour gestrip vir die chief mechanic). Sal die naweek begin skoonmaak en alles opmeet wat gemeet moet word. Het darem al daai fancy tooling.

Groetnis.

4x4Maniac · Post by **4x4Maniac** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:44 pm

Die combustion chamber kan vervang word met n Aluminium welding, maar ek sal nie dit aan raai nie. Die nuwe head is kompleet, maw het n nuwe combustion chamber ingebou. Al wat die ingeneur oor in sit is die valve stems, en valvestem seals saam met die shims wat die korrekte hoogte is tussen die shim en camshaft, maak net seker jy gee vir hom die ou head, sonder manifold studs. Hy sal dan alles oorbou in spec oor na die nuwe head toe, check maar net die valve clearances voordat jy alles aan mekaar sit, en onthou om eers die engine met n spanner te draai terwyl tappet cover nog af is. As ek mooi onthou is die slag piston 1,3,2,4

Buffalo Soldier · Post by **Buffalo Soldier** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:58 am

Okay, het die nuwe silinderkop (AMC), pakstuk en die klepseels gekry Saterdagoggend. Alles vir R5K. Wag net vir die nuwe silinderkop boute, nuwe olieseel en die "idler pulley". Die inspuiters word ook nagegaan en getoets. Die pomp sal gekalibreer/toets word sodra alles klaar is. Ek moet net 'n EGT stelsel bou en installeer, dan is ons weer reg vir die kamp ding.

Al die ander komponente is opgemeet en reg om terug te gaan. Sal nog so 'n week of twee neem, dan is ons reg.....

Werner: "Al wat die ingeneur oor in sit is die valve stems", het nagegaan, dit is reeds in plek. Moet net die studs insit en die valve seels, dan kan ek aan mekaar sit.

Donkey · Post by **Donkey** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:09 am

Good luck

4x4Maniac · Post by **4x4Maniac** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:17 am

Klink reg, sterkte, volg maar net al die stappies in die boek dan kan jy nie verkeerd gaan nie.

Sun Chaser · Post by **Sun Chaser** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:48 pm

Ockert, klink my jy het jou hande vol met jou enjin. Sterkte met al die werk wat voorle.Die bakkie vanmiddag na Allen toe geneem, so ons sal maar hoor wat se hy as hy kans gekry het om na alles te kyk.
Ek het bietjie gekyk na die papiere van werk wat ek laat doen het, ek het skoon vergeet die head was deur Allan vervang in November 2009 so 35 000km terug. So ek glo nie dis die vout nie

Ek glo dis seker erens in die radiator of so iets wat pla.
Ek weet die injectors and pomp het seker by die tyd al werk nodig.
Ek sal julle laat wet wat se hy, wat alles nodig is, hoop net nie dis n moerse klomp geld nie.

Buffalo Soldier · Post by **Buffalo Soldier** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:49 am

Nee wat Ian, dit klink na baie werk, maar is nie regtig nie. Ek het so bietjie tyd om dinge reg te maak, dan kan ek weer so 250K ry. Besig nou om die silinderkop aan mekaar te sit, sal die naweek die EGT insit (moet hom nog bou :-) ), dan volgende week begin om die enjin weer volledig te kry. Moet naweek 9 Feb klaar wees en toets sodat ek weer kan gaan kamp.

Groetnis en sterkte vir jou ook.

Sun Chaser · Post by **Sun Chaser** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:37 pm

So far Allan says the visco fan not so lekker anymore, so he's going to install a new one. Also he has picked up there is no problem with compression or the head, so thats good news. there is a low power problem that he's going to check out, possibly something with the turbo. So far just sorting the cooling problem out and then going to investigate the power loss.
Will wait for him to give more feedback, but so far not looking too serious, I have faith he will get it all sorted.

Donkey · Post by **Donkey** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:52 am

Sun Chaser wrote:So far Allan says the visco fan not so lekker anymore, so he's going to install a new one. Also he has picked up there is no problem with compression or the head, so thats good news. there is a low power problem that he's going to check out, possibly something with the turbo. So far just sorting the cooling problem out and then going to investigate the power loss.
Will wait for him to give more feedback, but so far not looking too serious, I have faith he will get it all sorted.

Ian I'm happy you're making progress, but also keen on knowing how does one know for sure when the fan isn't working so lekka any more?

Thabogrobler · Post by **Thabogrobler** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:38 am

Time to replace with a proper electric fan - I'm tinkering with the idea - watch this space!

Mr_B · Post by **Mr_B** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:11 pm

Electric fan is not the best option. There are very good reasons those dik bril Japs fitted our 4x4's with a viscous fan!

Post by **Polarbear2008** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:28 pm

Visco fans is nogal a moeilike topic. Het jare terug met n Jeep Grand Cherokee navorsing gedoen en min ouens wil of sal jou n antwoord gee hieroor.

Basies werk dit so - op cold start moet jy vir n kort tydperk die fan hoor, en dan sal hy stadiger begin loop tot hy basies vryloop.

Wanneer die engine op werk tempratuur is en jy sleep byvoorbeeld teen n heuwel uit (sodat daar lod op die motor is) dan sal jy hom weer hoor begin raas - of as jy op n warm dag jou aircon aan het, sal jy dit ook hoor.

n Toets sal wees, vanaf cold start, laat die engine loop tot op werk tempratuur, dan gee jy hom bietjie diesel sodat die engine begin werk (so 2000 rpm). Na n rukkie hoort jy te sien (en voel!) as jy voor die oop bonnet staan, dat die windgeraas toeneem (soos die fan vinniger begin loop) totdat hy "lock" en dieselfde spoed draai as die engine.

Na n rukkie sal hy weer loskom en stadiger begin loop, tot basies vryloop.

Indien dit nie gebeur nie, is dit tyd vir n ander eenheid. Ek weet jy kan die olie koop (by Toyota) en die wat in die unit is vervang - maar n nuwe eenheid is seker maar die beste opsie - veral op die diesels!

Ek sal (persoonlik) vir verskeie redes NIE n elektriese fan fit nie - onder andere dat as n elektriese fout jou fan laat staan - dan staan jy! Veral as dit in die Richtersveld of NAM is!

Die ander rede is n viso "unlock" as jy deur diep water ry, wat n elektriese fan nie doen nie - hy waai die water orals in die engine ruim.

Soos ek se my 2c se opinie!

Donkey · Post by **Donkey** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:32 pm

Dit maak sin, dankie Thuenis

, ek het 328km's op my engine, ek dink dis nou tyd om die mannetjie vervang.

Post by **Polarbear2008** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:43 pm

Plesier man! Sal interessant wees om te sien wat se Toyota is die lewensduur van die visco!

Donkey · Post by **Donkey** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:48 pm

Sal vra by Gemini Parte hier in Jo'burg, miskien is dit goedkoper (spelling)

louis fourie · Post by **louis fourie** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:55 pm

Donkey wrote:Sal vra by Gemini Parte hier in Jo'burg, miskien is dit goedkoper (spelling)

Tumelo

I have a Gemini part that is lying in my garage - 2 months old. You can get it for a R1000. Problem is, it runs free in the morning with cold start and then never unlocks again until the next cold start. Even when your car stand in the sun it makes the fan lock. I then also had problems that it unlocks under load. Let's make it R800

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

Donkey · Post by **Donkey** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:59 pm

Louis, thanks. But I've just rebuilt my KZ's motor don't wanna take any chances with overheating issues.

louis fourie · Post by **louis fourie** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:20 pm

Donkey wrote:Louis, thanks. But I've just rebuilt my KZ's motor don't wanna take any chances with overheating issues.

I agree. Get the Aisin from Toyota

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Thabogrobler · Post by **Thabogrobler** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:07 pm

Mr_B wrote:Electric fan is not the best option. There are very good reasons those dik bril Japs fitted our 4x4's with a viscous fan!

Not anymore!

I've met a guy who imports stuff for Miltary vehicles and one product is an electric viscous fan that moves up to 8 times the volume of air that a viscous can!!!

Built for the military environment means it must be super tough and you do not loose kw's to drive the fan.

One of these days my truck(and his) will have one of those!!!

louis fourie · Post by **louis fourie** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:24 pm

Thabogrobler wrote:
Mr_B wrote:Electric fan is not the best option. There are very good reasons those dik bril Japs fitted our 4x4's with a viscous fan!
Not anymore!

I've met a guy who imports stuff for Miltary vehicles and one product is an electric viscous fan that moves up to 8 times the volume of air that a viscous can!!!

Built for the military environment means it must be super tough and you do not loose kw's to drive the fan.

One of these days my truck(and his) will have one of those!!!

Eish Thabo, nou gee jy al weer net die helfte van die inligting:lol:

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Sun Chaser · Post by **Sun Chaser** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:22 pm

ok, sorry for the late update. Alan had the bakkie at a diesel place near him, and they ended up rebuilding the diesel pump, and replacing the accelerator, as the variable resistor on the accelerator was only giving about 75% throttle. They said the injectors were fine, so never replaced them. Alan had also replaced the visco fan, front shocks, steering dampner and front ball joints.So all in all quite alot of work done, just under R18000.00.

I thought leka

it would be fine and when i fetched it, the bakkie pulled much better. Then came the trip to Misverstand with the boat behind. It definately felt like it had more power and was pulling better than before, but when hitting the big hills,although I didnt have to go down to 2nd gear , it was going ok in 3rd, the temp still climbed to 3/4 and at Malmesbury a little over 3/4. Then to my horror when I got to the dam, yislaik, the back of the bakkie and the front of the boat were both black with soot. I have never had the bakkie smoke or throw soot before, so needless to say I was not a happy camper when I spent an entire day on the Monday after a leka weekend camping to wash all the black soot off the bakkie and my once white boat with white boat cover.

Oh and the consumption was 5.2km/l Eish :wth:

So what now, I spoke to Allan and he said to bring it back as he thinks they set the pump too rich, but what abot the heating or lack of cooling, is that due to too rich a diesel mix or what.
I havent had the chance to take the bakkie back to Allan yet, will be going back next week to hopefully get it sorted.
Ouens at this point I am nearing wits end with this, as I never had any cooling problems before even when loading it on overland trips, (but with no trailer).
Hou duim vas, lets see what can be done.
I am seriuously considering traiding my faithfull KZTE (that took us on many a Namibia trip)in on a 4.2 TD VX Cruiser, which should tow without a problem????

Hoppy · Post by **Hoppy** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:38 pm

The KZ's are getting older, over 10 years on average, i drive two myself, so they are keeping us busy, there is a few things that we battle with, the one is heat issues, i have two other ones with similar problems, the one we sorted with the third new radiator, this time from Toyota at great expense, the other one will also be coming in shortly, i suspect a cracked cylinder head. The main reason we drive Toyotas is reliability, and i go through great lengths to keep them reliable, often at my own expence, but we learn from it and i like to share my findings on the Forum. It is a difficult decision to make, i will have to do the same at some stage, but they become part of the family and it's not an easy one to make.

Mars · Post by **Mars** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:54 pm

Too rich mixture will cause the temperature to rise.

Donkey · Post by **Donkey** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:47 pm

Ian other thing is check if you have a chip, cos that will have to be re-mapped after the pump is done, I found mine by accident, hope you come right

(assuming you're not left-handed

)

Hoppy · Post by **Hoppy** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:40 pm

Mars wrote:Too rich mixture will cause the temperature to rise.

this explaines the black smoke, will have it checked out, maybe a dyno will tell us more

Donkey wrote:Ian other thing is check if you have a chip, cos that will have to be re-mapped after the pump is done, I found mine by accident, hope you come right (assuming you're not left-handed )

Don,t think it has, but we will check

Sun Chaser · Post by **Sun Chaser** » Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:24 am

I'm pretty sure it dosn't have a chip. I'm hoping the problem lies with the over fueling, to be causing the smoke and overheating.

Sun Chaser · Post by **Sun Chaser** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:29 am

The Lux is back at Archman Diesel, the guys that did the fuel pump in January. The diagnosis is, they have checked the injector nozzles and say they are no good now, and in Jan they were fine. They also say that all the inlet valves are not seating completely and need to be reshimed. I spoke to the guy and asked about the diesel pump, being too rich, and he said it is an electronic pump and can't be set too rich. So the problem with the smoking is from the injector nozzles and the valve clearance being out.
I don't know how the valves can be out, if there hasn't been any work done on the valves. I can understand wear over 240 000kms, but that would mean they have been out for a long time, and the bakkie never smoked before they rebuilt the pump?
Anyway, hope they get it this time, as the costs are souring with sorting the overheating/underpower problem out.
The bakkie definately has more power, but still gets hot when towing and smokes alot.
Alan has a larger Prado radiator he is going to fit, which he says was the only solution to another bakkie he did a while ago with the same symptoms as mine, it was cool under normal driving, but overheated when towing and the extra sized radiator sorted it out.

Donkey · Post by **Donkey** » Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:38 am

Hope you come right Ian, nothing worse than a sick puppy

Sun Chaser · Post by **Sun Chaser** » Fri May 03, 2013 6:47 am

I'm happy to report that my Lux "Gem" is healthy again.

She has loads of power and the the smoking is also gone.
The last work that was done, replaced fuel injector nozzles, reshimmed the inlet valves and fitted a new larger radiator.
She is pulling very well, even up Malmesbury hill and went up Oukaapseweg on the way home from the dam, and managed it no problem. The temp gauge didn't move off half at any time.

So thanx to Allan and his perseverance in getting it sorted, another job well done.

Donkey · Post by **Donkey** » Mon May 06, 2013 8:24 am

Happy for you Ian.
Next I think also take out the baffle plate in the airbox, took mine out, and it breathes much better and pulls better also.

Mars · Post by **Mars** » Mon May 06, 2013 9:25 am

Lekker as dit uitgesort is!