Replacing front wheel bearings (SFA with manual locking hubs)

Ryperd · Post by **Ryperd** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 8:14 pm

Ryperd gives a disconcerting rumbling noise when cornering at high speed (but not otherwise). As you would know, that doesn't happen often (the high speed part), and only on a downhill. But it's happening more now that it's been EFI'd by Louis (

). Louis suggested I check the wheel bearings by jacking the front wheels and looking for play by wiggling the top and bottom of the wheel. Sure enough there was some play there, so I guess the bearings need work.

I have a quote from Toyota for R2,650 for inner and outer bearings on both sides (parts 9036849084 and 9036845087). Is it worth just replacing all of them while I'm at it, or is it a better idea to check them first? Am I likely to need to replace seals or is there anything else I should plan for?

Finally, once a bearing starts to go, how long do I have before I risk it seizing up?

Baby Cruiser · Post by **Baby Cruiser** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:53 pm

Ryperd klink Afrikaans genoeg.
Jy sal seker nooit weet wanneer 'n bearing gaan gaan nie. Partykeer waarsku hy jou nie eers nie. As jy jou tie rod ends los maak en jou wielle van die grond af het behoort jy te kan voel of die knuckle bearings nie ook al sleg is nie. My ondervinding is dat hulle voor die wielbearings gaan. Dan is dit maar die beste om die hele voor as te doen.

Post by **Mud Dog** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 12:48 am

You will hear the wheel bearings if they are on the way out. If they are not noisy but just have some play, then all you have to do is to take up the play by nipping up the nut on the stub-axle, just enough to the point where you can feel that the wheel is starting to turn less freely.

Post by **CasKru** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:28 am

Mud Dog wrote:You will hear the wheel bearings if they are on the way out. If they are not noisy but just have some play, then all you have to do is to take up the play by nipping up the nut on the stub-axle, just enough to the point where you can feel that the wheel is starting to turn less freely.

Agreed. And should you still need to replace the bearings, I would say go the full monty and replace all the bearings and seals as while you are at it.

I bought a complete kit (wheel bearings, knuckle bearings and the seals and gaskets to service the knuckles front to back) from 4x4 Traction (descent quality bearings and seals) - http://www.4x4traction.co.za

Post by **Mud Dog** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:17 am

Yep, if you need to pull it apart, pull it apart totally and do it all in one go.

Cassie, if we may ask, what did the complete kit cost?

Ryperd · Post by **Ryperd** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:01 am

Mud Dog wrote:You will hear the wheel bearings if they are on the way out. If they are not noisy but just have some play, then all you have to do is to take up the play by nipping up the nut on the stub-axle, just enough to the point where you can feel that the wheel is starting to turn less freely.

Is this the right procedure for that? I'm not too keen to just use a screwdriver to tighten the nut, so what is the right size socket - 54mm?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4btK66WK5qY

Post by **CasKru** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:38 am

Mud Dog wrote:Yep, if you need to pull it apart, pull it apart totally and do it all in one go.

Cassie, if we may ask, what did the complete kit cost?

IT was something like R1200 or so but this was 3 years ago IIRC

Ryperd wrote:
Mud Dog wrote:You will hear the wheel bearings if they are on the way out. If they are not noisy but just have some play, then all you have to do is to take up the play by nipping up the nut on the stub-axle, just enough to the point where you can feel that the wheel is starting to turn less freely.
Is this the right procedure for that? I'm not too keen to just use a screwdriver to tighten the nut, so what is the right size socket - 54mm?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4btK66WK5qY

Check this article... all you need to know : http://www.hilux4x4.co.za/simon/overhau ... /index.php

Post by **Mud Dog** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:34 am

Thanks Cassie, that was a very reasonable price even if it was 3 years ago. IIRC the dealers asked that kind of money for just the seal kit alone.

Rudi, just go to your local hardware store and get a geyser element spanner (socket - should be somewhere in the region of R90). It works perfectly.

Post by **CasKru** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 12:38 pm

Mud Dog wrote:Thanks Cassie, that was a very reasonable price even if it was 3 years ago. IIRC the dealers asked that kind of money for just the seal kit alone.

Rudi, just go to your local hardware store and get a geyser element spanner (socket - should be somewhere in the region of R90). It works perfectly.

Agreed... I even made a quick adaptor for mine to be able to use my torque wrench

Post by **LouisZ** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 1:15 pm

Rudi I got a geyser socket that you can borrow if you want.

Ryperd · Post by **Ryperd** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:56 pm

LouisZ wrote:Rudi I got a geyser socket that you can borrow if you want.

Thanks Louis, I picked one up at the plumbing place on my way home. I figure it's a useful item to have in my toolkit for the road.

Ryperd · Post by **Ryperd** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:08 am

CasKru wrote: Agreed. And should you still need to replace the bearings, I would say go the full monty and replace all the bearings and seals as while you are at it.

I bought a complete kit (wheel bearings, knuckle bearings and the seals and gaskets to service the knuckles front to back) from 4x4 Traction (descent quality bearings and seals) - http://www.4x4traction.co.za

We're planning a trip to Zambia next year, so I figured it's better to do the work now rather than have the bearings fail in the Bangweulu Swamps. I ordered a set of front wheel bearings and a knuckle overhaul kit from 4x4traction (thanks Cassie!), and with overnight delivery it cost R2586, which is less than just the bearings would have cost at Toyota. This is what came with the kit:

I'm going to start working on it today, and will see how far I get over the weekend. I'm a bit worried about lining up oil seals and such, but hopefully it all goes well.

The Legend · Post by **The Legend** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 1:45 pm

Nothing to stress about.Very easy job just very messy.Make sure you have anough mutton cloth and news papers to catch up the oil and grease.

Ryperd · Post by **Ryperd** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:47 pm

We had guests drop by this afternoon so I couldn't get as far as I would have wanted, but still made some good progress. There are a couple of things that are worrying me, but it might just be nothing.

The image above shows the hub assembly after removing the locking hub on the left front wheel. Notice how the axle shaft is pulling to the rear of the vehicle? The locking hub did not come off easily, I had to really wiggle it loose and slowly rotate and pry it out little by little.

At this stage I've removed the freewheel hub, spindle and all that. I am left with the side axle which I'm trying to remove from the knuckle (I've cleaned it up a bit, but haven't taken an updated picture). My understanding is that I should be able to rotate the axle shaft until the flat bits line up, and then remove it from the knuckle. No matter how hard I try, I can't turn it. I don't think it should be necessary, but I've checked that it's not in gear, and I've also tried putting the 4wd gear into neutral. still no turn.

Is this a problem? Do I just need to spend more time in gym? Tomorrow morning I'm going to remove the swivel hub housing to see if that makes it any easier.

Ryperd · Post by **Ryperd** » Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:22 pm

I opened up the left side to see if it's any different, and there also the axle shaft is angling back. I don't have the mechanical knowledge to be able to diagnose this issue properly, but I'm suspecting that the front axle (or axle housing?) is bent. Would this also account for the side axle not turning, or is that something else (or have I missed something obvious)?

Knuppel · Post by **Knuppel** » Sun Nov 22, 2015 7:47 pm

I can see that something is not right looking at the pics but cannot see what the cause is.
Can you turn the front prop by hand?

Knuppel · Post by **Knuppel** » Sun Nov 22, 2015 7:50 pm

It may be the knuckle bearings that are kaput but you will need to strip completely to figure it out.

The Legend · Post by **The Legend** » Sun Nov 22, 2015 8:00 pm

Rudi,Ek mag verkeerd wees maar dit lyk of jou disc nie meer ver van die munimum specs is nie.Vervang dit sommer nou terwyl jy alles uitmekaar het.

Ryperd · Post by **Ryperd** » Sun Nov 22, 2015 9:25 pm

Knuppel wrote:Can you turn the front prop by hand?

Yes! Of course I should have thought of that

. Thanks for the suggestion. Now I should be able to line up the flat bits and can try pull out the axle shaft. If it comes easily then all should be well. Will see how it goes.

niclemaitre · Post by **niclemaitre** » Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:42 pm

I could be wrong but I think that there is a split ring that you have to break to get the side shaft free. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qevb7w9pUdk

Knuppel · Post by **Knuppel** » Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:01 pm

This I think is abetter video for the job, same guy doing the job
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3Y5bQGiezY

Post by **LouisZ** » Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:02 pm

It do not matter if its in gear, in 4x4 to remove the side shafts. All one have to do is to get the flat surfaces top and bottom and pull out. If it still don't come out is to loosen your top and bottom swivel bearing housings on the black housing(part with all the dirty grease), be sure to remove the backing plates 1st. If that's is off the side shafts will pull out quite easily.

Ryperd · Post by **Ryperd** » Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:50 pm

Knuppel wrote:This I think is abetter video for the job, same guy doing the job
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3Y5bQGiezY

There's also this one which doesn't give so much explanation, but gives all the steps:
https://youtu.be/_3CI4mmEv6A

LouisZ wrote:It do not matter if its in gear, in 4x4 to remove the side shafts. All one have to do is to get the flat surfaces top and bottom and pull out. If it still don't come out is to loosen your top and bottom swivel bearing housings on the black housing(part with all the dirty grease), be sure to remove the backing plates 1st. If that's is off the side shafts will pull out quite easily.

Thanks Louis. I just didn't think of turning the prop shaft to rotate the side shafts. I should be able to get them out now, but I might not be able to get to it until next week when things are a bit quieter. Nearly there!

Ryperd · Post by **Ryperd** » Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:21 am

I've got some time again this weekend to work on the front axle. I have taken off the knuckle housing leaving only the ball joint exposed with the side shaft sticking out. I have rotated the side axle so that the flat bits are aligned at the top and bottom. But still I can't pull out the side shafts. My understanding is that I shouldn't need much force at all to pull them out. My conclusion is that the front axle housing must be bent. Would that be correct? Anything else that would prevent them from pulling out?

Assuming the housing is a bit bent, how serious is it? My plan is to just clean everything up, replace the seals and bearings and put it all back together for now.

X-Dors · Post by **X-Dors** » Sat Dec 05, 2015 12:24 pm

niclemaitre wrote:I could be wrong but I think that there is a split ring that you have to break to get the side shaft free. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qevb7w9pUdk

I all so think there are a C Clip at the end off the shaft that holds your shaft in place inside the front diff

X-Dors · Post by **X-Dors** » Sat Dec 05, 2015 12:28 pm

http://repairguide.autozone.com/znetrgs ... 0611ff.gif

Ryperd · Post by **Ryperd** » Sat Dec 05, 2015 1:16 pm

X-Dors wrote:
niclemaitre wrote:I could be wrong but I think that there is a split ring that you have to break to get the side shaft free. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qevb7w9pUdk
I all so think there are a C Clip at the end off the shaft that holds your shaft in place inside the front diff

Thanks Kobus, Nic. I think the C clip is on the rear axle shaft if I'm not mistaken. It might be that there's something on the front shaft too, but I can't find any reference to it in the online videos or in the Heynes workshop manual, and I'm not keen to open up the front diff if I don't have to

.

Ryperd · Post by **Ryperd** » Sat Dec 05, 2015 1:28 pm

Ryperd wrote:
Knuppel wrote:This I think is abetter video for the job, same guy doing the job
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3Y5bQGiezY
There's also this one which doesn't give so much explanation, but gives all the steps:
https://youtu.be/_3CI4mmEv6A

Here's another video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gx3uTQAsrI

Baby Cruiser · Post by **Baby Cruiser** » Sat Dec 05, 2015 5:04 pm

Daar is niks wat die aste in die diff vashou nie. Hulle steek net op splines in en is veronderstel om net uit te trek.
As die aste uit is , is dit die moeite werd om gou jou diff uit te haal en net te kyk. As daar oor 10 000 km miskien iets met die diff vout gaan moet jy als wat jy nou doen weer oordoen om by hom te kom.
Hoe lyk al die parte so vêr. Hoop nie die geluid het van die diff se kant gekom nie.
Is dit local of inport.

Ryperd · Post by **Ryperd** » Sun Dec 06, 2015 12:33 pm

Baby Cruiser wrote:Daar is niks wat die aste in die diff vashou nie. Hulle steek net op splines in en is veronderstel om net uit te trek.
As die aste uit is , is dit die moeite werd om gou jou diff uit te haal en net te kyk. As daar oor 10 000 km miskien iets met die diff vout gaan moet jy als wat jy nou doen weer oordoen om by hom te kom.
Hoe lyk al die parte so vêr. Hoop nie die geluid het van die diff se kant gekom nie.
Is dit local of inport.

Die sy as kom glad nie uit nie. Die parte lyk redelik, maar die bearings moet definitief vervang word. Ons moet die bakkie gebruik oor 'n paar weke, so ek dink ek sal vir die oomblik nie die diff oopmaak nie. Dit het gevoel asof die geluid van die wiele se kant gekom het, maar ek kan nie heeltemal seker wees nie. As ek die bearings vervang en die geluid is nog daar, dan sal ons seker weet waar om volgende te kyk! Die bakkie is local.

Ryperd · Post by **Ryperd** » Sun Dec 06, 2015 12:40 pm

I'm keen to just replace what I can at the moment, and put it all back together. There was no diff oil mixed in with the grease of the wheel hubs, so the inner oil seal seems to be holding. At least now I know how to take it all apart, so if I need to open it up again it shouldn't be too big a deal, and then I can just take off the spindle and hub assembly as a unit, which will save some time.

The problem I have now is that without taking out the axle shaft, I can't remove the knuckle bearing races. The bearings definitely need replacement, but the races themselves look to be in good condition. I know it's generally not recommended to use a new bearing in an old race, but given the scenario, I don't really have much choice?

The Legend · Post by **The Legend** » Sun Dec 06, 2015 6:22 pm

Rudi,Iets pla my.Hoekom is die ronde gedeeelte op die punt van die as plat bo.Dit is veronderstel om dieselfde as onder te lyk.

Ryperd · Post by **Ryperd** » Sun Dec 06, 2015 8:10 pm

The Legend wrote:Rudi,Iets pla my.Hoekom is die ronde gedeeelte op die punt van die as plat bo.Dit is veronderstel om dieselfde as onder te lyk.

Ek dink dis net die angle van die foto, Dawie. Dit lyk wel dieselfde bo en onder. Ek sal more weer nog fotos afneem sodat jy lekker kan sien wat daar aangaan.

Ek het vroeer vir Louis gebel om sy raad te vra, en hy't besef dat daar 'n boerelocker of iets moet wees wat verhoed dat jy 'n sy as kan draai sonder om die propshaft ook te draai. Hy't 'n prybar gebring en ons kon die sy aste uitkry met net so bietje hefkrag in die regte plek. Nou is alles uitmekaar uit, en ek weet wat daar aangaan.

Volgende jaar as die tyd reg is sal ek 'n middel gedeelte van die diff soek en dan net die diff uithaal en laat regmaak. Nou moet ek net alles skoonmaak en weer bymekaar sit.

Baby Cruiser · Post by **Baby Cruiser** » Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:42 pm

As jy die bearing races vinnig teen hoe amps in die rondte om sweis , krimp hulle lekker los. Moet net nie jou as raak sweis nie.

Ryperd · Post by **Ryperd** » Mon Dec 14, 2015 8:36 pm

Nearly done with this. Took longer than I expected, but I learned a lot in the process.

My problem now is that when I put the brake caliper back (on the one side), it seizes against the rotor and I can't turn the hub at all. Preload is well within spec without the calliper (4kg). The rotor pushes too hard against the inner brake pad, which means that the wheel hub must be too far onto the stub axle (spindle). Anyone come across this before or have any thoughts what the problem might be? All I can think is that the inner wheel bearing must be out of spec somehow or incorrectly installed.

Ryperd · Post by **Ryperd** » Tue Dec 15, 2015 12:49 pm

Found the problem. It was actually a caliper bolt that was too long, so it pushed through onto the brake disc.

ChrisF · Post by **ChrisF** » Tue Dec 15, 2015 2:23 pm

Rudi WELL DONE !!!

Certainly must have been stresful at times. But you learnt a LOT - and thanks for sharing with us.

en nou gaan dit net makliker raak !!

Ryperd · Post by **Ryperd** » Tue Dec 15, 2015 8:04 pm

Thanks Chris! I'll add some photos when I get some time (to fill in the gaps in Simon's instructions).

One thing still bothers me - I took it for a relatively long drive, and the hubs got pretty hot. Not smoking hot, but too hot to hold for long. Is that something to be concerned about? Maybe I should try loosening the locking nuts a bit to take some pressure off the bearings?

The grinding noise is gone at least, so we did solve the original problem!

Knuppel · Post by **Knuppel** » Tue Dec 15, 2015 8:16 pm

Regarding the heat in the hubs, did you use the brakes while driving, that heats up the hubs plenty. Try going for a 15km drive or so where you dont need to use the brakes and then come to a leasurely halt and then check for heat buildup. After that make your decision. Just my suggestion.