Head gasket blown - Cost estimation to fix?

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JustinBr
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Head gasket blown - Cost estimation to fix?

Post by JustinBr »

Hi all

So I have noticed my radiator water is running out (no dripping though). So I took it to Silverton Radiators and they tested the compression as well as the blue liquid test (goes green if the gasket has a leak). It went green.

So, they reckon it will cost between R7000 and R10 000 to have it fixed.

I'm quite handy though, but I've never replaced a head gasket. Is it easy enough (if I follow my haynes manual)? Alternatively, what should I be paying if I have it fixed?

Thanks,
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Re: Head gasket blown - Cost estimation to fix?

Post by cprinsloo »

Hi Justin,

That's way too much. You can buy all the spares and tools you need, have the top repaired and skimmed (if not a cracked head), for very much less. Not difficult and shouldn't be expensive.

Cheers,

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Re: Head gasket blown - Cost estimation to fix?

Post by dd6 »

I second, that is a huge quote!! Do it yourself, not that difficult especially if you say you have a manual. BUT invest in or borrow a good torque wrench and stick to the torque specs. While the head is off, gasflow it, if not already done.
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Re: Head gasket blown - Cost estimation to fix?

Post by JustinBr »

Thanks. I think I will go the DIY route.

I saw this cool vid on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06l5jHMZt0Y" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Where do I take the head to be skimmed? I'm in the Centurion area, there must be some place close by.
Do I just search for a motor engineering company?

Thanks for the feedback.

Regards,
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Re: Head gasket blown - Cost estimation to fix?

Post by Mud Dog »

Do not just skim the head unless necessary - more often than not it just needs to be cleaned carefully. Clean off all the old gasket pieces and put a metal straight-edge on it to see if it's warped, if it is then it will need to be skimmed. When it's cleaned off, check for any bad pitting or corrosion, especially around the water galleries. Any decent automotive engineering shop can do the skim for you.
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Re: Head gasket blown - Cost estimation to fix?

Post by JustinBr »

Yes, I'm going to remove it first and check for any warping.

To purchase:
- Head gasket at Autozone Centurion R127
- Mounting bolts at Autozone Centurion R385
- Metal straight edge R?. Not expecting a lot
- Torque wrench R?. Probably R1000?
- Angle guage R? Probably R150-R300?

Centurion Motor Engineering will charge R320 for the skimming, same day.


Did I miss anything?

Again, thanks for the feedback. Much appreciated!
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Re: Head gasket blown - Cost estimation to fix?

Post by mcw »

Rather buy a head gasket set ,which includes all gaskets required to do this fix ,inlet outlet manifold .oil seals. valve stem seals
cheaper in the long run

Also phone Gemini Spares in JHB for price

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Re: Head gasket blown - Cost estimation to fix?

Post by Agteros »

I've been through this exercise a couple of years ago. I opened a thread somewhere on the forum which gave costs and the guy who did it for me (Monumentpark). Very good job at a fraction of the costs you were quoted.
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Re: Head gasket blown - Cost estimation to fix?

Post by Agteros »

I found the thread:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9510&start=30" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Replacement gasket, head skimmed, new valve lifters etc. R2840 at the time.
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Re: Head gasket blown - Cost estimation to fix?

Post by JustinBr »

Shucks, you can't perhaps locate the post? I've tried searching but not getting anything.
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Re: Head gasket blown - Cost estimation to fix?

Post by pietpetoors »

I don't know, if I take a head off I like to have it skimmed just to make sure it is 100? straight. Sometimes you miss something with the straight edge and then you have to repeat the exercise.

If you take the head off let them do everything while it is off, valve steam seals, valves, etc.

Do it properly and do it once.
With R10k you can rebuild the engine. The price they gave you is crazy.

The part you have to do is actually easy. You remove the head. Take head to engineering shop and ask them to recon it. Get head back from engineering shop and put it back on engine.
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Re: Head gasket blown - Cost estimation to fix?

Post by Mars »

I agree. It is not a very complicated procedure to remove the head. Particularly if you have a Haynes workshop manual. You can do it with the engine in place. Make sure you buy a good quality head gasket and seals such as Payen or Victor Reinz.

You have to have the head skimmed and if you are going to do it yourself it is a good idea to also make sure the valves are seating properly and replace the valve stem seals, which you should get with the top gasket set anyway. You can get the engineering shop skimming the head, to do all that for you. Make sure you take it to a reputable engineering shop. The most important issue is that you must torque the cylinder head in the correct sequence and torque stages as described in the workshop manual.

I'm really guessing here but the gasket set and the engineering should cost you under a R1000.

You also need to establish why the head gasket blew. It could be due to old age and corrosion or it could be due to the head warping as a result of overheating. While you have the coolant drained, take the radiator out (quick and easy job) and give it to Silverton to flush and check for leaks. Also replace the thermostat if you have not done it recently. Make sure that you fill it with a good quality anti-freeze/coolant as it also protects your engine against corrosion. Everything should come in under R2000-00.
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Re: Head gasket blown - Cost estimation to fix?

Post by Jacques T »

JustinBr wrote:Yes, I'm going to remove it first and check for any warping.

To purchase:
- Head gasket at Autozone Centurion R127
- Mounting bolts at Autozone Centurion R385
- Metal straight edge R?. Not expecting a lot
- Torque wrench R?. Probably R1000?
- Angle guage R? Probably R150-R300?

Centurion Motor Engineering will charge R320 for the skimming, same day.


Did I miss anything?

Again, thanks for the feedback. Much appreciated!

Try http://cme-auto.co.za/contact.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. They quoted me on fixing my head a few years ago, it was R500 less than a new head (Old one was pitted and cracked). I walked away with a new, prepared head and full head gasket set for just over R3000.
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Re: Head gasket blown - Cost estimation to fix?

Post by Jacques T »

Jacques T wrote:
JustinBr wrote:Yes, I'm going to remove it first and check for any warping.

To purchase:
- Head gasket at Autozone Centurion R127
- Mounting bolts at Autozone Centurion R385
- Metal straight edge R?. Not expecting a lot
- Torque wrench R?. Probably R1000?
- Angle guage R? Probably R150-R300?

Centurion Motor Engineering will charge R320 for the skimming, same day.


Did I miss anything?

Again, thanks for the feedback. Much appreciated!

CME is great. They quoted me on fixing my head a few years ago, it was R500 less than a new head (Old one was pitted and cracked). I walked away with a new, prepared head and full head gasket set for just over R3000.
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Re: Head gasket blown - Cost estimation to fix?

Post by The Legend »

I bought a brand new high quality after market complete 4y head( Rocker shaft ,springs and rockers included) for R1 605.00 inc. from Engine Den in Pretoria TEL 012 386 2786/7/8/9
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Re: Head gasket blown - Cost estimation to fix?

Post by dd6 »

A year ago a reputable engineering shop charged me about R1500 for work on a 22R head. They cleaned it, skimmed it and replaced some of the valve guides. I supplied the valvestem seals. Do not waste your time with a Autozone headgasket. Like the guys said, Victor Reinz or Payen. Sending in your radiator for a service is also a very good idea....
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Re: Head gasket blown - Cost estimation to fix?

Post by The Legend »

dd6 wrote:A year ago a reputable engineering shop charged me about R1500 for work on a 22R head. They cleaned it, skimmed it and replaced some of the valve guides. I supplied the valvestem seals. Do not waste your time with a Autozone headgasket. Like the guys said, Victor Reinz or Payen. Sending in your radiator for a service is also a very good idea....
I prefer the imported Toyota 4y head gasket.
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Re: Head gasket blown - Cost estimation to fix?

Post by Moonunit »

Hmmm just had my head redone and had to spend R7k on getting it sorted....took my Bakkie in and collected a week later. It is a 22R. If I had known all this I would've just bought a new head


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Re: Head gasket blown - Cost estimation to fix?

Post by JustinBr »

Jacques T wrote:
JustinBr wrote:Yes, I'm going to remove it first and check for any warping.

To purchase:
- Head gasket at Autozone Centurion R127
- Mounting bolts at Autozone Centurion R385
- Metal straight edge R?. Not expecting a lot
- Torque wrench R?. Probably R1000?
- Angle guage R? Probably R150-R300?

Centurion Motor Engineering will charge R320 for the skimming, same day.


Did I miss anything?

Again, thanks for the feedback. Much appreciated!

Try http://cme-auto.co.za/contact.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. They quoted me on fixing my head a few years ago, it was R500 less than a new head (Old one was pitted and cracked). I walked away with a new, prepared head and full head gasket set for just over R3000.
Did they remove and install it as well?
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Re: Head gasket blown - Cost estimation to fix?

Post by LouisZ »

Justin it is something you can do yourself. Just make sure with assembly that the valve pushrods are inserted correctly before you start the engine again.

Cost with parts and redo ing the head wont be more that R2000.
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Re: Head gasket blown - Cost estimation to fix?

Post by Mr_B »

I second Lollie's advise, get yourself the original imported Toyota 4Y headgasket. It's usually packaged in a cardboard sleeve and costs around R600.

The local Toyota gasket is just a repackaged/branded Payen gasket. The import gasket is much higher quality and will last much longer than the local one.



B
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Re: Head gasket blown - Cost estimation to fix?

Post by IndianaJones7746 »

Mars wrote:
You also need to establish why the head gasket blew. It could be due to old age and corrosion or it could be due to the head warping as a result of overheating. While you have the coolant drained, take the radiator out (quick and easy job) and give it to Silverton to flush and check for leaks. Also replace the thermostat if you have not done it recently. Make sure that you fill it with a good quality anti-freeze/coolant as it also protects your engine against corrosion.
+1 very important
A head gasket doesn't just blow, there has to be a cause.
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Re: Head gasket blown - Cost estimation to fix?

Post by Thabogrobler »

Centurion Motor Engineering has a good reputation.

Louis Zanoli from 4x4 Megaworld does this kind of repair in his spare time.
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Re: Head gasket blown - Cost estimation to fix?

Post by Baasvark »

Justin do it yourself.
I am quite an UNhandy fellow and with a little help from my friends I dit it myself.
So far so good.
Just make double sure about the skimming as I straight edged it myself and ended up repeating the whole process!!!
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Re: Head gasket blown - Cost estimation to fix?

Post by Mars »

IndianaJones7746 wrote:
Mars wrote:
You also need to establish why the head gasket blew. It could be due to old age and corrosion or it could be due to the head warping as a result of overheating. While you have the coolant drained, take the radiator out (quick and easy job) and give it to Silverton to flush and check for leaks. Also replace the thermostat if you have not done it recently. Make sure that you fill it with a good quality anti-freeze/coolant as it also protects your engine against corrosion.
+1 very important
A head gasket doesn't just blow, there has to be a cause.
It could also be the water pump that is not supplying enough coolant due to the impeller vanes corroding away. Perhaps you should also remove the water pump while you have the radiator out and the system drained and inspect it. The water pump is also not very expensive and if the old one is showing signs of wear or leakage then replace it now as you do not want to be re-doing the head gasket in a couple of months.
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Re: Head gasket blown - Cost estimation to fix?

Post by JustinBr »

So, received a quote from CME.

See attached.

A big portion of the cost is the service parts afterwards (although most not required I think).

What do you think?
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Re: Head gasket blown - Cost estimation to fix?

Post by JustinBr »

IndianaJones7746 wrote: +1 very important
A head gasket doesn't just blow, there has to be a cause.

About a year ago my radiator burst, causing the motor to overheat.

I fixed the radiator, but only recently noticed the water starting to drop.
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Re: Head gasket blown - Cost estimation to fix?

Post by pietpetoors »

Their prices look OK, if you do it yourself you save yourself R1850 plus VAT = R2109.00

On the other hand if they do it and something go wrong you can go back to them.

I will replace the oil and oil filter since there might be water in the oil. Only thing on there you do not need is the air filter, depending on when last it was serviced. Here on the platteland they do not do a ultrasonic test when they redo the head, but I guess it is safe to do to make sure their aint any cracks or something. Remove those two and it is another R665.00 deducted from the price.

If you remove those two items and if you do it yourself it can come down to R3733.00

But ask the experienced guys if they think the Ultrasonic test is a must or not.
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Re: Head gasket blown - Cost estimation to fix?

Post by Ryperd »

I recently did this, also starting from a very un-mechanical base. It turned into quite a saga (which you can read at viewtopic.php?f=3&t=35111" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; if you are interested), requiring much moral support from this forum, and a home visit by Louis from 4x4 Megaworld Pretoria (also on this foum). But it was well worth it not only to get the engine fixed, but I learned a lot about the mechanics in the process. Having an older vehicle, I'd like to know as much as possible so that if it dies in the bush, at least I'll know something about what could be wrong and how to fix it. There's also no better feeling than starting it again knowing you did it yourself.

As a caution though, take your time about it if you decide to do it yourself. I didn't know how to clean the block properly and ended up hoping it was "good enough". It was for a while, but I'll be doing the job again over the next couple of weekends. I just rechecked the radiator water and it tested positive for Carbon Monoxide again. At least this time I know what to do.

Some advice from my experience.

1) Get a good quality torque wrench. I suspect that my wrench may over-torque if it's at a difficult angle in the engine. You can't over-value confidence in your tools.
2) You will need a good set of sockets, with a variety of extensions. I spent much of my time going backwards and forwards to hardware shops to get bits and pieces I didn't know I needed.
3) Mark all the vacuum hoses using masking tape / tippex or something similar, and take photos so you know how to put them back again afterwards.
4) Clean all mating surfaces properly, using blade scrapers and/or sandpaper to get the gasket residue off. Don't waste your time with plastic scrapers. The head is aluminium so you should be more careful with that than you need to be on the engine. Test with a feeler gauge when you're done. Don't continue until it's spotless.
5) Give yourself enough time, and assume that you'll need to go to the hardware shop a few times in the process for unexpected things.

As I do it again I'll try to put together something of a howto which explains things from the perspective of an absolute beginner (like me).
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Re: Head gasket blown - Cost estimation to fix?

Post by JustinBr »

Hi Guys

Thanks for all the feedback. I agree that it would have been a great learning curve, however I'm currently swamped for time.

So I decided to take CME's offer.I also figure that with all the part replacements I get a service thrown in too.

They did call me on Friday saying there are some scrapes in the one cylinder which could/could have lead to a seizure. I will chat to them today.

Also, the gasket blew at the nr3 cylinder.

I will post updates as the journey unfolds.

Cheers
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Re: Head gasket blown - Cost estimation to fix?

Post by The Legend »

JustinBr wrote:Hi Guys

Thanks for all the feedback. I agree that it would have been a great learning curve, however I'm currently swamped for time.

So I decided to take CME's offer.I also figure that with all the part replacements I get a service thrown in too.

They did call me on Friday saying there are some scrapes in the one cylinder which could/could have lead to a seizure. I will chat to them today.

Also, the gasket blew at the nr3 cylinder.

I will post updates as the journey unfolds.

Cheers
Most of the time the head gasket on the 4y blew at nr 4 piston.The scrapes are they in nr 3 cylinder?
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