4 y efi Taking in water

[offroad nut]

Hi all
Is it possible for a motor to take in water any other way except through the air intake .eg front crank seal of sump gasket when wading in water 550 mm deep
Thx Gary

[Tarquin]

no its impossible, only place water does damage is intake, onto electrics or if it goes into your fuel tank!
have you locked your engine with water in it?

[offroad nut]

Yep lots of water in motor but the water was not deep enough and did not go in the air filter as this was completly dry did not even get distributor wet

[Tarquin]

very strange, are there no cracks in air pipes after the air filter or loose clamps?

[offroad nut]

Nothing but just had LR fuel tank fitted

[Tarquin]

that won't let water into engine.
what part of the engine is there water? in cylinders or sump(oil compartment)

[offroad nut]

sump and cylinders

[offroad nut]

if you got a lot of water in the fuel tank what would happen

[Tarquin]

vehicle would just cut out. sounds more like a head gasket, is it using water

[Mud Dog]

If you had a hydraulic lock due to water ingress, it would have come in from the top, not from the bottom up. The presence of water in the sump oil after an hydraulic lock is common ... it seeps down / is forced down past the rings into the sump.

The reason for the water getting in? Definitely not fuel .... as said, the motor will just cut out. It has to be either via the air intake system, or it's coolant water (is the motor using water?). It could be that the sudden cooling from the crossing has resulted in a crack, either block or head, allowing coolant into the bores / inlet ports. Not a common occurance, but I wouldn't rule it out ... the 'tell' will be if your motor is using / has lost coolant water. Hope this is not the case.

[offroad nut]

The 4y has efi conversion ,water in radiator still full and in resivior

[zepplin]

How much water left in the dam/river?

[offroad nut]

[LouisZ]

This the most strangest thing I saw in a long time. When I reached Gary to help the wheels simply locked up when we tried to push start the bakkie. We went through to see if it was the diff, gearbox by a few steps and it lead to the engine. I checked the intake, no water to be found on the filter, intake pipes right through to the throttle body, no water, just a bit dust as normal on the air filter. Even so no water splashes onto or around the outside of the engine or any sign of water leakage.

So I towed him to my house. I started to check again, no water through the intake. I decided to drain the oil, and then water started to seep out 1st from the oil drain, I would say a cup or so. When the oil/water were drained I started to loosen the bolts of the sump cover. The 1st one came loose very easy. The next lot I tried something, I just use the socket and removed all but 3 bolts by hand.

Now like Gary asked, will water go in from the bottom. ie the loose sump? What came next was when the sump was removed no2 and no 3 small ends was totally misaligned(not in centre of the piston pin). While looking some water was dripping down too. Then I saw that the connecting rod on no 2 and 3 cylinders was bend. I loosen up the connecting cup bolts of 2 and 3 pistons and turned the engine for the 1 st time, more water was dripping from the engine.

That was a typical water damage, but from where? Trough the loose sump? The thing is, after I saw that I opened the radiator cap, it was Full aswell as the side bottle was on the level where it suppose to be.

[Mud Dog]

Hmmm ...... that's very strange, Louis. Firstly, no water on the outside of the engine doesn't really mean anything .... even if the motor was wet, the heat would have dried it off long before you got there. If it was only a cup of water in the engine oil, that's not a lot, at least not so much that it would make a big difference in the reservoir bottle ...... but if there was still water dripping down from above when you opened it up, there could be quite a bit more than a cup in total which one would see a lot easier by the level in the reservoir. It also means that the water came in from the top .... I seriously doubt that the water came in through the sump gasket, even if the bolts were loose.

The fact that there are bent con-rods means there was an hydraulic lock, which was most likely to be at the point of a start-up .... did Gary stall during the crossing or did he switch off and try start again after. If water came in while the motor was running, there would have to be a lot of water at one time to produce a lock, that is to say it would have had to come in through the inlet port in a substantial volume, but you say the air passages were dry. Were there no loose, dangling vacuum hoses that could have somehow sucked up water? If it were a cracked head / blown head gasket, it would have to be a big crack to allow that volume in on a single stroke .... unless maybe it somehow accumulated.

The 4Y is not a cross-flow motor so I don't think that there is a water jacket in the inlet manifold. Even if the inlet manifold was cracked, I don't think it could take in that much water from a low-level crossing where there would only be splashing water and no submergence. That would leave you with •the head - cracked between the ports (2 and 3 are together side by side IIRC), •or the block - cracked between 2 and 3. Only way to know is to open it up.

[offroad nut]

It cut out when I was about 500 mm deep in the water I then tried to start it would not start.Got out opened bonnet and checked plugs ,distrubuter and air filter not a drop of water,water level was below front bumper, have been through much deeper water before.never had a problem

[LouisZ]

I just looked again at this, no hoses loose, no where, all still tight. I took a 1lt sample of the petrol as well. No water at the bottom of the bottle. So that clears water in the tank that in any case would not cause this.

I think Gary mentioned as he went into the water the engine stalled completely and when he wanted to restart the starter just made that "half flat battery" click and did not turn.

If there was an crack in the inlet the engine would idle fast above 1500 and that wont change even if you turned the airscrew or set the Ecu it wont come down. The engine was idling at 900-950rpm. I once had it down to idling at 700rpm on a stage as I started to set idling after the Efi. Also the temp gauge was ok on the dash and nothing more than 90 degrees on the Ecu.

Only thing now like you say is to start to strip everything, I suspect an crack in the head/block between no 2 and 3 cylinder.

[offroad nut]

Thx for all the help Louis

[Mud Dog]

I just looked again at this, no hoses loose, no where, all still tight. I took a 1lt sample of the petrol as well. No water at the bottom of the bottle. So that clears water in the tank that in any case would not cause this.

I think Gary mentioned as he went into the water the engine stalled completely and when he wanted to restart the starter just made that "half flat battery" click and did not turn.

If there was an crack in the inlet the engine would idle fast above 1500 and that wont change even if you turned the airscrew or set the Ecu it wont come down. The engine was idling at 900-950rpm. I once had it down to idling at 700rpm on a stage as I started to set idling after the Efi. Also the temp gauge was ok on the dash and nothing more than 90 degrees on the Ecu.

Only thing now like you say is to start to strip everything, I suspect an crack in the head/block between no 2 and 3 cylinder.

This is true, but I was referring to this happening during the crossing, like from rapid uneven contraction due to water upwelling / splashing. Like I said, not likely, but not impossible, which is why I suggested it as a possibility to be eliminated before opening the motor.

Good luck!

[LouisZ]

No Cracks in the Intake. Found water in 1 to 4 cylinders, 2 and 3 the most. A bit of moisture in the lower intake manifold.

I could not trace any cracks last night in the block or the head. I think a Engineering Company will have to test for this.

Then 2 and 3 and 4 connecting rods bend. Worse one is no 2. Then 2 and 3 pistons one can see scuff marks on the 2 sides, ie maybe from the last forced engine rotation.

Post pictures tonight.

[ForYota]

die enigste ander plek wat ek kan dink is deur die exhaust, dit het met my gebeur, water getref teen n helling, m.a.w neus onder toe, toe ek wee wou start was als dood, gelukkig vir my het die immobilizer gegroet.. ek het sowat 6liter water gesluk daar en my intake was ook nog droog.. gelukkig geen engine skade gehad nie..

[ForYota]

Ps:

Kyk na die foto regs onder in my signature dan sal julle verstaan wat ek bedoel.. dit was die eindste

[Mud Dog]

die enigste ander plek wat ek kan dink is deur die exhaust, dit het met my gebeur, water getref teen n helling, m.a.w neus onder toe, toe ek wee wou start was als dood, gelukkig vir my het die immobilizer gegroet.. ek het sowat 6liter water gesluk daar en my intake was ook nog droog.. gelukkig geen engine skade gehad nie..

Hennie, ek verstaan goed hoe dit in jou geval gebeur het, maar om Gary te quote ..... "It cut out when I was about 500 mm deep in the water I then tried to start it would not start.Got out opened bonnet and checked plugs ,distrubuter and air filter not a drop of water,water level was below front bumper, have been through much deeper water before.never had a problem". In 'n halve meter water wat nog onder die voorste bumper was, is daar min moontlikheid dat dit in Gary se geval gebeur het. Verder, soos in jou geval, het die water by oop uitlaat kleppe ingekom .... as die enjin gedraai word is daai kleppe nog oop en die meeste water sal dan daar deur terug gedruk word. Daar moet seker 'n ander rede daarvoor wees, maar wat.

[LouisZ]

Here is the Connecting rods.

[The Legend]

Blacksam,n Mens kan nie glo dat n conrod so kan buig a.g.v water tussen die piston en die head nie.

[Mud Dog]

Janee Dawie, daar's baie krag en iets sal moet ingee.

Louis, is the crankshaft still OK, not twisted? .... Might be a good idea to have it checked out.

[LouisZ]

Andy the crank is twisted.

[Mud Dog]

Eina! (I think that's the first time I ever used the "Thumbsdown' icon on this forum )

Louis, I suspected as much ... bending one con-rod is bad enough but bending two! :shifty: So now one sits with the dilemma to completely rebuild the motor or replace it with another or an upgrade.

The 4y is an awesome motor for a 4x4 application and way underrated but genuine parts are becoming more difficult to source. Also the question arises what the condition of the old block is in ... are the bores still OK ... is it worth rebuilding? Maybe 1UZ is the way to go.

[LouisZ]

Engineering says after viewing the photos 90% chance of block to be stuffed up and valves in head also bended. If it is rebuilt it will be +/-R 8200.