D4D Injectors Query bit Puzzled

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D4D Injectors Query bit Puzzled

Post by BadboyGP »

Hi all,

So over the last couple weeks I have been noticing an injector knock when cold and about 30secs later the motor quietens down. There is a slight knock when warmed up but noting hectic.

Being the pedantic type I am, I bought a version of Techstream over bid or buy and decide to do a leak test. See picture attached, If I am interpreting correct I see #1 & #3 injectors out of spec! Test was done when warm, do I need to do one when cold.

Now the puzzling part is that I get close to 900km per tank, power is fine on the motor & no smoke what so ever!

Vehicle Specs
2008 D4D 4x2 DC Raider Mileage 211,000
I service myself every 10k and change all the filters including clean the water trap every service. Fill ups between 80/20 500ppm/50ppm


I was told to sleeve/calibrate the injectors to eliminate the knocking, he is a good buddy that works at a Toyota dealership and claim based on what I expalined they good for another 100,000km

I have not shared my injector leak test values with him however as I just did the diagnostics.


NB. anybody need help with coding or diagnostics I can help in midrand for free :celebrate:
Last edited by BadboyGP on Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: D4D Injectors Query bit Puzzled

Post by BadboyGP »

[img]//uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016041 ... c92dc5.jpg[/img]


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Re: D4D Injectors Query bit Puzzled

Post by Road Block »

:thumbup: Hi
I have just been through a similar thing !
For the last couple of months I have been hearing a noise that sounded like a knock ,which I thought was rocker settings and it has been up and own to different people and they set everything to no difference , I started to think I was crazy , and all of a sudden it started getting worse and had a huge drop In power !

After being told it was a number of things , by many different people and doing tests myself I went to find out what Mazda had to say ,and was told that the injectors do leak a little but not to worry as it will be ok till about 300000 kms.

I then found a crowd called JDL diesel , who asked to bring the Bakkie around and Shane came out listened to everything checked a few things checking my mileage said it best to have your injector tested every 100000 kms

I then booked the Bakkie in they really checked everything on the fuel system fixed the injectors set up the whole timing and fuel pressure settings , called me to fetch the Bakkie and said to me to test drive it and see what I thought and to please let them know .

Drove it to a huge improvement but still lacked a bit of power , Shane told me please bring it back so they could check the settings and make sure nothing was missed .

I did so and after a bit more tuning the Bakkie is running better then ever , best power I have ever had and the response from the engine is better then new .

so if you are unsure rather send it in as the resulting damage is not worth the risk
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Re: D4D Injectors Query bit Puzzled

Post by Mikie »

Where are these guys Hein?
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Re: D4D Injectors Query bit Puzzled

Post by Road Block »

They in jet park just of Kraft road on the n12 chaps name is Shane there number is 011 822 7890
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Re: D4D Injectors Query bit Puzzled

Post by Big Vic »

:thumbup: Iv heard of these guys and been planning on taking my Hilux past there thanks for the info.
What did you pay for the work done ?
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Re: D4D Injectors Query bit Puzzled

Post by Road Block »

Was around 3500 for the lot
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Re: D4D Injectors Query bit Puzzled

Post by BadboyGP »

Thanks will give them a try


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Re: D4D Injectors Query bit Puzzled

Post by BadboyGP »

Guys just gave Shane a call, very entertaining guy!

Bottom line, he says do not waste money unless its showing hard starting symptoms/smoking or underpowered.


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Re: D4D Injectors Query bit Puzzled

Post by Big Vic »

My list of symptoms
Battling to start in the morning
Noisy on warm up
Under powered
If i park on a hill with the nose in the downward position it really battles to start and once it does it chuckes loads of white smoke :shock2:
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Re: D4D Injectors Query bit Puzzled

Post by BadboyGP »

Those are signs of worn injectors and seats!


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Re: D4D Injectors Query bit Puzzled

Post by Mars »

BadboyGP wrote:Hi all,

So over the last couple weeks I have been noticing an injector knock when cold and about 30secs later the motor quietens down. There is a slight knock when warmed up but noting hectic.

Being the pedantic type I am, I bought a version of Techstream over bid or buy and decide to do a leak test. See picture attached, If I am interpreting correct I see #1 & #3 injectors out of spec! Test was done when warm, do I need to do one when cold.

Now the puzzling part is that I get close to 900km per tank, power is fine on the motor & no smoke what so ever!

Vehicle Specs
2008 D4D 4x2 DC Raider Mileage 211,000
I service myself every 10k and change all the filters including clean the water trap every service. Fill ups between 80/20 500ppm/50ppm


I was told to sleeve/calibrate the injectors to eliminate the knocking, he is a good buddy that works at a Toyota dealership and claim based on what I expalined they good for another 100,000km

I have not shared my injector leak test values with him however as I just did the diagnostics.


NB. anybody need help with coding or diagnostics I can help in midrand for free :celebrate:
Hi Dineshen. I recently did an injector test at Toyota and one injector was out of spec. The Worshop Manager told me to put Wynns injector cleaner in. I did that and it is definitely quieter. I also ordered a cable with Techstream to check myself but have been struggling to get it to work. What vesion of Techstream are you using? I got v10 with the cable and after editing the windows registry I managed to get it to talk to the ECU but now the D4D is not on there and I can't seem to find a method to add it. Thanks
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Re: D4D Injectors Query bit Puzzled

Post by BadboyGP »

Hi, I have v10.10, initially struggled to get it to work. Which area you in?


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Re: D4D Injectors Query bit Puzzled

Post by Mars »

I am in Pretoria East. I also managed to get it to work but when I select Hi-lux the D4D is not there.
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D4D Injectors Query bit Puzzled

Post by Jaws »

Mars wrote:
BadboyGP wrote:Hi all,

So over the last couple weeks I have been noticing an injector knock when cold and about 30secs later the motor quietens down. There is a slight knock when warmed up but noting hectic.

Being the pedantic type I am, I bought a version of Techstream over bid or buy and decide to do a leak test. See picture attached, If I am interpreting correct I see #1 & #3 injectors out of spec! Test was done when warm, do I need to do one when cold.

Now the puzzling part is that I get close to 900km per tank, power is fine on the motor & no smoke what so ever!

Vehicle Specs
2008 D4D 4x2 DC Raider Mileage 211,000
I service myself every 10k and change all the filters including clean the water trap every service. Fill ups between 80/20 500ppm/50ppm


I was told to sleeve/calibrate the injectors to eliminate the knocking, he is a good buddy that works at a Toyota dealership and claim based on what I expalined they good for another 100,000km

I have not shared my injector leak test values with him however as I just did the diagnostics.


NB. anybody need help with coding or diagnostics I can help in midrand for free :celebrate:
Hi Dineshen. I recently did an injector test at Toyota and one injector was out of spec. The Worshop Manager told me to put Wynns injector cleaner in. I did that and it is definitely quieter. I also ordered a cable with Techstream to check myself but have been struggling to get it to work. What vesion of Techstream are you using? I got v10 with the cable and after editing the windows registry I managed to get it to talk to the ECU but now the D4D is not on there and I can't seem to find a method to add it. Thanks
You must change the region to Europe from USA there is no D4d in the USA tech stream setup
:thumbup:
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Re: D4D Injectors Query bit Puzzled

Post by Scott »

A few years ago my father in law bought a 2.5 mazda(wl) and it was heavy on fuel and lacked power(bought brand new under 30k on the clock) so they got stories from the dealer they bought it from and where told by someone take it to another dealer and a completely different motor(happy) so it goes to show sometimes it is good to get a different opinion,
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Re: D4D Injectors Query bit Puzzled

Post by Thabogrobler »

Could you guys with the Techstream please check if you can run the diagnostic on a Freelander 2 Td4, 2007 upwards?
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Re: D4D Injectors Query bit Puzzled

Post by Mars »

Thanks Herman. I will check what region its set to.
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Re: D4D Injectors Query bit Puzzled

Post by BadboyGP »

Jaws wrote:
Mars wrote:
BadboyGP wrote:Hi all,

So over the last couple weeks I have been noticing an injector knock when cold and about 30secs later the motor quietens down. There is a slight knock when warmed up but noting hectic.

Being the pedantic type I am, I bought a version of Techstream over bid or buy and decide to do a leak test. See picture attached, If I am interpreting correct I see #1 & #3 injectors out of spec! Test was done when warm, do I need to do one when cold.

Now the puzzling part is that I get close to 900km per tank, power is fine on the motor & no smoke what so ever!

Vehicle Specs
2008 D4D 4x2 DC Raider Mileage 211,000
I service myself every 10k and change all the filters including clean the water trap every service. Fill ups between 80/20 500ppm/50ppm


I was told to sleeve/calibrate the injectors to eliminate the knocking, he is a good buddy that works at a Toyota dealership and claim based on what I expalined they good for another 100,000km

I have not shared my injector leak test values with him however as I just did the diagnostics.


NB. anybody need help with coding or diagnostics I can help in midrand for free :celebrate:
Hi Dineshen. I recently did an injector test at Toyota and one injector was out of spec. The Worshop Manager told me to put Wynns injector cleaner in. I did that and it is definitely quieter. I also ordered a cable with Techstream to check myself but have been struggling to get it to work. What vesion of Techstream are you using? I got v10 with the cable and after editing the windows registry I managed to get it to talk to the ECU but now the D4D is not on there and I can't seem to find a method to add it. Thanks
You must change the region to Europe from USA there is no D4d in the USA tech stream setup

Yes indeed you are correct sir!
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Re: D4D Injectors Query bit Puzzled

Post by BadboyGP »

Thabogrobler wrote:Could you guys with the Techstream please check if you can run the diagnostic on a Freelander 2 Td4, 2007 upwards?
Sorry Techstream only works on Toyota and Lexus.

Let me check if my Delphi can do landrover
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Re: D4D Injectors Query bit Puzzled

Post by Thabogrobler »

Standing by...
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Re: D4D Injectors Query bit Puzzled

Post by BadboyGP »

Will check over the weekend mate


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Re: D4D Injectors Query bit Puzzled

Post by Mars »

Thank you Herman and Dineshen. I was sure that I had initially set the country but when I checked it was set to USA. I changed the setting and Techstream now works. My happiness was short lived as the reading on the fourth injector has sadly deteriorated even more since checking it at Toyota. So this is where another saga starts for me to try and sort it out. a Leaking injector can cause a hole to be burnt in the piston so I would like to sort it out as quickly as possible.

Could you find out anything regarding the injectors Dineshen?
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Re: D4D Injectors Query bit Puzzled

Post by BadboyGP »

Hi there, not have not had a chance.

I was told by Toyota guy to leave it if its not smoking!

I have come to live with the clatter on startup, just turn the radio up..lol


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Re: D4D Injectors Query bit Puzzled

Post by dalkill »

I took the bakkie to Toyota yesterday. It was also making a hellova racket when cold as soon as you go over 1400rpm.
When warmed up its silent. Just when cold, especially now in winter, it sound like the entire engine going to come apart at the seams. I drive it like Miss Daisy when it cold.

R826 later , Test came back OK. All injectors within spec.

Eish but that knock when cold. Scary stuff.

Workshop manager also mentioned that it's only when chipped do these motors run risk of burning holes in pistons. Not sure how much truth in that
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Re: D4D Injectors Query bit Puzzled

Post by lukestoyzx »

Not true! Any decent toyota tech will do a camera inspection of the pistons while they have the injectors out to look for cracks and holes cos its very common if the the injectors are left too long, chip or no chip! Who do you guys over there use for new injectors? We have an excellent place here in aus and they offer a better warranty than toyota!

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Re: D4D Injectors Query bit Puzzled

Post by ChrisF »

lukestoyzx wrote:Not true! Any decent toyota tech will do a camera inspection of the pistons while they have the injectors out to look for cracks and holes cos its very common if the the injectors are left too long, chip or no chip! Who do you guys over there use for new injectors? We have an excellent place here in aus and they offer a better warranty than toyota!

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Re: D4D Injectors Query bit Puzzled

Post by Die$eL »

dalkill wrote:I took the bakkie to Toyota yesterday. It was also making a hellova racket when cold as soon as you go over 1400rpm.
When warmed up its silent. Just when cold, especially now in winter, it sound like the entire engine going to come apart at the seams. I drive it like Miss Daisy when it cold.

R826 later , Test came back OK. All injectors within spec.

Eish but that knock when cold. Scary stuff.

Workshop manager also mentioned that it's only when chipped do these motors run risk of burning holes in pistons. Not sure how much truth in that
Mine is also "clackety" when cold and fine when warmed.

I had the injectors cleaned a little while back. Made no difference with that sound. Haven't tested the injectors though. I dont have a chip.
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Re: D4D Injectors Query bit Puzzled

Post by Mars »

I was simply not prepared to take a chance. Whilst only one was out of spec. I decided to replace all of them. The problem with a leaking injector (which is actually the only parameter you can check with techstream) is that you are going to end up burning holes in the piston regardless of the manufacturer. I cannot see how the techie can say that it won't happen. A leaking injector is introducing extra fuel into the cylinder causing combustion temperatures to climb dramatically. And because it is leaking the diesel is not atomised properly concentrating more fuel on one spot in the cylinder which becomes much hotter than the rest of the piston crown during combustion. I got my injectors from Northern Diesel and paid about R14 500-00 for the set. I did the labour myself. I also fitted an additional 2 micron diesel filter inline after the original one.
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Re: D4D Injectors Query bit Puzzled

Post by lukestoyzx »

Hope you guys r keeping an eye on ya injector seats too! Should be replaced every 40k. A leaking seat can give you false feedback values and is causing huge problems in these engines!

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Re: D4D Injectors Query bit Puzzled

Post by Alex2539 »

Interesting discussions. What can one do to ensure an extended use of injectors ? and do the injector cleaners really work?
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Re: D4D Injectors Query bit Puzzled

Post by lukestoyzx »

Use quality fuel, quality filters(replaced every 10k) install a second filter with water trap, get your feedback checked every service to catch any problems early and some guys including myself like to run a bit of 2stroke oil in the fuel as it helps lube the injectors a litte more and helps the rattles. From my experience most injector cleaners aren't worth the plastic they come in, not all but most. Toyota actually do a pretty good one.

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Re: D4D Injectors Query bit Puzzled

Post by Alex2539 »

lukestoyzx wrote:Use quality fuel, quality filters(replaced every 10k) install a second filter with water trap, get your feedback checked every service to catch any problems early and some guys including myself like to run a bit of 2stroke oil in the fuel as it helps lube the injectors a litte more and helps the rattles. From my experience most injector cleaners aren't worth the plastic they come in, not all but most. Toyota actually do a pretty good one.

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Re: D4D Injectors Query bit Puzzled

Post by Knuppel »

We have a Hilux d4d 2.5 as a workshop vehicle. 518000 km before the first injector failed. All on standard filters and no cleaners.
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Re: D4D Injectors Query bit Puzzled

Post by Mars »

lukestoyzx wrote:Hope you guys r keeping an eye on ya injector seats too! Should be replaced every 40k. A leaking seat can give you false feedback values and is causing huge problems in these engines!

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What are you referring to when you say injector seats? The area in the cylinder head where brass or aluminium washers seal on the shoulder of the injector?
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Re: D4D Injectors Query bit Puzzled

Post by lukestoyzx »

Yep those exact ones! If those washers aren't replaced and the seats cleaned periodically they can leak. This allows compression gasses passed and into the rocker cover burning the oil, this burnt oil forms chunks of carbon which make thier way to the sump and begin to block up the oil pick-up screen. Very bad news!!! There r a couple of ways to diagnose a problem, if you park the car nose downhill overnight and it blows smoke in the morning it's caused from oil leaking down past the injectors overnight and getting burnt in the cylinder first thing. The second, each time you do an oil change let the oil drain a good while then grab a torch and have a look up the sump plug hole. Up there you'll be able to see the pick-up screen, if it's nice and shiny and clean then you golden but if it's got any chunks of horrible black crap on it then you've got issues and best get it checked b4 ya rite off your engine!

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Mars
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LR4WD, Lockers, Crawler Gears
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Re: D4D Injectors Query bit Puzzled

Post by Mars »

If the injectors are torqued down to spec with new washers (as when they are fitted at the factory) there is no reason for those seats to be damaged. After 280 000 ks the seats on my D4D were still pristine. When I replaced the injectors I used a seat cutter and very lightly cleaned the mating surfaces to make absolutely sure there is not carbon deposits there but it was really unnecessary as the seats were nice and shiny. If those washers are leaking to the extent that oil runs in there causing smoking in the mornings then it would be much easier to diagnose doing a compression test as you would be losing compression on the leaking injector. Also what happens if dirt becomes trapped between the seal and the injector seat causing a leak then the flame penetrating into that area would cause the injector tip to burn away very quickly, necessitating a replacement of the injector.

When you fit the injectors one must make sure that the seals on the injector leakage pipe are replaced every time (five sets consisting of two washers joined by a link at R500 a set) and actually one needs to do a system leak test after installing the injectors to make sure those seals aren't leaking as it would result in the diesel leaking into the cylinder head and end up in the sump thinning the oil. This requires specialised equipment.

Personally I would never mess around with the injectors every 40 000 ks. If the injectors are installed and they are not leaking you are only going to be looking for trouble messing around there every 40 000 ks. Also I have not seen a single service recommendation where that should be done. This means that every 40 000 ks one needs to remove the intercooler, remove the injector pipes, remove the tappet cover, remove the injector leakage return rail which is connected by banjo connectors to the injectors and the cylinder head, remove the injectors and clean the seats and then reinstall everything. Every time there is risk of dirt entering the pipes after the filter which could block or seriously damage an injector and the risk of diesel leaking into the cylinder head as stated above. You would need to make sure that you tighten those bolts to the exact torque specs every time because those hollow bolts that fit into the banjo connectors are very easy to damage if you over tighten them.

No I am sorry but I simply cannot agree with you on this one.
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Knuppel
LR 4WD Full Lockers
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Re: D4D Injectors Query bit Puzzled

Post by Knuppel »

+1

Like I said before, 518k km and not removed once until the injector failed.
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lukestoyzx
Low Range 4WD
Low Range 4WD
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Re: D4D Injectors Query bit Puzzled

Post by lukestoyzx »

Well I'm just telling yas whats happening here in aus. Toyota had a warranty recall for thousands of ute to get there injector seat washers replaced with revised ones. If any of the injectors showed signs of blowby the pick-up screen was then inspected and if it had any carbon in it the the sump would be removed to clean it all out. Most of the early 3.0l d4d didn't leak and most of the newer ones don't but there was a stretch from late 06 to mid 08 I think that had to get done. Was a huge issue here! They now recommend changing the washer every 40k when doin a valve clearance inspection.

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Mars
LR4WD, Lockers, Crawler Gears
LR4WD, Lockers, Crawler Gears
Posts: 1484
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Vehicle: Toyota Hilux Dakar 2.8 GD-6 DC 4X4
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Re: D4D Injectors Query bit Puzzled

Post by Mars »

Its always good to know if there is a potential issue and also how to be able to pick up on it quickly but I can honestly say that I am not aware of similar issues here. There were issues with injectors themselves in some instances. I did not get my replacement Original Denso injectors from Toyota but from a very reputable Diesel Workshop locally. It was interesting to note that the seals were replaced with aluminium washers where they were copper before.

We also need to remember that Toyota makes use of local suppliers wherever they assemble engines and so on. So it is possible that they had an issue with the injector seals, wherever they sourced the ones, for the engines used in Aus. They definitely sourced clutches here in South Africa from a local and if I may add very well known and reputable manufacturer and we have had issues here with clutches that I have not really heard from in other countries.
lukestoyzx
Low Range 4WD
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Re: D4D Injectors Query bit Puzzled

Post by lukestoyzx »

Yeah don't worry, we have had out share of clutch, injector, scv issues. The new ones r now having I believe software issues resulting in a lean mixture when the stupid dpf does a burn. Also having a lot of tailshaft problems. What about catch cans and restricting the egr!?

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Frontier 320
High Range 4WD
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Re: D4D Injectors Query bit Puzzled

Post by Frontier 320 »

If I'm not mistaken Toyota's tolerance on the D4D injectors are +3.5 TO -3.5. So if they pick this up on the test you will more than likely have a warranty claim as anything over that will be falty by Toyota.

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Frontier 320
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Re: D4D Injectors Query bit Puzzled

Post by Frontier 320 »

This was mine at 135k km 3.0 D4D
Screenshot_2016-08-15-12-00-28.png
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